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French DM: Sharon`s call for French Jews to emigrate is `unjust, excessive, inappropriate` (Reuters)
Haaretz News Ticker ^ | 7/23/2004 | Reuters

Posted on 07/23/2004 6:39:07 AM PDT by yonif

French Defence Minister: Sharon`s call for French Jews to emigrate to Israel is `unjust, excessive, inappropriate` (Reuters)


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; arielsharon; eurabia; europeanunion; france; israel; jacqueschirac; judeophobia; landofthejews
The anti-semitism in France is unjust, excessive and inappropriate.
1 posted on 07/23/2004 6:39:10 AM PDT by yonif
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To: yonif
French Defence Minister: Sharon`s call for French Jews to emigrate to Israel is `unjust, excessive, inappropriate` (Reuters)

They would rather have the Jews die in France and Germany than live in Israel.

2 posted on 07/23/2004 6:40:45 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: yonif

He really is being excessive about this. Sounds like "the wicked flee where no man pursueth" syndrome.


3 posted on 07/23/2004 6:42:12 AM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: yonif

Blaming the victim, as usual.


4 posted on 07/23/2004 6:44:41 AM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: yonif

Personally, I'd like to see the French Jews start fighting back against these thugs. Legally and literally.


5 posted on 07/23/2004 6:58:25 AM PDT by Kenton ("Life is tough, and it's really tough when you're stupid" - Damon Runyon)
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To: Kenton

There goes the tax payers.


6 posted on 07/23/2004 7:00:26 AM PDT by jocko12
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To: yonif

Ha. The truth hurts, eh Jacques? You lie down with dogs, you get fleas!


7 posted on 07/23/2004 7:18:10 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Proud to be a Reagan Alumna!)
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To: yonif
"The anti-semitism in France is unjust, excessive and inappropriate."

And nobody argues with that in France.

For all its faults, Chriac's record on antisemitism seems pretty clean to me. He was the first President who felt compelled to present excuses to the French Jewish community for the collaboration of certain authorities during WW2. Not even François Mitterrand, who had some Resistance credentials to show for it, did that. And I thinks it's Chirac who decided to have a special day of remembrance for the Holocaust victims. That Chirac can act as a complete idiot on other matters is an entirely different thing.

As for PM Sharon's declaration, I'd just like to point out it has not done well with the French Jewish organizations, who hardly are suspect of antisemitism. All of them expressed their dismay at having a foreign leader saying that the French Jews had to emigrate, and dictating them their conduct. It was, all in all, a very awkward declaration.
8 posted on 07/23/2004 7:27:41 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

Given the fact that Sharon made the comment in a speech to an American group, a speech designed to encourage American Jews to emigrate to Israel, the French are whining a bit too much.

9 posted on 07/23/2004 7:30:09 AM PDT by SJackson (He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983, Sandy Berger)
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To: SJackson

Even if the audience was not specifically French, it was a public statement, not a private remark. Frankly, is it a antisemitic or anti-Isreali attack to say that, at the very least, PM Sharon should have worded this more carefully ?

And if President Chirac had made a similar swipe at the US, even before a non-US audience, I respectfully believe I'd still be hearing about it, only people would say "outrage" instead of "whine".


10 posted on 07/23/2004 7:39:37 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: yonif
Sharon's advice should be taken seriously. Christians (there really aren't that many practicing Christians in France) should also consider leaving.
11 posted on 07/23/2004 7:59:43 AM PDT by Malesherbes
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To: Atlantic Friend
Even if the audience was not specifically French, it was a public statement, not a private remark. Frankly, is it a antisemitic or anti-Isreali attack to say that, at the very least, PM Sharon should have worded this more carefully ?...

Considering that's the the Prime Minister of the "shitty little country" in the view of the French diplomatic corps, and he's referring to a nation where a Jew is advised NOT to look like a Jew, I think he worded it just fine. The French can be offended, doesn't bother me and I doubt Sharon is losing much sleep over it.

