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Russia signs Major Tank Production Deal with Pakistan
MosNews ^ | 12.07.2004

Posted on 07/14/2004 9:01:35 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe


T-90S tank / Photo from Rosoboronexport official site

Russia’s state unitary enterprise “Uralvagonzavod,” the country’s top battle tank producer, on Sunday signed a production deal with Pakistan, a day after the country’s Foreign Minister, Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, held talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov, the Pakistan Times newspaper reports.

The ’tank production’ deal between the Uralvagonzavod plant and Islamabad was signed on the sidelines of the “UralArmsExpo” exhibition in Nizhny Tagil in the Sverdlovsk region.

“We can say that tank-production contracts between Uralvagonzavod and Pakistan have been clinched,” the director of the Union of Regional Defence Industry, Viktor Batuyev, was quoted as saying by the agency without giving any details.

After his talks with Lavrov yesterday, Kasuri said both Moscow and Islamabad had agreed to upgrade their bilateral relations, while the Russian Foreign Minister said no concrete defense cooperation plans were discussed by them.

Russian news agencies reported that Pakistan would receive a large batch of modern T-90S battle tanks. A short time ago, Uralvagonzavod supplied 300 such tanks to India — Pakistan’s main rival in the Hindustan region.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: miltech; pakistan; southasia

1 posted on 07/14/2004 9:01:39 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

2 posted on 07/14/2004 9:12:46 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Fine if used against the Chechens. Warthog feed if used against us.


3 posted on 07/14/2004 9:28:33 AM PDT by MattinNJ (It will be a Dubya landslide. hillary will see to it.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Actually, it looks like a pretty formidable weapon system.

From www.army-technology.com:

The T-90S is the latest development in the T-series of Russian tanks and represents an increase in firepower, mobility and protection. It is manufactured by Nizhnyi Tagil of the Russian Federation.

The T-90S is in service with the Russian Army and the Indian Army. In February 2001, the Indian Army signed a contract for 310 T-90S tanks. 124 were completed in Russia and the rest are being delivered in "knocked down/semi-knocked down" form for final assembly in India. The first of these was delivered in January 2004. The locally-assembled tanks are christened "Bhishma". The tanks are fitted with the Shtora self-protection system and thermal imagers from Thales of France and Peleng of Belarus.

ARMAMENT

The T-90S armament includes one 125mm 2A46M smoothbore gun, stabilised in two axes and fitted with a thermal sleeve. The gun tube can be replaced without dismantling inside the turret. The gun can fire a variety of ammunition including APDS (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot), HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank), HE-FRAG (High Explosive Fragmentation) as well as shrapnel projectiles with time fuzes.

The T-90S gun can also fire the 9M119 Refleks (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank guided missile system. The range of the missile is 100m to 4,000m and takes 11.7 sec to reach maximum range. The system is intended to engage tanks fitted with ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour) as well as low-flying air targets such as helicopters, at a range of up to 5km. The missile system fires either the 9M119 or 9M119M missiles which have semi-automatic laser beamriding guidance and a hollow charge warhead. Missile weight is 23.4kg. The guns automatic loader will feed both ordnance and missiles.

Also fitted is a coaxial 7.62mm PKT machine gun and a 12.7mm air defence machine gun. A 5.45mm AKS-74 assault rifle is carried on a storage rack.

SELF-PROTECTION

The T-90 tank is protected by both conventional armour-plating and explosive reactive armour (ERA).

The T-90 is fitted with the Shtora-1 defensive aids suite which is produced by Electronintorg of Russia. This system includes infrared jammer, laser warning system with four laser warning receivers, grenade discharging system which produces an aerosol screen and a computerised control system.

It is also fitted with NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) protection equipment.

FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION

The T-90S has the 1A4GT integrated fire control system (IFCS) which is automatic but with manual override for the commander. The IFCS contains the gunner's 1A43 day fire control system, gunner's TO1-KO1 thermal imaging sight which has a target identification range of 1.2km to 1.5km and commander's PNK-S sight.

The gunner's 1A43 day FCS comprises: 1G46 day sight/rangefinder with missile guidance channel, 2E42-4 armament stabiliser, 1V528 ballistic computer and DVE-BS wind gauge.

The commander's PNK-4S sight includes a TKN-4S (Agat-S) day/night sight which has identification ranges of 800m (day) and 700m (night).

The driver is equipped with a TVN-5 infrared night viewer.

PROPULSION

The T-90S has a liquid-cooled V-84MS 618kW (840 hp) four-stroke V-12 piston engine. This engine can be fuelled by T-2 or TS-1 kerosene and A-72 benzine, in addition to diesel. The tank can carry up to 1,600 litres of fuel in the main fuel tanks and fuel drums. The fuel tanks are reinforced with armour plating.

The tank is provided with a snorkel for deep fording and can ford 5m of water with equipment which can be deployed in 20 minutes.

The mechanical transmission includes primary reduction gear, two planetary final gearboxes and two planetary final drives. The running gear features torsion bar suspension with hydraulic shock absorbers at one, two and six road wheel stations and tracks with rubber-metallic pin hinges.

