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FReeper Canteen ~ Part III: War in Ancient India ~ July 27, 2004
A Tribute to Hinduism ^ | July 27, 2004 | LaDivaLoca

Posted on 07/26/2004 7:59:00 PM PDT by LaDivaLoca

 
 

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Part III: War in Ancient India

 
Weapons of War as Gathered from Literature

Dhanur Veda classifies the weapons of offence and defense into four - the mukta, the amukta, the mukta-mukta and the yantramukta. The Nitiprakasika, on the other hand, divides them into three broad classes, the mukta (thrown), the amukta (not thrown), and the mantramukta (discharged by mantras). The bows and arrows are the chief weapons of the mukta group. The very fact that our military science named Dhanur Veda provides sufficiently clearly that the bow and arrow were the principle weapons of war in those times. It was known by different terms as sarnga, kodanda, and karmuka. Whether these are synonyms of the same thing or were different is difficult to say. The Rg vedaic smith was not only a steel worker but also an arrow maker. 

 
Fire-Arms:

It would be interesting to examine the true nature of the agneya-astras. Kautalya describes agni-bana, and mentions three recipes - agni-dharana, ksepyo-agni-yoga, and visvasaghati. Visvasaghati was composed of 'the powder of all the metals as red as fire or the mixture of the powder of kumbhi, lead, zinc, mixed with the charcoal and with oil wax and turpentine.' From the nature of the ingredients of the different compositions it would appear that they were highly inflammable and could not be easily extinguished. 

A recent writer remarks:
'The Visvasaghati-agni-yoga was virtually a bomb which burst and the fragments of metals were scattered in all directions. The agni-bana was the fore-runner of a gun-shot.....

Sir A. M. Eliot tells us that the Arabs learnt the manufacture of gunpowder from India, and that before their Indian connection they had used arrows of naptha. It is also argued that though Persia possessed saltpetre in abundance, the original home of gunpowder was India. It is said that the Turkish word top and the Persian tupang or tufang are derived from the Sanskrit word dhupa. The dhupa of the Agni Purana means a rocket, perhaps a corruption of the Kautaliyan term natadipika. 

(source:
Fire-Arms in Ancient India -  By Jogesh Chandra Ray I.H.Q. viii. p. 586-88).

Heinrich Brunnhofer (1841-1917), German Indologist, also believed that the ancient Aryans of India knew about gunpowder. 

(source:
German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies writing in German - By Valentine Stache-Rosen. p.92).

Gustav Oppert (1836-1908) born in Hamburg, Germany, he taught Sanskrit and comparative linguistics at the Presidency College, Madras for 21 years. He was the Telugu translator to the Government and Curator, Government Oriental Manuscript Library. Translated Sukraniti, statecraft by an unknown author.

He attempted to prove that ancient Indians knew firearms. 

(source:
German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies writing in German - By Valentine Stache-Rosen. p.81).

(For more refer to article by G R Josyer - India: The Home of Gunpowder and Firearms).

In his work, Political Maxims of the Ancient Hindus, he says, that ancient India was the original home of gunpowder and fire-arms. It is probable that the word Sataghni referred to in the Sundara Kanda of the Ramayana refers to cannon. 

(source: Hindu Culture and The Modern Age - By Dewan Bahadur K.S. Ramaswami Shastri - Annamalai University 1956 p. 127).

The word astra in the Sukraniti is interpreted by Dr. Gustav Oppert as a bow. The term astra means a missile, anything which is discharged. Agneya astra means a fiery arm as distinguished from a firearm.  

Dr. Oppert refers to half a dozen temples in South India to prove the use of fire-arms in ancient India. The Palni temple in the Madura District contains on the outer portion in an ancient stone mantapa scenes of carved figures of soldiers carrying in their hands small fire-arms, apparently the small-sized guns mentioned in the Sukranitisara. Again in the Sarnagapani temple at Kumbakonam in the front gate of the fifth story from the top is the figure of a king sitting in a chariot drawn by horses and surrounded by a number of soldiers. Before this chariot march two sepoys with pistols in their hands. In the Nurrukkal mantapam of the Conjeevaram temple is a pillar on the north side of the mandapa. Here is a relief vividly representing a flight between two bodies of soldiers. Mounted horsemen are also seen. The foot-soldier is shown aiming his fire-arm against the enemy. Such things are also noted in the Tanjore temple and the temple at Perur, in the Coimbatore District. In the latter there is an actual representation of a soldier loading a musket. 

