Italian company gets Indian carrier contract

cnnmoney ^ | july28,2004

[sukhoi-30mki]

MILAN -(Dow Jones)- Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri SpA said Wednesday it has signed two contracts with the Cochin shipyard in India to help build a new aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy.

[Joe Brower]

Perhaps of interest, gents.

[Mariner]

38k tons.

Similar in size to our amphibious assault carriers. Helos and STOL aircraft......power projection on the sub-continent and nearby littorals.

However, it's apparent India is thinking long-term and wants to start building institutional experience with these systems. I have no doubt that 25 years from now India will be building its own fleet of warships.......and they will be THE counter-balance to Chinese aspirations.

[Southack]

"India's planned 38,000-ton "Air Defense Ship" will be one of the largest aircraft carriers in service with conventional propulsion based on four General Electric Co. (GE) LM 2500 gas turbines. The propulsion system is similar to that of Italy's Cavour aircraft carrier, built by Fincantieri and launched in Genoa on July 20 of this year."

Given the options of cheap-labor China, Russia, France, and India herself, she goes with American propulsion units and Italian design.

Which is to say, this will be a serviceable, real aircraft carrier useful for actual combat (instead of some sort of national ego piece).

India means business with this one.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Cronos]

India needs a couple of carriers to well, 'carry' it's weight in the Indian ocean -- it's already in joint patrol with the US navy to keep the Indian ocean free of pirates -- but they aren't allowed in Indonesia waters (the Malacca Straits) where a lot of piracy takes place.

[Cronos]

Mostly the Indians seem to want to ensure that the Indian Ocean and Central Asia upto Kazakhstan remains in the Indian sphere of influence. The Russians intend on Central Asia and the northern Pacific to be in their sphere of influence. The Japanese also want their slice ofthe action, so they owuld mostly be unitiing to keep the Chinese contained

China on the other hand is buildign up ties with theIslamic world

[mandingo republican]

I guess it's going to be powered by curry and cow dung!

Any pretty Bollywood starlets?

[sukhoi-30mki]

Actually India has been operating carriers since 1961,the 1st Asian navy to operate one after the WW2-If this carrier does come online ,it will be the 4th(but 1st Indian built ship) to don the navy's colours.The first carrier ,INS VIKRANT(ex-HMS HERCULES) bombed Pakistani bases in modern Bangladesh in the 71 war.
The selection of many of the systems on this ship will hinge on the performance of those on the Russian carrier,Admiral Gorshkov(which is undergoing upgradation for delivery in 2008 to the IN)-
1.The airgroup of the ADS will probably be between 30-35 planes & helos at most,with the Russian Mig-29k(which will serve on the Gorshkov),French Rafale M & a naval variant of India's own light combat aircraft being the prime contenders.

2.The ASW & search & rescue role will probably be shared between India's naval light helo(Dhruv) with the French Cougar & NH-90 probably slugging it out for the role of heavy duty choppers.

3.The AEW chopper is the only one which has one contender-the Russian KA-31.

4.The New Carriers point defence systems too are up for grabs with the European Aster-15,Israeli Barak-2 & Russian Kashtan missile systems all possible contenders.

[Southack]

"*Second Italian aircraft carrier launched The bow and central section of the Italian Navy's new Conte di Cavour-class aircraft carrier, ITS Conte di Cavour, was launched on 20 July 2004 at Fincantieri's shipyard in Riva Trigoso, Italy. Conte di Cavour has been built within a relatively short time frame, which is largely been enabled by close co-operation between the two shipyards of the Naval Vessel Business Unit, Riva Trigoso (Genoa) and Muggiano (La Spezia). 27-Jul-2004"

It might be worth noting that some armed forces feel a certain urgency...

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Southack]

"The airgroup of the ADS will probably be between 30-35 planes & helos at most,with the Russian Mig-29k(which will serve on the Gorshkov),French Rafale M & a naval variant of India's own light combat aircraft being the prime contenders."

Keep in mind that with the vstol JSF and Euro-Fighter programs in financial jeopardy, that India's money might finally be accepted for one or both.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Cronos]

"powered by curry and cow dung"

You mean like these other ships built by the Indians?

The Delhi class destroyers:

Displacement: 6700 - 6900 tons full load.

Dimensions: Length - 163 metres.

................Beam - 17 metres.

................Draught - 6.5 metres.



or their Khukri class corvettes:

[Cronos]

Pretty starlets. Googled some!

[sukhoi-30mki]

I think the naval Euro-fighter is pretty much dead & buried (though it would have been one heck of a platform)-IT would have to be 2 partner venture as Italy & Spain don't operate carriers which could take a big jet like that(& the Germans don't have carriers)& the Brits are firm on the JSF,despite problems & delays.

Bout the JSF,sorry to say this-it would take nothing short of a miracle to get the US & India working on one project.The US(govt) has always been very picky & stepmotherly when it came to arms sales to India & the Indian services too are cold to American products (has nothing to do with quality)-The US tendency to impose sanctions after the slightest instant & the embargo on vital spares like that on the SeaKing helos,Sea Harriers & HDW subs after the 98 tests are still fresh in Indian minds-moreover there are now entrenched Russian,Israeli & French lobbies in the Indian defence ministry &this combined with the fact that these countries are very flexible on arms sales & tech transfer make any major Indo-US weapons deal very remote.
If the JSF was a British product -things would have been different(but u never know)-that's one reason why the Sea Harrier was purchased despite having American subsystems.