4 posted on 07/14/2004 9:41:50 AM PDT by Restore (As in: "Restore the Constitution!")
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To: Restore

"The T-90S gun can also fire the 9M119 Refleks (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank guided missile system"

This is an interesting deviation from NATO tanks which cannot fire a ATGM. The US used to have the Sheridan and a version of the M60 with a gun that fired a missile but that weapon system was a big disappointment. THe US and Germany worked on a tank that was suppose to fire a missile but that program, as almost all multinational tank programs was cancelled. The 125 MM gun is larger than the standard 120 MM NATO tank gun. I am not sure if the T90 had special armor like NATO tanks which involve use of ceramics and other materials.


5 posted on 07/14/2004 9:59:31 AM PDT by mkj6080
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To: mkj6080

The Russians have always been good with armor, most likely they will be fitted with ERA (explosive reactive armor) which is a bunch of stick-on explosive boxes that defeat the kinds of armor-piercing warheads called HEAT rounds. Although the Russians claim to have ERA variants that work against our 120mm APFSDS shells (basically, a depleted uranium dart an inch and a half in diameter moving 5,000 fps), we've never come up against anything that will stop the main anti-tank round from an M1A2, and no M1A2 has been knocked out by a frontal hit by another tank. Ever.

Ultimately, the extra 5mm on the Russian tanks doesn't count for much, the US wins tank battles by seeing the enemy first, hitting them with APFSDS from up to 1,000m beyond their maximum range, and being able to survive any frontal hits the enemy can dish out. Our fire-control systems are better and our crews are much, much better trained.

The problem with the gun-missile system you describe is that if you're in a T-90, my 120mm main gun will fire three times and probably hit you with the first two before your single missile flies to my position. 1200m/s beats a 450m/s flight time any day. It may be helpful against helicopters, but again, the helicopter will be replying in kind. We don't have to worry about that because we own the air before we fight, and the M2 Bradleys that accompany the M1A2s have 25mm chain guns will do simply unspeakable things to an airframe.


6 posted on 07/14/2004 10:57:18 AM PDT by GradientEcho
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To: All

So the Russians will sell to both India and Pakistan. Interesting strategy. Will push India to seek weapons from the US in the future since Russia won't be the trusted friend anymore.


7 posted on 07/14/2004 11:29:31 AM PDT by razoroccam (read Germs of War to know the real Armageddon)
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To: razoroccam

Interesting point about Russia supplying the same tank to both India and Pakistan. I thought China was the main supplier of arms to Pakistan although the T90 is probably a much better tank that anything in China's arsenal.


8 posted on 07/14/2004 11:31:18 AM PDT by mkj6080
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To: razoroccam

The stategy is real simple, the check cleared. It is all about th benjaimins.


9 posted on 07/14/2004 11:34:23 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Power corrupts..... Absolute power can be fun.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Nice tank .... it's still going to get eaten alive by an Abrams.


10 posted on 07/14/2004 11:48:36 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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To: GradientEcho

I'm impressed by your armor knowledge; thanks very much for your post, very interesting!


11 posted on 07/14/2004 11:58:31 AM PDT by wolficatZ (__><)))*>__\0/___/|___Flipper to the rescue!__)
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To: mkj6080

You are correct - China is the largest arms supplier to Pakistan. But you get what you pay for (keep in mind that WalMart does most of its shopping in China). Pakistan must have figured out that it needs smarter weapons since it is not fighting the Northern Alliance (on behalf of the Taliban) anymore.


12 posted on 07/14/2004 1:46:20 PM PDT by razoroccam (read Germs of War to know the real Armageddon)
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To: razoroccam

Yup. That Chinese stuff is crap.


13 posted on 07/14/2004 1:48:25 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The A-10 says, HMMMMMM, Dinner!

14 posted on 07/14/2004 1:56:00 PM PDT by COEXERJ145
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To: razoroccam

Actually speaking-this is one of many contradictory reports on this deal.There's not been much solid stuff on this in the Indian papers or any reaction from the Indian government.So what I think(& a lot of experts r saying) is that this is essentially a deal to supply spare parts(Engines,chassis etc) to Pakistan's fleet of 320 T-80UD(predecessor of sorts to the T-90) tanks,which it acquired from Ukraine about 7 years ago.

The T-80 being a Soviet system in every sense,was shared by Russia&Ukraine.The Russians refused to sell engines,optronic sights etc to Pakis-leading to deal to getting bogged down.Moreover Pakistan has an "indegnious" tank programme going on known as the AL-KHALID, which seems to be a straight rip-off of some Chinese tank.

Pakistan, as most of you know is rather tight on funds(has to beg to Washington or to its Arab bros)-so buying a 3rd tank variant of pretty much equal standard makes no sense whatso ever.

India &Russia have a variety of joint-programmes going on-a supersonic cruise missile,5th generation fighter(supposedly to be a competitor to the JSF),a medium transport aircraft&numerous naval&aerial systems .So the Russians would have to be out of their minds to sell tanks&that too 300 of them to the Pakis.

