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"No More Deaths" Volunteer Workshop Reveals Tactics to Assist Illegal Immigrants
Tombstone Tumbleweed ^ | 29 July 2004 | Ursulina Vargas and Chris Simcox

Posted on 07/30/2004 6:32:12 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder

No More Deaths, a volunteer coalition composed of advocacy groups whose work is to support illegal immigrants with water and medical aid, recently held a meeting in Bisbee to train volunteers in dealing with both law enforcement and illegal border crossers they refer to as "guests".

The primary speaker for the workshop was Margo Cowan, who has defended undocumented people for 35 years. Cowan was indicted in 1972 by the Nixon Administration on 52 counts of aiding and abetting illegal aliens; the charges were dropped by former President Jimmy Carter. Cowan currently serves as legal counsel to Rep. Raul Grijalva.

Lupe Castillo and Kat Rodriguez of Derechos Humanos were also in attendance to educate the 30 volunteers, many of whom traveled from out of state to attend the training meeting. Derechos Humanos openly states that their goal is to open the borders and abolish the Border Patrol.

The stated purpose of No More Deaths (No Mas Muertes) is to provide humanitarian aid for undocumented migrants; to prevent their deaths in the desert, and to do so in a non-violent way, while not cooperating with Border Patrol. As one participant said, "It's not my job to call Border Patrol-why should I interfere with their destiny?"

No More Deaths members, in cooperation with church groups, provide food and water for immigrants being detained by Border Patrol, and also in the "field" working out of mobile RV aid stations set up in Arivaca and Douglas, Arizona.

Cowan stated that for every immigrant death reported by authorities, there are 10 more that go unreported. There are no statistical facts from U.S. local, state or federal data or Mexican consulates to verify whether the statement is true. Cowan and others at the meeting routinely referred to illegal aliens as "our children." Cowan said it is important to set up aid stations in Cochise County because the Tucson Border Patrol sector is now focusing attention on the most active crossing points. Because Border Patrol estimates 5 (illegal aliens) come through for every one caught, Cowan is concerned for the safety of the 5 million "friends," as she refers to illegal immigrants, who have illegally entered the United States.

She said the rate of recidivism (those who've crossed, been caught, and re-crossed) is so low as to be described as "statistically insignificant" by the Border Patrol. And, although the Border Patrol claims that they have caught more felons, Cowan stated that is just a label that can be applied to undocumented aliens depending upon how many times they've been apprehended while crossing the border. Since October 1, 2003, the start of their fiscal year, Border Patrol reports that as of July 15, agents have apprehended 8,283 convicted felons attempting to cross back into the United States after being deported. If Border Patrol is catching only one in five, that means that up to 20,000 convicted criminals could have entered the country in that same period.

Cowan boasted that with 2 to 3 million "guests" coming through every year, the U.S. Attorney can't prosecute every one, so they decide to go after the coyotes. As a result of rapes, robberies and other abuses at the hands of smugglers, groups of undocumented migrants are less likely to rely on coyotes to guide them across the border. Often a group of "guests" will appoint a person (who has crossed and been caught) to be their leader, and each person will give him $50 or so for taking the responsibility as the guide if the group is caught.

Cowan told the group of new volunteers that they cannot aid or abet aliens in furtherance of their illegal status in the U.S. How they get away with bending but not breaking the law, is under much scrutiny by Border Patrol and other federal law enforcement agencies who are beginning to keep an eye on the groups who provide aid to illegal aliens. Cowan says ignorance is the key. "All you have to do, the most important thing is, to not ask if they are illegal or where they are from!" Cowan says if they are in the United States, then if volunteers don't ask, they can assume they are helping citizens. Many of their aid stations are only a few hundred feet from the border fence. The same is true of water stations set up on BLM land by the Tucson based Humane Borders group.

