Planned Parenthood's 'Nobody's Fool' Conference Pushes Pornographic Sex Book on Children

Yahoo News ^ | July 16, 2004

[Between the Lines]

"Planned Parenthood has continued its assault on the lives and sensibilities of our children by conducting its 'Nobody's Fool' 2004 conference in Waco, Texas, yesterday," said Jim Sedlak, executive director of American Life League's STOPP International. "From start to finish, this conference was a thinly veiled attack on parental rights, public morality, and the health and well-being of our children."

Parents were not allowed to attend this conference with their children; it was open exclusively to children in the fifth through ninth grades (ages 10-14). "Planned Parenthood barred mothers and fathers from attending the actual sessions because Planned Parenthood knows that parental participation would have hampered the its efforts to indoctrinate these children into its world of lies and propaganda," observed Sedlak.

Children in grades seven through nine also received a free copy of the book, It's Perfectly Normal. "This so-called 'educational text' is nothing more than pornography in comic book form," stated Sedlak. "Planned Parenthood believes that it has the right to decide if our 12-14-year-old children should own a manual that contains detailed explanations on how to perform sexual acts and masturbation. These directions are accompanied by sexually explicit line drawings. This is irresponsible at best and child abuse at worst."

STOPP International has worked closely over the past several years with Pro-Life Waco to reduce Planned Parenthood's influence on their community. Sedlak added, "We are proud to continue our work with Pro-Life Waco to put an end to these atrocities. Pro- Life Waco has been a stalwart guardian of traditional family values in their community."

According to Sedlak, this problem will persist "until parents and all people of good will across the nation stand together to oppose Planned Parenthood's continued assault on our families and children."

For more information on American Life League's STOPP International and its efforts to combat Planned Parenthood's agenda, visit http://www.all.org/stopp.

Contact: Joe Giganti of the American Life League's STOPP International, 703-928-9695 or jgiganti@all.org

[BenLurkin]

"Parents were not allowed to attend this conference with their children; . . ."

Only a FOOL would let their child go to such a thing!

[Lunatic Fringe]

Why do I get the feeling that this group's definition of "pornography" is quite subjective...?

[MEGoody]

There are a couple of things that aren't clear.

Where was this conference held?

Did parents have to give permission for their children to attend?

How did kids obtain the 'free books.'?

[MEGoody]

"Why do I get the feeling that this group's definition of "pornography" is quite subjective...?"

Isn't everyone's?

[Lunatic Fringe]

An example of the "pornography" can be seen at Amazon's website

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1564021599/ref=sib_dp_rdr/102-3117581-4996907#reader-page

These people are over reacting...

[bimboeruption]

"Parents were not allowed to attend this conference with their children; it was open exclusively to children in the fifth through ninth grades (ages 10-14). 'Planned Parenthood barred mothers and fathers from attending the actual sessions because Planned Parenthood knows that parental participation would have hampered the its efforts to indoctrinate these children into its world of lies and propaganda,' observed Sedlak."

These kids are too young to drive, how did they get to the conference? Was it was held at their school?

How did Planned Parenthood keep parents from attending? Were the parents informed about it?

I need more info.

Planned Parenthood is America's largest and most efficient baby-killing machine. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past them.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I like the ittle "bird" and "bee" in this book...

[smith288]

Is there more than 1 page to the book?

Why cant parents attend?

[DirtyHarryY2K]

If you think that is a travesty just wait until homosexual rights activists groups like GLSEN have their way, You ain't seen nothing yet!

Kids get graphic instruction in homosexual sex

[Lunatic Fringe]

Why cant parents attend?

Were your parents at your sex-ed class in junior high? Parents are asked not to attend in order to prevent their children from being embarrassed.

Again... I think this press release went way over the top in calling this book "pornographic." It was problem written by some uptight Jesus Freak....

[Between the Lines]

A related article:

Puberty seminar in Waco fuels debate over sex-ed programs

By ANGELA K. BROWN
Associated Press Writer

WACO, Texas ? Taking her two teenage daughters to a sex-education seminar Thursday, Marilynn Dieterich walked by about 40 protesters and few dozen large red signs declaring "Stop Planned Promiscuity."