And if President Chirac had made a similar swipe at the US, even before a non-US audience, I respectfully believe I'd still be hearing about it, only people would say "outrage" instead of "whine".

Right, we'd ban Chirac from visiting the US. Maybe break off relations.

Actually, if Chirac suggested American's of French heritage emigrate to France due to discrimination against French Americans, most people would fall down laughing.

You overlook a cultural difference.

It’s fair to say many Americans, certainly many on this board, are contemptuous of France. Canada too. But they don’t harass French Americans. Or Canadians.

France has every right to be contemptuous of the “shitty little country”. Based on that contempt, they do harass French Jews, or tolerate harassment.

Most Americans would consider that a form of bigotry.

12 posted on 07/23/2004 8:07:04 AM PDT by SJackson (He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983, Sandy Berger)
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To: yonif

Sure doesn't take much to push the Froggy's buttons.


13 posted on 07/23/2004 8:13:24 AM PDT by dennisw (Once is Happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. The third time is Enemy action. - Ian Fleming)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: SJackson

Well, the French JEWS were offended as well by PM Sharon's remarks, so I don't think it's something that can be so easily discarded as anti-Israeli attitude or sentiment, Mr Jackson.

As for "France harassing French Jews", as you put it, your wording implies it is an official policy to harass Jew citizens of this country. Could you please tell me what officially-sanctioned incidents or attacks you are refering to ? And where is the officially-sanctioned policy to tolerate antisemitism ?


15 posted on 07/23/2004 9:12:37 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: Dave Sangster
1) "Who are the antisemites then ?"

Newsflash : we are a country of 60 million inhabitants. Among this population there are active antisemites, exactly like in the USA, and as a matter of fact exactly like in every Western democracy. When Jewish graves were desecrated in New Zealand last week, I haven't seen too many posts implying the Kiwis were rabid antisemites, for example. And, exactly like in the USA, these people are a minority.

You also assume that the attacks have French citizens, from French descent, as the perpetrators, and with the complicity of the French authorities, who according to you more or less share the secret goal of destroying the Jews worldwide. So don't pull a "Michael Moore" on us and offer documented proof.

2) Massive involvement of French authorities in killing Jews

Man, the percentile of French Jews which survived the Occupation was around 60%, and it's more than many other occupied countries, like Belgium and Holland (where 40% survived). Funny you don't talk about Poland, where only 10% survived - but I guess it's classier to look the other way nowadays.

The Jewish defense organizations themselves said that these figures were a testimony to the vast numbers of French citizens who either hid, fed, helped escape or gave vital information to the persecuted Jews. So if I'm risible, I guess I'm in good company with these organizations. Please feel free to laugh at us.

3) Mitterrand

As for Mitterrand, I only said that he had some Resistance credential - which he has, regardless of what he did first. I did not like the man, and I did not like his Vichy past one little bit, even if he held a rather harmless post (French War Prisoners IIRC, but I may be wrong on that) but I'm honest enough not to attack his Resistance past.

4) The CRIF

Oh, so you're private to what the Jewish leaders in France REALLY think, even when they say other things in the media ? Wow, lucky you. Me, I'm just the average Joe, so excuse me if I'm not privy to insider information.

I can't argue with the CRIF quote, which basically amounts to : antisemitism is on the rise in France and it has escalated from verbal abuse to physical assault. Yes, it has, and that's why we have to take care of it urgently and vigorously, before it goes from physical assault to terror attacks. To me, an attack on a French Jew is an attack against every citizen. As for an attack against a foreign Jew, it would offend me even more.
16 posted on 07/23/2004 9:39:12 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: yonif

I think all Christians should leave France as well. They should all go back to Bethlehem. Let the Muslims have France.


17 posted on 07/23/2004 10:01:19 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: yonif

What a stupid comment. Why is it any of the French government's business if Israel encourages Jews to make aliyah?