So in short-this is nothing but some wierd spin .


15 posted on 07/15/2004 1:31:02 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What you say makes sense. Like politics, armament traders make strange bedfellows.


16 posted on 07/15/2004 6:38:30 AM PDT by razoroccam (read Germs of War to know the real Armageddon)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; razoroccam
Russia is melding simple economics with balanced geo-politic stratagems.

For example: It sells the SU-30 to China and India (both nations are not exactly bossom buds), sells tanks to Pakistan and India (again, don't expect the two to be eating roti and sambusa together anytime soon), and Putin even offered to sell some KILO class D-E subs to Taiwan (via the US), when it sells the same KILO class subs to China! And in all those cases Russia gets serious money.

Now, at first glance it would seem Russia is nothing more than a P.I.M.P and nothing more. But then the geo-political facets come into play if someone looks at the intricacies involved.

For example the Sukhoi sales. The Chinese Su-30 version is the MKK (SU-30MKK). The Indian version is the SU-30MKI. Now, the Indian MKI is far superior to the Chinese MKK, primarily because Russia and India need (or will need) each other in the future as China's power becomes more concrete. Same thing with the tank situation. The sales to India are the best the Russians can do. In some aspects even better than the actual tanks used in the vast majority of the Russian armored forces. Why? Because Russia and India have a very strong agreement. The tanks sold to Pakistan may look similar to the Indian ones, but a fight between India and Pakistan would show some differences. And if we (the US) accepts Putin's offer (to sell KILOs to the US, which would then sell them to Taiwan) one aspect of that sale would be that the KILOs would be outfitted with advanced US sensor suites. The Chinese KILOs are very quiet, but the proposed Taiwanese KILOs (if the deal goes through) would also be very quiet, but with more advanced sensor and sonar suites.

Hence, Russia gets its coffers filled with cash and currency, and at the same time it still helps allies like India.

Now, it is a balancing act. Especially with China (since China's intellectual capital is increasing in leaps and bounds, and soon they will be able to upgrade the stuff Russia sells them and make it less 'monkey model.') But as long as it lasts it is a very interesting strategy, and one that should work until Russia starts to totally tap into revenues that should start coming from its oil and gas reserves (Russia has 350 billion barrels of the stuff ....50 billion more than Saudi Arabia).

Hence, there is the reason the Indians are not up in arms over the Paki sales.

17 posted on 07/15/2004 9:44:03 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: spetznaz

Well what u say is exactly correct-but i still don't see the Pakis as a big league Russian arms buyer.What makes India&China(&for that matter Taiwan) attractive customers is that they have more than enuf cash to splurge on weapons-the Pakis dont have that.

Their economy has been on life support for nearly 10years-surviving with handouts from the US,Japan,Saudi Arabia,UAE&its own citizens living in the Gulf.A country like Russia which itself is not overflowing with cash,will not necessarily trust such a nation.
For eg, look at Russia's recent buyers(apart from India&China)-Indonesia,Malaysia,Greece,South Korea,Vietnam,the UAE to name a few-all have decent enough economies.

I can't understand the logic of them buying the T-90 when they operate the T-80(albeit Ukranian variant)-there's not a truckload of difference between the 2&this coupled with Pakistan's own MBT programme makes the chance of 3rd MBT in Paki stables remote.

PS-the one confirmed "weapons"between Pakistan&Russia has been for around 10-15 Mi-17 transport helos.


18 posted on 07/15/2004 10:08:27 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: spetznaz
Russia's foreign military sales came up in a recent Charlie Rose program.
Programs roundtable focus.,,.mostly on Oligarchs..oil..and Putins control.

Russia became #2 last year in foreign weapons sales.
They are in need of modernizing their production sector...so ya..they are at a crossroads now concerning weapons sales as a national return.

Oil/gas sales easily bring in more fiscal return...part of the reason Putin is doing the Tax thingy on Oligarchs and getting state control back in several sectors.
Oligarchs have oil/gas holdings....Putin[The State] owns the pipelines...Putin can turn the tap off if he wishes.

Russia is commited to some 6 Billion in 2005 for their own military....here..upgrading manufacturing - part and parcel of the new weapon systems delivery.

19 posted on 07/15/2004 10:31:23 AM PDT by Light Speed
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To: spetznaz

Very interesting analysis, specially for a 24 year old (won't hold that against you) financial analyst. You may be onto something, but you do need to get your "Samosa" differentiated from "Sambosa", and one doesn't eat Roti with it anyway. Nonetheless, am impressed by your breath of knowledge.
cheers


20 posted on 07/15/2004 11:30:49 AM PDT by razoroccam (read Germs of War to know the real Armageddon)
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To: GradientEcho

The T-90 has a Russian APFSDS shell. The real difference is optics. We can identifiy them from beyond 4km, they cannot. We still have first shot, first kill, but combat is often chaotic and identificationmay take time, especially since blue on blue incidents are seriously frowned upon. At 2KM or less, I would preffer that our enemies have a t-72, T-55 or worse.


21 posted on 07/19/2004 1:50:22 AM PDT by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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