Been here in Vermont for more than 20 years. And a lot of other expat NYers are here, too.
Posted on 07/16/2004 9:19:13 AM PDT by presidio9
Quality of life. It's the holy grail of the suburbs, the main reason generations of New Yorkers left the five boroughs in recent decades and flooded Long Island.
But, in a new twist, more tri-state-area residents are steering clear of Nassau and Suffolk due to such quality-of-life complaints as traffic and high housing costs, according to a new study from Rutgers University.
Now, for the first time in 30 years, the city is attracting more residents, jobs and housing - a shift that suggests New York's suburbs may have diminishing appeal, according to "The Beginning of the End of Suburbia?", which looks at trends from 1969 through 2001 using government statistics.
"This relentless suburbanization has reached its low tide and the core areas are starting to be attractive," said Joseph J. Seneca, a public policy professor who co-authored the study. "We attribute that to the enormous strains on infrastructure experienced by the suburbs."
Between 1969 and 1996, Long Island added residents and jobs, and per capita incomes grew, far outpacing the declining city, according the study. In Suffolk, for example, jobs more than doubled while Brooklyn's shrunk by 13 percent.
But by the end of the last century, the suburban numbers were dipping as the city's rose. The data show that Long Island and New York City now are growing at about the same rate.
Between 1990 and 2001, the population in the city grew by nearly 10 percent compared with 6.6 percent on Long Island.
"This is the rebalancing of a very disparate growth pattern," Seneca said. "It indicates a shift in preferences for residences and businesses."
Increasingly, people want to live near their jobs and near the city's cultural outlets, he said.
The city life
But why choose the noisy, fast-paced city over a serene, landscaped suburb?
Many new immigrants to the region move directly to the suburbs in search of jobs and to be near already established family members. However, most still settle in New York City, swelling population rolls there.
In addition, aging baby boomers whose children are grown are increasingly attracted to the city for its museums, theaters and restaurants.
"I had one client, a retired widower, who moved from Patchogue [to the Upper East Side] in the last year," said Marc Lawrence, a real estate broker with the Corcoran Group in Manhattan. "He was finding he was reverse commuting for a lot of social opportunities here" in the city.
Another factor: burdensome work commutes. As suburbanites have moved farther from congested work areas in search of their dream homes, commuting times have mushroomed. For instance, Census 2000 data show that the average Long Islander spends 33 minutes traveling to work, three minutes more than in 1990.
"In this country, we have a history of picking up and moving if we don't like it the way it is in one place," said Valerie Scopaz, director of planning in Southold Town. "We're running out of places to move to."
Island appeal
For some, living far from work is still worth it. For 20 years, Gerry Bringmann, a construction manager, has commuted two hours in each direction on the Long Island Rail Road and city subways from his home in Patchogue to lower Manhattan.
"The city is great Monday to Friday, but I wouldn't want to be here Saturday and Sunday," he said, noting that, like many of his neighbors, his family loves Long Island's open spaces and natural beauty. But, he added, "Believe me, spending 20 hours a week on the train isn't always great."
(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...
Unfortunately, it seems as times as though about a million New Yorkers followed me down here shortly afterwards.
Little mention of crime and its impact on these population shifts.
No mention of the racial dynamics involved in these population shifts, a huge omission without which no discussion of these shifts is honest.
No real mention of the impact of immigration. Mexican dishwashers don't have the choice of living in suburbia.
Strong Island is a barren hellhole.
I'd rather live in Jersey.
As Yogi Berra would put it, nobody goes there any more because there are too many people there and housing prices are too high.
I got out when I went to college in '81. Been here in Vermont for more than 20 years. And a lot of other expat NYers are here, too.
My parents are still there, and now my old town is turning into a slum. It stinks.
LQ
Glossing over the quaility of life/crime/race/cost issues, no mention of the decline of specific local industries (aerospace) or corporate scandals (Computer Associates)...
I assume this is just fodder to document the paper's circulation woes/scandal.
I'm not sure what Econ books their using at RU these days, but housing cost don't sky rocket if demand is decrease. (relatively stable supply + growing demand = higher costs)
It's too freaking expensive, and prices are cooling off a bit. Period.
Everybody's properties DOUBLED in value the last 10 years! It's a return to relative normalcy from insanity.
BAsic economics at work. Why buy a $850,000 2 bedroom raised ranch on LI, while working a $60,000 a yerar job. There's just nothing left over to pay the bills.
2 hours each way for a commute? Sickeningly stupid. I left boston because of a 1 hour commute. Now mine's 8 minutes.
I would almost rather live in Baghdad than on Long Island. The biggest problem with Nassau and Suffolk Counties is that you are literally trapped on an island (albeit a very large one) -- and anytime you want to travel to "the rest of America" you have to go through New York City on some of the worst highways in the country.
When you buy a house in many suburbs, the issue isn't whether it costs $300,000 or $600,000 . . . it's whether it costs $2,000 per month or $2,500 per month.
I'd love to see a couple of bridges built across the LI Sound - say one road bridge north to I-91 in New Haven and a road/railroad bridge northeast to Rhode Island near Westerly across the little islands in between. That would make a big difference in traffic patterns around the entire NYC area.
I can say from first-hand experience that there are parts of Long Island on the North Shore especially that have never been this desirable to people with money. Realtor ads are through the roof in the local papers. People buy nice houses just for the property they sit on, then either tear them down or triple them in size with additions (I'm not kidding, that is literally true).
I will admit that it also is true that, relative to the city, Long Island is becoming more pricey. But it has always been that way. When you made your stake in the city, you moved out to Long Island, not vice versa. People 50-70 years ago made the trip to LI homes that now are considered completely unacceptable, and considered it a huge rise in their standard of living. Their descendants now can't afford to upgrade or even maintain those homes and are scooting.
