Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Are we still evolving?
Prospect (UK) ^ | July, 2004 | Gabrielle Walker

Posted on 07/10/2004 7:06:11 AM PDT by jalisco555

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 last
To: orionblamblam

if you don't understand the difference between chemical equilibrium and metabolism, there is no use chatting.


101 posted on 07/11/2004 8:28:17 PM PDT by metacognative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555
Can culture drive evolution?

Are we still evolving?

Hmmmmmmmn.

Ask the cultures that have grown and died over time: Every one of them has weakened and been killed by outside (lower "class") invaders over time.

And we (the US) are merely the latest.
102 posted on 07/11/2004 8:31:47 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly ... But Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS press corpse lies every day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: metacognative

> if you don't understand the difference between chemical equilibrium and metabolism...

... I probably would have said something clearly wrong like: Things do not build up by chance, They run down...period!"


103 posted on 07/11/2004 11:42:00 PM PDT by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

heh


104 posted on 07/11/2004 11:43:20 PM PDT by cyborg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: bondserv

> Evolutionary Clearasil needed!

What... you're recognizing that evolution, like pimples, does exist... you just want something to make it go away? Well, best of luck with that...


105 posted on 07/11/2004 11:52:44 PM PDT by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Dimensio

> An utterly dishonest tactic, but what can you expect from them?

Desperation. If an evolutionist, or a scientist of *any* stripe, finds an indisputable error in a theory or data record, they can adjust accordingly to fit the new data, or scrap the theory and try something else. Heck, there's nothign scientists love more than a serious and *real* flaw... gives 'em somethign new to explore.

If a Creationist finds an indisputable flaw in their notions... then that means that the whole nature of the universe, God, life, death and morality come crashing down on them.

You can thus understand why they might be a tad twitchy...


106 posted on 07/11/2004 11:59:08 PM PDT by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: metacognative

What effect has modern transportation had on genetic diversity? While geographic proximity is still the dominant factor in determining mating pairs the increased mobility of humans has to have increased the variety of dominant and recessive genes geographically. Barring xenophobia won't there eventually be globally dominant genes that become prerequisites for survival and procreation?


107 posted on 07/12/2004 12:11:19 AM PDT by Poodlebrain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
There are over 600 known inherited genetic diseases. There is only one known positive mutation, and it's not clear yet whether or not it has negative side effects.

Positive mutations tend to get ignored. If someone is 10% smarter or stronger than the general population due to a mutation, how would we notice that the mutation existed? Furthermore, positive mutations eventually become the norm in a population, so they eventually become the status quo.

However, a negative mutation is easily identifiable because of the unfortunate effects of such a mutation.

108 posted on 07/12/2004 6:38:03 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
The effect of wars in the 20th century was probably to make the population less fit. This was because the physically fit males were more likely to be killed in the war before they could reproduce, (since they were drafted first), whereas those with genetic disorders, physical and mental disabilities etc, were not drafted and so were never in harm's way.

Before WWI, French men were statistically the tallest in Europe. Shorter, less healthy men were the last to be drafted and therefore less likely to die. That's probably why Frenchmen are so short and mousy these days.

109 posted on 07/12/2004 6:43:03 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: jennyp
If a human generation is 20 years, then for a human population to be genetically isolated for 50 generations that would take 1,000 years! I don't think that any group of Homo sapiens were ever isolated from their neighbors for that long

How about Australian aborigines or American natives?

110 posted on 07/12/2004 6:45:14 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

My brain is growing and pushing the hair right out the top.


111 posted on 07/12/2004 6:48:57 AM PDT by bmwcyle (<a href="http://www.johnkerry.com/" target="_blank">miserable failure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bmwcyle
My brain is growing and pushing the hair right out the top.

Yeah, that's what happened to me, too.

112 posted on 07/12/2004 7:10:00 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." W. B. Yeats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: Modernman

I agree that positive mutations might be hard to spot.

