Skip to comments.New Twist On Out-Of-Africa Theory
Posted on 07/14/2004 8:53:47 AM PDT by blam
New twist on out-of-Africa theory
ABC Science Online
Wednesday, 14 July 2004
Homo erectus, the species thought to be the first to leave Africa for Eurasia in the out-of-Africa model of human origin (Image: Science)
Early humans made love, not war, according to new DNA analysis presented at a genetics conference that gives a new twist on the out-of-Africa hypothesis of human origins.
U.S. researcher Professor Alan Templeton of Washington University, St Louis, debunks the prevailing version of the out-of-Africa hypothesis, which says early humans migrated from Africa and wiped out Eurasian populations.
Instead, they bred, he told the Genetics Society of Australia's annual conference in Melbourne this week.
Templeton said his evidence didn't support the so-called replacement theory in which African hominids caused the extinction of other Homo species.
Instead, he said his analysis of the human genome showed prehistoric gene-swapping created a single evolutionary lineage beginning in Africa and ending where we are today.
He looked at mitochondrial DNA, as well as DNA on a range of chromosomes including X and Y.
"The genetic legacy of current humans is predominantly of African origin," he said.
Templeton is the first to suggest expansion out of Africa occurred in three waves: 2 million years ago, 800,000 years ago and 100,000 years ago.
The alternative view suggests that expansion out of Africa occurred twice and caused the genetic extinction of existing populations, with the colonisers later diversifying into separate races.
What about races?
But Templeton said this extinction never happened and a combination of movement and interbreeding meant diversification of races didn't occur.
"We really have to abandon the idea of race. It actually does not reflect the genetic differences we can now measure in an objective fashion."
Templeton said the differences between human populations today were based on geography not genetics.
This meant a Norwegian would be more closely related than a Fijian to someone from sub-Saharan Africa.
"We do see differences in different regions of the world but the best indicator of those differences is simply geographical distance and not things like skin colour."
Templeton said his data was inconclusive on whether interbreeding also occurred with Neanderthals.
But he said there was fossil evidence that this probably occurred, which would imply a bit of Neanderthal could live on in us all.
Australian geneticist Associate Professor Philip Batterham from the University of Melbourne said the research showed humanity was far more closely related that previously thought and that race was a cultural phenomenon.
Templeton's research was published in the journal Nature in March 2002.
You and mine both. There was never any reason to make OOA and multi-regional mutually exclusive.
Leon Schuster I believe... a very very popular South African comedian.
Are you serious Clark?
Maybe in apartheid South Africa or the Old South. Their skin color will probably be somewhere between white and black. Why is such a child automatically considered black, in your mind?
If I recall correctly, Cyb is of mixed-race ancestry. I'd be curious to hear her take on this.
A white and black marry and the child will be MIXED race. So you are wrong. Next question? Like I said, you just demonstrated that race is politicial.
My father is white and my mother is West Indian Creole of mixed race origin herself. Here in America, there was the one drop rule that any black blood made you black for the purposes of slavery and segregation (heartily now championed by liberals!). South Africa a mixed race person is mixed race or coloured as more commonly know and the apartheid rules had its own peculiar set of limitations,etc.
Race is BS and made up by people with a deliberate agenda of their own.
Other stories of the period had Adam and Lilith both created from dust, and being equal Lilith refused to lie beneath Adam. When Adam tried to compel her by force, Lilith called on the sacred name of God, rose into the air and left him.
She wandered (transported? ) to the Red Sea, where she had a hundred babies each day, fathered by the demons that populated the area. As punishment, God would kill any male on the eight day that didn't have his mark (circumcision?). And since Lilith parted from Adam before the fall, she escaped the curse of death.
I'm not sure that it is helpful to characterize race as just "political". The many genetically determined characteristics which constitute "race" are real and have required many centuries to come about. That there are consequences to this effect should not be a surprise and calling them all "political" perhaps understates the challenge.
One poster pointed out the association of particular diseases with a single race. It may require politics to address the issue, but the issue is not of political origin. I would not term as political the forces in the past which led to the isolation and differentiation that we observe.
You are certainly correct that the offspring of people of different races are of mixed-race and not of a presumed inferior race. You responded probably with less derision than I might have.