One of the Pro-Life Waco members handed Dieterich a pamphlet saying the Planned Parenthood-sponsored conference for fifth- through ninth-graders used sexually explicit materials.

"It gave me second thoughts about what I was doing, but I thought, `No, I'm doing the right thing.' Kids aren't babies; they're old enough," said Dieterich, smiling at her 13- and 14-year-old daughters.

About 350 children attended the Nobody's Fool program, now in its 15th year. Organizers said attendance didn't drop this year, despite the protesters and recent radio ads lambasting the one-day conference in Waco.

The anti-abortion activists also picketed outside two Waco businesses: one that provided doughnuts and another that donated pens to Nobody's Fool.

"I fully believe in parents' rights, but I don't want other people deceived by what this (seminar) is about," said Pro-Life Waco director John Pisciotta. "I would just like to expose it ? that's all."

The annual seminar is fueling the debate over which sex education programs are most effective: giving youngsters information about contraceptives or urging them to save sex for marriage.

Proponents of each claim success, pointing to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The nation's teen pregnancy rate dropped 25 percent from 1990-99, while the teen abortion rate fell 39 percent.

Teen pregnancy rates also declined in Texas, but the state had the nation's second-highest number of births among girls age 15-17 in 2001, the most recent data available, according to the Texas Department of Health.

Abstinence-only programs, which are favored by President Bush, have been gaining popularity.

Since 1997 Texas has received federal money for such programs, said Mike Messinger, the abstinence education coordinator for the Texas Department of Health. The state gives local control to schools but requires that programs focus on abstinence.

Texas now contracts with 41 companies to provide abstinence education through various curricula. Birth control is discussed, but mostly in terms of the effectiveness of condoms in preventing sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, Messinger said.

Texas received nearly $5 million in federal money for abstinence education this year but gets more funding for family planning and other programs, Messinger said.

Pam Smallwood, executive director of Planned Parenthood of Central Texas, said Nobody's Fool is abstinence-based but that sex issues are discussed at a level appropriate for each age group.

Many youngsters don't feel comfortable asking their parents certain questions and could get wrong answers from their peers, she said.

"Children who receive medically accurate information are the children who are more likely to postpone sexual involvement," Smallwood said.

Corley Sims, 17, said she was enlightened after attending Nobody's Fool when she was younger.

"I've been presented with everything, and I've chosen to be abstinent," Sims said. "Not everyone is going to be abstinent, but at least they'll know how to be safe."

The Nobody's Fool curriculum does not mention abortion, but some youngsters ask questions about it after seeing protesters outside, Smallwood said.

Seventh- through ninth-graders attending Nobody's Fool receive "It's Perfectly Normal," a book with chapters on homosexuality and masturbation, as well as cartoon-type drawings of couples having sex, people examining their naked bodies and a boy putting on a condom.

Pisciotta calls the book a "full-scale assault on Christian sexual morality."

Pro-Life Waco has protested Nobody's Fool for years but got little attention until earlier this year with its Girl Scout cookie boycott. Pisciotta said he wanted to show how the Waco-based Bluebonnet Council of Girl Scouts gave Smallwood an award and had supported Nobody's Fool for years.

As a result, several girls left the Girl Scouts, and their parents have since formed new Christian-based troops. The Bluebonnet Council did not support Nobody's Fool this year.

Josh Wymore, 17, said he never attended the seminar and encouraged his friends not to go because of the materials, which he called too graphic and appalling.

"Abstinence is what God's plan is for everyone's (single) life," Wymore said. "If every (unmarried) person was abstinent, we wouldn't be having these problems with teen pregnancies and diseases."

[smith288]

Were your parents at your sex-ed class in junior high? Parents are asked not to attend in order to prevent their children from being embarrassed.

Again... I think this press release went way over the top in calling this book "pornographic." It was problem written by some uptight Jesus Freak....

Yes, parents were welcome to my sex-ed class. Its public education, parents are free to know what is being taught. I remember my sex-ed class back in the early 90's... Todays information is pornographic to what I was taught then. I guess I can see why Planned Parenthood have problems with parents there, they may actually object to the material.