The Borobudar in Java where Indian tradition is copied wholesale. They are ascribed roughly to the period 750-850 A.D. There is a striking relief series PL. I, fig. 5, (1605) representing a battle in which two others are seen on each side, one wearing a curved sword in the right hand and a long shield, and the other a mace and a round shield resembling a wheel, all apparently made of iron. The story of the Ramayana is also given as in the Tadpatri temple from Rama's going to the forest down to the killing of Ravana. There is also a wonderful sculpture of an ancient Hindu ship. 

(source: Suvarnadvipa - By R.C. Majumdar. pp 194-5).

Medhatithi remarks thus "while fighting his enemies in battle, he shall not strike with concealed weapons nor with arrows that are poisoned or barbed on with flaming shafts."

Sukraniti while referring to fire-arms, (agneyastras) says that before any war, the duty of the minister of war is to check up the total stock of gunpowder in the arsenal. Small guns is referred as tupak by Canda Baradayi. The installation of yantras (engines of war) inside the walls of the forts referred to by Manasollasa and the reference of Sataghni (killer of hundreds of men) pressed into service for the protection of the forts by Samaranganasutradhara clearly reveals the frequent use of fire arms in the battle-field.

(source: India Through The Ages: History, Art Culture and Religion - By G. Kuppuram p. 512-513).


Lord Rama with his bow defeats Ravana in the gold city of Lanka

In the light of the above remarks we can trace the evolution of fire-arms in the ancient India. There is evidence to show that agni (fire) was praised for vanquishing an enemy. The Arthava Veda shows the employment of fire-arms with lead shots. The Aitareya Brahmana describes an arrow with fire at its tip. In the Mahabharata and Ramayana, the employment of agnyastras is frequently mentioned, and this deserves careful examination in the light of other important terms like ayah, kanapa and tula-guda. 

The agnicurna or gunpowder was composed of 4 to 6 parts of saltpetre, one part of sulphur, and one part of charcoal of arka, sruhi and other trees burnt in a pit and reduced to powder. Here is certain evidence of the ancient rockets giving place to actual guns in warfare. From the description of the composition of gunpowder, the composition of the Sukraniti can be dated at the pre-Gupta age. 

(source: War in Ancient India - By V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar 1944. p. 103 -105).

 

Next Tuesday, Part IV of War in Ancient India






TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: ancientindia; ancientwar; canteen; freepercanteen; india; weaponsofwar
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  ~ MILITARY REQUESTS ~

Helping our military!!

If you are interested in helping our military, please FReepmail MoJo2001, Brad's Gramma, or Kathy In Alaska for more information. Below is a brief overview of the help that is needed. Thank you!

Operation Semper Fi - Field Hospital in Iraq needs basic necessities and anything else you can think of.

Operation Iraqi Children - An Active Duty FReeper, smaagee, has requested help for children ages 3-11 in Mosul. If you are interested in helping, please contact us. Make sure to put "Operation Iraqi Children" in the subject line.

Operation Military Families - Many military family members have been affected by the deployments. As with many places in the United States, it has taken quite a toll on the population in general. In Indiana, "close" to 100,000 Active Duty and Reservists have left the State. Many of those family members left behind are having a hard time, if you are interested in helping then contact us.

Donations For Our Troops - If you'd like to help send care packages without having to shop, we've found a reliable FRiend to help you. Please contact patriciaruth in FReepmail. She has been doing this for a long time and would be happy to have the help.

Operation Convoys - Our military folks that are members of those Transportation companies need help with the basic necessities and items to hold them over until they return back to base. We've all heard about roadside bombings. Please help make their life a little easier.

Operation Emails, FReepmail, and SNAIL MAIL - So? You don't have the time or money to send anything, how about an email or snail mail? You can even send a FReepmail. We would be happy to send it forward.

WALTER REED & BETHESDA HOSPITALS - FReeper TruthNtegrity visits our Troops in the hospital as often as possible. She needs some help getting them pre-paid phone cards and something to pass the time by. (Such as games, magazines, etc..). If you are interested in helping, please FReepmail her. Thank you!

Operation Care Packages - If you'd like to bring a smile to any of our brave heroes, send them a little something from home. It will go a long way to lifting their morale. It's a long road to killing all the terrorists. Don't let our brave heroes forget that we care about them. FReepmail us if you'd like to help.
 

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Thank you!
 


1 posted on 07/26/2004 7:59:01 PM PDT by LaDivaLoca
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; tomkow6; Bethbg79; bentfeather; Radix; ...






Have a wonderful day!



Good evening, Goodnight, Good morning, Good afternoon, everyone!


2 posted on 07/26/2004 7:59:49 PM PDT by LaDivaLoca (There can be no triumph w/o loss, no victory w/o suffering, no freedom w/o sacrifice. THANK U TROOPS)
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To: LaDivaLoca; All


3 posted on 07/26/2004 8:02:03 PM PDT by Soaring Feather
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To: LaDivaLoca; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; Fawnn; Bethbg79; bentfeather; Ragtime Cowgirl; ...
Click on the pic and I'll guide you
to the start of today's thread




FR CANTEEN MISSION STATEMENT
Showing support and boosting the morale of
our military and our allies military
and the family members of the above.
Honoring those who have served before.
CLICK HERE TO FIND LATEST THREAD.





4 posted on 07/26/2004 8:02:15 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Support Free Republic!)
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To: LaDivaLoca

Hello Diva!!

How are you?? Thank You Diva for posting the Tuesday thread each week.

Take care hon.


5 posted on 07/26/2004 8:03:46 PM PDT by Soaring Feather
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To: LaDivaLoca

Thank You for today's thread!


6 posted on 07/26/2004 8:03:52 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (LaDivaLoca Rocks)
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To: The Sailor; kjfine; Old Sarge; USAF_TSgt; darkwing104; txradioguy; Long Cut; Jet Jaguar; armyboy; ..


FYI : Look in upper right corner of "My Comments" page.
Set it for "Brief" instead of Full.
You only will get title of thread and who pinged you.
No graphics will load.

7 posted on 07/26/2004 8:08:15 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; bentfeather; All
BIG *HUGS* to all! Sorry for posting and running off again. We've been busy preparing for my nephew's wedding this Saturday. We have been hanging out with family and friends from out of town. Work still keeping me busy and my b-i-l has been borrowing my computer since they did not bring their laptop so I need to disappear once again.

Please know I keep you all including our Troops, in my thoughts and prayers.

Miss you!

8 posted on 07/26/2004 8:09:32 PM PDT by LaDivaLoca (There can be no triumph w/o loss, no victory w/o suffering, no freedom w/o sacrifice. THANK U TROOPS)
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To: Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; LaDivaLoca; bentfeather; beachn4fun; Fawnn; Ragtime Cowgirl; ...
From the men in the Military and the Canteen


9 posted on 07/26/2004 8:10:15 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: LaDivaLoca

We luv you!

Have fun at the wedding!


10 posted on 07/26/2004 8:12:21 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: LaDivaLoca
Another winner, LaDiva. Have fun at the wedding tomorrow...dance, laugh, and enjoy!!!

Sukraniti while referring to fire-arms, (agneyastras) says that before any war, the duty of the minister of war is to check up the total stock of gunpowder in the arsenal. Small guns is referred as tupak by Canda Baradayi. The installation of yantras (engines of war) inside the walls of the forts referred to by Manasollasa and the reference of Sataghni (killer of hundreds of men) pressed into service for the protection of the forts by Samaranganasutradhara clearly reveals the frequent use of fire arms in the battle-field.

Hmmmm...who would have thought the 2nd Amendment has roots this far back in history....


11 posted on 07/26/2004 8:12:25 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: Bob J; All
National Website
Sept 11th
The National March Against Terror!


FR SPONSORED!
FR Thread

12 posted on 07/26/2004 8:14:14 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Never Forget)
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To: Interesting Times; All
KERRY LIED . . . while good men died
A gathering of Vietnam veterans from across America

Where: The West Front of the U.S. Capitol Building
Washington, DC

When: Sunday, Sept 12, 2004 2:00-4:00 PM (EDT)
Why: To tell the truth about Vietnam veterans.

To counter the lies told about Vietnam veterans by John Kerry
All Vietnam veterans and their families and supporters are asked to attend.
Other veterans are invited as honored guests.


Printable flyer Click Here
(pdf file)

13 posted on 07/26/2004 8:16:02 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Hanoi Kerry is a traitor!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; All

OMG I couldn't stand looking at both Hillary or Bill so I got online didn't watch rest of convention

Remember that story I broke from Drudge site wellll it old interview with Terezzzzzza Heinz Kerry where she run smack chat in 1980s on UNCLE TED Kennedy and Demo politcal party

Reason is she going be interview by ABC News Charles Gibson on GMA report is that he confort her about this interview if you want hear about interview check out Boston Globe Tuesday run when you get a chance

IT IS CLASSIC


14 posted on 07/26/2004 8:16:35 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("Not everybody , in it, for truth, justice, and the American way,"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: HiJinx

Evening Bro!


15 posted on 07/26/2004 8:18:52 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: SevenofNine

I tuned in and tuned out when Carter was on.

What I saw was just plain boring.

The crowd looked bored also.


16 posted on 07/26/2004 8:20:56 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Hey Bro- thanks and God Bless!!


17 posted on 07/26/2004 8:23:07 PM PDT by herewego
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To: herewego

Hope all is well in GA!


18 posted on 07/26/2004 8:23:53 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: LaDivaLoca; radu; All
Good morning Troops, Veterans and Canteeners . . . seems like we're missing some of our previous good and loyal posters.

Thank you President Bush for loving this great country of ours.


19 posted on 07/26/2004 8:24:07 PM PDT by HopeandGlory (Hey, Liberals . . . PC died on 9/11 . . . GET USED TO IT!!!)
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Kathy in Alaska; tomkow6
Mornin', everybody ! Happy Tuesday !


Click for Dallas, Texas Forecast


Have a cup while you Freep !




For those who prefer hot chocolate.....


20 posted on 07/26/2004 8:28:15 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Hey, Tonk. It's looking like a good time to spend some family time...see everyone tomorrow!

Thanks for all you do for our rowdy crew.


21 posted on 07/26/2004 8:56:58 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks Tonk!
Just got the big Bronco going again so I am hoping to see some kerry signs, but unlikely in my part.
See ya bud!


22 posted on 07/26/2004 8:57:22 PM PDT by herewego
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To: LaDivaLoca

If gunpowder was so widely used by the Hindi at such an early age, why didn't they use it against Temujin? There seems to be little evidence that Temujin used it in his conquests. Certainly he never used it in his confrontations with the Russ and the Poles. And I have never heard of him using it against the Arabs or the Mamelukes.


23 posted on 07/26/2004 9:31:41 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: All; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; alaska-sgt; armyboy; Arrowhead1952; beachn4fun; bentfeather; ...

Good news!! Found out today that the temp job that I thought would only be 1 month is actually going to be 3 months worth of work!

wOOhOO!! Three more months of job search available without compromising the ability to pay the bills!!


24 posted on 07/26/2004 10:07:20 PM PDT by trussell (K'nigget. Lady Espiona, Official Sneaky Beeyotch and Vengeful Popper of Lies and Exploder of Retread)
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To: trussell

Congratulations!!!!


25 posted on 07/26/2004 10:10:22 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks Tonkin! I'm going to be back in my bookstore!! I can't wait. This is the job I have wanted all summer!

The only think that would be better, would be to have a FT Permanent with benefits!


26 posted on 07/26/2004 10:13:04 PM PDT by trussell (K'nigget. Lady Espiona, Official Sneaky Beeyotch and Vengeful Popper of Lies and Exploder of Retread)
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To: MoJo2001

HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


27 posted on 07/26/2004 10:16:14 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Sure glad I was old enough to vote for President Reagan!!!)
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To: trussell

I'll say a prayer for that.


28 posted on 07/26/2004 10:36:17 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops Past, Present and Future)
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To: trussell; All

OHHH I not sure about this check out O'Reilly Factor tommorow Freepers on another thread claim Michael Moore going be on that show at 8pm est tommorow

Guys dont quote me check it out if you do want Barf

Well World Tribune reporting that Russia is thinking about send two miltary divsion to Iraq help US troops and another report off Kydto news wire is Mongolia is send troops to Aghaan Mountains look for Bin Laden according to sources

Mongolia is send troops with US Special forces

OH MAN wait till Mongols get their Geingus Khan paws on Binny


29 posted on 07/26/2004 10:41:06 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("Not everybody , in it, for truth, justice, and the American way,"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: All

Well report off Tass news wire is that Russia KGB busted plot in Moscow for Chechen terrorist do 9/11 attack on City of Moscow
Say bye bye to this dude he is gone


30 posted on 07/26/2004 10:53:12 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("Not everybody , in it, for truth, justice, and the American way,"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: LaDivaLoca

Diva!! ((HUGS)) Glad all is well with you. Thanks for popping in. Thanks for another great history lesson.


31 posted on 07/26/2004 11:43:12 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: armymarinemom; armymarinedad

Hi Stu!! Thank you for serving this great nation of ours.
Prayers for your safety and success in Afghanistan. Thanks to Brad and Graham too.


32 posted on 07/26/2004 11:43:44 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: trussell

Hurrah for you!!


33 posted on 07/26/2004 11:45:44 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: sns5151

Thank you, Robert, for your service to our country.


34 posted on 07/26/2004 11:46:29 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: Military family member

Thank you, Sgt, for your service to our country.


35 posted on 07/26/2004 11:47:32 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; MoJo2001; Bethbg79; LaDivaLoca; tomkow6; Fawnn; HiJinx; SouthernHawk; ...
Click for Kabul, Afghanistan Forecast
Click for Kabul, Afghanistan Forecast


Click for Kuwait, Kuwait Forecast
Click for Kuwait, Kuwait Forecast

36 posted on 07/26/2004 11:48:45 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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Duty ~ Honor ~ Country

Click above to visit "A Day in the Life of President Bush"

37 posted on 07/26/2004 11:49:21 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: HiJinx; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; tomkow6; MoJo2001; Bethbg79; LaDivaLoca; Ragtime Cowgirl; ...


A PRAYER OF PROTECTION

The light of God surround you
The love of God enfold you
The power of God protect you
The presence of God watch over you
Wherever you are,God is,
And all is well.
Amen.

Bless This House



Bless this house O Lord we pray;
Make it safe by night and day;
Bless these walls so firm and stout,
Keeping want and trouble out:
Bless the roof and chimneys tall,
Let thy peace lie over all;
Bless this door, that it may prove
ever open to joy and love.


Bless these windows shining bright,
Letting in God's heav'nly light;
Bless the hearth a'blazing there,
with smoke ascending like a prayer;
Bless the folk who dwell within,
keep them pure and free from sin;
Bless us all that we may be
Fit O Lord to dwell with thee;
Bless us all that one day we
May dwell O Lord with thee.



(Click on praying hands above, or on banner at the top to hear the music)


38 posted on 07/26/2004 11:53:30 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: Kathy in Alaska

Hi All

Bye All


39 posted on 07/26/2004 11:53:59 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Sure glad I was old enough to vote for President Reagan!!!)
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To: blackie; Old Sarge; USAF_TSgt; tomkow6; darkwing104; USVet6792Retired; Colonel_Flagg; E.G.C.; ...


40 posted on 07/26/2004 11:54:33 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: txradioguy; Old Sarge; kjfine; USAF_TSgt; armyboy; Jet Jaguar; mike1sg; darkwing104; fatima; ...

41 posted on 07/26/2004 11:55:29 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: All

Our National Anthem

42 posted on 07/26/2004 11:56:10 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: Allegra; All


Click!


43 posted on 07/26/2004 11:58:20 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: HiJinx; mylife; Old Sarge
Good morning fellow cubevillians!

And Sarge is in school.

44 posted on 07/26/2004 11:59:01 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: tomkow6; SouthernHawk; Old Sarge; Hondo1952; HiJinx; blackie; USAF_TSgt; E.G.C.; armyboy; ...
Good morning, Boys!!



45 posted on 07/26/2004 11:59:49 PM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: bentfeather; Bethbg79; StarCMC; MoJo2001; beachn4fun; LaDivaLoca; Fawnn; trussell; ...
Good morning, Girls!


46 posted on 07/27/2004 12:00:31 AM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: bentfeather
Thank you, ms feather, for the Canteen Blessing for the Troops.
47 posted on 07/27/2004 12:02:06 AM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: Brad's Gramma

Nite, nite, Gramma.


48 posted on 07/27/2004 12:02:45 AM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and Our Troops Who Protect Her)
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To: Kathy in Alaska
((HUGS))Good morning, Kathy. How's it going?

And a very pleasant good morning to everyone at the Freeper canteen and to all of ourr military at home and abroad. Thanks for your continued service to our country.

Oklahoma Freepers. Make sure to vote in today's election.

49 posted on 07/27/2004 3:06:17 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Kathy in Alaska

BTT!!!!!!!


50 posted on 07/27/2004 3:06:50 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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