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(New Zealand PM) Clark Gets Palestinian Backing
xtramsn.co.nz ^ | 17/07/2004

Posted on 07/16/2004 9:23:19 PM PDT by Piefloater

The Palestine Human Rights Campaign is calling for other nations to support Helen Clark's condemnation of Israel.

The Prime Minister has all but severed diplomatic relations with Tel Aviv after two Israeli men, thought to be government spies, were jailed for passport fraud.

Campaign spokesman David Wakim says it is a long time since any government has spoken out against Israel in such a forceful way, but he says now the international community should wake up to what Israel is doing and follow suit.

He claims the Israeli government is completely disrespectful of international law or borders, and the world community has to rein it in.

David Wakim says Israel should be told to comply with its international obligations or face sanctions.

Meantime, suggestions the two suspected Mossad spies will appeal their six-month jail sentence have been laughed at by Foreign Affairs Minister Phil Goff.

Alleged Mossad spies Uri Kelman and Eli Cara have denied links with Israel's intelligence services, but Mr Goff says the evidence against the two men was overwhelming, which is why they pleaded guilty to the charges.

He says the value of New Zealand passports, which the spies tried to illegally obtain, cannot be underestimated.

Mr Goff says if the world thought Israeli agents were using New Zealand passports it would make life more difficult for New Zealanders with legitimate documents.

He says the Israeli Government has to acknowledge its agents carried out criminal acts in New Zealand and apologise for allowing it to happen.

The Government is being accused of helping deny the two Israelis a fair trial.

Before their case even got to court, reports surfaced in the media they were Israeli spies. Their lawyer Grant Illingworth says this prejudiced their right to a fair trial.

He says the Ministry of Foreign Affairs must have had a role in leaking the information.

Grant Illingworth says the allegations gave his clients little prospect of having their case heard in front of an impartial jury.

He says they therefore had no choice but to make a guilty plea.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry is surprised by the strength of the New Zealand Government's response to the conviction of two of their nationals.

Prime Minister Helen Clark is seeking an apology from the Israeli government and has suspended high level meetings until it comes.

A request for Israel's head of state President Moshe Katsav to visit New Zealand next month, as part of his visit to Australia, has been turned down.

In addition, Israelis coming to New Zealand on diplomatic business must now obtain visas.

And Australia has stepped into the diplomatic row that has erupted between the New Zealand and Israeli governments.

Helen Clark has suspended all top level contacts with Israel.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard has offered his hand to mend the rift.

He says he is sorry the row has happened, and he will think about acting as a mediator to get the New Zealand - Israel relationship patched up.

Mr Howard says while he does not want to involve himself in other people's affairs, he has good relations with the leaders of both countries.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: helenclark; israel; newzealand; projihadists

1 posted on 07/16/2004 9:23:21 PM PDT by Piefloater
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To: shaggy eel

Shaggy, here's something for you!!


2 posted on 07/16/2004 9:52:30 PM PDT by potlatch (HECK IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOSH)
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To: Piefloater

Brings to mind Bob Dylan's song:

---Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.---

http://bobdylan.com/songs/bully.html


3 posted on 07/16/2004 10:42:26 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Piefloater; potlatch; shaggy eel

They should have come here to America. They could have gotten credit cards, library cards, driver's licenses, voter registration cards, and passports.

Oh wait, I forgot... they aren't Mexican.


4 posted on 07/16/2004 11:28:12 PM PDT by SpyGuy
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To: SpyGuy; Piefloater; potlatch; shaggy eel

LOL!

I don't know how much use Australia's offer will be - Clark likes to take the moral high ground whenever possible and she's going to milk this one for all she can get.

And I don't think that Israel has got much sympathy from many NZers on this one - everyone seems to be shocked, and not just a little insulted that they thought we were so easy to have the wool pulled.


5 posted on 07/17/2004 2:48:35 AM PDT by Kiwigal (NZ - Where men are men and sheep are nervous)
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To: Piefloater; potlatch; Kiwigal; Neophyte; Brian Allen
,,, in the mid 1980s the Labour government of the day set a precident by deporting two French agents who were guilty of manslaughter when they blew up the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour. The French put signifiant political pressure on and also made some concessions for New Zealand primary produce exports into the EU.