Oh and why do you say "Jesus freak" like its a bad thing?

[Between the Lines]

An example of the "pornography" can be seen at Amazon's website. These people are over reacting...

Did you read these reviews from people who bought the book?

Great book - even better because it annoys the right wingers, May 7, 2004

Reviewer:
A reader (Wilmington, NC)
Not only does this book serve its purpose of providing children with a sane, fair and intelligent approach to human sexuality, it really, really annoys the right-wing freaks. That alone makes it worth every penny.

Too visual, April 22, 2004

Reviewer:
A reader
This is informative but WAAAAAYYYY to visual. I mean, you don't want to see a naked boy if you're a girl and vice versa for a boy. It's innappropriate for someone who isn't overly to perverted. Ugh.

Preview this book before you hand it over, February 8, 2003

Reviewer:
A reader (Durham, NC United States)
As a sexuality educator I was startled by how explicit this book turned out to be, and how uncomfortable it made me and my 13-year-old son. I vastly prefer "Changing Bodies, Changing Lives", with more breadth, same frankness, less cheekiness.

Problematic, November 28, 2002

Reviewer:
A reader (Cincinnati, USA)
I would seriously caution any parent with a Judaic, Islamic, or Christian worldview to avoid this book. It deals with human sexuality without reference to the institution of marriage, and seeks to establish homosexual relationships as "Perfectly Normal." Candid treatments of normal puberty changes and masturbation are interspersed with illustratoins that some parents may consider inappropriate (including two pictures of a man and woman having intercourse in different positions, pictures of a woman's genitalia, and an illustration depicting the difference between a flacid and erect penis). I think a traditional parent would be wise to deal directly with their own children on the topic of sexuality, rather than introduce literature that would undermine their own worldview.

Too much; too soon, February 25, 2002

Reviewer:
A reader (Kirkland, WA USA)
I did not like this book. I didn't like the very explicit cartoons. The book begins by discussing sexual preferences. A little further, it attempts to describe how an orgasm feels. This is not the place I would want to start from in giving my 9 year old information about her development and sexualilty. I believe that at 9, my daughter needs information about her changing body; not about birth control or sexual preferences. Certainly these (and other) topics are important but they don't need to all come in the same package or at the same time.

Watch out, parents!, June 7, 2001

Reviewer:
A reader (Hudson, WI USA)
Parents beware and caretakers beware! This is a book highly endorsed by Planned Parenthood, geared for 10-year-olds?? The contents of this book should be considered "taking the rights of parents and giving them to Planned Parenthood and liberal activitists." There is no way a 10-year-old should know about homosexuality, abortion, promiscuity, condoms, erections, and injestion of semen. If a 10-year-old is asking questions about injestion of semen, they should be referred for child abuse counseling. If this book is in your schools, get it out. If you're afraid of Joe Camel for influencing your kids on smoking, you should be terrified of this book for your kids for "acceptable" sexual behavior.

It's Perfectly Normal, May 2, 2001

Reviewer:
Pamela H. Wheatley (Dallas, TX)
I was totally shocked by this book. Ann Landers and Dr. T. Terry Brazelton recommend this book for 10 year olds. I think it is nothing but porn for children. It might be okay for High School Seniors that think they know everything, but not for children. Young children are so impressionable and this could give them just too much information. Why would a 10 year old need to know positions?

This is the most inappropriate book I have ever seen., August 2, 1999

Reviewer:
A reader (Franklin Lakes, NJ)
If I could rate this book with negative stars, I would. No 9-12 year old should have to be subjected to the disgusting pictures and information in this book. I'm a grown woman, and I couldn't stomach this book. It trivializes sexuality to a cartoon. It teaches 9 year olds how to put on condoms, not to mention the many other subjects that probably would be edited out of this forum. DO NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILDREN TO BE SUBJECTED TO THIS BOOK. IF YOUR SCHOOL USES IT, FIGHT LIKE MAD TO GET RID OF IT.

[combat_boots]

The goals in action: 

 

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

     

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

  

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

 

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

 

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

 

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

 

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

[ladylib]

Check this out. Sort of graphic.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2004/07/11/1089524083.18121.3063.1853.html;COXnetJSessionID=AzDoqfAd1rikNASHcpFCtSAIqdF1ipp0K1O4nHBkD80hUY3GD1nZ!-1759833846?urac=n&urvf=10897170966520.5024010251367317

I guess parents have a choice -- get it out of their public schools or start their own private schools.

[MacDorcha]

"In just 89 pages, the authors manage to include 71 nude drawings."
thats from belogical.com

i think that for a 7th grader, that is pornographic.

also from the same site

"Children are independent in the view of this book. Parents should butt out."

we're talking about 10 year olds. 10 year olds shouldn't be having sex! not in western culture! it is the responsibility of the parents to talk to the kids!

if it's ANYBODIES right to butt in, it should be the parents.

and my school never asked parents to not attend sex-ed, they were simpyl given the option to waive me from going to the class. they never showed up, they never waived me either, but they were given the choice. why? because i was 10 years old.

and as someone else asked... why say "Jesus Freak" like its a bad thing? what did someone who believes in love ever do to you?

[cubreporter]

Parents were not allowed to attend this conference with their children;


Ha,ha, ha...does that make me laugh. That's ALL my parents would have had to have heard and my sisters and brother would NOT have attended that conference no way no how. Would my parents have worried about it? No way no how. They were in charge of us not the likes of this group. Ha,ha.ha...it truly makes me chuckle cause they would have had one helluva battle on their hands if they had tried to make us go. Come to think of it...my husband and I would have done the same thing. Parents: Speak up. Speak out. Assert YOUR rights.

[tang-soo]

Some comments from amazon.com ...

From Publishers Weekly In this intelligent, amiable and carefully researched book, Harris ( Before You Were Three ) frankly explains the physical, psychological, emotional and social changes that occur during puberty--and the implications of these changes. Taking a conversational, relaxed tone, Harris also discusses such subjects as sexual orientation, sexual reproduction, pregnancy, birth control, sexually transmitted diseases and sexual abuse. The author intentionally and effectively repeats certain crucial information, especially on the subject of the possible consequences of sexual intercourse. Alternately playful and realistic (and occasionally graphic), Emberley's ( Ruby ) watercolor-and-pencil art reinforces Harris's message that bodies come in all sizes, shapes and colors--and that each variation is "perfectly normal." Cartoon panels illustrate various complicated processes (e.g., menstruation, the fertilization of an egg, childbirth). Appearing on each spread are two characters--an easy-going bird and an apprehensive bee--whose comments add levity to this solid volume. Ages 10-14.

From School Library Journal Grade 4-8-A wonderful guide for young adolescents setting sail on the stormy seas of puberty. Packed with the vital information they need to quell fears and make wise decisions, this "sex manual" uses of clever cartoons to enliven and expand the text. Frank yet playful, they portray a reassuring array of body types and ethnic groups and illuminate the richly informative, yet compact text, allowing readers to come away with a healthy respect for their bodies and a better understanding of the role...

Kids talk about sex A LOT. The problem is they often pass on incorrect information. This book is perfect to make sure that what they learn is correct, accurate and healthy. I read 1/3 of this book to my 9-year-old daughter and despite the late hour, she was mesmerized. The pictures are explicit, but is necessary so that children make no mistake about what is being discussed. It also has funny cartoons that address people's attitudes about sex, and which a kid can relate to. I like the part where it covers the various definitions of sex: gender, desire, reproduction, intercourse and homosexuality. Kids really do get warped concepts of sex and this book covers all the ways people talk about it (silly jokes) and their attitudes about it. The book also covers anatomy, puberty, families and babies, birth control, and staying healthy. It's well organized, well-written and concise. I recommend every parent who hears the word sex uttered from their child's lips, read this book to him/her. Even teenagers can benefit from this information.