There is nothing new going on, except that whereas in the 1940s and earlier there was still cheap open land to build on, now there is no cheap land practically anywhere. So, the newcomers have to force old-timers off the island, which wasn't the case in 1939 or 1946. Many of the old-timers are being squeezed unmercifully by the rising prices and forced to reverse the trip from Brooklyn that their grandparents made, or to strike out to new, cheaper and growing places like the Southwest (I know a few of those folks personally).
I like a slower pace, friendly people and fresh air!
Been here in Vermont for more than 20 years. And a lot of other expat NYers are here, too.
Unfortunately, the renewed popularity of cities like NY, SF, etc. shows that we're fading away from ever-dropping birth rates. Notice that it's the late-middle-aged who are moving (back) to cities. Where are new, young families moving? (What new, young families, IOW?)
Long Island beaches are quite nice.
There's also a "brain drain" of young kids who graduate from decent colleges and never return to Lawnguyland, or only return until they can get a job or into grad school out of town.
Even though I'm in Manhattan, I'm still quite involved with the LI alumnae club of my college. And in the more than a decade in which I've been with them, I've almost always been the youngest active member -- and I'm 38! And currently, I'm the only one younger than 40.
Another "Lawnguyland SUCKS" ping! :)
Lots of immigrants to Lawnguyland from South and Central America in the last decade or so. In fact, there have been problems with Salvadoran gangs in Brentwood, Central Islip and Hempstead.
A business associate of mine abandoned Long Island 10 years ago and moved his manufacturing facilities, engineering and complete office staff to Florida.
The last I heard there were no regrets.
Take out the "almost" and I wholeheartedly agree!
The biggest problem with Nassau and Suffolk Counties is that you are literally trapped on an island (albeit a very large one) -- and anytime you want to travel to "the rest of America" you have to go through New York City on some of the worst highways in the country.
The biggest problem, IMO, is that Lawnguyland now has much of the problems of the city (congestion, crime, etc.) with few or none of the advantages. It's also a pain in the ass to get to Manhattan from Lawnguyland, and vice versa.
Doesn't seem to matter where you go. It's like Danl Boone said, no elbow room around here.
We can talk about racial steering, racial discrimination in housing on Long Island if you want. I know about it personally. Also, it's not Mexicans here it's illegal Salvadoreans,Chinese and Eastern Europeans in that order and the illegal Irish waaaaaaay out on the Island because the snooty libs don't like brown people.
So what's new? The sun rises in the east and LI gets bashed. A lot of it justly deserved however with the taxes.
I'll add that I love Nassau County Police. For the amount of money they get paid, I definately see the results.
well let's not get carried away here, its not a "hellhole". but there are some trends that are making it worse. the public schools are out of control, school taxes rise at 3x the rate of inflation, and it never ends. money is being flat out stolen, the Roslyn case gets alot of attention because it involves millions, but the same thing happens in every district.
the demographic shift is the big thing. the economic equation here - high home prices, high taxes, leads to multi-family and extended family occupancy of what were once single family homes. that is the #1 trend I see, a home that was once occupied by a nuclear family - now has multiple families, or a multi-tiered family (aunts, uncles, etc). the only way to get by taking the low pay service jobs is to have 3+ wage earners in the household. and homes that do have nuclear families - tack on an illegal rental to make ends meet. the end result = population here is surging, more cars, more traffic, etc. but so long as the government and public school monster is fed with tax money, no one in government cares.
the other shift is cultural - gangs and crime are surging. I hardly ever go to Roosevelt Field (the biggest shopping mall in Nassau) anymore, and forget about going in the evenings when school is out - the place looks like a scene out of the movie Colors.
But our family has been here since 1938, we'll stick it out.
But I will say this to those folks commenting on LI - the problems we have here, are coming to where you are eventually. if you live in a metro-area suburb, they are all starting to look alike in the US.
LOL! I think the NCPD is the most overpaid, useless bunch of donut inhalers!
Yeah but some of them are really cute ;-)
1 million and 2 - my cousin and his wife, both Kerry supporters, just left to go to Williamsburgh.
Oh, yes it is!
For one thing, the alleged social life out there mostly consists of getting drunk and then driving.
Yes, but they're useless in an emergency.
My city already went through that, but thanks to Rudy Giuliani, we're much better off these days. :)
When WLIE 540 was Long Island Talk a LI politician actually said illegal renting is ok because LIers need to pay their mortgages. Plus, the public schools, at least in Nassau County, are getting overrun by the refugees from the NYC public school system.
some of the best in the country actually, it goes un-noticed in most surveys - the sand is so white and clean (yes, its clean).
you can't compare it to Manhattan.
you can meet some very nice people waiting for 2 hours to get into the Cheescake Factory!
I thought everyone in Long Island moved here to eastern North Carolina.
That's true ;-)
good luck my friend!
And Florida
".......escape Long Island to get down to Virginia about ten years ago"
Shhhhhhhh! We can't do anything about the Yankees that are already here, but we sure don't need to encourage any more! ;^)
I know -- that's why I'm back in the city! :)
Unfortunately, it seems as times as though about a million New Yorkers followed me down here shortly afterwards.
So you're one of those guys who followed me.
Lawn Guyland's heydey was from the late 40s to the late 70s/early 80s when it became Buttafuoco land.
BTW: Housing costs in NYC are sky high now, so that few immigrants can afford to settle anywhere but in the far reaches of Queens. There are now Mexican dishwashers in suburbia, where rents are cheaper. This is how it is in Metro NYC anyway.
Funny, I used to live very close to Green Acres and when that place started going to hell in the late 80s, we made the longer drive to Roosevelt Field to go shopping.
Roosevelt Field has not reached the level of Green Acres yet. There's only been one shooting :P
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