Posted on 07/26/2004 1:52:58 PM PDT by BushisTheMan
Soldier Says "Young and Impressionable" Soldiers Just Returned from Iraq Deployments Are "Being Made to Feel Ashamed" of Their Service
The National Center for Public Policy Research has posted online an e-mail received from a soldier, Spc. Joe Roche of the 1st Armored Division, who says Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11 is "making the rounds" among soldiers at U.S. military bases overseas and is "shocking and crushing soldiers, making them feel ashamed" of their service in Iraq. The letter has been published online by The National Center without abridgment. The full text can be found here. Some excerpts:
"Michael Moore's film, Fahrenheit 9/11, is making the rounds here at U.S. bases in Kuwait. Some soldiers have received it already and are passing is around. The impact is devastating. Here we are, soldiers of the 1st Armored Division, just days from finally returning home after over a year serving in Iraq, and Moore's film is shocking and crushing soldiers, making them feel ashamed. Moore has abused the First Amendment and is hurting us worse than the enemy has. There are the young and impressionable soldiers, like those who joined the Army right out of high school. They aren't familiar w/ the college-type political debate environment, and they haven't been schooled in the full range of issues involved. They are vulnerable to being hurt by a vicious film like Moore's."
"Specialist Janecek, who is feeling depressed because a close family member is nearing the end of her life, just saw the film today. I saw him in the DFAC. He is devastated. 'I feel shitty, ashamed, like this was all a lie.' Not only is he looking at going straight to a funeral when he returns home, but now whatever pride he felt for serving here has been crushed by Moore's film. Specialist Everett earlier after seeing the film: 'You'll be mad at shit for ever having come here.' And there are others. Mostly the comments are absolute shock at the close connections Moore makes between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia. 'Bush looks really really REALLY corrupt in this film. I just don't know what to think anymore,' is a common comment to hear. Some of these soldiers are darn right ashamed tonight to be American soldiers, to have been apart of this whole mission in Iraq, and are angry over all that Moore has presented in his film."
"Right now, just days away from what should be a proud and happy return from 15 months of duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom, your U.S. soldiers are coming back ashamed and hurt because of Moore's work."
"I sometimes want to be mad at my fellow soldiers for being susceptible to Moore's distortions, but I can't really blame them. These are good Americans, who have volunteered to serve our country. Nothing says they all have to be experts in Middle Eastern issues and history and politics to serve. That would be silly. ...But this is, of course, the vulnerability that Moore has exploited."
"I wonder how damaging and shocking a Moore project would have been in the 1940s making such a video of Franklin Roosevelt."
Spc. Joe Roche serves with the 16th Engineering Battalion of the 1st Armored Division. He and his unit were deployed in Iraq for 15 months. An archive of his e-mails can be accessed at www.nationalcenter.org/RochePage.html online.
The National Center for Public Policy Research is a non-partisan, conservative/free-market think-tank established in 1982 and located on Capitol Hill. It can be visited at http://www.nationalcenter.org online.
Is Michael/Commie/Moore going to burn in hell? I think so.
Michael Moore is a fat, lying piece of garbage.
Gee, what a shock. There was a time when hollywood didn't try and destory the nation from within during wartime and I can't say I didn't see this coming.
I hope that fat fu@# is proud of himself!
I don't understand why those people who have seen Iraq with their own eyes can't see Moore's propoganda for the bs that it is.
I don't believe this is how most of our troops view Moore's film.
Civil wars have been fought for less. Is that what Moore is angling for?
And the Democrats are embracing this guy? What gives?
When is somebody going to do a real documentary on this documentary and take item for item down. Making Bush look really, really, REALLY corrupt..... next to Reagan he's the most honorable man we've had in the Whitehouse in the past 70 years and all they can do is lie about him, because the truth is too difficult for the hate mongers to fight.
Isn't that what Moore intended?
Frankly, if I were Moore, I would not be sleeping too soundly at night. Not a good idea to make 120,000 guys who carry machine guns mad at you. With that many of them, one of them is bound to be unbalanced.
Exactly. It doesn't wash. They know some of it isn't true, so wouldn't they find it easier to believe the rest of it isn't?
I suspect he would've been jailed.
My son is heading for the Air Force boot camp one week from today. And he is heading off with the knowledge that the vast majority of people in this country, the ones that matter, have a true appreciation for the sacrifice of our Armed Forces. He refuses to listen to the national media except for a laugh. He gets his news from his own sources, primary on the list is FreeRepublic!
