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ISLAM'S CHOICE: CONVERT, BE ENSLAVED, OR DIE
20 June 2004 | Prof. Moshe Sharon

Posted on 07/11/2004 9:03:13 AM PDT by dave_behrens

I found this great article on Islam on another discussion forum. It explains Islam better than anything I have read. It is a little long, but comprehensive in it's explanation. I've added some simple HTML formatting to make it seem less ponderous.


Title: The Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations , Author: Professor Moshe Sharon Source: Betar , Published: Sun Jun 20 13:03:03 CDT 2004 Posted: Sun Jun 20 13:03:03 CDT 2004by jpsb


The war has started a long time ago between two civilizations - between the civilization based on the Bible and between the civilization based on the Koran. And this must be clear.

There is no fundamental Islam.

"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.

All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.

The Language of Islam

You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact, the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the west, we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use for one culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to use the language of Islam.

Driving Principles of Islam

Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God. But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a Moslem.

But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.

The Bible

Let me explain the difference. The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two ways.

In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.

The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to time, meet each other.

But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of salvation.

Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important. This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals.

The Essence of Islam

Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it should rule the world.

Let's look, then, at the difference between these three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sings, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions."

The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of Islam. When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years - 640 - the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are humiliated to this very day.

Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because all the heroes of history were Moslems.

Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel - namely the New Testament.

The Bible vs. the Koran

Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran?

Mohammed explains that the Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely destroyed by war [for now].

Nevertheless, the laws a very clear - Jews and Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for them.

Islamic Rule and Jihad

What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not in the Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians.

A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia were no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.

Two Houses

The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has come under Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and the other part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the "house of non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which as to be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house of war until it comes under Islamic rule. This is the norm. Why? Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.

Islamic Law

Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law.

However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the Islamic world, countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws. The strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war.

There are various perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war. These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict, and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers. Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed.

Islam and Territory

This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic. This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created. Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because - and this is very important - this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.

Islam and Peace

Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be between Moslem and Moslem.

With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be only one solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins. The two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which, incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.

Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't believe that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and civilization.

A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.

Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years. Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].

In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war and peace in Islamic terms.

Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice

What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy is too strong. It is a tactical choice.

Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most humiliating conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg. When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of politics."

Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing - we haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt about that.

Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, the deterrent power.

Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War

The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you have Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization.

What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's happening between Pakistan and India?

Islamic Infiltration

Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by infiltration. One of the things which the western world is not paying enough attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the U.S.

End of Days

It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days. In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.

Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision.

I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.

Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians.

The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.

Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?

The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war?

The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet.

But for Islam, the establishment of the state of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own independent state. It is anathema.

And (this is the worse) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems.

I believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization. It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual Christians who see this as the road to salvation.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: balkans; bible; campaignfinance; christian; christianity; islam; jihad; koran; muslim; quran; religion; religionofpeace; terror; terrorist; war
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
You have not heard the chortling glee of the Serb killers. I have

YU heard the Serbs chortling? How do Serbs sound, maybe it were Croatians? Where did you hear them chortling? Was it in the barnyard behind the roasting pigs? Did you get their names for a court appearance/summons? If not,...why not!?

101 posted on 07/11/2004 3:19:59 PM PDT by CPC (HHC OJF the Pocket)
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
The 1990 war in the former Yugoslavia went forward because Serb Communists, knowing that free elections would result in their (a) loss of office and (b) eventual jailing, chose to set fire to the country by attempting to revert Yugoslavia into a dirty little Serb empire as it was in 1939. The country could have either been re-constructed as a loose federation or had a 'velvet divorce,' but the commies thought that making stupid, poor people bark up the tree of nationalism would guarentee their remaining in office. And they were right--it delayed their consignment to the ashheap of history until 2000 or so. The poor, stupid people of Serbia went along with the gag out of ignorance and a desire to steal the refrigerators of their well to do neighbors.

I don't agree with everything you've posted, but I agree with this. There have also been excesses and war crimes since on the part of the Croats, Bonians and Kosovar Albanians. Plenty of blame to go around, but the Serbs certainly aren't blameless. A sad and ongoing chapter in European history.

102 posted on 07/11/2004 3:21:16 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
If you're a mindless Serb Nazi, everything.

He, he. I repeat my question - why don't you go to the Hague to testify?

103 posted on 07/11/2004 3:26:08 PM PDT by A. Pole (Capt. Lionel Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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Comment #104 Removed by Moderator

To: Ronly Bonly Jones

In the first place, Ronly, pickpocket Muslims are not our greatest concern here. They will, by Muslim law, have their hands hacked off, if caught and convicted.

