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The Right to Bare Arms
NY Times ^ | July 19, 2004 | Meathead Editorial

Posted on 07/18/2004 9:37:46 PM PDT by neverdem

The latte grande at the Starbucks in Tysons Corner, Va., must have seemed extra steamy last month when two college students bellied up to the bar packing pistols on their hips, as casually as if they wore cellphones. Someone called the police, who confiscated the handguns and charged the students. But wait: the Catch-22 in Virginia's enfeebled gun control laws has kicked in.

Sure there's a state law against carrying loaded firearms in public. But the lethal fine print defines "firearm" as a 20-round-plus assault rifle. So smaller weapons, like the .22-caliber and 9-millimeter pistols the students flaunted in their holsters, are legal and no permit is required. The pistols were returned, thereby contributing to a celebratory mood among the state's gun enthusiasts. Now they're strutting their Second Amendment stuff among Main Street shoppers and restaurant diners in Washington's booming Virginia suburbs.

There was what seemed a self-fantasized posse of six this month at a table in a Champps restaurant, their weapons prominent as pepper mills. The same false alarm ensued, with a police patrol backing off in the face of citizens' exercising their rights, according to The Washington Post. And how about the couple walking their dogs on busy Market Street in Reston? They carried pistols on their hips, plus extra ammunition clips, as if the area were a set from "The Wild Bunch" and not one of the most crime-free places in Virginia.

The flaunting ritual is a tribute to "open carry" gun laws on the books in a score of states. Outcries from the unarmed public usually go unheeded. In Utah, university administrators worried over students' wearing guns in dormitories were overruled by the legislature, which defended gun rights — even to the point of packing in class.

You'd think Virginia citizens concerned about weapons in public would be able to seek comfort in the primacy of local controls. Alexandria, for instance, has barred open carrying. But that was before the very latest Catch-22 in Virginia law: effective this month, state law bars any locality from enacting gun regulations. Gotcha.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Utah; US: Virginia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; cantspell; guncontrol; gunprohibition; liberalwantyourguns; nytimes; secondamendment
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"But the lethal fine print defines "firearm" as a 20-round-plus assault rifle." Huh? I would like to see that definition.
1 posted on 07/18/2004 9:37:47 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

My friend from Barbados is studying to be a citizen and was very insistent that an American has a right to carry a shotgun on his person at all times. I said go ahead and please do it one day and watch what happens *LOL*


2 posted on 07/18/2004 9:41:53 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: neverdem
What are liberals so upset about? Its not exactly like licensed gun users go on a cold-blooded killing spree. The New York Times should look at the upside. Openly armed customers tell criminals they should look for an easier place to rob.
3 posted on 07/18/2004 9:42:12 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: *bang_list; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; ..

From time to time, I’ll post or ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. Let me know if you want off my list.


4 posted on 07/18/2004 9:42:58 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

The liberal weenies at the NY Times are wetting their depends at the very thought of free citizens exercising their basic rights. NY State needs this law too. Then citizens would not live in fear of subway muggers, as they do now. A concealed carry law would be even better, though, for NY.


5 posted on 07/18/2004 9:44:16 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: neverdem
You'd think Virginia citizens concerned about weapons in public would be able to seek comfort in the primacy of local controls.

Yes, you might think that.

But it would be wrong, that's for sure!

6 posted on 07/18/2004 9:49:49 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: neverdem

I just discovered that to get *any* gun license in NJ, you have to wait nearly 3 months. THREE MONTHS! Even if you just want a hunting rifle!

Could you imagine if you moved to a state and they said, "You have the right to free speech here, but you'll have to wait three months before you are allowed to actually say anything."

It's BS.

Good thing I'm planning on moving soon. Just trying to figure out where I can find the friendliest territory. Criteria: predominately republican, growing economy, low cost of living, good values, low taxes, and sensible laws. Any suggestions?


7 posted on 07/18/2004 9:50:12 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: neverdem

I didn't know the right to bare arms was in danger? Even in Britain they can bare their arms.


8 posted on 07/18/2004 9:51:58 PM PDT by Melas
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To: dd5339; Vic3O3

RKBA ping.

(must be nice)


9 posted on 07/18/2004 9:52:10 PM PDT by cavtrooper21 (CQB is a very polite way of describing a gunfight at knifefighting range.......)
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To: bolobaby

The Moon.
Mars.
.... The other side of the Milky Way.


10 posted on 07/18/2004 9:53:36 PM PDT by cavtrooper21 (CQB is a very polite way of describing a gunfight at knifefighting range.......)
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To: neverdem
Of course I have a right to bare these arms:

"I'm too sexy for my sleeves, too sexy..."

11 posted on 07/18/2004 9:53:57 PM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (Terrorist attacks ain't caused by the use of strength. They're invited by the perception of weakness)
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To: goldstategop

NYT knows that - but pretends not to for reasons of advancing its anti-American agenda.


12 posted on 07/18/2004 9:57:12 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("A republic, if we can revive it")
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To: bolobaby

Alaska and Vermont don't require any paperwork for handguns, rifles or shotguns except the Federal NICS check, but politically Vermont is trending the wrong way with pols like Howard Dean and the self proclaimed socialist Congressman Bernie Sanders.


13 posted on 07/18/2004 9:58:16 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
The Right to Bare Arms

What's next? The right to bare legs, bare midriffs, bare bottoms?

The Puritans would be incensed!

I guess we had it coming, when they started allowing bare wrists and ankles.
Heaven help us!

14 posted on 07/18/2004 10:00:00 PM PDT by Jess Kitting
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To: neverdem

The "lethal fine print" happens to be the statutory language. But when has what the law says been important to the Slimes?

If the Slimes cared as much about the Second Amendment as they claim they care about the First, we wouldn't have these lame editorials. If the people of Virginia want their citizens to be able to carry guns wherever they want, it's none of the Slimes' business. It's more of a travesty that the people of New York City have to run through every conceivable hoop even to own a handgun in their house, let alone carry it on the street.


15 posted on 07/18/2004 10:01:22 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: bolobaby
Criteria: predominately republican, growing economy, low cost of living, good values, low taxes, and sensible laws. Any suggestions?

Chile

16 posted on 07/18/2004 10:02:49 PM PDT by dasboot (<img src="XXX">)
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To: neverdem

Didn't Dean get an good rating from the NRA?


17 posted on 07/18/2004 10:05:26 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: neverdem
In Utah, university administrators worried over students' wearing guns in dormitories were overruled by the legislature, which defended gun rights — even to the point of packing in class.

I never carried to class, but I did have a .270, a Winchester .44Mag rifle, a Ruger .44 pistol, and a 12 guage shotgun in my dorm room while I was in college back in the late 70's/early 80's. Lots of us had guns of one sort or another from .22 rifles up to .300 WinMags ... oddly enough, none of these evil weapons (or their owners) decided to go on a killin' spree ...

18 posted on 07/18/2004 10:05:50 PM PDT by spodefly (This post meets the minimum daily requirements for cynicism and irony.)
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To: neverdem
Alexandria, for instance, has barred open carrying. But that was before the very latest Catch-22 in Virginia law: effective this month, state law bars any locality from enacting gun regulations. Gotcha.

Catch-22? I do not think that word means what you think it means...

19 posted on 07/18/2004 10:08:54 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: cyborg

Arizona is an open carry state. About three weeks ago one of my coworkers stopped by the local gun store on his way home from work and purchased an AR-15. He then continued on his five mile ride home -- on his bicycle, with the AR slung over his shoulder. None of the local cops accosted him, but maybe that's because he's 6'8" tall.


20 posted on 07/18/2004 10:12:02 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: Jess Kitting

>>What's next? The right to bare legs, bare midriffs, bare bottoms?

Those most likely to bare things are the ones least likely to look good doing it...


21 posted on 07/18/2004 10:12:11 PM PDT by Keith in Iowa (Michael Moore has made "documentary" a 1-word oxymoron.)
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To: Jess Kitting

Bring on the Burkas!


22 posted on 07/18/2004 10:12:35 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (New Linux SUSE Pro 9.1 user here.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

All I told him was vote republican :) My congresswoman never met a gun she didn't hate.


23 posted on 07/18/2004 10:13:34 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: bolobaby
Good thing I'm planning on moving soon. Just trying to figure out where I can find the friendliest territory. Criteria: predominately republican, growing economy, low cost of living, good values, low taxes, and sensible laws. Any suggestions?

Arizona meets most of your criteria, I don't consider the taxes low, but coming from NJ you may see it differently.