There is something brewing out there that will rupture this Bush-hating movement. And I think it will be the prevalence of stories that will come home with our soldiers as we begin to rotate out our forces and reduce the troops in Iraq. The truth is already out there in the WMD assessment from the 9/11 commission, the Sandy Burglar memo cover up and the lack of a platform for the Dems, which will be painfully evident this week if they don't do their usual bash fest. What else do they have?
Any time you see a soldier, just say thanks! You'll love the feeling! Moore be damned!!
Such is Moore's goal.
The Left is really the terrorist's 5th column in America. Why do we tolerate them? Why do we let the ACLU (and Supereme Court) rot out our culture? Why is John Kerry allowed to walk down the street without being spit on? Why is the media allowed to degrade the USA every chance it gets? Why are Democrats allowed to commit massive voter fraud?
Why? Becasue we, the people, don't have the guts and sense to stop them.
I know quite a few soldiers and Marines deployed or returned from the middle east (combat and non-combat). The consensus I'm getting is that most could care less of what Moore or any anti-war nut has to say. They feel that what they are doing is justified and good.
The few who felt ashamed are the ones who were always ashamed, but needed a reason to complain about it.
My own cousin in the Marines tells me that the majority of non-combat military (cooks, mechanics, medics) are the ones whining the most.
I also know Marines who do not feel the war is justified, BUT they signed up knowing full well going to war was part of the job.
For the record: I'm did not like "F 9/11"... It was pure anti-war, liberal propoganda.
Already done. See David Kopel for the Independence Institute "Fifty-Nine Deceits in Farenheit 911." http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Seems to me he's crossed the line into sedition.
Give your son a big hug for me and tell him he and all of our military are appreciated and in our prayers. My husband spent 30 years in the AF and if he wasn't 67 years old he would still be there. And I would be right with him. May God bless your son and keep him safe.
isn't the public policy institute a left wing group.
I do believe soldiers are pissed at the movie.
I do not believe it is so devastating to moral HOWEVER if it is lowering moral it is getting people killed. (more dead soldiers, a stated Moore goal)
Perhaps we can finally make Rush for the FULL THREE hours in order to improve moral for the troops.
Another thing to improve solder moral, vote for Bush.
We chatted for a few minutes, I made it a point to thank him for his service and asked him a few questions, like did he really see those giant spiders, etc. I also asked if he came into contact with Iraqis enough to gauge whether or not things were turning around over there, blah blah...
Suddenly he said as politely as could be...Ma'am you really need to go see Farenheit 911...he was adamant and said that was reality. I was shocked to hear that and said to him don't you know that is anti war rhetoric similar to what Jane Fonda was doing during the Vietnam war to break his and others spirits etc...and he was adamant about they were "lied" to and that GW was only doing this to make money etc.
I was really let down that the fat piece of shit Moore really was being successful by undermining the military.
My friend who was there...suggested well it is a black kid...and all blacks hate republicans and maybe so...but it was still rather disturbing that this active duty sailor HATES his president and the "work" he is being "made to do".
We need to get work to the young people to come here instead of going to see that piece of poop. If they were coming here they would know the truth about how the American people feel about the troops.
I think it's a "how they got there" sort of thing. They'd just as soon not be in Iraq at all, and Moore has given them grounds for being pissed.
What's really horrible about this is that Michael Moore is being lionized as a fellow who's "asking important questions," as opposed to somebody who has produced a propaganda piece for his own particular conspiracy theory. The media's hate for Bush has blinded them to this minor issue....
I just got back from Kuwait a few months ago. They sell American flicks on DVD's there (they are recorded in American theatres with a recorder and then transmitted to DVD.) So you can get a DVD copy of a movie within days of it being released in American theatres. A lot of Marines and soldiers have the mini dvd players. I am sure this movie has gotten around quickly.
You can say all the things you want, but shockingly this is what Jane Fonda and the John Kerry's did to us in Vietnam. Most of us came back and finally let the wounds scar over, but never really to heal. The American people are doing it again! The most important thing we can do is tell the returning service folks that their service is appreciated and vote down the Democrats who are more concerned that they win than that America wins!
I don't really think that the morale of our fine troops will be affected by this lying fat pig's movie. They know better, and the American public knows better. All we can do is continue to support the troops and remind them that Michael Moore is a liar, and most citizens disagree with him. Moore really needs to be careful when crossing streets...
what do you mean "what else do they have"? they have anything they want. what would limit what they present?
Yours was a depressing experience and a depressing read for me. Unfortunately, there is a percentage in the military who don't understand the value of what they are doing. I live near a Bush hating national guardsmen, I was tempted to ask him if he knew that national guardsmen who was arrested trying to sell his services to jihadists. I also work with a former marine who is a socialist. go figure.
I have a feeling this was Moore's main purpose, other than making money.