No More Deaths volunteers, can, and will transport possible illegal aliens to receive medical help. Cowan's strategy, "You can ask them questions to see how they are feeling, and observe their condition. There is a list of approved doctors and nurses that a volunteer can call to get an OK to take the migrant, for a medical evaluation." Cowan said as long as you have permission from one of the doctors or registered nurses in the "friends network" then you can legally transport them. The group claims to have a list of such doctors that volunteers can call to get permission to transport the "guests".

A volunteer suggested putting magnetized Samaritan signs with a red cross on the cars when approaching undocumented migrants or when transporting them, so that everyone will know their mission is a medically necessary or humanitarian effort. Another volunteer said that doctors he had worked with in the organization had said that if a person is crossing the desert in the summer, regardless of whether or not they look sick, they all need medical help. If anyone in the "friends network" were stopped by Border Patrol, while transporting aliens in their cars, volunteers were instructed to identify themselves as being with No More Deaths, since there is "an umbrella of political protection" associated with the group. And they should also say that they were taking the aliens for a medical evaluation in Tucson at St. Mary's Hospital or for respite at South Side Presbyterian Church (home of Humane Borders).

According to Cowan, "we are transparent," so there is no attempt to conceal undocumented migrants by making them lie down in the back seat or hide in the trunk. Someone asked, "Is it legal to take them home with you, like if you need to pick up the list of doctors and nurses you need to take them to?" Cowan said, "Yes, but you must take them there," (to medical help).

"If you meet a group and some are in distress, and others are not, you cannot transport those who are OK," Cowan answered. "We encourage people who want to (transport those who are OK) to do that, on their own, but we don't want to get in trouble, so we don't do that as a group, under the name No More Deaths," Cowan warned the volunteers.

Another question that arose was if a "friend" doctor recommended a 48-hour respite, could the volunteer take the aliens home, let them take a shower, and then let them use the phone at the end of that period of time? Cowan said that although a church designated as a respite center was preferable, it was all right to do this, but if the alien calls out on your home phone, you want to make sure your ID is blocked, as you do not want coyotes knowing your number.

Kat Rodriguez asked, "How do they get from your home to the bus, or other transportation (if you are not allowed to transport them)?" Others also wanted to know if it was legal to give them some money for their trip.

Cowan responded: "Almost everyone coming over has family here who will come and pick them up. Public transportation is just too dangerous." Other volunteers were still puzzled and asked further about how to aid aliens in resuming their journey after a medically recommended respite. Then Cowan added, "This is just what No More Deaths recommends legally; other friends do other pieces." No More Deaths official policy is "We can't do this piece-other people do this piece, just in case there are some government spies here. It's important for us to do everything to keep the criminal enterprise part away from our humanitarian efforts," Cowan explained. The volunteers smiled and laughed.

Later Cowan added that most volunteers in the group might know someone who would "do the other piece" but there is no organized group to perform transportation functions for the "guests". Cowan warned the volunteers that if they are detained for any reason by law enforcement while transporting an alien, the case must be turned over to the state's attorney, whose decision it will be either to dismiss it or to prosecute.

The group debated if it was legal to give "guests" a map, so that they knew where they were and how to get to where they were going.

Cowan said that it was a legal gray area; and "we are concerned that people may misinterpret them (the maps) and they won't be helpful."

Others in the group shared stories about Border Patrol agents who did not want them to give water or food to alien detainees in the field, and they were assured that it is perfectly legal to give them the "Know Your Rights" card, and to share food and water with them. Cowan said those agents who are resistant to No More Deaths volunteers' help are: "young agents, scared to death, based on lack of knowledge, substantively and culturally, of whom they are dealing with."

Kat Rodriguez said, "God forbid you feed a felon."

The group discussed the necessity of getting a written commitment from local law enforcement (cities, county sheriffs) to not enforce immigration law, since only the Department of Homeland Security has the authority to inquire into a person's legal status in this country.

As far as the Border Patrol is concerned, they have no authority over you while you are on private property, and that includes churches that may be used for respites.

One of the speakers claimed that there were no kitchens in the detention facilities, and sometimes people there said they had not been fed for 48 hours. She wanted to know if the group cared to organize an effort to bring a mobile kitchen to the incarceration facility to feed the "guests".

