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BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POOR*? (Fair tax POV of Neal Boortz)
Neal's Nuze ^ | 8/3/04 | Neal Boortz

Posted on 08/03/2004 8:09:52 AM PDT by CSM

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To: CSM
The implementation of the Fair Tax would fail in short order if, as the question presupposes, the net effect on the poor would be the that they would be paying today's prices for a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread, plus a 23% sales tax.
This sentance is misleading. It wouldn't be the price of a gallon of milk (whatever it ends up being) plus a 23% sales tax. It would be the price of a gallon of milk plus a 29.87% sales tax.

If a gallon of milk had a price of $1.00 without tax, you would pay $0.2987 in federal sales taxes.

Yet again using the tax inclusive sales tax rate causes confustion.
41 posted on 08/03/2004 10:04:25 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: CSM

I'll accept nothing less!


42 posted on 08/03/2004 10:05:10 AM PDT by WhiteGuy (Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...)
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To: Your Nightmare

Confusion, in addition to confustion.

;-)


43 posted on 08/03/2004 10:05:25 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: lucysmom

That would depend on the house; newly built house - yes, previously owned house - no. The reason previously owned/used items are not taxed is that taxes were paid once on them. To tax them again would be double/muliple taxation on that item. That is where you can cut your tax bill, by buying used items and doing repairs/services yourself.


44 posted on 08/03/2004 10:07:11 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: Straight Vermonter

No, it is with SS & medicare included. That way those on them are still able to get it, while others can invest in their own futures with the freed up money.


45 posted on 08/03/2004 10:09:30 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: wideawake

Absolutely. I was gonna say the same thing, but didn't want to make the post too long. And since poverty isn't static, why continue to make so much public policy based on the needs of a fluid population?

I think anyone who's been a student, or a young married w/kids, or a young married student w/kids :) knows what poverty is and certainly doesn't plan their life around being in that status the rest of their life.


46 posted on 08/03/2004 10:12:46 AM PDT by radiohead
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To: CSM

You are correct, basically you are paying for the taxes on the materials and the labor used to build the house, landscape, etc.


47 posted on 08/03/2004 10:12:52 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: Guvmint_Cheese

No, its like the standard deduction on your income tax. As the article says, its based upon what a family the size of yours is expected to spend on necessities (however that is defined) and you get the tax on that baseline amount rebated, whether you spend that amount, or more, or less.


48 posted on 08/03/2004 10:14:29 AM PDT by Still Thinking
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To: television is just wrong

The thing about the VAT is that it is hidden from consumers. Is it applied to used items that you buy? If so, that would mean that you would have multiple taxation on an item.


49 posted on 08/03/2004 10:16:08 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: Your Nightmare
Under the current income tax system someone earning $100,000.00 and paying $25,000.00 in tax he says he paid 25% of his income in taxes but, according to you, he should say that he paid 33% because that is the TAX EXCLUSIVE rate.

If we are going to compare apples to apples when we talk about tax systems shouldn't we use the same language in both cases?

50 posted on 08/03/2004 10:20:14 AM PDT by Bigun (IRSsucks@getridof it.com)
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To: lucysmom
Wouldn't the tax benefit for home ownership disapear?

Yes the tax deductions would disappear, but then your property would become more valuable due to more people able to afford it when you decide to sell (they would have more income and would not have to pay any sales taxes on a previously owned home).

51 posted on 08/03/2004 10:21:19 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: CSM
Now ... bear in mind, this rebate isn't only paid to the poor. It is paid to everyone, rich and poor alike. The purpose here is to make sure that no American has to pay the Fair Tax sales tax on the basic necessities of life. Unlike the present income tax system, the Fair Tax treats each and every person in this country exactly the same. This, of course, presents somewhat of a problem to politicians who like to use the tax code to foment class distrust or outright warfare.

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to exempt the necessities - food, clothing, medicine, shelter, and tax the rest? Then you don't need to trck everyone's address or bank account to send monthly checks.

And with all the talking over this issue, why can't anyone come up with a reasonable explanation of what the embeeded tax is, and how high it is? Every article has new figures.

52 posted on 08/03/2004 10:23:58 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Bigun
Listen, I've been through this plenty of times and have shot every one of these "apples to apples" arguments out of the water. I'm not really in the mood to get into it again right now. Regardless, to say "the net effect on the poor would be the that they would be paying today's prices for a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread, plus a 23% sales tax" is just flat out wrong. Whether you believe the rate should be quoted in inclusive or exclusive terms or not. It would be the price plus the exclusive rate, 29.87%.
53 posted on 08/03/2004 10:24:46 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Blood of Tyrants

You're right. Not to mention the reduction of the IRS, tax courts, and all the associated overheard. It would be a huge savings in bureaucracy.


54 posted on 08/03/2004 10:25:40 AM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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To: Phantom Lord
Both left and right, but more so left, are constantly complaining about the influence of money in politics, the power of lobbyists, and sweatheart legislation written for "big contributors" and "special interests."

The fastest and best way to eliminate ALL of that instantly is to eliminate the entire tax code as it exists now. Without question, the greatest amount of money and lobbying done in DC is in regardes to the tax code.

There is something even easier. My liberal dad proposed it to me a few years ago. Its really very simple, and it provides for unlimited freedom of political speech with no corrupting influence.

Anyone can give a much money as they like to any political campaign or organization as often as they like ... BUT ... all the giving is done anonymously through a single-blind process, say run by the FEC. So you can give $10 million to Candidate X 4 times a year, but Candidate X would not be told who gave him the money once it is channeled to his account. He would just see a total of daily deposits from contributors.

I predict this would very successfully take the money out of politics.

55 posted on 08/03/2004 10:28:03 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

See posts 14 & 40.


56 posted on 08/03/2004 10:29:41 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: CSM

Would the poverty level be jiggered by area of the country? Its more expensive to live in NYC or LA than in Dubuque.


57 posted on 08/03/2004 10:31:49 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Your Nightmare

First off you have NEVER shot anything out of the water to my recollection and secondly why is it wrong to describe someones purchase of a $2.00 gallon of milk $1.54 for milk and $.46 Tax as a 23% tax when that is EXACTLY what it is?


58 posted on 08/03/2004 10:32:59 AM PDT by Bigun (IRSsucks@getridof it.com)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

How do you figure that? That would allow the Soro's and hollywood elites give more and without anyone knowing they are doing it. How would you know that Quinten Tarantino (or whomever) is not donating millions to Kerry so you could not choose to boycot his films?


59 posted on 08/03/2004 10:35:07 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

Correction:

How do you figure that? That would allow the Soro's and hollywood elites give more and without anyone knowing they are doing it. How would you know that Quinten Tarantino (or whomever) is donating millions to Kerry so you could not choose to boycot his films?


60 posted on 08/03/2004 10:35:38 AM PDT by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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