He probably is. He loves making money off of America, but hates the country. He probably hates himself. I can see why he would.
Some gave all... they are the true heros. Some wimped out... they are to be despised. The rest did their duty; they are our brothers and sisters. And we can all tell this left-wing garbage they enjoy their freedom at our expense.
Dear C: That's my take on it as well. My son just got back from Fallujah. He's a grunt with 1st Bn., 5th Marines. This battalion mixed it up thoroughly with the terrorists there. They killed hajis in droves. At a squad party after they were given liberty, I visited briefly with these guys as well as my son. They were all for Bush. Michael Moore's movie meant nothing to them. Nor were these guys doed- eyed idealists about why we went to Iraq. Frankly, they did not care. They just wanted to go "get some" and for that they were, well...happy. They expect politicians to lie to them. They didn't give a rat's patootie. They see themselves as warriors. Warriors fight wars. Bush gave 'em a war, so he's alright with them. They all had friends who were KIAs and WIAs. Frankly, these men ( average age about 19- 22) were amazing. They were bright and articulate. Most with some college. None were the downtrodden, blighted minorities forced into the Marines by the whip of economic necessity. The more time I spent with them, the more I liked them. They were high spirited, courageous, full of testosterone, fiercely loyal to each other, although they ragged each other mercilessly and loved to pull practical jokes, even during the fighting. They are the best and brightest we have. To them , Moore is just another fat, nasty civilian huckster like the guys who run the porn shops in Oceanside.
Moore and the rest of the RAT company will burn in hell together for all eternity.
Yes, They are young and "Hip". It's sad that they won't understand what it's all about for a few years. It's hard to keep your mind on the end result with little or no support (alone at 3:00 in the morning watching crap, the mind wanders).
If a movie as lame as Farenheit 9/11 can have a 'devastating impact' on morale then I have to wonder how high morale was to begin with.
This is oustanding page to counter the hatriot Moore. It is the perfect PDF flyer to use. We ALL can use the same one. DONT LET THIS BLOATED LEFT WING PROPAGANDIST GET AWAY WITH IT! Dont let him corrupt young peoples minds un-opposed. DO NOT underestimate the power of film as a propaganda tool. Get the Fifty Six Deceits info out there wherever and however you can. Print it up. Leave it laying around, hand it out. Post it wherever you can. Get it ALL OVER the internet, Usenet, IRC, Chat, Takes minutes a day. E-mail everyone you know who will listen. How do you defeat a leftist propagandist? GET RIGHT BACK IN THEIR FACES! Just as loud as they are. And while were at it, expose Kerry for all that is factually and verifiably true. We dont have to make propaganda up on Kerry. He has done all the work for us. Three months left. Make every day count!
My point is they have no platform to present. If you strip away the Bush bashing, what's left? Socialized medicine? Support the U.N.? Pull out of Iraq? Go back to a full welfare state? They have nothing to vote for, only a platform of what to vote against.
Is there a way that we can contact soldiers in Iraq to write as penpals? We need to write to these people and show them that we support them and counter Jabba's (a.k.a. Michael Moore) lies if necessary. If this was WWII Jabba would be breaking rocks by now - and he could certainly use the exercise.
The only reason Hanoi John Kerry is a candidate for president today is because the lies he repeated about us helped inspire our Communist enemy to hold out until he and his gang of Marxist punks could cause the U.S. to lose the war on the homefront.
Moore is a traitor and should be summarily executed.
"I don't believe this is how most of our troops view Moore's film."
I agree. Former US Marine here - I know how PCBS like Moore's is treated by the 1STSGT in Company formations every morning. Our troops are not as easily influenced by this kind of crap as the article implies - they've seen the successes of Iraq first-hand. Smells like propaganda to me.
they are not limited to the areas you see as difficult.
Why would any of the troops want to watch Moore's film in the first place?
Nuff said. (Stay safe & he knows so many of us are in his camp)
you know? god bless you. believe all you want. but believing matters even less than facts. its all over, sports fans.
the military shouldn't be so gulible. The More film is all crap.
BS. If they are ashamed of their role in Iraq then they have no sense of pride. Either in themselves or in what they've accomplished thusfar in that country.
That being said...G-d damn Michael Moore to eternal hellfire and torment for what he has done.
I can only speak for myself here, but this is what makes me a Bushbot. Besides his integrity, it's a strong desire to stand up for someone who has been mercilessly smeared, and add to that the fact that what he's trying to accomplish is the defense of our nation.
It makes it very difficult to criticize him. I do have my disagreements with him, but I'm very careful to temper any public comments about them. If something bothers me, I will write a respectful message to the White House, but I will not pile on.
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