I think that biology will be develop into something very specific in terms treating disease. Not sure how that will happen as people don't like their DNA being tinkered with. I'm sure one day that medicine will be taking a designer pill just for your own problem.
"Two blacks marry, their child will be black. Two green-eyed people married, and you have no idea what color the children's eyes will be.
A white and a black marry, and the child will be black.
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Something for you to read,cyborg.:-)
hehehe I'm glad to be on the ping list... I may have missed it if someone else didn't ping me to it before. Lots of interesting things to read in the study of evolution. I still don't believe in the theory of evolution but I read them anyway.
I don't believe in evolution and I don't believe that " out of Africa " junk either.
it's an honor to get pinged by you ;-) I am skeptical about a lot of things, and 'Out of Africa' is one of them. If I am to go by what I read in the news, it seems like they find a skeleton older here and there, not just Africa. It's confusing. I'd like to see a definative nailed down location for these origin studies.
I don't remember just when it was;however,I do remember that not too long ago,a skeleton/s about as old as LUCY, was found in China.That blows the "out of Africa" junk out of the water completely!
There are three races...that's it! If evolution and the "out of Africa" stuff were both true,then why didn't some parents in China,let's say,ever have a Negroid looking child?
That's why I think it's all 'iffy' right now as far as origin theories are concerned. So human beings have a penchant for classsifying people, and athropologically I've always read that there are three anthropological races. Most scientists say that Australian aborigines are 'caucasian'. In today's modern society there are lots of mixing of cultures but I don't think much of that was going on in the Ice Age *LOL*
Yes,the Caucasoid classification of Australian aborigines is a head scratcher,but it is what it is.:-)
It's not accurate to say "many biblical scholars say...."
They don't. There are fringe groups which teach weird things. The best thing is to take whatever your group is teaching you, and do as the Apostle Paul called "noble": compare everything taught you daily with what is actually in the Word (Acts 17:4). Also, study objectively what the historic positions of Christianity are on the foundational beliefs. Then compare those to what your group is teaching you, or the books you're reading. Ask the Lord to give you wisdom, and be open to truth.
The brown of brown horses is HAIR color, not skin color. And, no, we do not consider blonde caucasians to be a different race from brunette caucasians.
Ever see that excellent PBS-TV show that had all the many different breeds of dawgs?
Tested them for intelligence and basic smarts?
One simple test was putting a towel of the dawg's head and counting in seconds how long it took for each breed to toss it off.
Some sat there confused like box of rocks.
Others flipped it off every time in a flash. Others were always puzzled and confused and hesitated, then removed the towel from their heads. Then there were those that took forever; even seeming too......give up!
The border collies always tested right up top.
Trying to recall the incredibly "slow" and "challenged" mutts.
They were consistently at the bottom of the pond.
Then there were those in the middle.
We had a standard Hollywood collie named "Heather".
Great guard dawg and wonderful with kids, took on a little orphaned kitten with her own litter once. Loved to run in the Sout Florida surf and swim across the Incoastal Canal and back too with me. Terrific hunter, ran with our horses and would round up our cattle with a whistle.
Our hound dawg was sharp and friendly and and protective also.
But I recall a little cocker spaniel that had the sense of many people we see and shake our heads at.
That PBS-TV dwg series was not very PC. Imagine them slowing various [races of?] people from around the globe and testing them for intelligence, alertness, basic sense.......
I guess a Shetland pony and a Thorobred and a draft horse are all just like different shades of hair.
Has the author of this theory finally got that silly towel off his head yet?
The purebreds are too closely bred into near generations and it shows with them having the sense of a mutt.
Unto the penultimate generation?
Evolutionary theory says that they wouldn't. So you've answered your own question.
Race is not a property of a person but a category that one is assigned to. There are no characteristics that uniquely identify race. Classification may be useful forensically but so is how one is dressed.
That is what's commonly called, an evolutionary dead end.
So THAT'S what it is.
I have a TOWEL on my head !!!!!
Okay - sound good to me. So why don't they start breeding some smarts into Cockers?
I just finished reading a book called "The Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells a geneticist from Oxford who once worked under Luca Cavalli-Sforza. He claims that the genetic evidence is showing a very recent exodus from Africa for all modern humans (60-50,000 ya). He claims work just completed on the Y chromosome has now complemented work done on mtDNA to show no admixture of modern human genes with any other population.