What's happened here with these Israelis is very serious but keep in mind that they haven't killed anyone.

Helen Klark is correct in demanding an official apology from Israel and when she gets one the agents should be deported, without trial.

Phil Goff made a visit to Yassir Arafat last year, so it's pretty transparent where the Labour government's sympathies lie. Israel should give an apology without delay and ask for their two agents to be returned, in line with textbook Labour government procedure and historical treatment. If she doesn't think carefully, the much coveted trade deal with the US could move even slower.

6 posted on 07/17/2004 2:50:09 AM PDT by shaggy eel
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To: Piefloater

Please add me to your ping list in future. I've been mauled hald to death by rabid Kiwis on another thread dealing with this same issue. I'd rather have my fellow countrymen back me up.

Cheers,
KaJac.


7 posted on 07/17/2004 2:58:49 AM PDT by KangarooJacqui (http://www.RightGoths.com/ - Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. Wear black and be proud!)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: shaggy eel

Yeah, the current international policies are a big cringe (remember the "if Gore had won this wouldn't have happened" comment??)

It would be quite interesting to find out whether Israel asked first for NZ passports for their and were turned down, or if they just went ahead anyway. I suspect the government may have said no if asked, on the basis that if hostile countries found out about it, real kiwis would get hassled along with the spies.


9 posted on 07/17/2004 3:39:04 AM PDT by Kiwigal (NZ - Where men are men and sheep are nervous)
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To: shaggy eel
Shaggy, you appear to support Helen on this but do you think that there is an element of political grandstanding involved in her actions?

Apparently there is negligible trade between NZ & Israel and neither country even has an embassy in the other's. Helen really hasn't got much to lose by playing this tough.

One has to wonder if this would have played out the same way if the country involved was much more significant to NZ.

10 posted on 07/17/2004 3:48:47 AM PDT by Piefloater
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To: Kiwigal
,,, well, whatever these guys needed passports for, they were planning something that would have been too hot to work out of one of their embassies as staff.

Klark is right to take the hard line, but on the basis of what's happened with the Rainbow Warrior operatives, she should really return these two once an official apology has been tendered. My feeling is she won't be able to resist being able to play King Helen, southseas warrior prince of all she surveys. This is a sutuation where a real politician is able to show decisiveness in what's expected of a Statesman. This isn't a good time for her to think about taking off overseas or signing her name to someone else's artwork again.

She won't want John Howard as a mediator either, we all know that. No disrespect to Mr Howard at all, but Klark isn't fussed on Australia or the US. I bet Chirac's waiting by his phone [LOL!!!]

11 posted on 07/17/2004 3:55:06 AM PDT by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel

You've adapted an interesting take on this one shaggs -- but please don't underestimate the danger to the civilized world posed by Peking Clark and her femmunists' -- and their seemingly open-door policy towards hordes of immigration-outcome seeking islamist "refugees."

Tiny Israel has every right to be afraid of and to keep an eye on every foreign oasis provided its mortal enemies.

Although it aughtn't get caught.

And you'd be suprised, because no-one's ever heard of all y'all, just how many of the folks who slip anonymously about the globe 'keeping an eye on things' travel on New Zealand passports. HehHehHeh .....

Bump.


12 posted on 07/17/2004 4:22:12 AM PDT by Brian Allen (I am a Hyphenated American -- Thank God -- An AMERICAN-American! -- And a Dollar-A-Day FReeper.)
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To: Brian Allen; Piefloater
,,, to date, the chief femanist has made a few grandstanding mistakes that someone of her much lauded intelligence really shouldn't have.

There's around fourteen months until New Zealand's next election and she's juggling a number of issues and fending off missiles as her teflon suit wears thin. Immigration has been a hottie to date... Leanne Dalziel was the Minister in charge of it but Helen, on firing her, had to admit Dalziel had been "economic with the truth". The magnifying glass is on immigration within government and is played like a fiddle by Winston Peters to capture votes from the blue rinse set. There's many aspects to the troubles the issue is going thru at present and Xao Helen is quite aware that it's an election issue. To compound it, we have skills shortages, which, in many cases can only be resolved by immigrants moving here.

She'll love being in the spotlight but she's smart enough to know that she's not only standing on Israel's toes with this one.

As for the mobility of passport holders travelling the world on Kiwi or other passports, that's been the case since Adam played line backer for the... should I say "Israelites" - maybe not on this thread.

13 posted on 07/17/2004 4:42:21 AM PDT by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel

<< As for the mobility of passport holders travelling the world on Kiwi or other passports, that's been the case since Adam played line backer for the... should I say "Israelites" - maybe not on this thread. >>

Perhaps since Pontious was an Alitalia Pilot?


14 posted on 07/17/2004 6:59:40 AM PDT by Brian Allen (I am a Hyphenated American -- Thank God -- An AMERICAN-American! -- And a Dollar-A-Day FReeper.)
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To: Brian Allen

,,, ha! KGBalitalia. Even the baggage handlers were on the take.


15 posted on 07/17/2004 1:35:26 PM PDT by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel

<< ,,, ha! KGBalitalia. Even the baggage handlers were on the take. >>

So are those [Just for starters] at the squandermaniacaly-quid pro quo putrid-politician-perk-providing "national carrier" dinosaurs we know as Air New Zealand, British Airways and Qantas.

[And don't get me started on that OPEC-shaming gang's mobbed-up-unionized/politicized international "courier" cabin poofters]


16 posted on 07/17/2004 6:08:28 PM PDT by Brian Allen (I am a Hyphenated American -- Thank God -- An AMERICAN-American! -- And a Dollar-A-Day FReeper.)
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To: SpyGuy

LOL, how right you are!


17 posted on 07/17/2004 7:34:32 PM PDT by potlatch (HECK IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOSH)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
18 posted on 07/18/2004 7:32:54 AM PDT by SJackson (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good, Hillary Clinton)
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To: shaggy eel
They're already in jail, they'll be deported in six months. Given the fact that NZ is willing to expel murderers (w/o diplomatic immunity) if given an apology, but breaks off relations over this incident, I'd say their double standard is showing.
19 posted on 07/18/2004 7:50:47 AM PDT by SJackson (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good, Hillary Clinton)
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To: Piefloater
Apparently there is negligible trade between NZ & Israel and neither country even has an embassy in the other's. Helen really hasn't got much to lose by playing this tough.

New Zealand cannot be trusted in the War on Terror just like they could not be trusted in the Cold War after a certain time. The sheep overbreed when they have no natural enemies. They will find their wolves.

20 posted on 07/18/2004 7:54:42 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981

"New Zealand cannot be trusted in the War on Terror just like they could not be trusted in the Cold War after a certain time. The sheep overbreed when they have no natural enemies. They will find their wolves."

My wife will be retiring next year, and we had planned for years to go to NZ each year after New Year's to spend a couple of nice Summer months, fly fishing and just living on the ocean coastal areas.

It will be a cold day in Hell before we do that. I see no difference in the bitch in charge of NZ than ChIraq.

We have stopped buying NZ lamb and wouldn't drink one of their wines if it was given to us, let alone buy a bottle of NZ wine.


21 posted on 07/18/2004 8:13:42 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Teresa Heinz Kerry: 'I have to say that John Edwards is very beautiful'...)
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To: SJackson

,,, Klark's government isn't blazing the double standards trail with this particular incident. There's a track record that will see her out next election.


22 posted on 07/18/2004 1:03:43 PM PDT by shaggy eel
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To: claudiustg

And yet, Bob Dylan still shows up at DemocRAT ralley, despite their pro-Palestinian candidates.


23 posted on 07/18/2004 2:14:19 PM PDT by happygrl
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To: shaggy eel; Brian Allen
Since the subject has been alluded to on this thread, why don't the Kiwis clear the way for Zimbabweans and South Africans to immigrate ? They have skills, and they're not an alien culture.

It infuriates me that so many countries think that Muslim immigrants will be the answer to their problems.

24 posted on 07/18/2004 2:23:40 PM PDT by happygrl
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To: happygrl

,,, there's no shortage of immigrants from Zim and South Africa in New Zealand.


25 posted on 07/18/2004 2:25:00 PM PDT by shaggy eel
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