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Early (Ancient) Hair Sample Raises Questions
Indian Country ^ | 726-2000

Posted on 07/14/2004 8:21:37 PM PDT by blam

Early hair sample raises questions

Posted: July 26, 2000 - 12:00am EST

WOODBURN, Ore. (AP) - Under a small Woodburn city park may lie the answer to who are the earliest Oregonians yet discovered.

Scientists have found an ancient strand of hair in Woodburn's Front Street Park - a human hair that may have been left behind before modern American Indians settled in North America a few thousand years ago.

The hair, found in a core sample during a June 1999 dig, could be one of the oldest found in the Western United States, said Alison Stenger, director of the Institute for Archaeological Studies.

"We came out with a dirt clod and inside the dirt clod was a human hair 14 inches long," she said. "It was so old there was no pigment."

While scientists have yet to determine its age, the layer of soil it was in dates back 11,000 to 12,000 years.

The soil beneath the park is part of an ancient buried wetland, one of three being studied by Stenger and scientists from the University of Oregon and Oregon State University. The other sites are Mammoth Park, adjacent to Woodburn High School, and Legion Park, near Highway 214.

The hair raises the question of just who peopled North America first.

Some scientists are beginning to believe the first people may not have genetically resembled American Indians.

"I'm absolutely convinced that there were multiple populations here and the hair represents one of those populations," Stenger said. Those populations could have been here long before modern American Indians appeared, she said.

Given current theories that all humans migrated from elsewhere, the term "Native American" could be an oxymoron, said Cleone Hawkinson, a physical anthropologist with Friends of America's Past.

And the fact that a population lived in the New World once doesn't mean their descendants exist today. "The hardest thing for people to understand is how long ago this was. There was a high probability that groups would die out," she said.

Within weeks, scientists will know whether the hair is related to modern Native American gene types, said Lori Baker, doctoral student in anthropology who specializes in ancient DNA testing.

"There are five founding haplotypes among Native Americans. A haplotype is a type of DNA pattern," she said. "What I'm doing now is trying to determine if this hair has any of those (patterns)."

There a chance, however, the hair could have come from a lost civilization - off the DNA map. "It could be that we had other people in the Americas that weren't related to modern Native Americans at all," Baker said.

Because she has to essentially destroy the hair to extract its DNA, she has to be selective about how many - and which - DNA patterns she can test for. "What I'll do first is compare them to ones most likely - ancient Asian haplotypes," she said.

Scientists have long known Woodburn may hold treasures of the past. In the 1950s, a scientist by the name of E.J. Packard began to recognize the Mill Creek flood plain near Woodburn High School as a paleontological gold mine because of the buried network of ancient wetlands. The anaerobic bog has a neutral acidity level, which preserves otherwise perishable remains such as strands of human hair, Stenger said.

But the site remained untouched until 1987, when a utility trench uncovered scores of bones from animals that lived thousands of years ago - bones of sloth, mammoth, horse, bear, giant bison and dire wolf from thousands of years ago.

Scientists believe the Woodburn area may have among the best preserved ancient layers of soil in the Pacific Northwest.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; dna; early; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; hair; history; mtdna; questions; raises; sample
It's been four years. Does anyone know what were the results of these tests on the hair.
1 posted on 07/14/2004 8:21:41 PM PDT by blam
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To: FairOpinion; Coyoteman
GGG Ping.

Coyoteman, do you know anything about this?

2 posted on 07/14/2004 8:23:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Don't know but there is other research that has been supressed by orthodox archeology that show there were ancient civilizations on the continent up to a half-million years ago.


3 posted on 07/14/2004 8:25:25 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: blam
Some scientists are beginning to believe the first people may not have genetically resembled American Indians.

Oh, oh. Better destroy the evidence REAL quick, especially if the DNA proves Caucasian. Look what happened with the Kennewick Man - the Feds destroyed the area while the Indians screamed that it was one of them and should be interred again, no questions asked.

Otherwise the guilt trip laid on us for "stealing" land from the original owners goes out the window, along with all that lovely taxpayer money.

4 posted on 07/14/2004 8:27:15 PM PDT by Oatka
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To: blam
That's what I hate about digging holes; all the hair down there. ;-)

No, seriously . . . Why didn't the hair decompose? I could see it surviving in ice maybe, like the hair on a frozen woolly mammoth.

Just asking. Seems so unlikely to me.

5 posted on 07/14/2004 8:30:58 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
Why didn't the hair decompose?

From the article: "The anaerobic bog has a neutral acidity level, which preserves otherwise perishable remains such as strands of human hair, Stenger said." Obviously, you didn't read to the end.

6 posted on 07/14/2004 8:35:01 PM PDT by John Valentine ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: blam
Hey buddy, Woodburn is just 'down the road apiece' from me and I haven't read a thing about this. It is interesting tho'.

Nam Vet

7 posted on 07/14/2004 8:35:51 PM PDT by Nam Vet (Arab nutball bumper sticker ..... "My other wife is a goat")
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To: blam
Someone should just call her. I will if I think of it. Here's a later story that places the age of the hairs at 10,200 years:

Archaeological Dig

8 posted on 07/14/2004 8:37:21 PM PDT by Bernard Marx (Is Karl Marx's grave a Communist plot?)
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To: Rennes Templar; blam
research that has been supressed by orthodox archeology that show there were ancient civilizations on the continent up to a half-million years ago

Hey, Rennes, I am one of those archaeologists you're talking about and we're not supressing anything!

As for the article you posted, blam, I emailed an archaeologist in that area when I saw this here a year or so ago but got no answer. I have emailed him again so maybe I can find out what this is all about.

Current research is supporting the early coastal migration theory, that suggests different origins for the early coastal cultures and those who came somewhat later via the land bridge through central Canada. Details are still being worked out (as usual), but mtDNA is starting to point in that direction as well.

9 posted on 07/14/2004 8:37:38 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I'm an archaeologist; I work for a living!)
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To: John Valentine
"The anaerobic bog has a neutral acidity level, which preserves otherwise perishable remains such as strands of human hair, Stenger said."

which makes this observation from the article interesting: "It was so old there was no pigment." (Sounds blond to me, or possibly grey hair - like the person whos head it came from was grey?)

10 posted on 07/14/2004 8:40:21 PM PDT by NotQuiteCricket
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To: blam
A good Hair Week In Mongolia
11 posted on 07/14/2004 8:40:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: Oatka
" Look what happened with the Kennewick Man - the Feds destroyed the area while the Indians screamed that it was one of them and should be interred again, no questions asked. "

Kennewick Man has not been destroyed, just the site where he was found. A judge recently ruled that the scientists can study him...the Indians are appealing, again.

12 posted on 07/14/2004 8:43:42 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
http://pub141.ezboard.com/fxprojectforumfrm11.showMessage?topicID=160.topic

Interview William Orr, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus in Geology, University of Oregon, and Director of the State Museum of Paleontology, Eugene, Oregon: "You can identify human hair, forensic criminologist types, can identify human hair from a single strand because of the granules and color and all that kind of stuff. You can distinguish human hair from all other hair just from a little piece of follicle. Strand of sixteen-inch-long, dark, human hair retrieved from the Woodburn, Oregon Ice Age archaeological site. DNA analyses of hair follicles found at the site have so far failed to find a match with any known human racial type living on earth today. Photograph © 2001 by Alison Stenger, Ph.D. We found several strands of human hair, long pieces a foot and a half long, black, long pieces of hair. And then if you can find the root of the hair that still has a follicle, you can do DNA on it. So researchers immediately sent the (Ice Age) hair off to a lab and they began to extract the DNA. Some of it was not so good, but a lot of it was well preserved in the oxygen-poor bogs of Woodburn. The geneticists found the hair didn't match any Asian hair DNA. It didn't match African, European. It didn't match anything. Dogma would be that Ice Age humans along the west coast of the United States would be from a Japanese population that is alleged to have come over the Bering Sea back twelve to thirteen thousand years ago. So right now we have DNA we can't track. We can't figure out what it's from. Apparently from a population we don't have today. They are gone. And it's only 11,000 or 12,000 years old. About that time period, there was a huge crisis in animals. The larger animals all disappeared and they disappeared in a wave. They disappeared first in British Columbia and then in Washington, Oregon, California and right on down. Some were still around until 10,000 years ago in Tierra del Fuego. So, it was like a wave of extinction at the rate of about 10 miles per year.

13 posted on 07/14/2004 8:45:45 PM PDT by NotQuiteCricket
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To: Bernard Marx
"Someone should just call her. I will if I think of it. Here's a later story that places the age of the hairs at 10,200 years:"

Thanks for the update, it's still two years ago though. Please call...and let me know the results. Thanks.

14 posted on 07/14/2004 8:55:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: NotQuiteCricket
"The geneticists found the hair didn't match any Asian hair DNA. It didn't match African, European. It didn't match anything. "

Excellent info, thanks.

I wonder if it has been compared to the DNA of Kennewick Man? Kennewick Man's DNA points to the Ainu in Japan in origin.

15 posted on 07/14/2004 8:59:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: NotQuiteCricket
DNA analyses of hair follicles found at the site have so far failed to find a match with any known human racial type living on earth today

This is interesting.

16 posted on 07/14/2004 9:05:38 PM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: blam
"We came out with a dirt clod and inside the dirt clod was a human hair 14 inches long," she said. "It was so old there was no pigment."

No pigment? Is this another blond joke?

A blond woman's house catches on fire. She calls the Fire Department...

Blond: "Send help! My house is on fire!"

Dispatcher: "How do we get there?"

Blond: "Duh! Big red truck!"

Thank you. Thank you very much...

17 posted on 07/14/2004 9:08:37 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina (Past performance is no guarantee of future results... I hope.)
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To: struwwelpeter
Maybe he's related to Mungo Man in Australia.
18 posted on 07/14/2004 9:11:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I wonder if it has been compared to the DNA of Kennewick Man?

Last I heard, they were unable to obtain any DNA from Kennewick Man. Maybe with the new studies they will. Would be interesting to compare with Arlington Springs Woman, but so far they have no DNA there either.

We live in interesting times. Thirty years ago some folks had everything figured out, but now things are up in the air again. That's what keeps us going! You never know what the next dig will produce.

19 posted on 07/14/2004 9:20:30 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I'm an archaeologist; I work for a living!)
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To: John Valentine

Yep, skimmed it and missed that part, thanks.


20 posted on 07/14/2004 9:21:19 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: blam
Kennewick Man's DNA points to the Ainu in Japan in origin

Ainu it, Ai just nu it.

21 posted on 07/14/2004 9:30:53 PM PDT by Migraine
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To: blam
an ancient buried wetland

Corps of Engineers might be interested in who filled these wetlands if it was done without a permit 12k years ago.

22 posted on 07/14/2004 9:34:52 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Coyoteman
"Last I heard, they were unable to obtain any DNA from Kennewick Man. Maybe with the new studies they will. Would be interesting to compare with Arlington Springs Woman, but so far they have no DNA there either."

I expect Arlington Springs Woman, Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man and Buhl Woman are all from a common group.

What do you make of the 8,000 year old bog mummies (Windover) found in Florida? Last I saw was a TV special covering the discovery and some PhD said the DNA indicated they were Europeans. (Whatever European means?)

23 posted on 07/14/2004 9:39:02 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I didn't mean to indicate that the skull was destroyed, only the site.

A Canadian friend taped some CBC tapes which had a very good pro and con discussion about examining the skull, and IMHO, the pros came out miles ahead. The antis used mostly emotional arguments (where have we heard that before?).

I was glad to see the jufges decision. There's a lot of evidence that indicates someone other than Indians were here a long time ago and it ticks me off when this kind of history is hidden/destroyed for Political Correctness.


24 posted on 07/15/2004 8:16:46 AM PDT by Oatka
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To: Bernard Marx

We have some DNA results.


25 posted on 07/15/2004 8:30:38 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Maybe if they keep digging they'll find a casino.


26 posted on 07/15/2004 8:37:43 AM PDT by Nick Danger (spammersharvestthis@127.0.0.1)
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To: blam

Interesting how little publicity the finding generated -- NOT!! Thanks for the update. Political Correctness will do us all in.


27 posted on 07/15/2004 9:20:03 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Is Karl Marx's grave a Communist plot?)
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To: Bernard Marx
"Interesting how little publicity the finding generated.

I'm suprised the Sasquash ("Big Foot") folks didn't jump on this. There's their proof that something 'strange' was trekking around Oregon.

28 posted on 07/15/2004 9:28:42 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Thanks Blam, another older topic that never made it in.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
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The GGG Digest
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29 posted on 10/05/2004 11:10:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam
I'm suprised the Sasquash ("Big Foot") folks didn't jump on this. There's their proof that something 'strange' was trekking around Oregon.

I was thinking the same thing. Hair from a Gigantopithecus ought to be fairly similar to our own.

-ccm

30 posted on 06/15/2005 11:45:14 PM PDT by ccmay (Question Diversity)
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To: ccmay

Is there a local contact in Woodburn about this site? I'm sure like to see the place, I'm nearby in Molalla.

My email is leeper@molalla.net


31 posted on 09/04/2005 10:45:05 AM PDT by Jarhead1
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Consider yourself spanked!

OK, it was funny but older than dirt. :)

32 posted on 09/04/2005 10:46:49 AM PDT by LibKill (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

33 posted on 01/20/2006 9:22:29 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: blam

The one that really blows the mind is the Bat Creek stone found in Tennessee. This one is quietly ignored, even though the ramifications are huge.

http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/batcrk.html


34 posted on 01/20/2006 9:49:03 AM PST by frgoff
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To: Rennes Templar
Don't know but there is other research that has been supressed by orthodox archeology that show there were ancient civilizations on the continent up to a half-million years ago.

You're aware that there is no evidence of homo sapiens prior to 200,000 years ago and that the oldest evidence of any civilization anywhere only goes back about 10,000 years?

I don't suppose you have a link???

35 posted on 01/20/2006 9:58:00 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/


36 posted on 01/20/2006 10:14:12 PM PST by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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37 posted on 02/07/2009 2:52:14 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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