Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

America Online Can Fire Gun-Owning Employees
NRA ^ | July 23, 2004 | NRA

Posted on 07/23/2004 6:56:58 PM PDT by TYVets

America Online Can Fire Gun-Owning Employees Utah High Court Rules Friday, July 23, 2004

Self-defense took a big blow this week when the Utah Supreme Court upheld the right of America Online (AOL), America`s largest on-line service provider, to fire three employees whose firearms were stored in the trunks of their cars in the parking lot of an AOL call center in Ogden, Utah.

In a decision that diminishes rights guaranteed under both the Utah and the U.S. Constitution, the court acknowledged the individual right to keep and bear arms, but said the right of a business to regulate its own property is more important!

Complying with this decision could potentially cost an employee his or her life--violent criminals certainly aren`t going to obey such a ban.

It may also diminish employees` abilities to hunt or target shoot after work.

The issue is becoming a hot legislative topic in the states. This year Oklahoma passed HB 2122 ensuring that employees with guns in their cars were not fired or harassed, and it was debated in several other states.

Please look to future editions of the Grassroots Alert for developing information on this issue.


TOPICS: Announcements; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aol; automobles; bang; banglist; concealedcarry; faol; guns; rhodesia
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-268 next last
To: jwalsh07

That could be, but I suspect you might be wrong. But on this one, rare as it may be, I could be wrong. Oh the horror. :)


51 posted on 07/23/2004 7:36:49 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: All

Attention all potential criminals. If your looking to rob or rape anyone wait outside a AOL parking lot and follow your victim when they leave our parking lot. When they stop, do what you will with your victim. And next time your looking for a internet provider remember who disarmed your victims for you.


52 posted on 07/23/2004 7:37:07 PM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's floats, Mary Jo's don't!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone

If they held pro-Kerry signs and shotguns but did so in a peaceful non-threatening manner (doubtful given that they are mean-spirited liberals), I don't believe I have a right to order them off my driveway if they just happen to be standing there and not obstructing anything. Maybe they are unhappy with my pro-Bush sign.

If they stand there too long, I will have them arrested for loitering.

But you are making an apples and oranges argument. An employer's rights are not the same as a homeowner's. As a business, you are subject to certain laws covering businesses that do not apply to homeowners.

True, employers can generally have the right to hire and fire as they please. My problem is with the specific policy they are trying to implement and the invasion of privacy they necessarily take to determine whether someone has a weapon in the locked trunk of their car.

Again, let's say they had marijuana (something that's illegal as opposed to guns) locked in their glove compartment. Does AOL have the right to break into your car and search the glove compartment in order to prove whether you have brought an illegal substance onto their property?


53 posted on 07/23/2004 7:37:59 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (Ronald Reagan - Greatest President of the 20th Century.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Mulder
Corporations are individuals who own varying amount of the company. At its basest, you would have me. I own my small company and I set the rules. If I can't then my property isn't mine and somebody has made a sham of the 14th Amendment.

I didn't like the rules of the corporations I worked for. I left. As RR was wont to say, vote with your feet.

I also don't like anything about AOL but if you can bring your gun on AOL's property, then you can bring it on mine and I'm not having none of it. Unless of course, we were buds. :-}

54 posted on 07/23/2004 7:38:52 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: BADROTOFINGER

I hope that property rights are soon recognized for bar and restaurant owners on the smoking issue. I prefer non-smoking restaurants, but I support the owner's right to make a market or preference based decision on whether to allow smoking. It just makes common sense.

As I read the Bill of Rights, most of the freedoms are applied to government action, not private action. For example, government has to give due process, but private individuals and businesses don't. The private sector can ban speech under its control, while government can't. We may disagree with private policies that restrict, say, gun ownership by hiring policies or free speech by editorial positions, but these don't rise to the level of constitutional violations since no government action is taken.


55 posted on 07/23/2004 7:39:21 PM PDT by NCLaw441
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Torie
Not so long ago my friend. CT Supreme Court ruled last week that unions have no "right" to pass out union literature in privately owned malls.

Will wonders never cease? :-}

56 posted on 07/23/2004 7:40:19 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: TYVets

My company does it too. If there were a shooting situation at work, the company can be held liable. Its standard CYA. If I can't deal with it, I can work somewhere else.


58 posted on 07/23/2004 7:41:07 PM PDT by oyez (¡Qué viva la revolución de Reagan!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: isthisnickcool
Doesn't the person own the car? And what's in it? It's their property.