Although this book is informative I do not believe it was meant for the shelves of a school library! Parents or guardians should go over this book with their children/young adults. The drawings are very graphic and do not belong in the hands of the inexperienced without supervision. Our Jr. High School currently has this book on it's shelves because of the high reviews and the "kids" check it out to pass around with their friends. It isn't being read but the pictures get a great deal of exposure. Please check with your school library for this book on it's shelves.

While I agree that the things discussed in this book are important to teach your children I strongly disagree with the graphic nature of the illustrations and some of the content in this book. I have also read that some organizations like Planned Parenthood are pushing this book to be placed in grade school libraries. If this is true I as a parent of a pre-school daughter am OUTRAGED that our public schools are allowing this. I don't believe this is appropriate material for children that young. This is borderline pornography. I also believe parents should be the one to share this information with their children not some teacher with a slanted bias toward some of the content in the book, ie..homosexuality, abortion, how to use a condom, etc. Parents should go to their schools and see if this is happening and voice their opinions.

I personally do not think that I would use this book at all for any age child or teen, but I am very concerned that its "recommended" age range is 9-12. I wouldn't want my 9-year-old child seeing drawings of naked men and women, learning how to put on a condom, and reading about how scientists are "working hard" to make the abortion pill available to the general public. This book treats abortion very lightly, making it appear to be something not serious that people do casually, not the life-altering and painful decision that it is. If you really want to use this book at all, I would wait at least until your children enter high school.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Oh and why do you say "Jesus freak" like its a bad thing?

Because they are just as dangerous as Muslim freaks... even more, since "Jesus Freaks" have more influence in American communities.

[edweena]

When I re-read the article it seemed as though the conference wasn't connected to public or private schools. I remember going to a class sponsored by Planned Parenthood when I was a Girl Scout. Parents could choose to send us or not. I think these parents are doing the same. Why should we harass them for doing so?

[bimboeruption]

This is Planned Parenthood's method of operation:

Separate kids from their parents.

Insinuate parents are dumb and mean but you can trust us.

Teach them sex without responsibility is great and their "right" so we call sell them tons of condoms and birth control pills.

Teach them unborn babies are blobs of flesh and can't feel pain.

When these "precautionary measures" fail, we'll make BIG $$$ selling them abortions.

Teach them to feel good about their "choice" so they'll keep coming back for more."

[bimboeruption]

What kind of FREAK are you that you have to elude to the "F" bomb in your tag?

[MacDorcha]

Mohammed teaches to "kill the infidel"

Jesus teaches to "Love the least of mine"

where were you going now? ignorance of the Teachings you say? ah, i see!

just because people read the Bible does not make them Jesus Freaks. people who love Jesus are Jesus Freaks. and ya know what? im pretty proud to be in that catagory.

[ladylib]

If the parents are fully knowledgeable about what the class consists of, fine, if that's what they want for their kids.

[HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath]

Planned Parenthood is to the family what the KKK is to blacks.

[sport]

What else do you expect from murderers, degenerates, and perverts?

[antceecee]

It really is disconcerting when I speak with a young girl today of 8 to ten years old and they talk about their 'dating' experiences. My pet peeve is listening to seven and eight year olds refer to an old boy or girlfriend as their ' ex '. It seems a life of promiscuity going from relationship to relationship and the language of divorce is being ingrained into their thinking.
The saddest thing is the toll it takes. I have a 20 year old relative who was diagnosed with cervical cancer. The doctor said he normally sees this advanced stage in women 30+ years old. My guess is she has been sexually active since about 7th grade. All of the Sex Ed Gurus can be really proud of themselves.

[antceecee]

Proud to be a JESUS FREAK!!! : )

[Between the Lines]

Oh and why do you say "Jesus freak" like its a bad thing? - smith288

Because they are just as dangerous as Muslim freaks... even more, since "Jesus Freaks" have more influence in American communities. -- Lunatic Fringe

I do not know which is worse.... The liberals with their attitude of 'I will support your perversion if you support mine' or your attitude of 'I want all the benefits of living in a moral Christian conservative nation, but I want to keep my perversions'.

