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Russia's Putin orders 'Stalingrad' on tomb
AP ^
| July 23, 2004
Posted on 07/23/2004 6:40:51 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Stalingrad was the pivotal battle, no doubt about it. Everybody on earth [excepting certain central Europeans] breathed a sigh of relief and the Russians were ten feet tall.
2
posted on
07/23/2004 6:43:57 PM PDT
by
RightWhale
(Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
To: Tailgunner Joe
I agree on this one, PC garbage does not true history make.
3
posted on
07/23/2004 6:52:11 PM PDT
by
Ursus arctos horribilis
("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
To: RightWhale
Exactly so.
A bit tangential perhaps, but I saw 'Enemy at the Gates' at the theater in San Jose with some friends. We were sitting behind a (very likely liberal) yuppie couple- the female *could not fathom* the scene where the Chekist ordered the machine gun crew to mow down their own retreating troops. I answered with a comment to my companion along the lines of 'Communism in action'. Point made.
4
posted on
07/23/2004 6:53:19 PM PDT
by
Riley
(Need an experienced computer tech in the DC Metro area? I'm looking. Freepmail for details.)
To: RightWhale
If you are interested in the battle for Stalingrad, I highly recommend the book Enemy at the Gates. Unlike the movie, which highlights the Zaitzev/Koening (Sp) sniper duel, the book tells the entire story of the battle with copious first person accounts from privates to generals of how the battle progressed. The book is extrememly well written and is a fast read.
5
posted on
07/23/2004 6:55:08 PM PDT
by
USNBandit
(Florida military absentee voter number 537.)
To: Riley
I consider myself a part of the worldwide celebration since I was born a little over 3/4 a year later. LOL
6
posted on
07/23/2004 6:56:24 PM PDT
by
RightWhale
(Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
To: Tailgunner Joe
Putin's a scary guy. When I read about him wanting to return things to the way they used to be, it makes me wonder, what's next?
7
posted on
07/23/2004 6:56:47 PM PDT
by
nuconvert
(Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror and you wouldn't have been notified.)
To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Was it PC garbage when Russians learned that Stalin was the greatest mass murder in history so they toppled his statues and removed his name from places of veneration?
8
posted on
07/23/2004 6:59:17 PM PDT
by
Tailgunner Joe
("Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people.")
To: USNBandit
It was a bad decision by German high command to give up their greatest weapon--maneuverability--and sit and slug it out. Too bad for them. Anybody shed a tear?
9
posted on
07/23/2004 7:00:46 PM PDT
by
RightWhale
(Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
To: Tailgunner Joe
The issue is the name of the city and the name of the battle. Stalin, the man, is peripheral in this instance.
All of the folks there who fought on our side thought of themselves as present at the Battle of Stalingrad, not some other thing, and that was the case whether they liked or didn't like Stalin.
The guys on the other side, who fought againt our interests, also thought they were at the Battle of Stalingrd.
I think it was a Cornelius Ryan book where I first read about this part of WWII. He noted that despite meat rationing at home, canned Spam, courtesy of the people of the United States, was generally available to the Russian defenders.
They needed it. This was truly an horrific battle with every living nightmare possible in warfare.
It's time to leave it alone.
10
posted on
07/23/2004 7:07:39 PM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: muawiyah
The issue is that the inscription on the monument read "Volgograd" and has only now been changed back to "Stalingrad" because people have forgotten why the name of the city was changed in the first place.
If it's "time to leave it alone" then why didn't they?
They did this to placate a certain political faction, they should expect a backlash from those who oppose reviving Soviet symbols.
11
posted on
07/23/2004 7:18:46 PM PDT
by
Tailgunner Joe
("Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people.")
To: RightWhale
I gotta think the OKH were pulling their hair out as they fed the meatgrinder on the Volga in obedience to Grofaz's desire to engage in a pissing contest.
12
posted on
07/23/2004 7:23:07 PM PDT
by
Hoplite
To: Tailgunner Joe
The "Stalingrad" notation was changed in a massive fit of PC. We in the West did not cease referring to it as the "Battle of Stalingrad". I'm pretty sure the Russian surviving veterans didn't either.
There's nothing wrong with undoing excess.
Now, regarding Putin's motives, that's another thing. He won't be remembered as long as that particular battle.
13
posted on
07/23/2004 7:23:13 PM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: RightWhale
The number of KIA/captured Germans is almost unfathomable.
To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Crazy ass Stalin decimated the ranks of Soviet generals on the eve of WW2. He deserves zero credit.
15
posted on
07/23/2004 7:28:03 PM PDT
by
dennisw
(Once is Happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. The third time is Enemy action. - Ian Fleming)
To: muawiyah
The name of the city was changed in 1961. The monument was dedicated in 1967. It always said "Volgograd." It was not changed in a "fit of PC."
Until now.
16
posted on
07/23/2004 7:30:42 PM PDT
by
Tailgunner Joe
("Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people.")
To: Riley
15,000 Soviet troops were executed by the Soviet NKVD during the Battle of Stalingrad (according to Antony Beetor, who wrote an extensive book on the battle).
17
posted on
07/23/2004 7:31:40 PM PDT
by
Guillermo
(It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad)
To: Tailgunner Joe
No. It was fact. The Russians did the right thing to topple his statues. This, IMHO, is less about Stalin the man, than about the battle that happened in the city named for him.
The city where the battle happened was called Stalingrad at the time of the battle. That is why it should say Stalingrad (Volgograd, the present name, is not an alternate name like Bull Run vs. Manassas, but an anachronism, the city having been renamed after Stalin's death.
To: Tailgunner Joe
The battle was always "Battle of Stalingrad" in the United States, and we financed it.
I'm glad to see the Russians finally saw the wisdom of accepting our counsel.
19
posted on
07/23/2004 7:39:12 PM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Yes, agreed.
Russian WW2 memorials are awesome works.
20
posted on
07/23/2004 7:39:25 PM PDT
by
1066AD
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