Well, my eyes are mostly bloodshot. Where did I get that trait???
Anyway, my father is blond haired, blue-eyed and my mother was brown hair, brown-eyed. She obviously was Bb because all three of the children have blue or green eyes. Mine are more silvery-green than anything - like Meg Foster's in "They Live" but not as extreme.
I've always thought that the Holocaust and its aftermath should be studied scientifically. It represented a "shock" to a population that was somewhat different than its surrounding (Middle Eastern Jews in Europe). What I think would be interesting is how a cultural change affects future generations genetically. Not surprisingly, the "Never Again" mentality took hold after the Holocaust and that has to have some effect on the choices Jewish women make in choosing a husband. Do they choose more aggressive men that would be better defenders of them or do they choose less aggressive men because of the disgust with the aggressive Nazis? I guess the mixing with Europeans probably makes any sort of study impossible. Half the Jews I know are blue eyed and many have blondish hair, which would confuse the heck out of Hitler.
Are you kidding?!!! People love cute dumb dogs! It's the smart ones that get into trouble...
It's pure conjecture, of course, and really doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but it sure would set the wild-eyed, rabid, young earth creationists on fire if they ever saw our posts....
While we're at it, let's tell the white man who can't dance that race is only a political construct.
I agree to a point -- race is a genetically identifiable characteristic and something that I find fascinating. However, race doesn't matter. My new bride is Hispanic (i.e., mixed race) while, as far as I know, I am of purely northern European heritage. We see ourselves as human children of God with slightly different skin coloration.
No one cares about our "mixed marriage" except the liberals. We both have black hair and brown eyes but her skin is several shades darker than mine. Big deal. She looks like a hot tamale while I'm boringly white so I'm very fortunate.
By the way, do you look like Colin Powell? I think that the offspring of "mixed marriages" are often incredibly attractive people. Ethiopia is an entire country of mixed race and 90% of the women there could be supermodels.
On the level of genetics and anthropological research sure there are slight differences. Hehehe no I don't look like Colin Powell but one of my good friends from Barbados does.
My pic is here http://www.freerepublic.com/~cyborg/ go all the way to the bottom and I'm not the chick on the left either ;-)
Exactly. I believe that within 200 years, the concept of race will be largely gone and we'll all look pretty much alike. Travel makes mixing much easier, plus marrying a person of a different race is no longer a social or political negative in many places.
I dated a beautiful first-generation Norwegian from the midwest about 15 years ago whose grandfather got incensed when she had a Swedish boyfriend in high school. To him, a Norwegian dating a Swede was a mixing of the races and, thus, a bad idea. Attitudes have really changed over the years!
Hubba, hubba! You prove my point!
Race as it is discussed between scientists is a very different discussion. I would prefer to discuss with scientists whatever ideas they have to offer. However, since the majority of people are NOT scientists, race is really a political discussion and it is a social construct. Were politics left up to evolutionary biology we would still all be equal anyway since according to the theory of evolution we all share a common ancestor. It's all up in a lot of people's minds and as usual LIBERALS are the biggest racists and fixators on race there is.
There's been some work done to trace the genetics of Jewish people. The Ashkenazim (European Jews) do appear to be largely European genetically, but I gather there are genes that tend to be found only in them and not in other Europeans. Can't remember the details.
Hon, what Bible are you (or those scholars) reading?
If you are that gullible and have any money whatsoever, please let me know so that I can concoct some wild fantasy and pass it off as truth, thereby separating you from your fortune.
Agreed. My degrees are in chemistry and chemical engineering so, while I'm not qualified in biology, I still take a very scientific view towards race. It's a fascinating subject.
I think that the whole idea of inferior races is hogwash, of course, because of my Christian belief system, which is backed up by science. We're all human and we're all God's creation.
I also believe that real instances of racial discrimination are fairly rare these days, despite what the Jesse Jackson's of the world say. I don't know a single person who holds racist views. They're out there, I'm sure, but few hold positions of any authority.
"I agree to a point -- race is a genetically identifiable characteristic and something that I find fascinating. However, race doesn't matter."
David Bowie would agree ;-)