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Plastic Wrap Barrier Causes Motorcycle Crash
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel ^ | July 16, 2004 | DARRYL ENRIQUEZ

Posted on 07/19/2004 9:01:53 AM PDT by BluegrassScholar

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To: -YYZ-
So it's whatever pleases you, and screw everyone else, right? When the cops pull you over and hassle you looking for equipment violations, you'll only have to look in the mirror to see who's fault it is.

This is settled easily. You're a Canadian, and I'm a Texan. You just wouldn't understand. No Texas cop is going to hassle a biker over loud pipes (well maybe the sandle wearing cops in Austin). This isn't liberal New York, and it's not Canada. Freedom still reigns here.

151 posted on 07/20/2004 6:01:47 PM PDT by Melas
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To: -YYZ-
Actually, you have a lot in common with those guys - putting a loud exhaust on an underpowered vehicle that produce no significant gain in power. Actually you can get a gain in power as long as you open up the airflow and re-jet the carb(s). My 1340 is far from underpowered and it sound a hell of a lot better than those fart mufflers on those cars. BTW, I bought the bike with those aftermarket pipes on them. If I'd have bought one brand-new I would have most likely left the stock ones in place. Also, see my post 22. I use consideration when necessary for pete's sake.
152 posted on 07/20/2004 6:29:30 PM PDT by Looking4Truth (NEVER trust Muslims to keep their word.)
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To: Melas

Everything I said in post #139 was incorrect.

I stand corrected and bow my head in shame.

Chain driven counter balancers as you said is correct.


(I was very vigorously educated a few hours ago)


153 posted on 07/20/2004 6:48:47 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: -YYZ-
...When the cops pull you over and hassle you looking for equipment violations, you'll only have to look in the mirror to see who's fault it is.

Wow, it must suck to live where you live.

154 posted on 07/20/2004 6:55:03 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: Melas

I thought courtesy and consideration for others (and not just those in your neighbourhood) was also a Texan trait. My mistake.

I like a nice sounding exhaust, which unfortunately also means loud, as much as anyone. But I know it annoys the heck out of me when my neighbour starts up his loud Harley at 5:30 am and idles it in his driveway for 10 minutes, nevmind going WOT as soon as he gets moving. So why would I subject others to the same annoyance?


155 posted on 07/20/2004 6:55:15 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1

I frequent lots of motorcycling message boards. I hear stories about that kind of harassment from the cops from all over North America.


156 posted on 07/20/2004 6:57:04 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: Looking4Truth

When I bought my current bike from its previous owner, I could have taken it with the 2 Brothers slip-ons that he had installed. The sound they produced was sweet, but loud. I requested that he replace the stock mufflers before I took possesion, he sold them to someone on the internet.

Does your consideration extend beyond your neighbourhood? But don't get me wrong, not all aftermarket pipes are obnoxiously loud, and as I said if the loud handle is used judiciously they can be alright. If I've mistakenly lumped you in with the straight-pipe, WOT from every stop crowd, I apologize.


157 posted on 07/20/2004 7:01:03 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1
Hmmm, that's weird. I was never flagged to your original message. That's the first time this has happened.

You can actually hear the chains on the 88B. What's worse, there is for lack of a better term, a laggy feeling to the 88B compared to the 88. It's led to a lot of veteran bikers tearing up perfectly good carburators thinking it's a jetting problem.

158 posted on 07/20/2004 7:02:53 PM PDT by Melas
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To: -YYZ-
I didn't pick up on you being Canadian early enough. I didn't mean my post to be a slam, but an observation.

For good or for bad, Americans are more concerned with individual liberty, and less concerned with society at large than Canadians.

Now this goes double for Texas, where you can still find horses in a city the size of Dallas, and if the neighbors don't like the smell, they can move. Honestly, if the Texas legislature would attempt half the nanny-state regulations that California or New York have (let alone Canada), the legislators would have to drive further than New Mexico to hide this time.

159 posted on 07/20/2004 7:13:38 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Looking4Truth
Really? Most people fawn all over my bike and love to talk to me about it. The only 'hate' came from a black guy on a Japanese bike. I waved at him and he gave me one of those 'dis' looks. In fact, in my experience, the crotch rocket riders are more elitist than the hog riders. Don't get me started on the 'fart mufflers' the 'tuners' put on their Japanese cars, talk about annoying!!

I have a problem with that also. They sound awful. I love to hear a nice sounding engine but those tuners! OTOH, a harley backfiring into open pipes as it gears down for the stop sign near my house is also bad.

I was visiting the 'Old Town' section of town one weekend and the noise from the harleys was actually painful.

160 posted on 07/20/2004 7:15:35 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: Melas

FWIW, my take on this is not common amongst my motorcycling enthusiast acquaintances up here, either. Most people agree, in theory, that loud pipes (whether on a cruiser, sport bike or whatever) are an annoyance to much of the public and hurt our public image (if it can get any worse). And they don't like being annoyed by the racket when they're sitting in their backyards, or being woken up early in the mornin, either. I've made a personal decision to make my actions consistent with what I say, rather than letting my personal enjoyment overrule what I believe.

But hey, none of it's all that big a deal. Loud bikes are just one of many noisy annoyances of mdoern life. I'd still give you the high sign if you were passing the other way on the road, whatever you're riding or however loud it is, or stop and give you a hand if you needed it. I love bikes, and anyone else who also does is OK with me, even if their tastes differ.


161 posted on 07/20/2004 7:21:26 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
BTW, my stock-mufflered 1000cc V-Twin powered bike makes about 90 HP and will do the quarter mile in about 11.5 seconds, which makes it more powerful and quicker than about 90% of the loud-piped Harleys on the road, all without pissing off all and sundry. And given a place to do it it would run all day at or near its HP peak.

I don't think Harley owners think of performance when they open up their pipes. I think it is about ticking others off.

162 posted on 07/20/2004 7:21:53 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: -YYZ-

Florida doesn't bother. Loud pipes is the only violation they go after and it doesn't take long to find, write up and move on.

All other code violations here, usually wind up with a warning or order to repair with minimal fine, so the incentive to "search for violations" isn't there.

Scraping bikers up off the pavement and receiving OT pay for the funeral escort is a much bigger business.

Riding in South Florida means knowing the next biker funeral of a friend is only a few weeks away, always.


163 posted on 07/20/2004 7:23:52 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: cinFLA

"I was visiting the 'Old Town' section of town one weekend and the noise from the harleys was actually painful."

When I've gone down to the Friday the 13th gathering (which happens, strangely enough, every Friday the 13th) in Port Dover, Ontario, I've sometimes ended up leaving my earplugs in while walking around town. We can debate loud pipes, but completely unmuffled straight pipes just sound like crap IMO, and are way too loud. Children covering their ears when they go by loud.


164 posted on 07/20/2004 7:25:11 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1

"Riding in South Florida means knowing the next biker funeral of a friend is only a few weeks away, always."

That doesn't sound like too much fun to me. Of course, watching my best biking buddy die from cancer at 42 wasn't any fun, either.


165 posted on 07/20/2004 7:27:47 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: cinFLA

Some of them don't. The guys that slap on drag pipes and don't bother rejetting are obviously just looking for noise, as they've probably lost power at most rpms.


166 posted on 07/20/2004 7:29:23 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
If I've mistakenly lumped you in with the straight-pipe, WOT from every stop crowd, I apologize.

You made me laugh with the 'WOT from every stop' part. I know some of those guys and they ride many different kinds of bikes and yes, some of them drive those annoying 'tuner' cars. No, I'm not in that category I was just a little bent out of shape when I first read some of the comments earlier in the thread hence my 'I'll ride my bike whenever I want with loud pipes' rant. I keep the throttle down around public parks, livestock and other peoples neighborhoods but I sure do love the sound when I open it up on the highway.

167 posted on 07/20/2004 7:32:51 PM PDT by Looking4Truth (NEVER trust Muslims to keep their word.)
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To: cinFLA
I don't think Harley owners think of performance when they open up their pipes. I think it is about ticking others off.

Nope, we call it paying the tax. Harley's are crippled off the showroom floor, and I mean crippled. Often times you can get a 20%-25% boost in horsepower by paying the tax, ie, high-flow airbox, high-flow pipes, and rejetting the carburator to accomodate both.

168 posted on 07/20/2004 7:36:09 PM PDT by Melas
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To: -YYZ-

Actually I prefer the term WFO! Wide F@##in' Open.


169 posted on 07/20/2004 7:37:40 PM PDT by Looking4Truth (NEVER trust Muslims to keep their word.)
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To: Melas

I always thought that noise was just an inherent timing chain noise because of the twin cams.

Hall of engines link all the way back to knuckleheads

http://www.harley-davidson.com/EX/KNO/H101/en/hallofengines.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US&WebLogicSession=A9Wg2ZXAKyv3xIy2tiErXvzoLZZQtT6l46sIjhOJ6C452wN7qe23!-1636602063!181237813!7005!8005


170 posted on 07/20/2004 7:40:34 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: JoeSixPack1

Nope, you're hearing several chains in an 88B, and it creates kind of a harmony. It's a different sound than your typical primary chain running through the bath.


171 posted on 07/20/2004 7:46:00 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas

Engine harmonics!!! 2nd only to heat as an engine killer!

I started using the synthetic HD oil, 3 oil changes back and noticed the top end noise increased, so I think I'm going back to fossil oils this coming oil change. Too many distinct sounds to choose from, makes me crazy!! :-)


172 posted on 07/20/2004 7:55:08 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: -YYZ-
Good Evening All-

Posted by -YYZ-:
"...WOT..."

Whack on the throttle? War on Terror? I'm just trying to figure out the WOT acronym in your posts!

I had a friend who had a Yoshimura system on his Honda CBR 600F3 that sounded cool, somewhat throaty, but would get pretty loud if you consistently rode to his right. It became mandatory for preservation of your hearing to ride in front of him or to his left...even while wearing earplugs and a full-face helmet. I always wished he selected a Vance & Hines SS2R so I could hear that exhaust.

Needless to say, I don't think anyone ever considered cellophane wrap to end his riding days...

~ Blue Jays ~

173 posted on 07/20/2004 8:03:48 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: Blue Jays
Wide Open Throttle

OK, I got it now...

174 posted on 07/20/2004 8:09:24 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: Blue Jays

Sorry. That'd be Wide Open Throttle. Sometimes also referred to WFO, as someone already mentioned.

Then there's the one guy I know with a Kawi ZRX1100 with cams, pod filters, and a Muzzy megaphone exhaust with race baffle. At higher rpm and WOT it'll literally pretty near blow your eardrums out.

Or another guy I rode with who had Suzuki TL1000 (high compression, 10.5:1, 10,500 rpm redline 90 degree v-twin), the original home for the type of engine in my bike, with gutted Yosh slip-on cans. Sounded a lot like a Nascar racer, both in the character of the sound and the volume. Sweet, but brutally loud.


175 posted on 07/20/2004 8:13:01 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1

Oh cry me a river. Lol. I have a Sportster with forged pistons. I gotcher top end noise. I need loud pipes just to cover up the piston clatter.


176 posted on 07/20/2004 8:15:13 PM PDT by Melas
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To: -YYZ-; Capriole
*shrug* No particular offense taken. You sound like a standup kinda guy.

FWIW, when I see a biker white-lining thru slow traffic, I scootch over to give him/her more room to pass.

It's the people who habitually abuse their fellow citizens I don't like.

As you've noted, they tar all the riders.

Your suggestion, while still unacceptable in my mind, would most likely just result in a broken bike, although a sudden complete blowout of a front tire at speed could certainly cause a crash that could result in injury.

Not apt to pop a front tire, it's the spinning of the powered tire against a static saw blade that cuts into the tread. This would happen if the bike is essentially motionless with respect to the ground, a much less dangerous situation than boinging! off a saran wrap barrier.

I gave Capriole a significantly safer alternative, in the hopes that if he/she actually does do something the consequences won't include someone getting killed or worse.

Although I do confess that the thought of a biker who made "children and hikers jump into the bushes to avoid being hit" having to push his bike back past them gives me some pleasure...

177 posted on 07/20/2004 9:16:23 PM PDT by null and void (Middle East n. former name for the region commonly known as Oil Under Glass)
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To: cinFLA
OTOH, a harley backfiring into open pipes as it gears down for the stop sign near my house is also bad.

I followed one of those for several miles last Saturday on a group ride. Horrible sound, every time she let off the throttle. Other than that, it was a great ride... 48 chicks on a 100+ mile ride around Mt. Rainier... no boys allowed!

178 posted on 07/20/2004 9:23:33 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Monthly Donors NEVER need tons click "co-ordinating")
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To: Melas
This is settled easily. You're a Canadian, and I'm a Texan. You just wouldn't understand. No Texas cop is going to hassle a biker over loud pipes (well maybe the sandle wearing cops in Austin). This isn't liberal New York, and it's not Canada. Freedom still reigns here.

I wonder if the "He jes needed killin' " defense could come into play here.

Watch your 6...

179 posted on 07/20/2004 9:24:45 PM PDT by null and void (Middle East n. former name for the region commonly known as Oil Under Glass)
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To: Melas
Harley's are crippled off the showroom floor,

Why? (I have a guess)

180 posted on 07/20/2004 9:29:19 PM PDT by null and void (Middle East n. former name for the region commonly known as Oil Under Glass)
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To: Melas

LOL!


181 posted on 07/20/2004 9:31:13 PM PDT by null and void (Middle East n. former name for the region commonly known as Oil Under Glass)
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To: null and void

While it might appear that it's deliberate on the part of H-D to create sales for Screamin' Eagle parts, I think the real reason is that corking up the bike is the only way they can meet the DOT/EPA sound regulations. Air cooled engines naturally tend to produce more mechanical noise, which adds to any intake or exhaust noise. And styling requirments dictate air cleaners and mufflers of minimal volume. It is possible to flow a lot of air without making a lot of noise, but it requires a large volume airbox and large filter element, and large volume mufflers.


182 posted on 07/21/2004 5:39:15 AM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1

Yep, its just so easy to demonstrate the smallest consideration for those around you. Doesn't cost a thing, but it generally pays off big in the end.


183 posted on 07/21/2004 6:38:34 AM PDT by Badeye ("The day you stop learning, is the day you begin dying")
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To: -YYZ-; Melas

I would have guessed pollution control requirements.

Melas? You brought it up, what's your assertion?


184 posted on 07/21/2004 7:57:01 AM PDT by null and void (Middle East n. former name for the region commonly known as Oil Under Glass)
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To: null and void
It's more to meet the pollution requirements than the noise requirements, you're correct. Air cooled engines run at a much wider temperature range than their liquid cooled bretheren. A side effect here is more pollution and to a lesser extent noise.

HD gets around this by selling their bikes in an extremely lean state of tune, with a restrictive airbox and mufflers.

185 posted on 07/21/2004 10:17:35 AM PDT by Melas
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To: -YYZ-

Close, it's pollution. An extremely lean state of tune DESPITE having a very restrictive aircleaner and mufflers insures that you're burning as little fuel as possible, thus creating as little pollution as possible. Even with this state of tune, HD's are riding the fence on pollution regs.


186 posted on 07/21/2004 10:25:10 AM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas

Yeah, most bikes (and cars) are running leaner than ideal for power to meet EPA regs. Even modern-design liquid cooled bikes like mine with fuel injection are still running way leaner at some rpms than is ideal.

But the restrictive pipes and air cleaner are more to meet the noise regs, aren't they? You can probably leave the bike stock except for rejetting and improve drivability a lot and improve peak power a little. But for serious power gains you need more flow - pipes, air cleaner, maybe cams (which were also chosen with pollution in mind, no doubt).


187 posted on 07/21/2004 10:51:02 AM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: JoeSixPack1
I have heard of this happening on Milwaukee bikes more than once. It seems the penetrating capabilities of synthetic oil loosen EVERYTHING up real well. As a result, your bike may be running more smoothly and be far better lubricated, but it will sound like someone shaking a tool box and possibly wind up proving that those new oil gaskets H-D has come up with can still be bypassed.
188 posted on 07/22/2004 10:49:57 AM PDT by StarfireIV
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To: StarfireIV

The biggest benefit of synthetic is 'evenly sized gobules' that fill the surface defects of the cyl walls and anything else it slams into thus reducing friction and allowing an air cooled engine a little more survivability in 110degree summer traffic. But good old 60 weight HD should do the trick for me. We'll see.

<|:-)~~


189 posted on 07/22/2004 10:56:49 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: JoeSixPack1

Why use that overpriced HD oil (synthetic or regular, it is overpriced) when a 15W-40 dual rated CI-4/SL diesel/gasoline engine oil like Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo is $6/gallon? It has NO friction modifiers to cause problems with wet clutches, which is the only reason I've ever heard to use special "motorcycle" oil. It's also got significantly more detergents and ZDDP anti-wear additives. (The API was concerned about ZDDP's effect on catalytic convertors so typical gasoline engine oils have reduced levels of ZDDP).

Lots of information on this at the http://www.bobistheoilguy.com website -- check the motorcycle lubrication forum.


190 posted on 08/02/2004 1:00:16 PM PDT by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: -YYZ-

"Yeah, most bikes (and cars) are running leaner than ideal for power to meet EPA regs."

Not true for cars. There are no emissions limits that need to be met at wide-open-throttle, so there is nothing to "hold back" when the pedal is floored.

Also, if the mixture is too lean, NOx emissions go up, which the EPA also frowns upon.


191 posted on 08/02/2004 1:04:35 PM PDT by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: StarfireIV
I have heard of this happening on Milwaukee bikes more than once. It seems the penetrating capabilities of synthetic oil loosen EVERYTHING up real well. As a result, your bike may be running more smoothly and be far better lubricated, but it will sound like someone shaking a tool box and possibly wind up proving that those new oil gaskets H-D has come up with can still be bypassed.

 

Can this happen in an automobile? Year 2000 Mercury Marquis. I changed it's five quarts oil with just one of them synthetic oil plus added some Slick 50.

192 posted on 08/02/2004 1:14:21 PM PDT by dennisw (Once is Happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. The third time is Enemy action. - Ian Fleming)
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To: Capriole
I may use this for the morons on Harleys who are thundering through the narrow dirt nature preserve paths near my house, making children and hikers jump into the bushes to avoid being hit.

You are probable dealing with 4 wheelers. Illegal hunters like to use my dad's property (400 acres) near a nice river on the mountain. They gain main entrance up a creek bed, so dad put him several boards submerged in the shallow waters with big nails in it. After replacing their wheels a few times, the 4 wheelers finally got the idea. But dad would never put a wire/ect across the path, too dangerous/deadly.

193 posted on 08/02/2004 1:39:04 PM PDT by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: brianl703

Actually, the original reason I put the synthetic in was to aid in maintaining running temp a few hundred miles after I rebuilt the engine.

I orginally put the 20-50 HD in there when we built the motor I guess around this time last year. The only thing original are the cases, flywheel assembly, rocker boxes and covers and jugs. Also shaved the bottom of both jugs and punched em out but didn't stroke it.

Then my engine red light came on, two separate times, during two separate traffic jams here in Floriduh. I had about 500 to 600 miles on the rebuild when this happened. So I tossed around the idea of an oil cooler but couldn't come up with one that fit, or that I liked, or a price that fit my wallet, or one that would do what I wanted. So, in went the synthetic.

It is now time to go back to fossil oil.

I was a diesel jockey for years and my trucks lived for Rotella and Delo (sometimes both!). Being I'm connected with the local repair shop through a bloodline, I prefer HD or revtech.

HD holds a higher consistant pressure than Revtech, but Revtech runs a hair cooler because of the lower pressure.

Also, being it's August, I'm ugly and my breath stinks, I'll try some straight 50 HD until Sept or Oct. Then go back to a multi-grade.

She's putting out HP in the low 80's. Heavy bike too. 835lbs + me.

Take a look at this old write up from '94 at the listed URL below. Gives a good insight on lube properties.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm


194 posted on 08/02/2004 4:22:43 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: JoeSixPack1
"Then my engine red light came on"

Is that temp, or press?

195 posted on 08/02/2004 4:30:47 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

pressure.


196 posted on 08/02/2004 6:53:26 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Freedom Stands Because Heroes Serve.)
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To: LowOiL
You are probable dealing with 4 wheelers.

No. I keep saying this and no one on this forum believes me. I am dealing with large street bikes that have smooth road tires on them. I can count the wheels, and there are only two per bike!

Fortunately during a recent storm a big tree fell across the access path and I haven't had any trouble since. No bike can go over or around this.

197 posted on 08/02/2004 7:09:49 PM PDT by Capriole (DO NOT WRITE IN THIS SPACE. FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY.)
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To: JoeSixPack1

I wonder what results would have been if they'd tested some 15W-40 diesel engine oils. I believe those are more shear-stable (withstanding the effects of the gears--which tend to make an oil thinner by shearing the molecules apart--which could result in lower pressure at operating temperature).

Also, those tests were done back when API SG was the standard..we are now on API SL (very soon to be API SM). API SL requires big improvements in the base stocks over what API SH/SJ required. For example, a typical 5W-30 of API SG vintage could have been formulated entirely with Group I basestocks. Now, an API SL 5W-30 requires the use of hydrocracked Group II or Group II+ basestocks in order to meet the volatility requirements.

When API SL was proposed, the oil companies said that they would have to use synthetic (Group III or Group IV/V basestocks) to meet the requirements, but they were able to do it with conventional oil.


198 posted on 08/02/2004 8:24:27 PM PDT by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Chad Fairbanks

What is it with cops being there when you're a kid and ready to commit some heinous fun??? Same age as you, we were under a culvert bridge one day and lobbing big sloppy glops of mud up over the edge at a couple of cars going by and wouldn't you know the first one to take a plastering is a Moscow PD car. We spent the whole day on a march of exile to escape that...

A righteous splatter, one of my Northern VA friends was living in Turkey in the 70's and he plastered the windshield of a Soviet diplomats car and got to get chased by pissed off reds :-)


199 posted on 08/02/2004 8:44:52 PM PDT by Axenolith (This space for rent.)
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To: Blue Jays
With the pallet wrapping stuff 20 or 30 wraps would probably stop a car... Abruptly... With negative consequences...
200 posted on 08/02/2004 9:02:54 PM PDT by Axenolith (This space for rent.)
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