[Southack]

"I think the naval Euro-fighter is pretty much dead & buried..."

Oh, I agree...but you never know how things will turn out when you've got political jobs on the line, a cancelled project, and a willing foreign buyer with ca$h on hand.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Cronos]

ANd India has quite a lot of experience on getting a myriad range of systems from different suppliers to work together.

[Non-Sequitur]

Bump

[tjwmason]

the Brits are firm on the JSF,despite problems & delays

Look at the Euro-fighter (have they renamed it Typhoon?), and indeed at Concorde. We are always at the front of the queue to throw money at projects which develop problems which need much extra cash to sort them out.

It's not even restricted to our military. We also have the 'Millenium Dome' and the Scottish Parliament building. Though, unlike our wonderful military, they are both utterly useless, and run by idiotic fools.

[razoroccam]

Better that than lousy Cuban cigars.

[Jordi]

The Italian "Conte di Cavour" named in the article

[Grampa Dave]

Evil India outsourcing its carrier's turbines to America.

[sukhoi-30mki]

India has had a pretty good modern naval tradition stretching back for around 200years (when the Brits ruled).

Did you know that the 3 instances which convinced the USN for absolute need & improvement of weapons like the Harpoon & then ,the Tomahawk had nothing to do with the US-

1.In 1967,Egyptian missile boats fired their Soviet Styx anti-ship cruise missiles to sink the Israeli destroyer-the 1st sinking of a ship by a missile.

2.In the 1971,India-Pak war,Indian missile boats sink Paki warships in Karachi harbour with their Styx missiles & launched an attack using the same weapon on Pakistani oil farms-the 1st landward attack by a missile,20yrs b4 the Tomahawk struck Iraq(though the Styx was primarily an anti-ship missile with less than 1/20 of the Tomahawk's range or accuracy)

3.The guidelines for modern anti-ship warfare were laid in the 1973 Yom Kippur war,when the Israeli navy used its (indegnious) Gabriel anti-ship missiles to sink & destroy numerous Syrian & Egyptian ships,with not a single Israeli ship falling to a Styx.

[Southack]

Using the ski jump ramp for take-offs likewise decreases the maintenance cycle. For someone just getting into sea-power, that's the right move. The Italians know their stuff, and India is wise to contract with them for their expertise.

The sad thing is that India has tried to buddy up to France & Germany.

Had they been more rational, they could have brought their old ally Russia much closer to the U.S.

We are, after all, fighting the same enemy; be it in Chechnya, Kashmir, or Afghanistan/Iraq.

Perhaps, India is beginning to see the error of its ways, though. Italy is on our side, as is Israel.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well the Indian navy has been using ski-jumps since 1983 ,when the 1st Sea Harriers arrived -it modified it's
existing carrier ,the now decomissioned INS Vikrant(purchased in 61 & used in the 71 war,long before the Italians knew what a carrier is) & the still serving INS Viraat(Falkands veteran) arrived in 86 with a ski-jump to launch Harriers & SeaKing choppers.

"the sad thing is that India has tried to buddy up to France & Germany"

Well u have to team up with anyone who is willing to help you out ,without any strings attached,unfortunately the US has been touchy about selling India military tech,the French have been very open on that & tech transfer & security against sanctions.If you use the same logic-is the US being pals with Pakistan or Egypt or the UAE because they share the same values??it's national interests & the US is not the only country with national interests.

Well i don't know if you remember it,but after the Sept 11th
carnage India along with Israel was among the 1st nations offer all sorts of assistance possible WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS. we all know what happened afterwards.Well usually it is very helpful if the bigger power takes the 1st step-unfortunately most people across India,Russia &
even some in Israel see the US govt as having a biased approach to terrorism ("my" terrorism & "ur" terrorism)-Why does'nt Washington do anything when it's main ally in the Persian Gulf,Qatar jails 2 Russian agents for killing a Chechen terrorist based there(Qatar & other committed US
"allies" like the UAE,Bahrein,Egypt & Tunisia harbour numerous Chechen,Palestinian & Paki terrorists)-u cannot make someone fight with you when u tie one of his hands & criticise whatever he does with his other.

[Jordi]

"....long before the Italians knew what a carrier is.... Excuse me, but has an half-blood Italian I just make you notice that, while not being a great sea power,Italy has been building carriers for awhile:

Aquila^ - 1944

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well sorry if u felt offended by my "chauvenistic" statement!!!But the question remains did the Aquila serve with the Italian navy for any period of time,which it did'nt ,due to various reasons .Besides I stressed the fact India is the 1st asian country AFTER WW2 to acquire a carrier-we're talking about post 1945 carrier aviation here-where new players like Brzil & Argentina too acquired carriers.Hence till the Garibaldi came online in the 80s Italy did not have a carrier in the true sense.Ul have to class Japan & Germany with them as the Germans had begun work on a carrier(not completed or seen service) & Japan ,well -who needs to describe that-though they now have a baby helo carrier,the Osumi.

[ffusco]

Should have christened Cavour the Gulio Cesare, Roma or Aquila (eagle)

[sukhoi-30mki]

Actually,The new Italian carrier was to be known as the Andrea Doria(the current Italian carrier is named the Garibaldi) & it was known all over as the A.D . I think the decision to name it the Cavour was taken early this year.Whatever it is-it's going to be a very versatile ship-capable of both amphibious assault & the aircraft carrier role(which will be rather limited though).