There is no waiting to buy a gun, the dealer calls the NIS, if you are cleared, you fill out the ATF form, and leave with the gun, if you have a CCW all you have to do is fill out the ATF form. Open carry is legal in Arizona.

24 posted on 07/18/2004 10:13:49 PM PDT by c-b 1
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To: Destro
Didn't Dean get an good rating from the NRA?

He certainly did, an A IIRC, and the other Dems tried to use it against him. But that was because Vermont has a miniscule crime problem, none or almost no gun laws, and no local pols making an issue about guns.

25 posted on 07/18/2004 10:14:48 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: bolobaby
Southwestern Pennsylvania.

Works for me.

26 posted on 07/18/2004 10:16:25 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Eagles Up !!!!)
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To: neverdem

I would tend to agree. Dean never had to vote for a controversial gun issue. If he had made it past the scream, he would have jumped right in line with the rest of New England politicians.


27 posted on 07/18/2004 10:18:20 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: neverdem

Thanks - so what did you mean trending wrong with Dean? Was that in refrence to gun rights or just being left wing in terms of economics for Vermont policy?


28 posted on 07/18/2004 10:18:38 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: bolobaby

New Jersey leads in Cultural Pollution and the number of unassimilated persons from foreign countries that are communist.


29 posted on 07/18/2004 10:23:50 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: neverdem

30 posted on 07/18/2004 10:26:02 PM PDT by happydogdesign
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To: xm177e2
Catch-22? I do not think that word means what you think it means...

Me or the Times? I understand that phrase to mean regardless of the situation, you're damned if you do, or you're damned if you don't. Don't expect the Times to make sense writing about guns.

31 posted on 07/18/2004 10:26:23 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

"Alaska and Vermont..."

I don't think there is anything that could make me move to the socialist wonderland that is Vermont. Rutland has the right idea by trying to secede! Heh.

Seriously, we have property in NH - which is a great state once you get several miles north of the border. All the Ma$$holes try to escape MA's high cost of living by moving just over the border only to start complaining about wanting more services and crap. (I guess they don't realize that garbage collection isn't really practical on a dirt road that is miles from anywhere...) NH would be a solid red state if it wasn't for the proximity of MA.

My parents have a Bed & Breakfast in Lyme, NH - which is just north of Dartmouth College and on the border with Vermont. That area is far left, too, unfortunately. Socialists abound.

The rest of NH is pretty sensible, though.

Alaska is right out, though. I don't think my wife wants to move there.


32 posted on 07/18/2004 10:27:01 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: neverdem
You'd think Virginia citizens concerned about weapons in public would be able to seek comfort in the primacy of local controls. Alexandria, for instance, has barred open carrying. But that was before the very latest Catch-22 in Virginia law: effective this month, state law bars any locality from enacting gun regulations. Gotcha.

Hell no! You don't want to have different standards of firearm handling from city to city. It needs to be consistent within the boundary of the state lines. Would these twits like to have local "primacy" on the subject of making a right turn on a red light? Ok in one city. Misdemeanor in another. Felony in another. Yippee! What fun!

33 posted on 07/18/2004 10:27:45 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: cyborg

Hey, but he knows what to carry. 12, 16, or 20; duck and cover.


34 posted on 07/18/2004 10:27:45 PM PDT by Atchafalaya
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To: bolobaby

Cochise County, Arizona.

Mostly troglodytic paleocons like me. We still have tails, just mastered upright bipedal posture, and may figure out this business of opposable thumbs one of these days.

If you know the difference between a bit and a byte, you're hired.

A really nice house will set you back less than $150K and your property tax will only be about $1200 per annum.

Good values? Not sure about that. Do you drink and like to corrupt good Mormons into becoming Jack-Mormons? Don't worry, they like it.

Laws? Sorry, this is the wrong side of the Babocomari River. Laws are only advisory in nature.

Please check yore guns at the door -- to make sure they are loaded.


35 posted on 07/18/2004 10:27:46 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: bolobaby
Could you imagine if you moved to a state and they said, "You have the right to free speech here, but you'll have to wait three months before you are allowed to actually say anything."

Well everyone knows that free speech is a collective right rather than an individual right. It refers to things like New Jersey Public Television and Radio, not to you just speaking your mind on the street corner. < /leftist 2nd amendment logic applied to the 1st amendment >

36 posted on 07/18/2004 10:31:39 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You can lead a liberal to the facts but you can't make him think.)
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To: Atchafalaya

Hehehe yep


37 posted on 07/18/2004 10:31:41 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: neverdem

It's in the eminations of the penumbra.


38 posted on 07/18/2004 10:33:06 PM PDT by gorush (Exterminate the Moops!)
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To: Destro

Yup, he left it up to the states. YYYYEEEAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!


39 posted on 07/18/2004 10:33:47 PM PDT by Atchafalaya
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To: neverdem
From today's news (AKA: as I see it)

Man attacks girlfriend with alligator

A Florida man who hit his girlfriend with a 3-foot long alligator and threw beer bottles at her during an argument, has been charged with battery and possession of an alligator. 

The alligator, which David Havenner, 41, had been keeping in his bathtub, was turned over to Florida wildlife officials. 

Nancy Monico, 39, told investigators that Havenner beat her with his fists, then grabbed the alligator and swung it at her as she tried to escape, sheriff's spokesman Gary Davidson said.

My comments:

This story makes me wonder. Alligators and beer bottles can be lethal weapons, so...

Are people in legal possession of alligators required to attend alligator safety classes and have a police background check before they can get one?

Is there an NAA (National Alligator Association)?

I read another account of this story that said both the man and woman had been drinking, maybe a bit too much. It didn't report if the alligator was "loaded" at the time.

Will Florida now pass an assault alligator law?

If the women had been struck by one of the bottles, critically injured or died, could her family have sued the bottle manufacturers for product flaws?

Do people in Florida have bumper stickers that read "When alligators are outlawed, only outlaws will have alligators"?

Is a case of bottled beer an assault weapon?

Is Florida in competition for California's "weird news" title?

40 posted on 07/18/2004 10:36:07 PM PDT by backtothestreets
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To: neverdem
The Right to Bare Arms

This is silly. Not everyone should wear tank tops.

41 posted on 07/18/2004 10:37:54 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (~*-,._.,-*~Loves her hubbit~*-,._.,-*~)
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To: gorush

Ooooh -- that sounds like the massage therapist I met over in Bisbee. For $5 extra she will also purify your aura.


42 posted on 07/18/2004 10:38:20 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: Choose Ye This Day; neverdem

Belly metro boy's ?

I volunteer to ask you to add me to your bang list neverdem .. What in the hell is this site becoming ?


43 posted on 07/18/2004 10:39:09 PM PDT by Ben Bolt ( " The Spenders " ..)
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To: backtothestreets

There was a guy in Tucson who held up a 7-11 with a potted cactus...


44 posted on 07/18/2004 10:40:42 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Ooooh -- that sounds like the massage therapist I met over in Bisbee. For $5 extra she will also purify your aura."

Actually you aren't far off...it's the exact language the supreme court used to describe where they found the right to abortion in the U.S. Constitution.

45 posted on 07/18/2004 10:41:30 PM PDT by gorush (Exterminate the Moops!)
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To: cyborg

Do I detect a "whiff of" cynicism? He asked, and the fishing is good.


46 posted on 07/18/2004 10:42:25 PM PDT by Atchafalaya
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To: Atchafalaya

Not that I checked, but I don't believe that NY has any open carry laws for a shotgun. If they do, I'd be amazed. Cynicism is putting it mildly where the three headed democrat monster is concerned.


47 posted on 07/18/2004 10:45:56 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: gorush

I've heard things like that happen if you drink the bong water. Just like the Queen of Hearts, you can believe a dozen possible things before breakfast.


48 posted on 07/18/2004 10:47:51 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: gorush

Make that "impossible things". The spell checker needs to be in the keyboard, not the CPU.


49 posted on 07/18/2004 10:49:19 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
There was a guy in Tucson who held up a 7-11 with a potted cactus...

LMAO!  Sounds like another dangerous weapon needing control, regulation, and licensing if you ask me.

I've actually a method to the madness of posting such stories (or madness to my method depending on who you ask). Stories like this happen throughout the nation daily. Maybe if people saw more of these, they might just see it's criminals, not the weapon, and not law-abiding citizens that threaten them.

50 posted on 07/18/2004 10:49:26 PM PDT by backtothestreets
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