Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

KERRY'S VIEW ON ABORTION IS NOT SO CONTRADICTORY (Wrong. ZOT!!!)
7/11/04 | lulu

Posted on 07/11/2004 4:03:45 PM PDT by lulu21

I just wanted to make a statement regarding Kerry's views on abortion. I wanted to find out what his opinion was, so I came to this website. I found article talking about how he supposidly 'opposes' abortion. Then the same author discusses how in other statements, he has said it is the woman's right. Now, he is being criticized for having contradicting statements. I just wanted to clear this up.

His actual words in saying he opposed abortion were, "There is something called freedom of conscience in the Catholic Church. I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But I don't take my Catholic beliefs, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant, on a Jew, or an atheist who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."

I don't think that people understand what he is saying. He is saying that he does NOT like abortion. He PERSONALLY doesn't want it. However, he cannot make a law against something just because his religion does not believe in it. He talks of separation of church and state. That is what we are supposed to have in America. This is why we cannot have organized prayer in schools. It is also why you cannot ban gay marriage on the account of your 'religion' being against it. I am Catholic as well. I also study medicine. I don't like abortion, either. I wish it was illegal. However, I do understand his point that he cannot make it illegal because he doesn't like it. That would be unconstitutional and totally against 'American' values. I hope everyone can understand that.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortionillegal; dummyontheloose; feminazis; flipflop; hastalavistababy; kerryabortion; lawtoolate; luluisatroll; meow; pinata; rightsofunborn; thanksthemodsknow; trollalert; umustbstuned; valhalla; vikingkitty; zot; zotmequick
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-116 next last

1 posted on 07/11/2004 4:03:45 PM PDT by lulu21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: lulu21

>>There is something called freedom of conscience in the

It's an implicit freedom -- you can disobey the Church if you want to. However, using that freedom may allow you to persist in sin and inherit hell as a consequence. It's not a free pass.


2 posted on 07/11/2004 4:17:37 PM PDT by 1stFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Welcome to FR. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


3 posted on 07/11/2004 4:19:13 PM PDT by Jen (God bless America and our military members who defend her.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Kerry also claims to believe that lie begins at conception. This is also strictly not contradictory because liberals tend to believe that inconvenient (to liberals) life can by right be taken.


4 posted on 07/11/2004 4:19:21 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Ong la nguoi di hanh huong den La Vang)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
I believe life begins at conception. But I don't take my Catholic beliefs…

Opposing taking an innocent life - murder - is not only a catholic belief.

If you follow Kerry's logic, you can't legislate against theft or rape; after all these have moral dimension too, and "we have separation of church and state..."

So, yes, Kerry's views are contradictory.

5 posted on 07/11/2004 4:20:25 PM PDT by D-fendr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Welcome to FR.

Kerrys views ARE full of contradictions. He is trying to have it both ways, as is his habit. That is why we call him flip-flop.

He is against abortion (go for the anti vote), and is pro choice (go for the rest of the votes). In my world, that is 2 faced. I just wish the man would take a stand on ANY subject. Actually, I hope he keeps it up. the American people will see right through it, and my President WILL be reelected.
6 posted on 07/11/2004 4:20:36 PM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

ruh-roh....


7 posted on 07/11/2004 4:21:22 PM PDT by clintonh8r ("Just because I could.......")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Welcome to Free Republic. Good try to defend the indefensible.

Last year at a NARAL meeting, "I think that tonight we have to make it clear that we are not going to turn back the clock. There is no overturning of Roe v. Wade... There is no outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or health and there are no more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world. We need to take on this President and all of the forces of intolerance on this issue. We need to honestly and confidently and candidly take this issue out to the country and we need to speak up and be proud of what we stand for."


Did you catch that? Not only should abortion be available to all American women, all the time, but it should be used as a population control valve around the world. And this is something we should "be proud of." Not what you'd expect from someone who claims he doesn't like abortion.


And this isn't an isolated comment...


From the Boston Herald on January 23, 2001: "I will not back away from my conviction that international family planning programs are in America's best interests. We should resist pressures in this country for heavy-handed Washington mandates that ignore basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe."


Kerry's support for "international family planning programs" -- a standard euphemism for "abortion" -- is an issue he's advocated for some time. If Kerry is telling the truth about being "personally opposed" to abortion, why is he trying to spread it worldwide?


But perhaps the most outrageous quote comes from the 1994 Congressional record: "The right thing to do is to treat abortions as exactly what they are -- a medical procedure that any doctor is free to provide and any pregnant woman free to obtain. Consequently, abortions should not have to be performed in tightly guarded clinics on the edge of town; they should be performed and obtained in the same locations as any other medical procedure... [A]bortions need to be moved out of the fringes of medicine and into the mainstream of medical practice. And by the same token, if our children are to be safe from the danger of fanaticism, tolerance needs to spread out of the mainstream churches, mosques, and synagogues, and into the religious fringes."


Abortion is simply "a medical procedure"? If that were true, then on what grounds could he possibly be personally opposed to it?

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1166881/posts


8 posted on 07/11/2004 4:22:21 PM PDT by Peach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Okay, I see... Well "my" religion is actually against murder. Guess we can't go passing laws against that now can we?

Your logic as well as Kerry's is incredibly flawed.

9 posted on 07/11/2004 4:22:51 PM PDT by doingtherightthing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Welcome aboard Lulu, hope you enjoy your brief visit.

How do you reconcile Kerry usually not supporting the death penalty, is that not forcing his Catholic view?

Give it up, Kerry is using his religion as a crutch and is desparate to gather the Catholic vote, while making a joke of most of its doctrine.

The Catholic church was very helpful to Kerry when he desired to make bastards of his children.


10 posted on 07/11/2004 4:22:58 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Kerry's view, on abortion, conception or any other matter, is the view that he thinks will get him elected. He has no moral compass to guide him.

Anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool.

11 posted on 07/11/2004 4:23:06 PM PDT by glockmeister40
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Suppose Kerry said, "I'm personally against theft and murder, but I wouldn't want to impose it on anyone who thinks theft and murder are OK."

It's the same thing. Sorry, but abortion is killing an innocent human being. It was illegal in every country in the West for 2000 years, until the Supreme Court imposed a supposed right to "privacy" on our country. They were wrong.


12 posted on 07/11/2004 4:23:18 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Some one needs to pass this through the Troll Detection Unit...


13 posted on 07/11/2004 4:24:11 PM PDT by dagoofyfoot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

"I'm personally opposed to slavery; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."

"I'm personally opposed to infanticide; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."

I'm personally opposed to cannibalism; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."


14 posted on 07/11/2004 4:25:05 PM PDT by stands2reason (Kerry/Edwards: TERRORISTS FLEE FROM BETTER HAIR!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
"We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."

Another outright lie from Kerry.
We have no such thing, and these words will not to be found in our Constitution.

15 posted on 07/11/2004 4:25:21 PM PDT by jla (http://www.ronaldreaganmemorial.com/memorial_fund.asp)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Oh come on. The gigolo stated he believes life begins at conception. You either value life or you don't. You cannot have it both ways....can you imagine standing before God with this belief structure, knowing you had a public voice, and actually defending this double-speak? Oh my gosh.

And can you imagine trying to explain to God how even tho you knew each little one was a growing life, you just had to defend the mother's right to slaugher the growing baby because you needed votes?

16 posted on 07/11/2004 4:25:46 PM PDT by Republic (joe wilson is a LIAR-but since he is a democrat-the mainstream press is OK with it :^()
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

I personally don't like murder but I can't impose my beliefs on someone else.

I personally don't like rape but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.

I personally don't like child abuse but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.

I personally don't like wife abusing but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.

....

People that believe this way would lead to the destruction of society.


17 posted on 07/11/2004 4:25:48 PM PDT by go star go
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Too bad Jean sKerry's mommoie didn't have a "choice".
18 posted on 07/11/2004 4:25:53 PM PDT by clintonh8r ("Just because I could.......")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
I just wanted to make a statement regarding Kerry's views on abortion.

Is your finger wind burned too?

19 posted on 07/11/2004 4:26:08 PM PDT by EGPWS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
"I'm the only candidate running for president who hasn't played games, fudged around," said Kerry, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts. "If you believe that choice is a constitutional right, and I do, and if you believe that Roe v. Wade is the embodiment of that right ... I will not appoint a justice to the Supreme Court of the United States who will undo that right."

Kerry Sets Pro-abortion Litmus Test for Judges

20 posted on 07/11/2004 4:26:15 PM PDT by hole_n_one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Legislating his Catholic religion would mean outlawing the eating of meat on Fridays. Opposing abortion is not legislating Catholicism. Many Jews, Atheists, and Agnostics also abhore abortion.

Furthermore, all important legislation is a reflection of morality. Liberals believe guns should be kept away from private citizens and they legislate accordingly.

I'd love to hear why you think abortion is particularly a matter of religion while slavery and segregation are not.

21 posted on 07/11/2004 4:26:44 PM PDT by old and tired
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

I smell ozone.


22 posted on 07/11/2004 4:26:46 PM PDT by OSHA (Fast food breakfast in Heaven will be Hardee's Bacon, egg and cheese biscuits!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagoofyfoot

C'mon, this is such a strawman, it's a gift to us.


23 posted on 07/11/2004 4:27:57 PM PDT by stands2reason (Kerry/Edwards: TERRORISTS FLEE FROM BETTER HAIR!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Welcome to FR. You must be from DU.

"There is something called freedom of conscience in the Catholic Church. I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But I don't take my Catholic beliefs, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant, on a Jew, or an atheist who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."

If you believe that life starts at conception, then abortion is murder. It is not a matter of opposing abortion personally and then condoning it because you don't want to legislate it for others. Besides the basic, provable, biological fact that the fetus is a living organism inside the womb, there is the moral issue which cannot be neatly separated into personal and public. Your stand, like Kerry's, is a cop out meant to take both sides of an issue. We don't buy that moral relativism here.

24 posted on 07/11/2004 4:28:29 PM PDT by kabar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
I don't think that people understand what he is saying.

Most of us are sane.

25 posted on 07/11/2004 4:29:18 PM PDT by EGPWS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

26 posted on 07/11/2004 4:30:04 PM PDT by Rebelbase (If Peace is Patriotic why are they ashamed to fly the Flag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

If one believes that life starts at conception, one must believe that taking that life is murder. Is it only Catholics who dont believe in murder ? How can one say in good conscience that murder is ok because they dont want to press their faith on others?

Now Lulu you can make this statement that Kerry is following his conscience all you want , but the fact is Kerry is following his party in opposition to his religion.

As expert as Kerry is at BS'ing liberals by voting both ways, [he has made a career of it] he cant have this one both ways, in spite of his lying statements.

Trying to make excuses for him doesnt cut the Mustard,er ketchup, er pickles---whatever theres 57 variety's and Kerry will use them all to get elected.


27 posted on 07/11/2004 4:31:27 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stands2reason
C'mon, this is such a strawman, it's a gift to us.


Well........

THEN UNLEASH HELL!


ZOT!

28 posted on 07/11/2004 4:31:28 PM PDT by dagoofyfoot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Lulu, your reasoning is that of a 21 year-old. Sincere, but sincerely wrong. You cite abortion as being a "religious" matter. True, many people of faith decry the murder of innocent life because that is what it is: life. That is not a matter of "religion". It is a fact that human life begins at conception. "Choice" does not trump life.

Those who are beating the drum of gay "marriage" are attempting to redefine the most basic of all human relationships and institutions. In fact, they are forcing their own personal view on every American. Does that not sound a bit like this is their version of "religion"? It does to me.


29 posted on 07/11/2004 4:31:36 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie (If we had some eggs, we could have bacon and eggs if we had some bacon. --unknown Freeper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
1. Neither the Catholic Church or any other church that I know of teaches absolute freedom of conscience. THe conscience must be formed by scripture and the teachings of the church. Until recently, all Christian churches taught that abortion was gravely sinful. If you are a Catholic, it is your duty to oppose abortion.

2. Christian morality is NOT a matter of liking or not liking. It is a matter of what is right and wrong. Abortion CAN be made illegal because it is, even by Mr. Kerry's standard, the taking of an innocent human life. It is wrong.

Separation of church and state has absolutely nothing to do with outlawing abortion. Even some atheists have come to the conclusion that it is immoral and should be made illegal.

There is NO world religion that says that abortion is always acceptable.

30 posted on 07/11/2004 4:32:09 PM PDT by newberger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
I am Catholic as well. I also study medicine. I don't like abortion, either. I wish it was illegal. However, I do understand his point that he cannot make it illegal because he doesn't like it. That would be unconstitutional and totally against 'American' values. I hope everyone can understand that.

Kerry has, in the recent past, not only said that he won't make abortion illegal, he has intimated that he will adopt the agenda of radical feminists and make certain that more abortions take place.

From a speech that Kerry made to the anti-life group NARAL in January 2003:


As I said 18 years ago in my maiden speech in the U.S. Senate: "the right to choose is a fundamental right . . . neither the Government nor any person has the right to infringe on that freedom." If I get to share a stage with this President and debate him . . . one of the first things I'll tell him is: "There's a defining issue between us. I trust women to make their own decisions. You don't. And that's the difference." So it's time we said to this President: "we're not going to let you turn back the clock."

No overturning Roe v. Wade

No packing of the courts with judges hostile to choice

No denial of choice to poor women

No outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or physical health

No more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world


Notice how Kerry did not mention his "personal" stance. Think it was just an unfortunate omission? I suspect that you are a troll, lulu, but if you are not, and survive your first post here, I would appreciate your reaction to this Kerry speech, and whether or not saying that he opposes abortion personally jibes with these quotes.
31 posted on 07/11/2004 4:32:41 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

John Kerry believes in John Kerry. For him, everything else is negotiable.


32 posted on 07/11/2004 4:34:20 PM PDT by auboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
The only way you can make statements like that, and remain intellectually consistent, is if you DO NOT believe that an unborn baby is "human".

If you claim that you do, then you have been blinded to evil. How sad.

33 posted on 07/11/2004 4:35:29 PM PDT by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
This has less to do with Kerry's ethical position, and more to do with yours.

Accept whatever rationalizations you wish to. Kerry is representative of the culture of death.

34 posted on 07/11/2004 4:35:31 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: L.N. Smithee

The silence of LULU tells me that she was a drive by troll.

However, the discussion is great.


35 posted on 07/11/2004 4:36:11 PM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: lulu21

Kerry is the perfect example of an amoral person. He says like me because I believe life begins at conception and abortion is wrong. However, if you disagree with me, you can kill that life and it does not affect me and you can still like me.

Leaders take positions and live by and defend those positions. If you believe ife begins at conception, the purposeful taking of that life after conception is murder. There is only black and white, there is no gray area.


37 posted on 07/11/2004 4:36:59 PM PDT by Misplaced Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: L.N. Smithee

It's starting to reek of troll.


38 posted on 07/11/2004 4:37:10 PM PDT by hole_n_one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Your lack of a response to any of these comments says it all. Now run on back to DU where you belong.


39 posted on 07/11/2004 4:37:21 PM PDT by wolf24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

To be against the killing of babies and then prostitute your morality in order to gain political power is reprehensible.


40 posted on 07/11/2004 4:37:27 PM PDT by bad company ((<a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com" target="_blank">Hatriotism))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Peach
Cool, Peach. You beat me to it, and with better quotes.

Oh, by the way -- the speech I linked on my post? It was provided by James Taranto at Opinion Journal.com's Best of the Web.

The Kerry website has delinked his NARAL speech. I'm sure it's just a glitch. </sarcasm>

41 posted on 07/11/2004 4:38:28 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Michael MOOOOOre is full of bull)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Member Since: July 11th, 2004.

Nothing but a Kerry stooge.

Sorry but under Catholic Faith life begins at CONCEPTION, period.... you either live your faith or you don't. If you live your faith and life begins at conception, allowing abortion to be legal is a violation of the 10 commandments of God....

Kerry's attempt to spin his behavior as moral is nothing more than the same old Democratic nonsense... last guy wanted us to question what the meaning of "is" is... this guy wants us to "ignore the faith behind the curtain"...

I got no problem with Kerry admitting he's not a devout Catholic.. because honestly he's not. But to try to claim he's a devout catholic and then attempt to explain away his affronts to the Catholic faith as being a good catholic... well... that just ain't gonna fly.


42 posted on 07/11/2004 4:38:47 PM PDT by HamiltonJay ("You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: L.N. Smithee

LOL.

Convenient "glitches" that Kerry has. Hah!


43 posted on 07/11/2004 4:39:24 PM PDT by Peach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: lulu21

Yeesh, I just sat down...hold on, let me get my helmet..

44 posted on 07/11/2004 4:39:51 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Thanks for clarifying that.

Does this mean that John Kerry will also recognize my right to refuse to pay taxes, too? Or recognize the rights of men to beat their wives?

/sarcasm off/

He's full of sh!t, no matter how you try to spin it. Every law in this criminalizes any kind of behavior effectively forces one moral viewpoint on others.

45 posted on 07/11/2004 4:40:45 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium . . . sed ego sum homo indomitus")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lulu21
Lulu, I was gonna comment but I see you've been sutiably chastised, corrected and given a proper chance to trod the enlightened path.

I will add this. "Separation of church and state" is a phrase plucked out of aletter from a President to a Dnabury Baptist Minister by an anti-Catholic bigot by the name of Justice Hugo Black who enshrined it in the secular, lefty hall of fame in, I believe, 1947.

46 posted on 07/11/2004 4:41:31 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1stFreedom

The Church is also against murder. But Kerry would never apply "Freedom of Conscience" to murder. If he truely believed life begins at conception, he must then see abortion as murder, and he should oppose it just like any other murder.


47 posted on 07/11/2004 4:43:56 PM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 4mycountry

Kittie, kittie, kittie!


48 posted on 07/11/2004 4:44:12 PM PDT by netmilsmom ("We haven't begun military action. the world will know when we do." -Marine in Fallujah)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Caipirabob

lol!


49 posted on 07/11/2004 4:44:14 PM PDT by hole_n_one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: lulu21; Polycarp IV
BZZZZZZZT!!

"Freedom of conscience" presumes a well-formed conscience, and does not in any way condone or allow action in direct contradiction to Church teaching.

The right to life is not only Church teaching, but is part of the natural law, which cannot be overridden by civil law.

Nice try, but no cigar.

50 posted on 07/11/2004 4:44:43 PM PDT by B Knotts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-116 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson