Skip to comments.KERRY'S VIEW ON ABORTION IS NOT SO CONTRADICTORY (Wrong. ZOT!!!)
Posted on 07/11/2004 4:03:45 PM PDT by lulu21
I just wanted to make a statement regarding Kerry's views on abortion. I wanted to find out what his opinion was, so I came to this website. I found article talking about how he supposidly 'opposes' abortion. Then the same author discusses how in other statements, he has said it is the woman's right. Now, he is being criticized for having contradicting statements. I just wanted to clear this up.
His actual words in saying he opposed abortion were, "There is something called freedom of conscience in the Catholic Church. I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But I don't take my Catholic beliefs, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant, on a Jew, or an atheist who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."
I don't think that people understand what he is saying. He is saying that he does NOT like abortion. He PERSONALLY doesn't want it. However, he cannot make a law against something just because his religion does not believe in it. He talks of separation of church and state. That is what we are supposed to have in America. This is why we cannot have organized prayer in schools. It is also why you cannot ban gay marriage on the account of your 'religion' being against it. I am Catholic as well. I also study medicine. I don't like abortion, either. I wish it was illegal. However, I do understand his point that he cannot make it illegal because he doesn't like it. That would be unconstitutional and totally against 'American' values. I hope everyone can understand that.
>>There is something called freedom of conscience in the
It's an implicit freedom -- you can disobey the Church if you want to. However, using that freedom may allow you to persist in sin and inherit hell as a consequence. It's not a free pass.
Kerry also claims to believe that lie begins at conception. This is also strictly not contradictory because liberals tend to believe that inconvenient (to liberals) life can by right be taken.
Opposing taking an innocent life - murder - is not only a catholic belief.
If you follow Kerry's logic, you can't legislate against theft or rape; after all these have moral dimension too, and "we have separation of church and state..."
So, yes, Kerry's views are contradictory.
Welcome to Free Republic. Good try to defend the indefensible.
Last year at a NARAL meeting, "I think that tonight we have to make it clear that we are not going to turn back the clock. There is no overturning of Roe v. Wade... There is no outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or health and there are no more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world. We need to take on this President and all of the forces of intolerance on this issue. We need to honestly and confidently and candidly take this issue out to the country and we need to speak up and be proud of what we stand for."
Did you catch that? Not only should abortion be available to all American women, all the time, but it should be used as a population control valve around the world. And this is something we should "be proud of." Not what you'd expect from someone who claims he doesn't like abortion.
And this isn't an isolated comment...
From the Boston Herald on January 23, 2001: "I will not back away from my conviction that international family planning programs are in America's best interests. We should resist pressures in this country for heavy-handed Washington mandates that ignore basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe."
Kerry's support for "international family planning programs" -- a standard euphemism for "abortion" -- is an issue he's advocated for some time. If Kerry is telling the truth about being "personally opposed" to abortion, why is he trying to spread it worldwide?
But perhaps the most outrageous quote comes from the 1994 Congressional record: "The right thing to do is to treat abortions as exactly what they are -- a medical procedure that any doctor is free to provide and any pregnant woman free to obtain. Consequently, abortions should not have to be performed in tightly guarded clinics on the edge of town; they should be performed and obtained in the same locations as any other medical procedure... [A]bortions need to be moved out of the fringes of medicine and into the mainstream of medical practice. And by the same token, if our children are to be safe from the danger of fanaticism, tolerance needs to spread out of the mainstream churches, mosques, and synagogues, and into the religious fringes."
Abortion is simply "a medical procedure"? If that were true, then on what grounds could he possibly be personally opposed to it?
Your logic as well as Kerry's is incredibly flawed.
Welcome aboard Lulu, hope you enjoy your brief visit.
How do you reconcile Kerry usually not supporting the death penalty, is that not forcing his Catholic view?
Give it up, Kerry is using his religion as a crutch and is desparate to gather the Catholic vote, while making a joke of most of its doctrine.
The Catholic church was very helpful to Kerry when he desired to make bastards of his children.
Anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool.
Suppose Kerry said, "I'm personally against theft and murder, but I wouldn't want to impose it on anyone who thinks theft and murder are OK."
It's the same thing. Sorry, but abortion is killing an innocent human being. It was illegal in every country in the West for 2000 years, until the Supreme Court imposed a supposed right to "privacy" on our country. They were wrong.
Some one needs to pass this through the Troll Detection Unit...
"I'm personally opposed to slavery; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."
"I'm personally opposed to infanticide; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."
I'm personally opposed to cannibalism; it's against my religion, but I can't go forcing others to follow my religious beliefs."
Another outright lie from Kerry.
We have no such thing, and these words will not to be found in our Constitution.
And can you imagine trying to explain to God how even tho you knew each little one was a growing life, you just had to defend the mother's right to slaugher the growing baby because you needed votes?
I personally don't like murder but I can't impose my beliefs on someone else.
I personally don't like rape but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.
I personally don't like child abuse but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.
I personally don't like wife abusing but I cannot impose my beliefs on someone else.
People that believe this way would lead to the destruction of society.
Is your finger wind burned too?
Furthermore, all important legislation is a reflection of morality. Liberals believe guns should be kept away from private citizens and they legislate accordingly.
I'd love to hear why you think abortion is particularly a matter of religion while slavery and segregation are not.
I smell ozone.
C'mon, this is such a strawman, it's a gift to us.
"There is something called freedom of conscience in the Catholic Church. I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But I don't take my Catholic beliefs, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant, on a Jew, or an atheist who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."
If you believe that life starts at conception, then abortion is murder. It is not a matter of opposing abortion personally and then condoning it because you don't want to legislate it for others. Besides the basic, provable, biological fact that the fetus is a living organism inside the womb, there is the moral issue which cannot be neatly separated into personal and public. Your stand, like Kerry's, is a cop out meant to take both sides of an issue. We don't buy that moral relativism here.
Most of us are sane.
If one believes that life starts at conception, one must believe that taking that life is murder. Is it only Catholics who dont believe in murder ? How can one say in good conscience that murder is ok because they dont want to press their faith on others?
Now Lulu you can make this statement that Kerry is following his conscience all you want , but the fact is Kerry is following his party in opposition to his religion.
As expert as Kerry is at BS'ing liberals by voting both ways, [he has made a career of it] he cant have this one both ways, in spite of his lying statements.
Trying to make excuses for him doesnt cut the Mustard,er ketchup, er pickles---whatever theres 57 variety's and Kerry will use them all to get elected.
Lulu, your reasoning is that of a 21 year-old. Sincere, but sincerely wrong. You cite abortion as being a "religious" matter. True, many people of faith decry the murder of innocent life because that is what it is: life. That is not a matter of "religion". It is a fact that human life begins at conception. "Choice" does not trump life.
Those who are beating the drum of gay "marriage" are attempting to redefine the most basic of all human relationships and institutions. In fact, they are forcing their own personal view on every American. Does that not sound a bit like this is their version of "religion"? It does to me.
2. Christian morality is NOT a matter of liking or not liking. It is a matter of what is right and wrong. Abortion CAN be made illegal because it is, even by Mr. Kerry's standard, the taking of an innocent human life. It is wrong.
Separation of church and state has absolutely nothing to do with outlawing abortion. Even some atheists have come to the conclusion that it is immoral and should be made illegal.
There is NO world religion that says that abortion is always acceptable.
Kerry has, in the recent past, not only said that he won't make abortion illegal, he has intimated that he will adopt the agenda of radical feminists and make certain that more abortions take place.
Notice how Kerry did not mention his "personal" stance. Think it was just an unfortunate omission? I suspect that you are a troll, lulu, but if you are not, and survive your first post here, I would appreciate your reaction to this Kerry speech, and whether or not saying that he opposes abortion personally jibes with these quotes.
As I said 18 years ago in my maiden speech in the U.S. Senate: "the right to choose is a fundamental right . . . neither the Government nor any person has the right to infringe on that freedom." If I get to share a stage with this President and debate him . . . one of the first things I'll tell him is: "There's a defining issue between us. I trust women to make their own decisions. You don't. And that's the difference." So it's time we said to this President: "we're not going to let you turn back the clock."
No overturning Roe v. Wade
No packing of the courts with judges hostile to choice
No denial of choice to poor women
No outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or physical health
No more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world
John Kerry believes in John Kerry. For him, everything else is negotiable.
If you claim that you do, then you have been blinded to evil. How sad.
Accept whatever rationalizations you wish to. Kerry is representative of the culture of death.
The silence of LULU tells me that she was a drive by troll.
However, the discussion is great.
Kerry is the perfect example of an amoral person. He says like me because I believe life begins at conception and abortion is wrong. However, if you disagree with me, you can kill that life and it does not affect me and you can still like me.
Leaders take positions and live by and defend those positions. If you believe ife begins at conception, the purposeful taking of that life after conception is murder. There is only black and white, there is no gray area.
It's starting to reek of troll.
Your lack of a response to any of these comments says it all. Now run on back to DU where you belong.
To be against the killing of babies and then prostitute your morality in order to gain political power is reprehensible.
Oh, by the way -- the speech I linked on my post? It was provided by James Taranto at Opinion Journal.com's Best of the Web.
The Kerry website has delinked his NARAL speech. I'm sure it's just a glitch. </sarcasm>
Member Since: July 11th, 2004.
Nothing but a Kerry stooge.
Sorry but under Catholic Faith life begins at CONCEPTION, period.... you either live your faith or you don't. If you live your faith and life begins at conception, allowing abortion to be legal is a violation of the 10 commandments of God....
Kerry's attempt to spin his behavior as moral is nothing more than the same old Democratic nonsense... last guy wanted us to question what the meaning of "is" is... this guy wants us to "ignore the faith behind the curtain"...
I got no problem with Kerry admitting he's not a devout Catholic.. because honestly he's not. But to try to claim he's a devout catholic and then attempt to explain away his affronts to the Catholic faith as being a good catholic... well... that just ain't gonna fly.
Convenient "glitches" that Kerry has. Hah!
Yeesh, I just sat down...hold on, let me get my helmet..
Does this mean that John Kerry will also recognize my right to refuse to pay taxes, too? Or recognize the rights of men to beat their wives?
He's full of sh!t, no matter how you try to spin it. Every law in this criminalizes any kind of behavior effectively forces one moral viewpoint on others.
I will add this. "Separation of church and state" is a phrase plucked out of aletter from a President to a Dnabury Baptist Minister by an anti-Catholic bigot by the name of Justice Hugo Black who enshrined it in the secular, lefty hall of fame in, I believe, 1947.
The Church is also against murder. But Kerry would never apply "Freedom of Conscience" to murder. If he truely believed life begins at conception, he must then see abortion as murder, and he should oppose it just like any other murder.
Kittie, kittie, kittie!
"Freedom of conscience" presumes a well-formed conscience, and does not in any way condone or allow action in direct contradiction to Church teaching.
The right to life is not only Church teaching, but is part of the natural law, which cannot be overridden by civil law.
Nice try, but no cigar.