18 posted on 07/23/2004 10:03:27 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl
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To: Atlantic Friend

What's your opinion on the opinion piece from The Scotsman in #14?

Is it not the case that France has set herself up against 'perfidious Albion', including the upstart Americans and the 'impossible' Jews?


19 posted on 07/23/2004 10:10:53 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: Atlantic Friend; headsonpikes; Cinnamon Girl; Dave Sangster
Well, the French JEWS were offended as well by PM Sharon's remarks, so I don't think it's something that can be so easily discarded as anti-Israeli attitude or sentiment, Mr Jackson.

Given the fact that they’re French, that doesn’t surprise me. Personally I’d just as soon see them stay and fight.

As for "France harassing French Jews", as you put it, your wording implies it is an official policy to harass Jew citizens of this country. Could you please tell me what officially-sanctioned incidents or attacks you are refering to ? And where is the officially-sanctioned policy to tolerate antisemitism ?

There’s no official policy that I’m aware of.

The fact that if I were to visit your country, I and my family would be advised not to wear a yarmulke or even something as innocuous as a mezuzah or Mogen David, anything identifying me as a Jew, is indicative of the existence of harassment. If you prefer another term, feel free to use it. Personally, I won’t visit France on the condition of hiding my faith.

BTW, during Chanukah a few years ago there was an incident of vandalism perpetrated against a Jewish family in Billings, Montana, a town of about 85,000 with a few dozen Jewish families. The vandals had seen a Menorah in their window, and threw a brick through the window. The police suggested removing the Menorah from the window, kind of like not wearing a yarmulke.

Church groups made paper Menorahs that Sunday. The town paper printed a Menorah centerfold in their next edition. By the end of Chanukah there were hundreds of Menorahs in windows of Billings.

I’d suggest that if France is serious about combating anti-Semitism, not tolerating it, they could learn something from Billings. Who knows, maybe some Frenchmen will wearing yamulkes, is support of their Jewish countrymen.

--------------------

Light in Montana: How One Town Said No to Hate

by Jo Clare Hartsig and Walter Wink

Montana, long known as “big sky” territory, is vast and beautiful, like all its northwestern neighbors. One might assume that there is room enough for everyone. Yet over the past decade the five-state area of Washington, Oregon, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana has been designated a “white homeland” for the Aryan Nation and growing numbers of kindred skinheads, Klan members, and other white supremacists. These groups have targeted nonwhites, Jews, gays, and lesbians for harassment, vandalism, and injury, which in some cases has led to murder.

In Billings, Montana (pop.83,000) there have been a number of hate crimes: desecration of a Jewish cemetery, threatening phone calls to Jewish citizens, swastikas painted on the home of an inter-racial couple. But it was something else that activated the people of faith and goodwill throughout the entire community.

On December 2, 1993, a brick was thrown through 5-year-old Isaac Schnitzer’s bedroom window. The brick and shards of glass were strewn all over the child’s bed. The reason? A menorah and other symbols of Jewish faith were stenciled on the glass as part of the family’s Hanukkah celebration. The account of the incident in the Billings Gazette the next day reported that Isaac’s mother, Tammie Schnitzer, was troubled by the advice she got from the investigating officer. He suggested that she remove the symbols. How would she explain this to her son?

Another mother in Billings was deeply touched by that question. She tried to imagine explaining to her children that they couldn’t have a Christmas tree in the window or a wreath on the door because it wasn’t safe. She remembered what happened when Hitler ordered the king of Denmark to force Danish Jews to wear the Star of David. The order was never carried out because the king himself and many other Danes chose to wear the yellow stars. The Nazis lost the ability to find their “enemies.”

There are several dozen Jewish families in Billings. This kind of tactic could effectively deter violence if enough people got involved. So Margaret McDonald phoned her pastor, the Rev. Keith Torney at the First Congregational United Church of Christ, and asked what he thought of having Sunday school children make paper cut-out menorahs for their own windows. He got on the phone with his clergy colleagues around town, and the following week menorahs appeared in the windows of hundreds of Christian homes. Asked about the danger of this action, police chief Wayne Inman told callers, “There’s greater risk in not doing it.”

Five days after the brick was thrown at the Schnitzer home, the Gazette published a full-page drawing of a menorah, along with a general invitation to put it up. By the end of the week at least six thousand homes (some accounts estimate up to ten thousand) were decorated with menorahs.

A sporting goods store got involved by displaying “Not in our town! No hate. No violence. Peace on earth” on its large billboard. Someone shot at it. Townpeople organized a vigil outside the synagogue during Sabbath services. That same night bricks and bullets shattered windows at Central Catholic High school, where an electric marquee read “Happy Hanukkah to our Jewish Friends.” The cat of a family with a menorah was killed with an arrow. Windows were broken at a United Methodist Church because of its menorah display. The car and house windows of six non-Jewish families were shattered. A note that said “Jew lover” was left on a car.

Eventually these incidents waned, but people continued in their efforts to support one another against hate crimes. After being visited at home and threatened by one of the local skinhead leaders, Tammie Schnitzer is now always accompanied by friends when she goes on her morning run. During the Passover holiday the following spring, 250 Christians joined their Jewish brothers and sisters in a traditional Seder meal. New friendships have formed, new traditions have started, and greater mutual understanding and respect have been achieved.

Last winter families all over Billings took out their menorahs to reaffirm their commitment to peace and religious tolerance. The light they shared in the community must be continuously rekindled until hate has been overcome

20 posted on 07/23/2004 11:32:38 AM PDT by SJackson (He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983, Sandy Berger)
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To: Atlantic Friend; SJackson; monkeyshine

France has a long and ugly history of anti-semitism. The climate for Jews in France has gotten increasingly bad in the past ten years and I suspect that, just as many attacks are not reported for fear of further incitement, some French Jews may be speaking out against Israel's public urging that they leave for fear of a more antagonistic social climate from the French public. Based on a recent stabbing attack on a yeshiva student during which the vermin attacker yelled "allah ackbar" it's not hard to see that the ever grown Muslim population in France is getting the upper hand.


21 posted on 07/23/2004 12:24:48 PM PDT by Cinnamon Girl
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To: SJackson
Par for the course.
22 posted on 07/23/2004 3:24:17 PM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid ("Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?" (Philip K. Dick.)
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To: Atlantic Friend; SJackson; af_vet_1981; dennisw; Cinnamon Girl; Lijahsbubbe; Alouette
What's wrong with the head of the Jewish state fulfilling his responsibilities?

Is he supposed to refrain from encouraging members of the Jewish diaspora to make aliyah?

That would be a very odd position to take, if you ask me.

23 posted on 07/23/2004 3:29:37 PM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid ("Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?" (Philip K. Dick.)
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To: yonif

I think they should leave France. The French are no friends of the Jews, and they will never manage their overburdening fanatical Muslim problem.


24 posted on 07/23/2004 3:34:49 PM PDT by earlyamerican
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To: Malesherbes

Rather than have Christians (and Jews) leave, I would encourage a 'Reconquest' of France, along the lines of the Spanish 'Reconquista' from the Moors that had invaded it in A.D. 711! We would all join in 'Onward Christian Soldiers' and the like, and fight them back all the way to their caliphate in Bagdad! I'm sure this time Sharon and his fellow-Israelis would gladly join us!


25 posted on 07/23/2004 3:39:42 PM PDT by Diogenes
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To: earlyamerican

France soon to be another Kosovo and Serbia.


26 posted on 07/23/2004 3:43:21 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: The Scourge of Yazid

Of course not, I'm not saying such a thing. But the fact is his wording offended the very people he was trying to convince to emigrate.


27 posted on 07/26/2004 12:00:42 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend
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