But it's not at all clear that there have been any. There have been advances in nutrition and healthcare, that have enabled us to live longer than people did a century ago, but 120 years as an approximate age limit was written in the Bible 3500 years ago. If anything we still seem to be living shorter lives.

There have been advances in human knowledge, but as far as true intellectual capacity, it doesn't appear that man has evolved in some time.

The changes that we do have, such as the shortening of the jaw resulting in wisdom teeth, do not appear to be a positive, but rather a negative health impact that must be overcome with modern medicine.

The likelihood that a random mutation actually improves functionality is incredibly small. Most mutations are harmeful. It still looks like man is de-evolving. And that the negative genetic mutation load vastly outweights the positive.



113 posted on 07/12/2004 1:18:11 PM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
The likelihood that a random mutation actually improves functionality is incredibly small. Most mutations are harmeful. It still looks like man is de-evolving. And that the negative genetic mutation load vastly outweights the positive.

But the "negative genetic mutation load" does not increase if the people who get the negative mutations die off or have fewer kids! That's the beauty of natural selection: It ratchets the species as a whole towards fitness, even in the face of an overwhelming majority of negative mutations.


114 posted on 07/12/2004 3:50:52 PM PDT by jennyp (Edwards & Kerry: Liberal & Liberaler)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: Modernman
How about Australian aborigines or American natives?

As I understand it, aborigines had some contact with Polynesians. I don't know if American native eskimos had any contact with Russian eskimos, but there surely was some gene flow traveling up & down the Americas.

115 posted on 07/12/2004 3:52:52 PM PDT by jennyp (Edwards & Kerry: Liberal & Liberaler)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: jennyp
"But the "negative genetic mutation load" does not increase if the people who get the negative mutations die off or have fewer kids!"

Yes, but the over 600 inherited genetic diseases have already passed the second phase. So there is a huge negative load that has avoided dying off and is being passed down in the gene pool.

So it's not clear at all that natural selection is even preserving the gene pool. It looks like a slow degradation of the gene pool. It's also by no means certain that even if there was more pressure on the human race, so that natural selection could work better, that the gene pool would be preserved.

Natural selection will kill off the weakest members, but it looks like enough of the negative load gets transmitted from one generation to the next, that Natural Selection is still fighting a losing battle.

116 posted on 07/12/2004 4:04:29 PM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

> There have been advances in nutrition and healthcare, that have enabled us to live longer than people did a century ago, but 120 years as an approximate age limit was written in the Bible 3500 years ago. If anything we still seem to be living shorter lives.

Incorrect. While there have always been those idividuals who have lived quite a long time, those who are remembered were those who had the ability to lead healthier lives... more expensive food and medical care, less or no back-breaking labor, so on. What's going on now is that there still seems to be an age limit, but more people are bumping up against it due to improved health in general.

3500 years ago, your average schmoe would be damend lucky to make it to 35 or 40, much less 120. Claims of ages measured in multiple centuries are unsubstantiated and basically silly.

> There have been advances in human knowledge, but as far as true intellectual capacity, it doesn't appear that man has evolved in some time.

History is much less than 10,000 years old. That is not enough time for notable evolutionary progress to be made here.

> The likelihood that a random mutation actually improves functionality is incredibly small.

Yes, it is. That much is agreed upon by all. But an improvement-mutation is still a damned nice thing to have. Do a FR search for the super-baby born in, IIRC, Europe. A mutation has made a toddler who looks to be a massive power lifter... muscle development without the actual effort of workign out. If the kid decides to be a power lifter or a construction worker, then that mutation is a positive. If he decides to be a ballet dancer... well...


117 posted on 07/12/2004 6:44:11 PM PDT by orionblamblam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: Dimensio
I still don't have any desire to engage in activity that puts me at high risk for contracting HIV.

Unfortunately, some are not allowed the luxury of choice.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/aids-virgins.htm
http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/reliefresources/107036097535.htm?_lite_=1&via=lnav

118 posted on 07/13/2004 10:25:12 AM PDT by Condorman (Changes aren't permanent, but change is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson