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Wrong Song of the South: The Dangerous Fallacies of Confederate Multiculturalism
Reason Online ^ | July 16, 2004 | David T. Beito and Charles W. Nuckolls

Posted on 07/23/2004 7:51:00 AM PDT by Captain Kirk

Wrong Song of the South: The Dangerous Fallacies of Confederate Multiculturalism.

David T. Beito and Charles W. Nuckolls

During the last decade, the League of the South and other “southern heritage” groups have fought to preserve the state flags of Georgia and Mississippi. Some members of the League have demanded that universities hire Southern born professors. Others have promoted antebellum style dances. Nearly all are quick to champion their “heroes,” including Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, against any slights.

The jargon of group rights and identity politics, normally the domain of the politically correct, permeates their pronouncements. In Georgia, a member of the League boasts that “our Southern heritage celebrates true diversity...and true multiculturalism.” Read the rest here.

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederate; dixie; dixielist; multiculturalism; reason; secession; slavery
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1 posted on 07/23/2004 7:51:02 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk

Ooops, the correct title is Wrong Song of the South


2 posted on 07/23/2004 7:52:19 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk

silly people, doncha know that diversity and multiculturism only go one way?


3 posted on 07/23/2004 7:54:12 AM PDT by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: camle

And "tolerance" as well. I always ask "Just how much crap
am I expected to tolerate?"


4 posted on 07/23/2004 7:57:06 AM PDT by davisfh
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To: Captain Kirk

I have no problem if they want to fly the Battle flag as part of their state flags to honor their fallen boys from that God awful war. What I find disgusting is their idea of carrying the civil war on and on and on and on..stuck forever in the past while the rest of those in the south who have forgotten that useless and wastful war, move foreward.


5 posted on 07/23/2004 8:01:11 AM PDT by crz
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To: Captain Kirk
Historian Jeffrey Rogers Hummel persuasively contends that had Lincoln let South Carolina and its allies leave prior to the firing on Fort Sumter, the Upper South would have stayed in the Union.

Perhaps; but what a precedent that would have been! An open invitation for every disaffected state at any point in the future to simply take its marbles and go home.

6 posted on 07/23/2004 8:04:40 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham ("This house is sho' gone crazy!")
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To: Captain Kirk
These groups identified are not multicultural at all, they only want to preserve Southern culture. What is wrong with that? I think every group should celebrate their culture and heritage whether it be Irish, Italian, African, Scandinavian, Asian, Jewish, etc. Celebrating your heritage and culture does not make you any less an "American" if not carried to an extreme.
7 posted on 07/23/2004 8:11:28 AM PDT by MBB1984
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To: MBB1984
What is wrong with that?

They're white. They're not allowed to have culture.

8 posted on 07/23/2004 8:12:50 AM PDT by TBarnett34 (CA Dems: "Ohmigawd! We are soooo not girly!")
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To: Captain Kirk
Others have promoted antebellum style dances.

Scandalous. Utterly scandalous.

9 posted on 07/23/2004 8:12:54 AM PDT by NCjim
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To: stainlessbanner

Ping


10 posted on 07/23/2004 8:13:48 AM PDT by CurlyBill (We don't need a Gigolo and an Ambulance Chaser overseeing our Treasury!)
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To: Captain Kirk

Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the suppression of voting rights, all of this is the proper heritage of the Democratic Party in the US. It is a mistake for a Republican to get involved in trying to smooth over the crimes of the Democratic Party.

We were the good guys in this, and we should give ourselves credit for it. If Black Americans for a time have sided with the party of their oppressors out of some kind of weird Stockholme Syndrom, it doesn't change history. The history is the the Democratic Party supported slavery, resisted every attempt to limit it or do away with it, resisted any kind of political liberty for a significant portion of her populace, fought anti-lynching laws, legalized oppression, and fought against political equality right up until the very end.

Thats their history. Let them defend it.


11 posted on 07/23/2004 8:13:52 AM PDT by marron
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
>>An open invitation for every disaffected state at any point in the future to simply take its marbles and go home.

Hmmmmm, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Consider the United States without Massachusetts, California, and the other liberal states! I'd support their secession in a heartbeat! LOL!

12 posted on 07/23/2004 8:14:52 AM PDT by Georgia_Patriot_1973
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
Perhaps; but what a precedent that would have been! An open invitation for every disaffected state at any point in the future to simply take its marbles and go home.

And the threat that states might do so would have prevented a great many central government power grabs over the last 150 years. We actually might still be able to refer to the United States in the plural, as we did before the Civil War.

13 posted on 07/23/2004 8:15:02 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: crz

You don't mind if I grab some popcorn and sit back to watch this thread do you? ;-)


14 posted on 07/23/2004 8:15:10 AM PDT by kenth
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
An open invitation for every disaffected state at any point in the future to simply take its marbles and go home.

Point taken, but at what time does the "United" in "United States" become a sham? And given the current trend toward federalization of everything, how do places like rural North Carolina, for instance, prevent the morals and social ethics of places like Boston and San Francisco from being shoved down our throats?

15 posted on 07/23/2004 8:19:31 AM PDT by NCSteve
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To: crz

I take issue with your notion. I don't believe anyone is really trying to fight the Civil War all over again. The battle being fought is essentially whether or not the South can honor it's heritage. Flags are being banned; in some areas Confederate fighters are not allowed to be recognized or honored, memorials are being protested, and there is the ongoing villification of all things southern. The current day fighting of the Civil War, if there that is what you call it, is primarily being done by those who want to banish any semblance of Confederate history.


16 posted on 07/23/2004 8:22:07 AM PDT by CurlyBill (We don't need a Gigolo and an Ambulance Chaser overseeing our Treasury!)
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To: *dixie_list; carenot; carton253; sionnsar; Free Trapper; dcwusmc; Wampus SC; Fiddlstix; ...

dixie bump


17 posted on 07/23/2004 8:27:19 AM PDT by stainlessbanner (Never buy a saddle until you have met the horse)
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To: kenth

Yeah, it'll be about as entertaining as kicking over a hornet's nest and watching the results (grin).

That being said, I'm a Southerner, born and bred but I agree with both crz and Blazing Arizona's posts on the matter.


18 posted on 07/23/2004 8:28:42 AM PDT by Lakeside
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To: CurlyBill
Curly,

Unfortunately, there are actually two fights going on over the WBTS: One to preserve history (by such groups as the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy) and the other for white supremacy and/or secession now (by the League of the South, Conservative Citizens' Councils, etc.). The damnyankee liberal types are very good at tarring the efforts of the preservations with the brush of the white supremacists. That is certainly not fair and is not the intent of the preservationists, but the nutjob "neo-Confederates" play right into the stereotypes.

Deo Vindice!
19 posted on 07/23/2004 8:32:22 AM PDT by RebelBanker (Now I understand! "Allah" is Arabic for "Satan.")
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To: BlazingArizona
In the 1850s, some folks in Wisconsin made very mild mention of seceding from the Union over the Fugitive Slave Law.

An obscure personage from Mississippi said that if any Northern state attempted to secede over the slavery issue, that state would be brought back into the Union with all force necessary.

Said obscure personage was one Jefferson Davis.

20 posted on 07/23/2004 8:33:28 AM PDT by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden)
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To: RebelBanker

Those people you mention are exremely few in number. For every one of them, you have about 1,000 people out there race hustling and trying to profit from keeping this issue alive. The anti-Confederate movement has become a profitable industry for the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and others. They keep the frenzy whipped up and the money flowing! Unfortunately, there are a number of people.... even some on our side of the isle, who get sucked into their web of political correctness.


21 posted on 07/23/2004 8:37:58 AM PDT by CurlyBill (We don't need a Gigolo and an Ambulance Chaser overseeing our Treasury!)
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To: CurlyBill
The whole "multiculturalism" argument is a sham. There were Irish, Scott, British, French, African, Caribbean, Cherokee, Seminole, Creek, and Jewish who served the Southern forces.

For educated professors, this is a shoddy article. Hummel's highly regarded work is head and shoulders above this piece.

22 posted on 07/23/2004 8:38:39 AM PDT by stainlessbanner (Never buy a saddle until you have met the horse)
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To: Captain Kirk
If the Confederate multiculturalists believe in liberty, as many of them assert, they will stop waving the Stars and Bars, abandon the cause of a nation state that championed an unforgivable violation of inalienable rights, and embrace the rich American heritage of individualism.

Confederate history is American history!

Nothing displays individualism more than the sovereignty of a state, the people.

23 posted on 07/23/2004 8:43:29 AM PDT by stainlessbanner (Never buy a saddle until you have met the horse)
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To: CurlyBill
I can not confirm the ratio, but I agree that there a LOT more race hustlers and such type critters than real bad neo-Confederates/white supremacists. The empirical evidence is the typical ratio of protesters to marchers at any KKK rally.

Deo Vindice!
24 posted on 07/23/2004 8:46:37 AM PDT by RebelBanker (Now I understand! "Allah" is Arabic for "Satan.")
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To: TBarnett34
"They're white. They're not allowed to have culture."

Hmmm. That culture has been bleached out? Then, I'll consider myself "dark white"...

25 posted on 07/23/2004 8:48:04 AM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

Would you contend that no member of the United Nations should have the right to withdraw once they have become a member?


26 posted on 07/23/2004 9:08:14 AM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
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To: Captain Kirk

Read later.


27 posted on 07/23/2004 9:11:38 AM PDT by EagleMamaMT
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To: Poohbah

In the 1850s, some folks in Wisconsin made very mild mention of seceding from the Union over the Fugitive Slave Law.
An obscure personage from Mississippi said that if any Northern state attempted to secede over the slavery issue, that state would be brought back into the Union with all force necessary.

"Said obscure personage was one Jefferson Davis."

I am unaware of this but if it is true then Jefferson Davis was just as wrong as Lincoln. I don't believe that any state joined the Union expecting that they could never withdraw under any circumstances.


28 posted on 07/23/2004 9:14:01 AM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
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To: MBB1984

You are exactly right, and we all should be allowed to celebrate the most important one. We are Americans and free, except according to the liberals.Bush/Cheney 2004


29 posted on 07/23/2004 9:17:23 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat (These Colors Never Run)
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To: RipSawyer
Would you contend that no member of the United Nations should have the right to withdraw once they have become a member?

The United Nations is a club, not a polity.

30 posted on 07/23/2004 9:22:35 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham ("This house is sho' gone crazy!")
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To: NCSteve
Point taken, but at what time does the "United" in "United States" become a sham? And given the current trend toward federalization of everything, how do places like rural North Carolina, for instance, prevent the morals and social ethics of places like Boston and San Francisco from being shoved down our throats?

Well, at what point do the morals and social ethics of northern New Jersey become an imposition on those of southern New Jersey? The result of easy secession is to ensure that every level of political organization, from national, to state; even to local, are liable to fragmentation on the basis of disagreements that should be addressed as part of the political process. Human nature being what it is, people will pay a great deal of lip service to majority rule, but when they end up in the minority they don't want to play the game anymore.

31 posted on 07/23/2004 9:26:03 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham ("This house is sho' gone crazy!")
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To: Captain Kirk; LoudRepublicangirl; smonk; Sybeck1; RKB-AFG; dixiechick2000; onyx; flying Elvis; ...

MS PIng


32 posted on 07/23/2004 9:30:22 AM PDT by WKB (3!~ Does a clean house indicate that Free Republic is down")
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To: Poohbah

There you have it!


33 posted on 07/23/2004 9:53:04 AM PDT by crz
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To: Captain Kirk

Its ok for everyone to celebrate and show respect to their heritage except me.


34 posted on 07/23/2004 10:07:46 AM PDT by vetvetdoug (In memory of S/Sgt. Segundo "Dean" Baldonado, Albuquerque, NM-KIA Bien Hoa AFB, RVN 1965)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
Well, at what point do the morals and social ethics of northern New Jersey become an imposition on those of southern New Jersey?

It's not the same thing. North and South New Jersey were not organized into states. The whole basis of our constitution is a confederation of localities whose granularity is the states. It was the clear intention of the founders that politics and the social contract were purely local concerns. Without sparking the whole argument over whether the War of Northern Aggression (sorry, couldn't resist) was about slavery or not, I would offer that the major underlying concern our ancestors had was that the Federal gubmint was becoming to powerful and too pervasive. Time has shown those to be reasonable concerns.

Besides, the reason the rest of the Union (read that the Northeast) reacted so strongly and aggressively was that secession by the Southern states would have represented a major economic blow to them. That was why the secession tactic had teeth. To think that the North acted altruistically to preserve the Union is just as silly as the opinion that the South seceded solely on the basis of an altruistic protection of states' rights. But I digress...

The problem lies in just what this article reports. Why is multiculturalism good for a whole array of ideologies and belief systems and not for those who revere the Confederacy? We in the South are expected to accept and even assimilate a whole array of abhorrent ideas, from gay marriage to abortion, yet somehow it is evil to honor a group of people who believed so strongly in the founding principles of their nation that they would fight and die for it.

The South felt they could no longer rationally debate the issue or be constructively involved, and in those cases, sometimes it is better to just walk away.

35 posted on 07/23/2004 10:16:03 AM PDT by NCSteve
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: crz
personally, i know of NOBODY who is stuck in the past.

we continue thr struggle for dixie LIBERTY today by other means than arms.

free dixie,sw

37 posted on 07/23/2004 11:40:05 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: crz
personally, i know of NOBODY who is stuck in the past.

we continue the struggle for dixie LIBERTY today by other means than arms.

free dixie,sw

38 posted on 07/23/2004 11:40:11 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: TBarnett34
MANY of us southrons are NOT white.

free dixie,sw

39 posted on 07/23/2004 11:41:08 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: CurlyBill
TRUE!

free dixie,sw

40 posted on 07/23/2004 11:42:15 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: CurlyBill

YEP!


41 posted on 07/23/2004 11:43:13 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
"An invitation to every disaffected state to pick up its marbles and go home,"

As would have happened with California and Nevada. One of the reasons for the development of both the Pony Express and Western Union telegraph was to give California a sense of connection to the rest of the nation. Few Americans are aware of the fact that Americans were not a majority in the state. The gold fields had attracted people from as far as Australia, Chile, China, and Europe. These, together with disenfranchised Mexicans had little in common with America.

A nation using the wealth of the gold fields, the richness of the agriculture, the location for trade, and a synpathetic nation in Britain, with British Columbia to the north may not only have seceded, but done so successfully. So allowing the secession of the Lower South would set a precedent that could truly destroy the Republic.

42 posted on 07/23/2004 12:12:24 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (" You have never tasted freedom my friend, else you would know, it is purchased not with gold, but w)
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bump


43 posted on 07/23/2004 12:14:43 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

"The United Nations is a club, not a polity."


Then why is this "club" attempting to claim jurisdiction over internal matters of the United States. This nation originated as an assemblage of sovereign states with the powers of the central government limited to those spelled out in the constitution and it has evolved to the current status in which one hardly dares go to the bathroom without permission from the central government. The United Nations will follow the same pattern if allowed to.

Would you dare to even suggest that South Carolina agreed to join the Union with full knowledge that she could never leave? I was born and raised in this state and I would consider the suggestion absurd.


44 posted on 07/23/2004 12:27:32 PM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
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To: vetvetdoug

"Its ok for everyone to celebrate and show respect to their heritage except me."


I sympathize, I am a six foot four inch, two hundred and fifty pound white male with a surname which apparently traces back to the Viking invaders of England, descended from Confederate veterans on both sides. I was born in the true Cradle of the Confederacy, the county where the first secession meeting was held and where almost everything that existed prior to The War of Northern Aggression was destroyed by Sherman's troops. Besides that I am heterosexual and consider Rush Limbaugh to be a promoter of big government. I am surprised that I have not been hunted down and shot.


45 posted on 07/23/2004 12:49:08 PM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
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To: WKB; wardaddy; dixiechick2000; bourbon; Yudan; vetvetdoug

It's here-they-go-again-time.
More hate coming from the folks
who accuse us of hate. LOL!
Damn this has grown tiresome.
Like a broken record.
Bless their hearts.


46 posted on 07/23/2004 12:59:32 PM PDT by onyx (Kerry '04: The Sears Tower is just an eyesore.)
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To: RipSawyer

Superbly stated.


47 posted on 07/23/2004 2:55:04 PM PDT by onyx (Kerry '04: The Sears Tower is just an eyesore.)
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To: crz
....stuck forever in the past while the rest of those in the south who have forgotten that useless and wastful war, move foreward.

Did someone say, "Move on!"?

48 posted on 07/23/2004 3:17:27 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
The United Nations is a club, not a polity.

If they send a Chinese mechanized infantry corps to your town, they won't be.

49 posted on 07/23/2004 3:24:27 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: RipSawyer
I am unaware of this but if it is true then Jefferson Davis was just as wrong as Lincoln. I don't believe that any state joined the Union expecting that they could never withdraw under any circumstances.

If that's so, they were very naive, because (correct me if I'm mistaken) the Constitution makes no provision for it.

50 posted on 07/23/2004 5:41:35 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham ("This house is sho' gone crazy!")
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