Sure. But you don't have a right to a job.

59 posted on 07/23/2004 7:41:22 PM PDT by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Torie

Well, one things for damn sure, one of us yahoos is wrong. LOL


60 posted on 07/23/2004 7:41:25 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: TYVets

Does this also mean they also own your car once it hits their property? Or they have a right to search your car for what ever reason they trump up? Screw AOL. They will never get my business.


61 posted on 07/23/2004 7:43:18 PM PDT by BriarBey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tax Government
"Self-defense took a big blow. False and hypberbolic. Do we expect this from NRA?"

Late at night, or daylight for that matter, have you ever driven though certain parts of Kansas City or St Louis, Missouri on your way home from work?

Personally, I would prefer an armed and armored motorcade.

62 posted on 07/23/2004 7:43:21 PM PDT by TYVets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: twntaipan
No, and that is not on point. This is a far more public accessible location--a parking lot.

The road, which I own, to my house is a quarter mile long. Which parts of it should I allow folks to carry guns on?

64 posted on 07/23/2004 7:43:52 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07

Well I am not going to bet. You are armed and dangerous when it comes to Constitutional Law. What little I know, I typically have to look up. And I am relying on memory on this one. That won't cut it.


65 posted on 07/23/2004 7:44:44 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: NCLaw441
I hope that property rights are soon recognized for bar and restaurant owners on the smoking issue. I prefer non-smoking restaurants, but I support the owner's right to make a market or preference based decision on whether to allow smoking. It just makes common sense.

Good point.

66 posted on 07/23/2004 7:45:16 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: twntaipan

Unless I'm thinking about another case I thought the employees in this one were not parked on AOL property but next to it in a lot some employees use when some liberal bed wetters saw the guns and whined about it.


67 posted on 07/23/2004 7:45:22 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult ("Read Hillary's hips. I never had sex with that woman.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07

IIRC the employees were transferring firearms from the truck of one car to trunk of another to go hunting.

What would be the situation if AOL had a policy of "no newspapers on the premises" and a few employees were caught with copies of the New York Times? Any difference you think?
First amendment/second ammendment.


68 posted on 07/23/2004 7:47:21 PM PDT by tex9mm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
The road, which I own, to my house is a quarter mile long. Which parts of it should I allow folks to carry guns on? If you lived where I live, your spread would be worth about 30 million dollars. Raw land goes for about one million an acre now, assuming no views.
69 posted on 07/23/2004 7:48:11 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

Comment #70 Removed by Moderator

To: Dog Gone

I bet that if people would look at many of the larger corporations you'd find they have rules against employees having fire arms, alcohol, drugs, etc in their possession on the company property.... Thus in your car, locked up is in your possession and if it's on the company property [parking lot] then it's a violation.


71 posted on 07/23/2004 7:50:46 PM PDT by deport (Please Flush the Johns......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Tall_Texan
Does AOL have the right to break into your car and search the glove compartment in order to prove whether you have brought an illegal substance onto their property?

No, but they do have the right to require you to submit to a search if you park on their property.

This is probably a situation where somebody "finked" on a fellow employee and started all this. AOL was probably more than happy to follow up on it.

But you really don't appreciate your rights as a property owner. You can require them to do anything you want as a condition of their existence on your property. The idea that you have to wait until they are loitering until a trespass law is violated is silly.

72 posted on 07/23/2004 7:51:01 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
What gives you the idea that you can do as you damn well please on somebody elses property or set the rules as the employee is beyond my capacity to understand.

My point was to see where the property rights of the person who happens to be an employee ends (or starts) and the corporations starts (ends). If you assert that AOL controls anything on their property just because it's on their property that absurd.

This is dim. You have no "right" to drive you, your car or your gun onto my property. Just like you and your clothes have no right to walk in my house. But if you did, I would not be so kind as AOL was.

Tell ya what, the next time someone uses your driveway to turn around in please run out and douse the car with gasoline and set it aflame. To really test your "property rights" I suggest doing this with a police car. But call me first, I want to watch.

73 posted on 07/23/2004 7:52:49 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Strategery - "W" plays poker with one hand and chess with the other.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Torie

Sadly, in my neck of the woods, literally, you'd have to knock off three of those zeros. But I'm a happy guy nonetheless.


74 posted on 07/23/2004 7:54:00 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Nathaniel Fischer
Ahh, don't you love it when the government decides to pass laws restricting people's ability to control what happens on their own property?

When the gov't protects and reinforces the Right of individuals to defend themselves, and their Right to not have their cars searched, absolutely, YES.

The primary purpose of gov't is to protect our individual Rights.

I don't give a rat's behind about corporations (they weren't even around at the time of our founding).

75 posted on 07/23/2004 7:54:46 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: TYVets

How about the New Hampshire resident that had a concealed carry permit, but worked in Massachusetts, he and 5 other people were killed in the work place?

Many employers can not protect employees on the job let alone to and from work !

I am sure A O L will protect their employees to and from work. (sarcasm)

=======

You are evidently one of the only posters here with a brain. I just love the RINOS who defer to the lawyers and say their decision "protecting" Time-Warner and stripping the employee's right to defend themselves to and from work is the "right" decision. I thought this was a conservative website?


76 posted on 07/23/2004 7:55:30 PM PDT by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: isthisnickcool

Come over any time. When somebody drives on my property uninvited and parks themselves on my posted raod they get a visit from me and ole betsy. No repeat customers so far.


77 posted on 07/23/2004 7:55:52 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Indie

It surely should be forbidden at postal offices...


78 posted on 07/23/2004 7:56:51 PM PDT by traumer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
You can require them to do anything you want as a condition of their existence on your property.

Oh really? So I can put a sign in my yard saying that all women that came on my property had to buy me dinner, and then I can call the cops when they refuse?

No, but they do have the right to require you to submit to a search if you park on their property.

BS. Corporations don't have "rights". Only individuals do.

79 posted on 07/23/2004 7:56:59 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: SouthernFreebird

THIS AIN'T ABOUT HUNTING!!!!!!! And yes, I was shouting!!!!! It's about my personal right to self defense to and from work or any other place I may be!


80 posted on 07/23/2004 7:57:30 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama (Can The Ban - let the AWB sunset • www.2asisters.org • www.cantheban.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Nathaniel Fischer
Ahh, don't you love it when the government decides to pass laws restricting people's ability to control what happens on their own property?

Amazing, eh?

81 posted on 07/23/2004 7:57:57 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Mulder
I don't give a rat's behind about corporations (they weren't even around at the time of our founding).

Look up the history of the East India Company sometime.

82 posted on 07/23/2004 7:58:19 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Mulder
I can place conditions on your entry to my property. If you don't agree to them, then you are there without my permission. And yes, I can call the cops in that situation.

And you're just ignorant about the law. Corporations have rights. The only BS is what you've posted on this thread.

83 posted on 07/23/2004 8:01:45 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: tex9mm
What would be the situation if AOL had a policy of "no newspapers on the premises" and a few employees were caught with copies of the New York Times? Any difference you think?

Probably but the real question is should there be? Who controls your property? Me, the state or you?

84 posted on 07/23/2004 8:02:16 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: NCLaw441
We may disagree with private policies that restrict, say, gun ownership by hiring policies or free speech by editorial positions, but these don't rise to the level of constitutional violations since no government action is taken.

What about in a situation where the gov't gives preferential treatment to one company, and detrimental treatment to others? And this is the case for ALL large industries, to some degree or another.

Isn't this essentially the same thing as the gov't taking action to deprive civil Rights, especially when the company that benefits is opposed to the Right of Free men?

Consider the airline industry, for instance. If United Airlines announced a policy that would allow all passengers with CCW "permits" to carry on board, do you really think the feds would allow that to happen? No. They would not let United fly. But some folks here are still under the illusion that our airlines are "privately owned".

85 posted on 07/23/2004 8:03:19 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
Come over any time. When somebody drives on my property uninvited and parks themselves on my posted raod they get a visit from me and ole betsy. No repeat customers so far.

I'll come over but only if I can bring my toys and point them the same direction you are pointing yours. We'll sit on the porch and make noise.

I sure hope that dang "assault ban" thing dies. I have a few things I'd like to take outside that have not been outside yet.

86 posted on 07/23/2004 8:04:21 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Strategery - "W" plays poker with one hand and chess with the other.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
I can place conditions on your entry to my property. If you don't agree to them, then you are there without my permission. And yes, I can call the cops in that situation.

This is quite limited, and for good reason. Most signs that you or I post on our private property have no legal standing. (Even "no gun" signs here in Florida have no legal standing).

The rare exception to this is the "no tresspass" sign. And even those have to be a certain font, color, and location in order to have legal standing.

As individual private property owners, we can still ask them to leave for any reason, and then the law will back us up, but not before.