Toward the end of the meeting, Lupe Castillo, a volunteer coordinator added, "Let's not get so wrapped up in humanitarian aid that we forget our principle effort is in changing border and immigration policy."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; US: Arizona; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: activists; aidingterrorists; aliens; border; illegalaliens; illegalinvasion; illegals
I do hereby nominate Chris Simcox to be in charge of inserting spies into Al Qaeda...
1 posted on 07/30/2004 6:32:15 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder
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To: B4Ranch; madfly; FITZ; Reaganwuzthebest; hsmomx3; Joe Hadenuf; 4Freedom; Ajnin; Marine Inspector; ..

Ping!


2 posted on 07/30/2004 6:33:27 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; A CA Guy; Afronaut; ..
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

The primary speaker for the workshop was Margo Cowan, who has defended undocumented people for 35 years. Cowan was indicted in 1972 by the Nixon Administration on 52 counts of aiding and abetting illegal aliens; the charges were dropped by former President Jimmy Carter. Cowan currently serves as legal counsel to Rep. Raul Grijalva.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over??

3 posted on 07/30/2004 6:39:13 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: HiJinx
Cowan needs to be indited again.
4 posted on 07/30/2004 6:40:52 PM PDT by Viet-Boat-Rider (KERRY LIED)
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To: Viet-Boat-Rider
Cowan needs to be indicted again

And again and again and again and again....

5 posted on 07/30/2004 6:47:36 PM PDT by Regulator (You get the idea)
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To: HiJinx; JackelopeBreeder
Ever since I heard an interview a few weeks back with the head of border security (Asa Hutchinson) by a So. Cal. radio talk show host, it has convinced me the borders are not owned by America anymore.

"It's rather ironic that Eisenhower announced the interstate project as the "National Defense Highway System", isn't it? It's now being turned into a paved four-lane invasion route." - - Charles Martel

6 posted on 07/30/2004 6:53:17 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (JOHN KERRY is as much like the WORKING MAN as WHOOPIE GOLDBERG is to GEORGE W. BUSH! - Vote BUSH!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Cowan stated that for every immigrant death reported by authorities, there are 10 more that go unreported.

Of course he doesn't have to prove anything --- and his numbers are absurd.

7 posted on 07/30/2004 6:54:25 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ

Even the hardest working are CRIMINAL INVADERS!


8 posted on 07/30/2004 6:59:45 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: JackelopeBreeder

In paragraph 7:

1."the rate of recidivism ... is so low as to be ... statistically insignificant"

2."felons... is just a label that can be applied ...depending upon how many times they've been apprehended..."

3."..as of July 15, agents have apprehended 8,283 convicted felons attempting to cross..."


So...when they use the word "felon" they don't mean a criminal, they just mean someone who has tried more than once. The rate of apprehended crossers who try again is insgnificant, yet they have caught 8,283 of them in the last 15 days.

Do these things all go together?


9 posted on 07/30/2004 7:05:31 PM PDT by LouisWu (I want more baloons, !@#$#^&! What the *&^% are you guys doing up there?!)
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To: LouisWu

You're on the right track with your thoughts, but your reading of the article is a little skewed.

When they say 'felons', they really do mean felons and they're not talking about the 'felony' of trying to reenter the US.

When the article says 'as of July 15', that is the period from the beginning of the fiscal year - 1 October '03 - until 7/15.


10 posted on 07/30/2004 7:19:30 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: LouisWu
Do these things all go together?

Nope.

1. The coyotes openly brag that all of their customers eventually make it across if they don't give up. Get caught on Monday; make it on Tuesday.

2. The first apprehension is a misdemeanor; all subsequent apprehensions are felonies. The felonies mutiply with the lifestyle. If a US citizen engaged in document fraud, welfare fraud, tax evasion, etc., I don't think Uncle Suck would pass it off as a minor social faux pas.

3. That should read ."..as of July 15, agents have apprehended 8,283 (violent, previously deported) convicted felons attempting to cross (again and carry on with their normal behavior pattern...)"

11 posted on 07/30/2004 7:27:25 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: HiJinx

OK, I see a bit. I read "as of" and interpreted it to mean "since". I understand that error.

It still seems to me as if our compassionate dimwit is saying that the BP attaches the title "felon" to repeat crossers in an attempt to discount the seriousness of the label, then quotes BP stats describing over 8000 of these people. Eight thousand doesn't seem like a neglegible figure, even with my better undestanding of the time frame.


12 posted on 07/30/2004 7:28:33 PM PDT by LouisWu (I want more baloons, !@#$#^&! What the *&^% are you guys doing up there?!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
I am a staunch conservative and I live near the Mexican border. I think those who advocate making it easy and putting watering stations throughout the desert are idiots. I don't like what is happening but I refuse to let anyone die if I can prevent it. I have fed illegals and I have given them water. My husband has found one who died in the desert of exposure.

I'm not going to aid and abet but I will not let a fellow human being die when I can prevent it. I do call the Border Patrol when I come across one .

13 posted on 07/30/2004 7:30:06 PM PDT by tiki
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

I know --- but when I drive by and see these old people who I know are from Mexico out working in the fields in 100 plus temperature --- and then see how some of the legals are very lazy and never did work but get all kinds of taxpayer money --- I think I'd trade some around --- deport the welfare legals and let the harder working illegals stay in their place.

It irks me because it seems any one --- even someone already on government assistance of some form themselves, can bring over their relatives who have no ability to work and let the taxpayers provide for them --- yet the INS detention center here had some 75 year old guy who was extremely distraught about finding himself behind bars, he had only come to work because his family was desperate. He didn't see how taking a lowly job could be a crime and he had never been in jail in his whole life.

Not that what he did was right --- but I'd trade him for that lazier bunch we also see that happens to be here legally.


14 posted on 07/30/2004 7:32:25 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: LouisWu

Numbers are wild and wonderful. The BP nabbed about 905,000 here on the border last year. They guesstimate they caught maybe one in five, so it might be that 3.6 million made it across safely. But then again, most of that 905,000 tried again and made it, too. So what is the true number?

Praise Allah and pass the guacamole.


15 posted on 07/30/2004 7:33:55 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: LouisWu
So...when they use the word "felon" they don't mean a criminal, they just mean someone who has tried more than once.

A felon is someone who committed a felony crime --- and there are many felons coming over the border --- it's actually a misdemeanor at most to have just been found on the wrong side of the border.

The border patrol is very lenient actually on Mexicans. If they encounter one here illegally --- as long as the illegal doesn't claim US citizenship, present stolen or fake documents, they can choose "voluntary departure" which doesn't go on their record. They can do the voluntary departure over and over and over --- as long as they don't misrepresent their citizenship or were found committing another crime, that's all they get. The only thing they might have to lie about is having a job.

16 posted on 07/30/2004 7:37:40 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ

I understand but they should revolt from their slime
ball leaders.


17 posted on 07/30/2004 7:40:07 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: tiki

I know what you mean -- and I'd bet a healthy sum that the evil "vigilante gangs" here in Cochise County have already rescued more illegals than these goofballs ever will. The only difference is we always turn them over to the Border Patrol.


18 posted on 07/30/2004 7:41:12 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"...Cowan stated that is just a label that can be applied to undocumented aliens depending upon how many times they've been apprehended while crossing the border."

IIRC, the label more appropriately fits persons in Cowan's business who aid and abet Illegaliens....

19 posted on 07/30/2004 7:43:03 PM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: LouisWu

I lost track of which article we were discussing!

This is the one about the workshop held in Bisbee to teach people how to help the illegals survive, but the real goal of the group is to circumvent our national borders.

With that in mind, I don't place a whole lot of credence in the validity of the workshop leader's rhetoric, especially where it helps her cause and hurts ours.


20 posted on 07/30/2004 7:43:49 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: tiki; JackelopeBreeder
Strong words, tiki, and good ones.

A very real conundrum we all face is how we deal with this issue on both micro and macro levels....and those levels in between.

Like you, I would never allow an individual to die in the desert. On the other hand, I'd like to see the border sealed from Matamoras to San Diego, with just the International Ports of Entry left open.

In between, I have a friend living on a smuggling trail who lives in fear due to the hundreds of illegals parading through her front and back yard at all hours of the night.

I'm not going to aid and abet but I will not let a fellow human being die when I can prevent it. I do call the Border Patrol when I come across one .

IMHO, this is the right way to handle our problem.

Out of curiousity...do you live here with us? Or are you on a different stretch of the border?

21 posted on 07/30/2004 7:48:25 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Cowan says ignorance is the key. "All you have to do, the most important thing is, to not ask if they are illegal or where they are from!" Cowan says if they are in the United States, then if volunteers don't ask, they can assume they are helping citizens.

This Cowan clown is playing with fire. Pretending that he doesn't know what's going on when he's well aware that he's aiding illegal aliens isn't going to cut it when he has his butt hauled before a judge

22 posted on 07/30/2004 7:48:40 PM PDT by judgeandjury
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Exactly --- I'll be the first one to admit that all illegals are not exactly the same, some are more benign than others, some are extremely dangerous. And it's easy to pity --- but pity is a bad emotion because it doesn't always lead to the most effective approach. At some point all this non-stop massive immigration cannot just keep going on --- the saturation point has already been reached --- and at that point they need to stop leaving and start fixing up their own country. Fixing up Mexico would be the most beneficial for the most people --- and it's not getting fixed with all it's citizens packing up and flooding over the border.


23 posted on 07/30/2004 7:49:33 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: judgeandjury

She's long overdue...

"The primary speaker for the workshop was Margo Cowan, who has defended undocumented people for 35 years. Cowan was indicted in 1972 by the Nixon Administration on 52 counts of aiding and abetting illegal aliens; the charges were dropped by former President Jimmy Carter. Cowan currently serves as legal counsel to Rep. Raul Grijalva."

My tagline is a personal gift from Don Raul de Aztlan himself. I believe he's still vice president of my fan club.


24 posted on 07/30/2004 8:06:49 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

"Praise Allah and pass the guacamole."

Ha ha ha ha ha!


25 posted on 07/30/2004 8:33:30 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Because platitudes don't take precedence over law, that's why.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Somehow it should be easy enough to lojack their vehihicles or even better, set up a sting to LOOK LIKE these law breakers.

BTW someone should report this lawyer to the bar. You can't be a licensed lawyer and law breaker, they get picky about that.


26 posted on 07/30/2004 8:56:59 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: FITZ; JackelopeBreeder

Sorry, guys; too much exposure to this white-washed traitor activity makes me light-headed.

We were the world's remaining superpower until Bill Clinton and the free traders helped China get up to speed. China and every other country I know of (outside of Islam-contaminated Europe) has a shoot-first policy regarding invaders. America is a laughing stock because it refuses to safeguard it's own sovereignty. Even worse, the international community has come to regard us as Mexico's personal prison-bitch for reasons we citizens remain unprivy to. Our better diplomats are expected to go out and promote freedom and democracy while the government they represent has pissed those principles away for the sake of short-term profit pirates.

NOW the butcher has come for the bill while those responsible have left us all alone on the stoop to meet him. It's not enough that we tolerate lowered wages, higher taxation and cultural contamination. Now we can expect the senseless hatred of terrorism to further degrade our existance so the gated ones can eak out that last nickel of lucre. With them there's never enough. When did they get the reigns of our national policy?


27 posted on 07/30/2004 9:06:36 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Because platitudes don't take precedence over law, that's why.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
Hey now. It's a nice fat full moon tonight over this high desert paradise. Just imagine the sightseeing a little later...


28 posted on 07/30/2004 9:33:37 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Yeah, I'm wrapped a little too tight. Regarding the wonders of God's creation does give me hope that the worst mankind can do will never amount to squat in His scheme of things. Thanks.


29 posted on 07/30/2004 9:47:25 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Because platitudes don't take precedence over law, that's why.)
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To: tiki

How very nice and Christian of you!
Damn you to the hell you deserve!

Would you care to explain to my daughter why people who "hable espanol" means an unsafe area?

Care to tell my child why it is vital that she learns Spanish, instead of the language of her natural ancestors?

Care to tell me why I have to put up and pay for the rejected citizens of a foreign country, instead of carefully monitoring a real revolution on our border?

How very Christian of you, to make it my problem, and not yours.


30 posted on 07/30/2004 9:50:16 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: NewRomeTacitus

I'm always wrapped too tight anymore.

A bunch of us down here are trying our best to arrange felony charges against this bunch. I would love to see them bulldozed by the full weight of Title 8, US Code. Some people just naturally look better wearing orange.


31 posted on 07/30/2004 9:59:24 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
You probably shouldn't have said that much, which illustrates the magnitude of the overall problem - weasels lacking the courage of men but always ready to bite like a tail-less diamondback while you're looking the other way. All part of the creeping culture of corruption I keep going on about.

"Austin City No-Limits is brought to you by NAFTA: The Third World is just outside your door. And the Ford Foundation: Betraying your ancestors' legacy and sacrifices since 1964."

32 posted on 07/30/2004 10:30:55 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Because platitudes don't take precedence over law, that's why.)
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To: HiJinx

I live in New Mexico and our farms are often a highway for illegals.


33 posted on 07/30/2004 10:57:48 PM PDT by tiki
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To: sarasmom

Would you care to explain your extreme anger and hatred? You sound rabid. Have you had your shots or do I need to go in for treatments. You sound like a Dimocrat. If you have a solution then propose one. I don't and neither does our government. The military has been tried, contrary to what you hear. Until Mexico is as prosperous as the US they will come.


34 posted on 07/30/2004 11:07:03 PM PDT by tiki
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To: HiJinx

Bump.


35 posted on 07/31/2004 1:00:53 AM PDT by Brownie74
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To: tiki
The military has been tried, contrary to what you hear.

In what way? You are the first the say anything of the sort. Did they use a platoon and then say "It's not working." and then pull them off?

I want this stopped and people like you are abetting criminals whose unintended goal (for the most part, although I know that for some it is their intended goal) is the destruction of the U.S.

And, I agee with Sarasmom that I don't like the hispanic culture in any way. It's a culture of mostly scum.

36 posted on 07/31/2004 4:07:19 AM PDT by raybbr (My 1.4 cents - It used to be 2 cents, but after taxes - you get the idea.)
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To: tiki

Also, I would not help them in any way.


37 posted on 07/31/2004 4:08:30 AM PDT by raybbr (My 1.4 cents - It used to be 2 cents, but after taxes - you get the idea.)
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To: tiki

"You sound like a Dimocrat. If you have a solution then propose one. I don't and neither does our government. The military has been tried, contrary to what you hear. Until Mexico is as prosperous as the US they will come."

actually you are the one talking like a demoncrat. We give up, we cannot do it. Ohh, it is so unfair that they have less than us. Until we make as little as they do and have no more jobs then all will be fair and right and then they will stop coming.


38 posted on 07/31/2004 5:32:22 AM PDT by PersonalLiberties (An honest politician is one who, when he's bought, stays bought. -Simon Cameron, political boss)
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To: tiki

That's what ranchers here are experiencing...but the word of that is only reaching our Representatives very slowly. and the national press even more slowly.

This has taken upwards of five years in our case with Congressman Kolbe, R-AZ.


39 posted on 07/31/2004 3:10:48 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: raybbr
And, I agee with Sarasmom that I don't like the hispanic culture in any way. It's a culture of mostly scum.

Also, I would not help them in any way.

Those are very vitriolic statements to make and I'm wondering if you are really as cold hearted as that. There are quite a few Hispanic FReepers who would take exception to your comments. My new daughter-in-law and her military veteran Hispanic (from Spain) father and grandfather would likely kick your butt for making those comments.

There are some hispanics, like the bozo who ran a red light and totalled my son's car, for whom I wouldn't give you a plug nickle. But this is the kind of thing you experience on an individual basis...you don't apply your dislike of individuals to an entire ethnicity, and you don't disparage FReepers who face these life and death situations on a regular basis. That's not what we're about.

40 posted on 07/31/2004 4:11:08 PM PDT by HiJinx (Lt. John Kerry was a war hero. So was Gen. Benedict Arnold.)
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To: HiJinx
I stand by what I posted. There is nothing about the hispanic culture that draws me to it. Not the language, the machismo way of life, the lack of respect for women, the way they won't speak English around me at work, the fact that they are breaking laws every day they are here, the fact that they don't wash after using the restroom, etc. What about all that should I respect?

I would NOT help in ANY way. I said it again.

41 posted on 07/31/2004 7:55:14 PM PDT by raybbr (My 1.4 cents - It used to be 2 cents, but after taxes - you get the idea.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

pick them up and send them back to mexico


42 posted on 07/31/2004 7:57:00 PM PDT by The Wizard (Demonrats: enemies of America)
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To: Happy2BMe
Ever since I heard an interview a few weeks back with the head of border security (Asa Hutchinson) by a So. Cal. radio talk show host, it has convinced me the borders are not owned by America anymore.

I listened to it on ABP website, it was the most laughable and classic example of government new speak, tail chasing, zero action non-policy sellout I have EVER had the nauseating experience to have suffered through. IF the interviewer had asked Hutchinson if the sun would rise in the east, Hutchen would have begun to drone on about

"implementing joint policy and continuing to hold the high standards of safety within multi-juristional layers of responsibility to insure the effective enforcement of interior enforcement activities that can't be seen by visible means but involve fugitive operations enforcement efforts that are important rolls to play but he can't confirm any statistics being cited or reviewed in regards to economic migrates but by golly they enforce the immigration policy of this country and we can expect to see multi-agencie enforcement activity by visible means really really soon!"

It is a shame the guy can't enforce the immigration LAWS of this country . . . . .

In the meantime I suggest working a little overtime and spending it at the local G-Show.

43 posted on 07/31/2004 9:06:29 PM PDT by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: TLI

Thank you for your post. And you're right, it is a shame. The money flow must go on.


44 posted on 07/31/2004 9:19:49 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (JOHN KERRY is as much like the WORKING MAN as WHOOPIE GOLDBERG is to GEORGE W. BUSH! - Vote BUSH!)
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To: raybbr
I stand by what I posted. There is nothing about the hispanic culture that draws me to it. Not the language, the machismo way of life, the lack of respect for women, the way they won't speak English around me at work, the fact that they are breaking laws every day they are here, the fact that they don't wash after using the restroom, etc. What about all that should I respect?

While I am pretty much in agreement with you, I disagree with using the word "hispanic" to describe this particular "culture". To me, the word "hispanic" is a generic buzzword that the government uses as some catch-all description of anyone from a Spanish speaking country.

The illegals from Mexico that I live around could best be described as Mexico's version of a Jerry Springer guest. I prefer to refer to them as white trash of color.

YMMV

45 posted on 08/01/2004 1:37:47 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: DumpsterDiver
I use hispanic to mean the illegals of spanish origin or whatever they call themselves. I consider them as the trash that is spoiling our country. Not all people of spanish descent are bad just the ones that look at this country as place they can come and steal from us. I guess you are right; they are trash.

I just wish there was some way to stop them and make the apologists see that by accomodating them they are making the situation worse. Allowing them to break many laws, regardless of their intentions, creates a sense of entitlement that is getting harder and harder to break. Also, allowing someone to be a criminal does not engender self-respect and it certainly doesn't make me look at them in a respectful light.

46 posted on 08/01/2004 3:27:33 PM PDT by raybbr (My 1.4 cents - It used to be 2 cents, but after taxes - you get the idea.)
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