Our problem is with a religion, founded by a homicidal maniac, and manned by an army of homicidal maniaces , hell bent upon murdering everyone on earth who are rational.

We are not talking about burning down cities-cities are merely buildings and such. We are talking about dropping Neutron bombs on these sonovabitches, so the roaches and rodents are removed, with not an iota of damage to the infrastructure of these cities.

There is not a class of aleged human beings on the face of this earth, that is more deserving of extinction, than those you so foolishly uphold.

My God does not inflict punishment upon anyone for defending themselves-neither did the state until $h!t for brains liberals wormed their way into the law making proccess.








105 posted on 07/11/2004 3:29:41 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Two Johns, both full of it and over flowing-the democrats have created fly heaven.)
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To: Boazo

My Mamma always told me to be careful about making faces, cause it could freeze that way. From the silly grins on the faces of Kerry and Edie, it looks like they spent the rest of the night in a freezer, after they enjoyed the Bush bashing party by their filthy joking supporters in the alleged to be entertainment business.

Too bad the party was so damn gross that they are keeping it all a secret.


106 posted on 07/11/2004 3:38:59 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Two Johns, both full of it and over flowing-the democrats have created fly heaven.)
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
One does not burn down a city because it contains a pickpocket.

Cute line. I have another:

Cockroaches don't cease to exist because you happen to like them.

107 posted on 07/11/2004 3:45:19 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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To: expat_panama
but in front of our very eyes on this thread are those that are calling for the mass death of 1.3 billion people.

Count me among them and proud.
It took me a few years to realize it, but the alternative is the slower mass death of the "other" 5 billion earth inhabitants.

Doesn't sound that extreme when viewed from the viewpoint of what is, not what the sandmaggots would have us believe is reality.

108 posted on 07/11/2004 3:51:59 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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Comment #109 Removed by Moderator

To: JackRyanCIA

That was no 'ping.'

Speak nonsense, expect to be contradicted. Don't like it? Don't post.


110 posted on 07/11/2004 4:47:10 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: Publius6961

Regarding human beings as "cockroaches" is purest, blackest Nazi-think.

Human beings are not insects.


111 posted on 07/11/2004 4:48:09 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: CPC

I know what I'm talking about; I was there for several years.

I heard them laughing at the deaths of their enemies in several meetings with them in the Republika Srpska. They were Serbs because they were all elected city officials in the Republika Srpska. Croats don't live in the region; it's 95% Serb, 5% returnee Bosniac. I remember very vividly one meeting with a Zvornik city official who told me "We had to go to war with them, they were outbreeding us." Too stupid clearly to consider the much more pleasureable alternative.


112 posted on 07/11/2004 4:54:10 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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Comment #113 Removed by Moderator

To: Publius6961

PS: I know of one well known regime that decided that since a certain minority were "subhumans" they used an insecticide to kill them.... Zyklon B.


114 posted on 07/11/2004 4:55:48 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: JackRyanCIA

I'm not pinging you.

Don't post if you don't want to be contradicted.


115 posted on 07/11/2004 4:56:23 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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Comment #116 Removed by Moderator

Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

Comment #118 Removed by Moderator

To: Ronly Bonly Jones
I heard them laughing at the deaths of their enemies in several meetings with them in the Republika Srpska.

Gee, you have been everywhere. OK, so why don't you go to Hague to testify? They badly need you!

119 posted on 07/11/2004 5:01:59 PM PDT by A. Pole (Capt. Lionel Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: A. Pole

Well, they have a pretty high conviction rate, given the high guilt rate of the murderers in question; they don't need my help. Why don't YOU go to the Hague?


120 posted on 07/11/2004 5:03:32 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: A. Pole

Gee, you have been everywhere. >>

You have no idea.


121 posted on 07/11/2004 5:05:19 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (truth is truth)
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
Well, they have a pretty high conviction rate, given the high guilt rate of the murderers in question; they don't need my help.

Oh, they do, they do. Just check hown much trouble they gave with Slobo. One witness like you and they will win.

Why don't YOU go to the Hague?

Because I did not see or hear things you did. And I am not as skilful in making them up as you are.

122 posted on 07/11/2004 5:16:37 PM PDT by A. Pole (Capt. Lionel Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
Gee, you have been everywhere. >>

You have no idea.

No, I don't. Tell us something about.

123 posted on 07/11/2004 5:17:39 PM PDT by A. Pole (Capt. Lionel Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: dave_behrens

The pathologist here at work is a Muslim, and we eat lunch together from time to time. He hasn't mentioned killing/converting/enslaving me, but I'll bring it up the next time we get bored with talking about the Timberwolves or gleefully dissecting the Lakers desintegration.


124 posted on 07/11/2004 5:21:11 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones

"No human beings are worthy of extinction."

Why don't you explain that to those Islamites who are devoting their worthless lives to making all non-idiots extinct.

You can't distinguish between the Nazi and the victem.


125 posted on 07/11/2004 5:30:23 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Two Johns, both full of it and over flowing-the democrats have created fly heaven.)
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To: dave_behrens

How long must we play this game?


126 posted on 07/11/2004 5:37:24 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
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To: A. Pole
And I am not as skillful in making them up as you are.

He really should be writing science fiction instead of reading it...if he wasn't so gloomy, of course.

127 posted on 07/11/2004 5:39:37 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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Comment #128 Removed by Moderator

To: A. Pole

You know what, today's looking like a better day somehow.


129 posted on 07/11/2004 6:11:38 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones; Wraith; DTA; Jane_N; joan; FormerLib; Destro; *balkans
OH where oh where has ole ronly be?

This account has been banned or suspended.


Okay
130 posted on 07/11/2004 6:12:34 PM PDT by CPC (HHC OJF the Pocket)
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To: A. Pole
RBGoober is their secret star witness we don't know about yet... you know, how they in the last minute, the judge allows some last minute twist and allows "new evidence".
131 posted on 07/11/2004 6:15:23 PM PDT by CPC (HHC OJF the Pocket)
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To: CPC

"This account has been banned or suspended."

About time!


132 posted on 07/11/2004 6:19:01 PM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder! And please DON'T feed the trolls!)
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Comment #133 Removed by Moderator

To: AlaskaErik
Thanks, but no thanks; we'd rather just forget you. Us conservatives will follow the conservative lead of President George W. Bush, not some Keyboard Kommando or Salon Bolsheviki spreading calumny and unconservative and unAmerican tribal justice.
134 posted on 07/11/2004 9:23:49 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: CPC
One of the wonderful things about Americans is that we don't harbor some deep-seated death grudge going back to the 13th Century as if it happened yesterday, nor are we big on tribal justice and group guilt.
135 posted on 07/11/2004 9:30:46 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: E Rocc
Group hatred is an old story which Americans do not tolerate.
136 posted on 07/11/2004 9:33:03 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: A. Pole
Your post 61 has a reasonable tone.  It's good to renounce mass death in favor of mass conversion.  

The topic of the thread is coerced conversion, so before we talk about persuading Moslems to convert, please check out post 108 which proudly advocates mass death for 1.3 billion Moslems.   Think about it.   Let's say Publiusis gets his wish and starts out in order of say, age-- youngest first.  That means he'd begin with 20 million Moslem babies.  Lay them all on the ground together (we're talking Pubiusus' wish fulfillment here) and they'd cover the better part of a square mile.  It would probably be too much work for him to kill 20 million babies with a pitchfork, he'd probably have to use a tractor/disk cultivator.   You tell me how he would next kill the 20 million one-year olds, remember many of them would be trying to crawl away from the tractor.

We don't want to think that talk like this can't become a reality-- we know that it can and it has. We also know that Satan speaks through some who call themselves Christians, as well as some who call themselves Moslems.  (We both have to admit that Satan has spoken through you and me too.)   My suggestion is to work with us "good" people first before we try to make others like us.

137 posted on 07/12/2004 8:09:00 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: Zeroisanumber

I'm six feet two inches and weigh 204. It would be impossible for me to see a frightened, jealous little man looking back at me from the mirror.

Athiest, huh? Well go for the gusto. Hope you live a long and healthy life, since this is all you have.


138 posted on 07/12/2004 10:28:51 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Two Johns, both full of it and over flowing-the democrats have created fly heaven.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Every muslim is our enemy. We must never forget.

Thanks, but no thanks; we'd rather just forget you. Us conservatives will follow the conservative lead of President George W. Bush, not some Keyboard Kommando or Salon Bolsheviki spreading calumny and unconservative and unAmerican tribal justice.

First of all, George Bush is not that conservative. And as our President, he has to measure his words carefully before he speaks. When I say that every muslim is our enemy, it's the medical equivalent of Universal Precautions. That is to say, I trust none of them. I consider every one of them to have a greater allegiance to islam than to America. I will never have one as a friend and I will distrust every one of them. I am not a keyboard commando and I certainly don't read the trash that can be found on Salon. I'm just another conservative American who understands the threats we face today, both foreign and domestic.

139 posted on 07/12/2004 1:29:40 PM PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: F.J. Mitchell
I'm six feet two inches and weigh 204. It would be impossible for me to see a frightened, jealous little man looking back at me from the mirror.