Corporations have rights

Only individuals have Rights. A creation of a group of individuals (be it a government, or a corporation, or a robot) has no inherent Rights.

87 posted on 07/23/2004 8:09:05 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone

I would have to disagree. The Constitution and the bill of rights note the rights of all and generally tell us that our rights end where those of another person begin. If you carry a weapon for personal safety and the employer can't garauntee your safety from their parking lot to your home, that is the issue. Infringing your right to carry at this point becomes an infringement on your ability to protect yourself. And you never know when you might need to pull the trigger.

I worked for Kmart Corp as my first fulltime job. While I was working for them, my district manager took a trip up north from here and was murdered in a parking lot. You never know when it might come in handy to have something to protect yourself with. And Liberals are trying to take that ability away from us. And it goes without saying that if you take away a people's ability to defend themselves, you also remove their abiltiy to be a threat collectively should you choose to exploit and subjugate them. Liberals aren't put off by your ability to protect yourself - it's your ability to defend against their attempts to subjugate that they resent.


88 posted on 07/23/2004 8:09:10 PM PDT by Havoc (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Sloth

how about...no homosexuals on my property or no black people?
Are my property rights secure?


89 posted on 07/23/2004 8:11:58 PM PDT by ijcr (Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ability.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Havoc
Liberals aren't put off by your ability to protect yourself - it's your ability to defend against their attempts to subjugate that they resent.

Very well stated!

90 posted on 07/23/2004 8:12:43 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama (Can The Ban - let the AWB sunset • www.2asisters.org • www.cantheban.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: .38sw

Here's one that'll p**s you off.


91 posted on 07/23/2004 8:12:44 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left." (Eccl. 10:2))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Havoc
If the gov't ever wanted to ban guns, all they would have to do is pass more laws and edicts which result in WalMart owning everything, and then Wally World could simply ban guns by corporate edict.

And some folks would apparently be a-ok with that.

92 posted on 07/23/2004 8:14:58 PM PDT by Mulder (All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.-- Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: ijcr

Unless you offer your property up as a public accommodation, you are quite secure in whatever your prejudices. I don't like hawkers bothering me myself, whether it be for a product, religion, or political candidate. My policy is to not answer the door when the doorbell rings, unless I am expecting somebody. Call first, or I am not home.


93 posted on 07/23/2004 8:15:16 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: tex9mm
I can't recall when someone mowed down a Human Resources department with a copy of the New York Times.
94 posted on 07/23/2004 8:15:19 PM PDT by oyez (¡Qué viva la revolución de Reagan!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: basil; PistolPaknMama; dbwz

Check this out ladies!


95 posted on 07/23/2004 8:16:39 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama (Can The Ban - let the AWB sunset • www.2asisters.org • www.cantheban.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone

So, if I owned a company I could fire anyone who owned rap music? And I'd have the right to break into their car to see if they had any so long as they parked in a space on my property?

COOL! Think I'll start a business just to test this.

I'm also going to reserve the right to fire anyone wearing a tattoo. Makes no difference where or if it's covered up. I reserve the right to search you just because I don't like tattoos.

I think I'm going to like being a business.


96 posted on 07/23/2004 8:18:35 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (Ronald Reagan - Greatest President of the 20th Century.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
Not sure that applies--you are a private individual not a place of business. By nature a business will have greater amounts of public accessibility than a private residence (or driveway).

Am I correct from your posts that, for you, the right of privacy trumps all other rights contained in the Bill of Rights?

97 posted on 07/23/2004 8:19:19 PM PDT by twntaipan (demonRATs ARE the friends of our enemies, which makes demoRATs our... (finish the sentence).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: 2nd amendment mama

Is this a tough sisters alert or something?


98 posted on 07/23/2004 8:19:40 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: SouthernFreebird

And keep your SUV, cell phone, fast food off my parking lot.
Don't you see a connection with your freedom to defend yourself and the erosion of your abilty to choose what you can own?


99 posted on 07/23/2004 8:20:01 PM PDT by earplug (In god you trust. I like my silver and gold.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Nathaniel Fischer
AOL shouldn't be prevented from banning guns on its property,

I'm sorry, but I do not understand how the sensibilities of a company has trump card priviledges over matters specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

100 posted on 07/23/2004 8:21:32 PM PDT by twntaipan (demonRATs ARE the friends of our enemies, which makes demoRATs our... (finish the sentence).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-268 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson