Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Legislators seek changes to Endangered Species Act (KLAMATH FALLS)
Associated Press ^ | July 17, 2004 | JEFF BARNARD

Posted on 07/19/2004 6:18:03 PM PDT by take

click here to read article

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last

1 posted on 07/19/2004 6:18:07 PM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head

endangered species ping

2 posted on 07/19/2004 7:04:13 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

please ping the list FF

3 posted on 07/19/2004 8:08:14 PM PDT by forester ( An economy that is overburdened by government eventually results in collapse)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: take; Jeff Head; SierraWasp; Carry_Okie; farmfriend

----Original Message----
From: Lee Riddle - Brookings, Ore
Sent: 7/18/2004 12:25:54 AM Pacific Standard Time
Subject: ESA Congressional Hearing ~ K Falls reportage

We got over to K Falls last night and made signs till midnight thirty or so

Got in the parade of about 800 ~ 850 People (and a horse "color guard") at 7 30 this morning hellow and marched through downtown K Falls to the Ross Raglund Theater

There was very heavy security, the whole downtown was closed off and cops were everywhere on bikes, foot, motorcycles

Afterwards we found out SWAT and Secret Service were on the scene, and maybe even more... perched on rooftops?

We gathered in front of the Theater to hear several speakers (one of which was Elliot Schwartz from Brookings) but then a drumming band of 40~80 ? "Klamath Tribe" supporters came up the street and proceeded to try to shout down the speakers, one of the whitie longhaired ones had salmon image shaped turban going through its head and carried a sign that said

"How would you like to be DAMNED ?"

Joan quickly confusilated him with facts I will never comprehend... (nuff said)... "hey he was all ready a potted plant" OK (Jesus)

We found out later that this Klamath Tribe March was in direct violation of what had been agreed to beforehand, between the leader of the tribe and the water users association, (the tribes were not going to be marching, then they were, but not there, but then they would not be confrontational, but they were) and thus the increased "police presence" (but no one got in a knock down fight situation, and there were no problems reported)

Off road jeepers were in the parade, and me with a pro farm sign (and a off road motorcycle T-shirt) held a sign that said "Curry & Del Norte Counties Support Klamath Agriculture" on one side, and "Victims of the ESA They Take My Land They Make Me Pay Fix the ESA~I Say" on the other side (that was the extent of any two wheeled troops) (where were you MRA ?)(Joni from Blue Ribbon was there)

Joan held the one that said "Salvage and Replant ~ The Burnt Biscuit" on one side and "Curry and Del Norte Counties Supports Klamath County Rights" on the other

Then we entered the Theater, dumped our metal items in the tray, walked through the metal detector, AND (pocket knives and signs ARE NOT allowed) (back to the truck) (try again) and this time I passed the metal detector and then got the special "wand" crotch test this time¦and even passed that one (shucks, And I thought I was a hard case..........) oh well(did I mention that security was on "red" ?) but i was code blue, so i got through

It is a huge wonderful theater, with great view of the stage Probably 200 people left after the march, so maybe 650 were seated in a place that holds 850, a pretty good turnout in busy times.

Then it got really interesting

Ken Calvert, the Chairman on Water and Power, California's 44th District Introduced the Congressional Panel:

Wally Herger 2cd District CA (pretty damn sharp)

John Doolittle 4Th District CA (does a LOT !! not a little!)

Greg Walden 2Cd District OR (does a lot, support this guy! )

These guys got quickly to the chase to determine "just what is the problem that farmers got crucified at Klamath?"

They really nailed Kirk Rodgers (Bureau of Reclamation), Steve Thompson (US~ Fish and Wildlife), Jim Lecky (NOAH Fisheries) to the cross in public.

The wiggleworms kept up the "just doing my job" mantra but Congress MAN "Doolittle" was just warming up, and pretty soon they were looking like three little wienies with their pants off

They had to admit that they were the ones that shut off the water for no good reason

They had to admit that they colluded among each other, had no good science, and admit that they harmed humans to death, and did not help "endangered species" one iota.

But still, they had suits and ties on anyway, and they were stuck on the hot seat bare butted. little weinies for all to see

The crowd loved it, perhaps it was all a show, but the questions from the congressmen were quite well thought out, and the cadence in which the questions were asked showed a well thought out agenda

The orchestration of this event, I believe, goes well beyond the "appeasement" of the injured attendants and a long way toward some real change for the positive in the near future.

We had our own Curry County Commissioner Ralph Brown giving testimony of the decimation of Pacific coast fishing industry, but not due to K Falls farming, rather to the ESA. I was outside afterwards with him as he was being interviewed by a green newswriter, who lost interest when his facts conflicted with her preconceptions.

Both Brown and Jimmy Smith (Humboldt Co Sup) were queried as to their affiliation with Glenn Spains group. Smith was weak on his response, Brown was not, he is a well educated, hard working man who continues to learn everyday. He reminded them to "think of the people", he gave a great speach, well considered of the loss the ESA has exacted upon the coastal human economy, in regards to fishing, logging income, giving figures as to the exact losses sustained to our communities.

Most interesting was Bill Gaines, California Waterfowl Association, who started out talking about his love affair with bird life, but ended up saying the Klamath Farmers are making MORE bird life than ever happened in history due to their irrigation and farming practice. Sounds like the "success of the goose" here on the coast to me (more in a minute)

The whole proceeding was very professional, the "tribes" representatives acted like undisciplined children, and were reminded several times to be considerate. Those who lost their farms or a family member showed so much resraint, it is hard to even imagine how they could do so.

The "media" will show whatever it wants to promote You just had to be there We had lunch with Grange, Blue Ribbon, OR Senate Candidates, Klamath Water Users, and more


They would like to see outside "peer review" of any decision BEFORE it takes an action to list something that would destroy your human existence

They would like to see Human Economic factors included in that equation

They want to sort out who has the authority to ruin your livelihood and why and how

And put some checks and balances there

They want to see that a science based plan, will result in successfully results in a species "delisting"for the action taken, the effort taken and the money spent.

They want to have un cooped science involved in the mix to rule out "agenda" (wildlands was kind of polititely brought up, without mentioning is ugly face)

And if the science based plan does not result in "species recovery " they want to see changes that work

No "agendas", they want a win win, more "species" and successful farms at the same time


And they want to know EXACTLY "how many" geese or suckers it takes to be "recovered", they want the goal number that we are shooting for, a plan to reach that goal, that non agenda people say will achieve the goal, and when we reach that goal, we reached the goal, and the species is RECOVERED - No more goal swapping,

They seem willing to appropriate Fed $ to projects that get measurable results "if" increased seasonal water storage at K Falls would result in improved wildlife and help humans at the same time (although that is in question)they seemed willing to pursue FED appropriations to achieve that and they wanted the BoR to provide info ASAP toward that goal (no more friggin around) in fact they wanted info from a number of people "in the next two weeks"

They are open in the next 9 days to input from the affected "public's" humans experiences

Tell them YOUR EXPERIENCE with the ESA

How do you want to see changes in the ESA

YOU have two ways to put testimony into the pot

Send to

or fax to


I think you should send a copy to Herger, Doolittle, and Walden at the same time

Those guys are first class

4 posted on 07/19/2004 8:21:13 PM PDT by forester ( An economy that is overburdened by government eventually results in collapse)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: take

Endangerd Suckers.

You could not stamp out this species if you brought to bear the united power of the Army, Navy, and Air force.

Lord have mercy.

5 posted on 07/19/2004 8:33:01 PM PDT by mercy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: forester
And they want to know EXACTLY "how many" geese or suckers it takes to be "recovered", they want the goal number that we are shooting for, a plan to reach that goal, that non agenda people say will achieve the goal, and when we reach that goal, we reached the goal, and the species is RECOVERED - No more goal swapping,

Remember the Optimal Sustainable Population criterion of the MMPA? They pull that one every time and it's the hardest to address in time. In short, you need your own model in advance of theirs so that when you hear their numbers you'll know what's wrong with them and where the bogus assumptios lie.

6 posted on 07/19/2004 8:48:15 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers three choices: fight, submit, or die.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: take; All
From the Vault of Old Causes:


To find all articles tagged or indexed using KlamathBasinCrisis, click below:
  click here >>> KlamathBasinCrisis <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

7 posted on 07/20/2004 12:23:00 AM PDT by backhoe ("It's so easy to spend someone else's money." [ My Dad, circa 1958])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: forester; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
8 posted on 07/20/2004 12:53:31 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: backhoe; *KlamathBasinCrisis


9 posted on 07/20/2004 12:58:18 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: take; Jeff Head; farmfriend

I admire anyone who takes on the enviro-nuts. Some ideas are good, but they have gone way beyond over they edge, ususally regarding property which they do not own. Talking about it as if it belonged to the "public." (No doubt they would say it does...)

Counties all over th state of WA are now having to pass resolutions to comply with new state law - interwoven with NEW and ONEROUS CRAZY regs that "helpful" county planners and "citizen planning boards" have added.

Hey people, I know we are the independent ones who just want to live our lives free- but if we do not get on these tedious boards, we will not even in theory own a piece of land. I guarantee you. And if you do not sleep soundly at night for fear of your government, you have good reason.

10 posted on 07/20/2004 1:15:17 PM PDT by Libertina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend


11 posted on 07/20/2004 1:28:54 PM PDT by E.G.C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: forester
Excellent report. Jimmy Smith is a pawn of the Greens here in Humboldt County plus he was a commercial fisherman. We did our best to unseat him in the last election but Humboldt co is competing for airheads from Santa Cruz and Berkeley and winning...
12 posted on 07/20/2004 1:44:50 PM PDT by tubebender (If I had known I would live this long I would have taken better care of myself...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: tubebender
Humboldt co

You didn't need to say anything else. The are well known for their agriculture.

13 posted on 07/20/2004 1:46:54 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
The Goverment are geting out of hand with this United Nations

Standoff in Passaic NJ: Home stormed by SWAT team over code violations (porch and windows) Home stormed over code violations Tuesday, July 20, 2004

PASSAIC - A crackdown on city housing violations escalated into a standoff Monday when a homeowner refused to cooperate, prompting authorities to call in a SWAT team, one that broke down a door and shot her with non-lethal weapons.Code enforcement officials arrived about noon, wanting to talk about, among other things, broken windows and a deteriorating porch - violations written three months ago, said

Community Development Director Donald Van Rensalier.

It just so happened that 109 Quincy St. was smack in the middle of an area targeted in Operation Clean Sweep, one of the mayor's initiatives to rid the city of substandard housing.

They knocked on the door of the crumbling 2½-story wood frame also to check out complaints that power had been shut off and the house operated on a generator, something authorities consider a hazard.That's when things started to go awry. The woman inside started hammering shut the doors and barricading windows."We heard a motor running and she wouldn't let us in," Van Rensalier said.

"We called the cops to help us out."In turn, police enlisted the Passaic County Sheriff's Department Emergency Response Team, who arrived in a truck sporting its motto, "We Make House Calls," and decked out in riot gear.

"I guess someone overreacted and called the SWAT team," Mayor Samuel Rivera said. "To have an ambulance and the crisis team from St. Mary's [Hospital] was enough. This person here is harmless."After making no headway, Sheriff Jerry Speziale, Police Chief Stanley Jarensky, and Rivera grabbed Rick Figueroa off the street, a mailman whose route was stymied when police cordoned off that stretch between Hamilton and Columbia avenues.

Authorities had him knock on the door to try to coax out the resident, a woman they kept calling "Mrs. Martin," though her identity has not been established.Records list Michael Martin as the property owner.When those tactics failed, armed officers stormed the back door. Glass shattered, a result of the woman breaking a second-floor window,Speziale said. Once they entered, she threw hammers and nails at them, authorities said. An officer fired one beanbag round.

Paramedics clad in riot helmets helped carry her out to a waiting ambulance as utility workers shut off power and electricity. Both accounts in the two-family building are in good standing, said PSE&G spokeswoman Jennifer Connell.

"We had a situation where we actually had to protect her from herself," Speziale said. "She was very out of character."The woman, who neighbors said has become something of an urban legend because children believe her house is haunted, was taken to St. Mary's Hospital."As far as I'm concerned, everything was done in an appropriate fashion," said Passaic County First Assistant Prosecutor Bruno Mongiardo.

"They used a minimal amount of force."Meantime, onlookers clustered behind crime scene tape, shaking their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about."We all know her on the block," said Eric Garcia, a Quincy Street resident. "She's always locked up in there and she doesn't want to come out.E-mail:

RIGHT FROM THE United Nations Community Development Director Donald Van Rensalier.

14 posted on 07/20/2004 2:43:23 PM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: take

Private Property May Become Preserved
Saturday, July 10, 2004

KING COUNTY, Wash. — Residents of King County, Wash., will only be able to build on 10 percent of their land, according to a new law being considered by the county government, which, if enacted, will be the most restrictive land use law in the nation.

Known as the 65-10 Rule (search), it calls for landowners to set aside 65 percent of their property and keep it in its natural, vegetative state. According to the rule, nothing can be built on this land, and if a tree is cut down, for example, it must be replanted. Building anything is out of the question.

Most of the residents who will be directly affected by the regulations — those who own property in the rural areas of the country — are fuming. They see the new regulations as a land grab and a violation of their property rights.

"My take is it's stealing — out and out stealing," said county resident Marshall Brenden. "They're taking 65 percent of your land that you fought for years to pay for, paid mortgages on and now you can't use it."

But supporters and environmentalists say personal property rights do not trump the rights of a larger community to save the eco-system (search).

"We're trying to keep the rural area a place that isn't just McMansions and ball courts, but instead has those natural processes," said Tim Trohimovich of the group 1000 Friends of Washington (search), which aims to promote healthy communities and cities while protecting farmland and forests.

The plan is being pushed by King County Executive Ron Sims, who is currently running for governor.

15 posted on 07/20/2004 3:59:11 PM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend; Jeff Head

Doesn't this ever end!

The FReep that keeps on giving!

Klamath Falls even predates 9/11

My 1st chance to meet fellow FReepers in Klamath Falls

16 posted on 07/20/2004 5:32:34 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Let the Water Flow!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; farmfriend; Carry_Okie; forester
IMHO, the ESA does not need to be needs to be abolished.

My understanding is that it is being administratively funded despite already having all accounts is should just be allowed to die.

But the really dirty secret is that they will not do this...there is too much political, contractural, social retructuring investment, there is also too much association with and enabling of other initiaitves, like many UN Agenda 21 programs. That's what this is really all about now, and the sooner folks realize it IMHO, the better.

17 posted on 07/20/2004 5:45:24 PM PDT by Jeff Head (
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head
RIGHT FROM THE United Nations Community Development Director

In very state now

18 posted on 07/20/2004 7:12:35 PM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head
That's what this is really all about now, and the sooner folks realize it IMHO, the better.


19 posted on 07/20/2004 10:00:32 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

My take on the Klamath Issue has changed a bit with my new role. A few days before this latest hearing, I met with folks from throughout the Klamath system - including reps. from commercial fisherfolk, tribes, environmentalists, upper and lower basin farmers and state and federal agency people. We had some good personal exchanges about our needs and hopes. Even worked out some "Guerilla" projects where individuals volunteered to stop irrigating for a few days to help bring salmon up the river. Had some good informational exchanges about projects being worked on in an atmosphere without interference by the big environmental groups who didn't show.

The problem I have is that the agency people want to integrate planning and management for the whole Klamath system under the umbrella of one superstructure. They are talking about a stakeholder Congress working with federal funding and a new bureacracy ("CIP" process paterned after the CVPIA.)This handily sidesteps and disenfranchises elected representative County government and its land and water planning jurisdiction. From experience with these big table processes, small communities end up with no voice in decisions and few scraps of funding for habitat restoration and mitigation. In fact, they end up being the sacrifice mitigation for the areas with more clout.

I have some real concerns about Walden and other Congresspersons seeking the universal fix. It will only serve to drag the people in the rest of the system into the vortex of the Klamath Project with its federal nexus, Section 7 Consultation, Oregon adjudication and tribal trust issues.

Was unable to attend the hearing due to other commitments.

20 posted on 07/20/2004 11:43:56 PM PDT by marsh2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson