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Free State Project organizer killed
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=7679;start=0#lastPost ^

Posted on 08/01/2004 9:23:06 AM PDT by Dada Orwell

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1 posted on 08/01/2004 9:23:07 AM PDT by Dada Orwell
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To: Dada Orwell

New Hampster? Why on earth there?


2 posted on 08/01/2004 9:36:15 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("I actually was going to throw like a man before I threw like a girl." JFK 7/25/2004)
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To: Dada Orwell

What's this group about, and how was he killed?


3 posted on 08/01/2004 9:39:03 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (~*-,._.,-*~Loves her hubbit~*-,._.,-*~)
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To: Dada Orwell
From their web site:

I just learned that Malcolm "Mose" Hastings, a dedicated FSP member and Organizer, has been killed in an accident. Mose was a CPA who advised and assisted FSP Treasurers past and present very capably. He also briefly served as interim Treasurer himself. He was a joy to have around on the Organizers list and to work with.

Prayers go out to his family.

4 posted on 08/01/2004 9:40:01 AM PDT by Prime Choice (When Clinton lies, he insults our integrity. When Kerry lies, he insults our intelligence.)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Killed in an accident.


5 posted on 08/01/2004 9:40:46 AM PDT by Tax Government
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To: Tax Government

Shh. You've taken out all the mystery.


6 posted on 08/01/2004 9:42:17 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Dada Orwell
These LIBERTARIANS can just go somewhere else. They are so FOS all there eyes are brown.

NH does not want the FS!!

7 posted on 08/01/2004 9:44:54 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: HairOfTheDog
They work to bring about more freedom in one state by organizing to have 20,000 freedom lovers move their and work to promote political freedom. New Hampshire was chosen by a ballot process designed to satisfy a supermajority of the members.

They believe in reducing taxes and coercion. One of their strong desires is to limit the power of the federal government in the states by refusing federal mandates enforced by monetary extortion. These exist in many forms, but essentially say "Do what we say, or we will not give back the money we took from you."

It is generally known as "revenue sharing". It is how the federal government has enforced ever more intrusive control over schools, peace officers, collection of citizen data bases, and land use.

8 posted on 08/01/2004 9:48:43 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Dada Orwell

9 posted on 08/01/2004 9:50:03 AM PDT by Spunky ("Everyone has a freedom of choice, but not of consequences.")
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To: Larry Lucido
We always have conspiracy theorists to keep it interesting.

I mean, where WAS Hillery when this "accident" happened, HHMMMM???????
10 posted on 08/01/2004 9:51:36 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (I want to die in my sleep like Gramps -- not yelling and screaming like those in his car)
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To: sirchtruth

We're coming anyway


11 posted on 08/01/2004 9:51:49 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: marktwain
It is generally known as "revenue sharing". It is how the federal government has enforced ever more intrusive control over schools, peace officers, collection of citizen data bases, and land use.

Bump.

I have updated my FMCDH sign-off with the addition of (BITS).....Blood In The Streets, which I foresee coming soon, due to the enormous increase of the communist progressive movement being shoved down the throat of this failing REPUBLIC through the Judicial tyranny of fiat law, and the passing of unconstitutional laws by the Legislative and Executive branches of our government.

FMCDH(BITS)

12 posted on 08/01/2004 9:53:02 AM PDT by nothingnew (KERRY: "If at first you don't deceive, lie, lie again!")
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To: Dada Orwell

I thought they wanted to move to one of the Carolinas.


13 posted on 08/01/2004 9:56:18 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: muir_redwoods
We're coming anyway

This statement reflects the arrogant, selfish, attitude of most of the liberts. I know.

It seriously makes your mentality WORSE than many libs, and for this you will continue to show the country what true immature LOSERS act like.

14 posted on 08/01/2004 9:59:53 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: MissAmericanPie

IIRC, that was a Christian group. FSP is a small-l libertarian group.


15 posted on 08/01/2004 10:07:02 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ('Hey, maybe "Jihadists For Kerry" is what "JFK" really stands for.' --Blood of Tyrants)
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To: freedumb2003

True. "Killed" can mean murdered or fell through an open manhole. By not saying the latter, folks can think it's the former.

Of course, some folks will attribute the open manhole to some conspiracy.


16 posted on 08/01/2004 10:07:17 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Prime Choice

Off topic, Prime, but it is really good to see you here.


17 posted on 08/01/2004 10:15:17 AM PDT by Bahbah
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To: sirchtruth

At least I don't speak of what I do not understand. Don't be so afraid of a position whose sole tenet is to never initiate force against another. That's the soul of libertarianism.


18 posted on 08/01/2004 10:18:30 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: sirchtruth
Well you better let the NH republican party know...because they've welcomed us with open arms.
The only folks upset at the idea are the democrats...I guess you better choose sides.
19 posted on 08/01/2004 10:29:20 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: marktwain

If we made states collection agents for all federal taxes, we could eliminate the IRS. We'd pay our federal tax liability to our state & our states would then cut a check to the feds...

My state's Dept of Revenue is worse than the IRS in a lot of ways, but I'd still prefer this way to finance the federal government.


20 posted on 08/01/2004 10:58:11 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: muir_redwoods
That's the soul of libertarianism.

The soul of Libert. is to reign without regard to citizen accountability. It's fine to want smaller, less intrusive gov't, but not one that totally shirks it's responsibility for an irresponsible selfish populace to go through life unaccountable for all it's actions.

Libertarianism is just another wolf dressed in sheep's clothing.

21 posted on 08/01/2004 11:16:51 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: Katya
Well you better let the NH republican party know...because they've welcomed us with open arms.

They have...when?

22 posted on 08/01/2004 11:18:18 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: freedumb2003

ARKANCIDE?


23 posted on 08/01/2004 11:20:40 AM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Larry Lucido

You got a problem with truth telling sir???

http://cbn2.tripod.com/ark2.html


24 posted on 08/01/2004 11:22:26 AM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dada Orwell; All
Libertarian: Anarchist in sensible shoes.
How can you recognze a Libertarian at a picnic: Empty hands and a full appetite.
25 posted on 08/01/2004 11:38:05 AM PDT by olde north church (<a href="http://www.trentonrevlution.com">trentonrevolution</a>)
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To: cyborg

I agree that Buddy the dog was definitely an Arkancide.


26 posted on 08/01/2004 1:00:22 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: muir_redwoods
We're coming anyway

I live in Grafton NH, the 'targeted' town for your invasion. Be assured you are not welcome here.

27 posted on 08/01/2004 1:20:38 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: sirchtruth
The soul of Libert. is to reign without regard to citizen accountability. It's fine to want smaller, less intrusive gov't, but not one that totally shirks it's responsibility for an irresponsible selfish populace to go through life unaccountable for all it's actions.

I have to admit, I don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. I wonder if you could humor me by explaining just a teeny weeny little bit.

28 posted on 08/01/2004 1:28:10 PM PDT by freedom_forge
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To: olde north church
How can you recognze a Libertarian at a picnic: Empty hands and a full appetite.

Are you saying libertarians want a free lunch???? I kinda recall libertarian bumper stickers pronouncing that there was "no such thing as a free lunch." Are you sure you aren't describing some other group?? I am mystified. Truly.

29 posted on 08/01/2004 1:33:19 PM PDT by freedom_forge
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To: sirchtruth
NH does not want the FS!!

Right. Your property taxes are out of control...ten times higher than many states in the south. There are a number of people in NH that are very excited that there could be twenty thousand people on their way to NH to help them get their taxes dramatically reduced. I am a conservative, and one of the reasons I returned to New Hampshire was to help support the Free Staters get oppresive liberal government off of our backs. My wife and I are native to NH, and we WELCOME the Free Staters with open arms. The democrats vehemently oppose them...gee, I wonder why?

30 posted on 08/01/2004 1:42:55 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: BackwoodsBubba
I live in Grafton NH, the 'targeted' town for your invasion. Be assured you are not welcome here.

Urban legend. I doubt you will even see four or five people move to Grafton...all available jobs are at least 45 minutes away in Lebanon. You don't seem to mind all the far-left idiots from Massachusetts moving into New Hampshire, but you have a problem with people that support liberty and Constitutional principles? last time I checked, Americans were permitted to move any damn place they pleased within the confines of the United States. By the way...I am not a libertarian...I will be voting Peroutka (Constitution Party) in the November elections.

31 posted on 08/01/2004 1:49:56 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: olde north church

I like your "picnic" definition. I'm not sure what percentage of the 'tarians know that it's based on parasitism. There's never been a 'tarian society. That's not b/c "not enough people are smart enough to understand the wonderfulness of it." It's b/c not enough people will allow the grotesquely selfish degeneracy of it at their expense. If you're over 30 and a 'tarian - you've got a problem.


32 posted on 08/01/2004 1:55:36 PM PDT by 185JHP ( "If the Lord God is your Copilot, you need to change seats." (d,v,c)
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To: Katya

REAL interesting how all the so-called NH natives are all upset about this "invasion", when Massachusetts has been invading for years and years. Look what happened to Vermont, which USED to be a conservative state. They dropped their pants and bent over for the M*ssholes and "deadheads", and now conservative Vermonters have NO REPRESENTATION WHATSOEVER in the U. S. House or the U.S. Senate. By the way, conservative New Hampshire??? Who do you think is stirring the pot against the "Free Staters"? Who has the MOST to lose if taxes are cut, theright to bear arms is upheld, and funding to public schools is reduced? That's right, bunky...your "best friends", the Democrats!


33 posted on 08/01/2004 1:57:54 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: freedom_forge
How can you recognze a Libertarian at a picnic: Empty hands and a full appetite.

I'm not a Libertarian, and I know better than that. Libertarians believe in self-sufficiency...your statement describes Democrats, Greens, and Progressives.

34 posted on 08/01/2004 2:00:25 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: who knows what evil?
My wife and I are native to NH, and we WELCOME the Free Staters with open arms

I'm not a native but have lived here for 15 years. The property taxes are high compared to other states, but you neglect to factor in that we do not have a sales or income tax. I own a substantial amount of property and my taxes are a pittance compared to the amount of taxes I'd be paying if we had income and sales taxes in NH.

As for the FSP, my town of Grafton is targeted by the FSP pioneers, known as the 'Porcupines', who intend to move in 200+ people to take over the local governent. Our current local government is the least intrusive government I've ever encountered, and I can honestly say that in all my years here no one connected with the town government has ever caused me a moment of grief.

The FSP got their asses kicked at a town meeting here a month ago and know they are not welcome in the least. If they fit the mold of most of the self centered shits I know who wear the Libertarian label, I'm sure they'll press on in their attempt to take over Grafton. I say bring it on girly men. This is rough country and most newcomers don't last long. 2-3 weeks of non-stop < -20F every year tends to weed out the weaklings.

35 posted on 08/01/2004 2:07:14 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: who knows what evil?
Urban legend

You'd better let the FTP know about it then. They've bought up 400+ acres here and one of the principles recently told me that they are pressing on with development.

You don't seem to mind all the far-left idiots from Massachusetts moving into New Hampshire..

You must have me confused with someone else. About the only use I have for liberals is as bear bait.

Bob Smith conservative here.

36 posted on 08/01/2004 2:14:59 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: BackwoodsBubba
I'm not a native but have lived here for 15 years.

Out of curiosity...where are you from?

The property taxes are high compared to other states, but you neglect to factor in that we do not have a sales or income tax. I own a substantial amount of property and my taxes are a pittance compared to the amount of taxes I'd be paying if we had income and sales taxes in NH.

I am quite aware of the tax situation in NH. However, I sure as h*ll support having my property tax reduced by another 65 to 75%, and a lot of folks around here agree with me. I would rather have people coming to NH that OPPOSE taxes rather than ones who want to raise them all the time, like the true invaders from Mass, Connecticut, New York, ad infinitum. I have NEVER met a tax I liked. How about you?

As for the FSP, my town of Grafton is targeted by the FSP pioneers, known as the 'Porcupines', who intend to move in 200+ people to take over the local governent. Our current local government is the least intrusive government I've ever encountered, and I can honestly say that in all my years here no one connected with the town government has ever caused me a moment of grief.

I know all about that meeting...it was a joke. A lot of this crap was stirred up by plants and rumor-mongers. You will NEVER see 200, much less 20, Free Staters move to Grafton. I was talking to a woman in Grafton recently who believed "Free Staters" intended to build a condo complex there. ROTFLMAO! No one connected with town government has ever caused you a moment of grief? Praise G-d. Free Staters want to KEEP it that way. Unlike liberals (spit), these folks want to RE-INFORCE the values that NH has held dear for over 200 years.

The FSP got their asses kicked at a town meeting here a month ago and know they are not welcome in the least. If they fit the mold of most of the self centered shits I know who wear the Libertarian label, I'm sure they'll press on in their attempt to take over Grafton. I say bring it on girly men. This is rough country and most newcomers don't last long. 2-3 weeks of non-stop < -20F every year tends to weed out the weaklings.

Are you getting Libertarians mixed up with liberals? I am about twenty miles from you, and if ANYONE around here are self-absorbed, self-centered "sh*ts", it is liberal Democrats, Progressives, and Greens. I'd like to round those b*stards up and ship them all back to southern New England. Strike that...ship them back to France where they belong. I went to that festival up in Lancaster out of curiosity. Girly men? Hardly. I saw a sh*tload of sidearms present, displayed openly...357 revolvers, glocks, you name it. Liberals want to BAN guns, THESE libertarians are packing firepower, and plenty of it. I want these guys in MY foxhole if and when the time comes. As for twenty below? Yawn. I've been cross-country skiing in the Adirondacks at 52 below, and I am NOT talking wind chill. On the other hand, I have seen all those so-called "bad-asses" from Texas declining to participate in the FSP because they don't like the snow and cold. I sure am glad George Washington and my Green Mountain Boys ancestors weren't the 'girly-men' that Texans seem to be. If nothing else, twenty below weeds out the TEXANS! :-)

37 posted on 08/01/2004 2:33:36 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: BackwoodsBubba
Urban legend You'd better let the FTP know about it then. They've bought up 400+ acres here and one of the principles recently told me that they are pressing on with development.

I met the GUY (not "they") that owns the 300 (not 400) acres. He took a group of "Free Staters" around to look at the land. He said he wants to divide it up into 6-acre parcels. The response from other FSP'ers was underwhelming, to say the least. Once again...where would they work? Dartmouth-Hitchcock is at least 45 minutes away, and that is along the two-lane Route 4. I'm sure that drive is even worse in winter. I wouldn't put any money on such a "project" ever coming to fruition. Never happen.

You don't seem to mind all the far-left idiots from Massachusetts moving into New Hampshire.. You must have me confused with someone else. About the only use I have for liberals is as bear bait.

My apologies. "You" was a blanket statement. I have never understood why native NH'ers didn't shoot the first few invaders from Mass, and hang them from lamp posts to send a not-so-subtle message to the rest of them. Bear bait? Damn good idea.

Bob Smith conservative here.

Speaking of Bob Smith...remember the gleeful expression on Dan Rather's face election night when he called the race for Smith's opponent, only to have to dine on crow when Smith pulled it out as rural returns came in? ROTF! I still laugh my *ss off every time I see Rather's shrivelled puss. Bob Smith is a GREAT American!

38 posted on 08/01/2004 2:45:38 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (Under the personal care of the Great Physician...full coverage.)
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To: sirchtruth
"They have...when?"

Do a search on FR, or go to the Freestateproject.org site...right after it was announced that the FSP was picking NH. They met with the Governor of New Hampshire as well as representatives from the Republican party. The dems broke out in hysterics.

Well, I guess there's a few you of you who won't want us there.....but you do understand that new warm bodies moving to a state also means revenue for businesses, a greater demand for housing etc. Ah well, we're coming anyway....my families ETA is about four summers from now.

39 posted on 08/01/2004 3:29:07 PM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: who knows what evil?
Right. Your property taxes are out of control...ten times higher than many states in the south.

It has nothing to do with taxes! Liberts are all about living with no accountability which they equate to reduced gov't...

Taxes are only ONE aspect of their agenda that conservatives and republicans just happen to agree with.

I get the impression that if it's up to Liberts there would be no rules are regulations "imposed" so they could live "free"

That is just another way of not be held accountable for your actions.

I'm sorry, the Liberts I know are ALL selfish prix, and think that dems and Repubs are the same, which is totally idiotic.

40 posted on 08/01/2004 3:29:32 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: sirchtruth

All you've said is you don't know what libertarianism is. Learn about it before you react with irrational fear.


41 posted on 08/01/2004 3:33:02 PM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: BackwoodsBubba

I am a libertarian. I am self-sufficient to the greatest degree I can be. I need nothing from you, certainly not your welcome. But, thanks for thinking of me.


42 posted on 08/01/2004 3:35:00 PM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: Katya
Well, I guess there's a few you of you who won't want us there

How many Liberts do you think exist in gov't right now, NOT THAT MANY! You know why, becasue people don't vote for losers...If your ideas are SO great then why have the people not cought on?

Arrogance does not win small town elections.

43 posted on 08/01/2004 3:37:47 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: muir_redwoods
All you've said is you don't know what libertarianism is.

Well I sure as shinola know what the people that call themselves Liberts are all about, Sherlock!

NH will not want any part of your TRUE IDEA of Liberty!

44 posted on 08/01/2004 3:43:40 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: muir_redwoods
All you've said is you don't know what libertarianism is.

Well I sure as shinola know what the people that call themselves Liberts are all about, Sherlock!

NH will not want any part of your TRUE IDEA of Liberty!

45 posted on 08/01/2004 3:44:09 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Do you just think I fell off a turnip truck?)
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To: who knows what evil?
Out of curiosity...where are you from?

VA, FL, CA, AZ, ME, and MD. How does your question relate to the discussion?

Tax issues...have to deal with reality. If the property tax is lowered without a decrease in spending then new sources of revenue would have to be raised elsewhere, most likely in the form of an income tax and or sales tax. I can live with the property tax alone.

I know all about the meeting

The farce was on the FSP/FTP side. Never saw so much squirming and bullshit in all my life....you'd have thought they were Clintonites as hard as they were spinning and avoiding direct answers to the simplest of questions. If it's true that you know what went on at the meeting then you'd know that the FTP representatives stated that they planned to move in 200+ people. I doubt they'll pull it off but that is their stated objective. As for the condo complex, they (FTP) stated at the meeting that they have purchased a 300 acre parcel and intend to build 6 units. John Babiarz is a principle in this development and he told me that they were building condos. So a) John is lying, b) you don't know what you are talking about, or c) you are an FSP/FTP shill. Either way, 6 units on a 300 acre parcel seems kind of lame to me. More likely it's only a start to see if they can get the fools to buy them.

Are you getting Libertarians mixed up with liberals

No, I am not easily confused. I'm simply stating my own experiences with Libertarians. In dealing with them in various parts of the country over the years I can say I've only met a few that I would consider 'stand-up' kind of guys.

So they own a bunch of guns....I'm impressed.

46 posted on 08/01/2004 3:45:03 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: who knows what evil?
They (FTP members/developers) have purchased the 300 acre parcel, plus 2 more parcels. Total is around 400 acres.

Bob Smith was the best thing true conservativism had going for it in this country. He got a little shakey around the time of the Elian thing and never recovered. A shame.

47 posted on 08/01/2004 3:58:58 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: muir_redwoods
I am a libertarian

I am a conservative, who is also as self sufficient as is possible in this day and age. Are you by chance one of the FSP/FTP twits that are planning on ruining my town?

48 posted on 08/01/2004 4:03:37 PM PDT by BackwoodsBubba
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To: sirchtruth

What you're failing to understand is although there are Libertarians who traditionally vote third party, there are many more who vote pragmatically for Republicans, like myself. There are also Libertarians who openly (Ron Paul)run as Republicans...there are also many Republicans who lean Libertarian. The idea of choosing a state to move to, isn't meant as a hostile attitude or act...we chose NH because it is already so close to what many of us aspire to.
Regardless, with the amount of lefties who move there from Taxachussetts...we'll probably just balance them out.


49 posted on 08/01/2004 4:07:49 PM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: BackwoodsBubba

Maybe, How much of that town do you own and how much of the freedom of free people do you claim to control?


50 posted on 08/01/2004 4:48:25 PM PDT by muir_redwoods
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