Really? If you're so secure then what's with the internet tough-guy pose?

140 posted on 07/12/2004 1:52:13 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: AlaskaErik
No, you don't.
141 posted on 07/12/2004 4:38:34 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
I'm just another conservative American who understands the threats we face today, both foreign and domestic.

No, you don't.

And you do? I think you're pretty clueless. Better read (or reread it if you ever bothered to do so) that article and a few more on the evils of islam. You sound like a liberal appeaser. The French will soon rue the day they ever let muslims into their country. They are going to be islamisized in our lifetime. In fact, Western Europe will cease to exist before this century is over. Do the demographics Jack...islamofascists will own Western Europe this century. There will be no appeasing them. To them, it is a war for the world...literally. Islam is not a religion of peace. While it has some basis in Judo-Christianity, it is a cult of evil founded by a psychopath who was a murderer, enslaver, thief, pedophile, and those are his good traits. If you think you can trust the adherents of this blasphemy, then you are in the minority among conservatives.

142 posted on 07/12/2004 11:16:34 PM PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: AlaskaErik
Well, there's you on one side. And then there's President Bush and the Pope on the other. Now, let's see your credentials again, just to make a comparison?

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

LUMEN GENTIUM
Nevertheless, the religiosity of Muslims deserves respect. It is impossible not to admire, for example, their fidelity to prayer. The image of believers in Allah who, without caring about time or place, fall to their knees and immerse themselves in prayer remains a model for all those who invoke the true God, in particular for those Christians who, having deserted their magnificent cathedrals, pray only a little or not at all.
"Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by Pope John Paul II

143 posted on 07/12/2004 11:39:00 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

Don't even try telling me what the pope says. I could care less. Catholics have so distorted Christianity that they are separate from Christians. Didn't you reread the article. Just look at the title! ISLAM'S CHOICE: CONVERT, BE ENSLAVED, OR DIE. Those are your choices should islam take over the world. You need to do some serious reading up on islamic history. They may believe Abraham existed, but they totally perverted the word of God starting in the 7th century. Their idea of salvation is not the same as ours. I'm beginning to think you're a hopeless case. But I'll tell you what. You make friends with muslims and I'll keep my distance from them. Then we'll see who gets screwed over first.


144 posted on 07/13/2004 12:00:01 AM PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: Zeroisanumber

"Really? If you're so secure then what's with the internet tough guy pose?

What tough guy pose? I say what I mean-I mean what I say. What is your problem with that?


145 posted on 07/13/2004 8:38:07 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Two Johns, both full of it and over flowing-the democrats have created fly heaven.)
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To: Old Professer
How long must we play this game?

We must play 'this game' as long as the average person in the US remains ignorant of the true meaning and ultimate purpose of Islam: to conquer the world and place Islam as the only religion on Planet Earth.


146 posted on 07/13/2004 5:58:04 PM PDT by dave_behrens
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To: dave_behrens

147 posted on 07/13/2004 6:05:21 PM PDT by dave_behrens
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

"Prof. Moshe Sharon teaches Islamic History at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem"

...then Prof. Moshe Sharon should be looking for a new job soon.


148 posted on 07/15/2004 4:16:37 PM PDT by zimdog
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To: Happy2BMe
That’s quite a collection of quotes. Thank you. That’s the kind of stuff we can use. And I think that’s the most valuable thing we can do for each other here. We all seem to be in fairly good agreement about the danger of Islamic fundamentalism. It seems to me the task we have is to convince enough other people to take this seriously. It’s not going to be done by the mainstream media. It has to be us, here on this site, who do the job. One on one.

If you’re not very good at persuasion, you should BECOME good at it. It only takes know-how and practice. This is a war of memes as well as guns. And in the meme-war, the citizens of the West are on the front lines, and what we do will make the crucial difference, because about half the West is resistant to this information. So persuading a few people each can tip the balance. The most important thing we can do is this: Influence the opinions of the people around us who either don’t want to get involved or are under-informed.

Check out this article:

http://citizenwarrior2.blogspot.com/2007/08/london-honor-killing-highlights-growing.html

Near the end, I have some suggestions on how to improve your ability to influence opinions. I would appreciate it, and so would my readers, if you would add to the list of ideas. What works best for influencing people to change their mind about Islam, Iraq, and terrorism?

And here, let’s share with each other stories of conversations we’ve had with people who don’t know this stuff, and maybe who were resistant at first, but were won over. And then share with each other HOW they were won over.

This is a war of memes and we had better win.

149 posted on 09/02/2007 2:56:07 PM PDT by CitizenWarrior
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones

Has it really been eight years? Good show!


150 posted on 07/26/2012 10:27:50 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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