[GadareneDemoniac]

If somebody put my child in a sexually-oriented session and WOULD NOT ALLOW me or the child's mother to sit in on it, my big 'ol country a** would be at the police station charging somebody with child abuse. How is this any different from what priests, child care providers, etc. are charged with ( and convicted of ) every day?
The American people need to wake up and start demanding some accountability!

[MacDorcha]

amen! (and i know youve been here a few months, but welcome to Freep!)

[TalBlack]

A "Jesus freak" who may petition politicians, buy ads, proslytize etc...is MORE dangerous than muslims who (lets even put aside for the moment their 6th century social vision and all it entails) fly fuel laden jumbo jets into buildings?

May Jesus help you!

[smith288]

Because they are just as dangerous as Muslim freaks... even more, since "Jesus Freaks" have more influence in American communities.

A "Jesus freak" is what in your opinion?

I consider myself one yet I wouldnt harm you in any way. If I can get enough support for a cause that is Christian in nature, you view that as more dangerous than maniacal muslim terrorist hellbent of killing every last one of us? Me thinks you have bought the liberal's line of Christians not afraid to express their beliefs are simply whackos and not just another sect of people with a certain line of thinking. Does my values scare you more than terrorists?

You, my lost one, are more dangerous than this "Jesus freak" will ever be.

[smith288]

What kind of FREAK are you that you have to elude to the "F" bomb in your tag?

Yea... What kind of old-school backwards person are you to elude to words??? We arent in 1950's anymore... Say your mind! Don't be some fanatical frump. People like you are dangerous...

[hasegawasama]

Planned Parenthood stands around crowded malls where teens hang out, and stuff condoms and lubricant into the hands of teenagers walking by. From personal experience.

[BenLurkin]

Some historical perspective:

Let's End The Democrat's Anti-Christian Bigotry

Washington, DC - TVC has just learned that the Internal Revenue Service is challenging the value of Sunday School materials donated for overseas use by a Christian publishing company.

According to Joel MacCollam with Christian Service Charities, the IRS "claims that faith-based material (in this case, Sunday School and Vacation Bible School publications) has no intrinsic impact on human lives or development programs to warrant a corporate donor claiming tax deductions because the material is religious in content." In other words, the donation of religious materials as gifts-in-kind, do not warrant tax deductions.

"We are alarmed by this religious bigotry on behalf of the Clinton/Gore IRS," says Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, Chairman of Traditional Values Coalition. "To challenge tax deductions for charitable Christian materials is a direct attack on faith-based charities and the work of spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

This isn't the first time the Clinton/Gore Administration has been involved in anti-Christian activities in recent years. In 1996, a federal Bankruptcy Court sued the Crystal Evangelical Free Church of Free Hope, Minnesota to recover tithe money that had been given to the church by a couple who had filed for bankruptcy.

The Bankruptcy Court ruled that this tithe was fraudulent--and could be confiscated--because the donors had received nothing of value in return. The Bankruptcy Court was aided by Attorney General Janet Reno who filed a 50 page brief against the church. "In this brief," said Sheldon, "The Justice Department compared this couple's church tithe to the ill-gotten gains of drug dealers."

"This anti-religious bigotry must stop," notes Sheldon. "Yet we learned earlier this month that the Department of Agriculture has stopped giving 10 tons of meat yearly to a Memphis, Tennessee Mission because this ministry to the homeless requires them attend a church service and pray before eating."

Press reports indicate that the Agriculture Department has been supplying surplus meat to this ministry for ten years.
TVC is alarmed that the federal government is willing to jeopardize the health of homeless men and women because a mission's feeding program includes saying grace before a meal.

The Interior Department's recent plan to ban the Boy Scouts from using federal lands is another example of the Clinton/Gore Administration's attack on traditional morality. Fortunately, this plan was exposed and Attorney General Janet Reno issued a statement supporting the Scout's use of federal properties.

"I am calling upon Missouri Congressman Dick Gephardt to take a principled stand against this religious bigotry and to assure us that if he is re-elected to Congress, he will make sure that people of faith are protected from harassment from federal bureaucrats," said Sheldon. "Gephardt claims to be for the underdog and against hate crimes. We're asking him to protect Christians from the federal government's hateful anti-Christian bigotry. "

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=217