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MCCULLOUGH: "Vietnam Kerry" was asked to leave
The Illinois Leader ^ | August 9, 2004 | Mccollough

Posted on 08/09/2004 7:49:43 AM PDT by dano1

The image Americans were asked to believe at the Democratic Convention of a John Kerry who "defended this nation" as a soldier in Vietnam and "will defend this nation" as its Commander in Chief has hit a snag.

The soldiers he served along side of don't really believe that he did defend his country very well. And as one of his former commanding officers told my radio show on Wednesday, Kerry's chain of command was so fed up with his actions - they asked him to go home after he received his third purple heart.

Naval Officer Thomas Wright served our nation for 21 years. He also served as one of Kerry's superiors in the tough assignment of Swift Boat patrols on the southern tip of Vietnam. Lt. Wright frequently experienced trouble with Kerry.

According to Wright, Kerry frequently broke the protocol of engagement according to the swift boat commanders.

"When you're in a group [of boats on patrol], you don't open fire unless the person in charge tells you to or unless you are defending yourself from an immediate attack," said Wright. "I'd have problems because we'd be running on a river and Kerry would see something off in the distance, and he'd take a pot-shot at it, to see what happened. And that wasn't the way we were trying to run the patrols.

"We were trying to get in and find out what was going on and hopefully make contact and begin to work with some of the people that lived there," said Wright. "And you don't get to go shake their hands when you're shooting at them."

I asked Wright how Kerry would respond to the necessary correction that would follow such unilateral actions.

"Well during the mission - you just continue to issue the orders that you expect people to follow," said Wright, "and if they don't do them, you would continue to press until you got the results that you need.

"After a mission, is generally when you work out the more difficult problems. And those are done in private.

"I'd go talk to John Kerry and I'd tell him that I was unhappy with his opening fire, or pulling out of a column when he wasn't supposed to, or failing to communicate when he needed to," Wright continued. "And I'd always get an excuse. I wouldn't get a direct answer. I'd get 'I didn't hear that', or 'we thought we saw something' or 'my radio was on the other side of the boat' or 'I didn't have time.' It was always an excuse. After three of four times... I went to the division commander, told him about the problems I have been having and told him [the commander] that he needed to take steps to correct it."

That brought me to the shocker of the interview. To hear John Kerry speak about his time in Vietnam is to hear a self-personified story of heroics. Lt Wright remembers what happened after Kerry's third purple heart quite differently.

"When he got his third purple heart, that evening, and we didn't particularly care what it was for, we knew that he had three. That evening, I and two other people went in and told him that we felt that he should go home. It was something that he could do... He told us that he didn't want that, that it was his intention to serve his country, and the next morning he was gone. And we were happy and didn't worry about it."

John Kerry was barely able to endure four months on swift boat detail. Since I am sure the war on terror will endure a bit longer than that, the idea of him commanding our troops with his unsteady hand is making me... well... seasick


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: iraq; kerry; militaryrecord; swiftboatvets; thomaswright
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1 posted on 08/09/2004 7:49:44 AM PDT by dano1
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To: dano1

2 posted on 08/09/2004 7:51:33 AM PDT by EggsAckley (........."Yo" is "Oy" spelled backwards.........)
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To: EggsAckley

I will not post my Kerry poems and song parodies on this thread. I will not post my Kerry poems and song parodies on this thread. I will not post my Kerry poems and song parodies on this thread.

At least without approval


3 posted on 08/09/2004 7:53:38 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (They are where you least expect. Look around and you'll see them too.)
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To: dano1
And as one of his former commanding officers told my radio show on Wednesday, Kerry's chain of command was so fed up with his actions - they asked him to go home after he received his third purple heart.

My big question is this - The Commander had to APPROVE of Kerry's medals. If they thought so poorly of him, why didn't they file the medal requests to the circular file?

4 posted on 08/09/2004 7:53:52 AM PDT by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: dano1
"When he got his third purple heart, that evening, and we didn't particularly care what it was for, we knew that he had three. That evening, I and two other people went in and told him that we felt that he should go home. It was something that he could do... He told us that he didn't want that, that it was his intention to serve his country, and the next morning he was gone. And we were happy and didn't worry about it."

Could this be part of the motivation for Kerry to turn against the war in Veitnam? He was asked to leave and resented the military ever since? He could not stomach not being able to shoot his guns when he felt like it - and they ahve the nerve to say Bush is a cowboy!

5 posted on 08/09/2004 7:55:15 AM PDT by doc30
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Well, I approve, if that matters........

~</;o)


6 posted on 08/09/2004 7:55:23 AM PDT by EggsAckley (........."Yo" is "Oy" spelled backwards.........)
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To: dano1

devastating!!
hugh hewitt's point about lieing on the senate floor about christ of 68 is also pretty bad.
I was afraid this story didn't have legs, but thankfully i was wrong.
Maybe there will be a chorus to have qerry release ALL of his military records- especially the fitness reports.


7 posted on 08/09/2004 7:55:30 AM PDT by genghis
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To: EggsAckley

pay back is a bitch, ain't it John?


8 posted on 08/09/2004 7:55:58 AM PDT by Chuzzlewit (music, music and more music)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Awwww. Come on. How can you deprive us? Give.


9 posted on 08/09/2004 7:57:27 AM PDT by hobson
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To: 2banana
My big question is this - The Commander had to APPROVE of Kerry's medals. If they thought so poorly of him, why didn't they file the medal requests to the circular file?

His CO did refuse kerry's first Purple Heart request. He only learned later that kerry had received it quite some time afterward.

One officer in his chain of command (may have been the same one) relied on kerry's report of an engagement for his Silver Star award. That officer has stated that, had he known the truth of the actions involved, he wouldn't have approved the award.

10 posted on 08/09/2004 8:00:50 AM PDT by Bob
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To: 2banana

I think the commander already knew about the 3rd medal option. It sounds as though they got it to him as quick as they could to get him out of there.


11 posted on 08/09/2004 8:06:29 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: dano1

I have a bit of a problem with this.

It would seem the correct thing to do would be to deny underserved Purple Hearts and to reassign Lt. Kerry to duty that would not endanger patrols.

There was a need for every person in Vietnam. I'm sure someone could have found something for Kerry.

Some of these stories from former vets are compelling but the damning attribute of Kerry's story is his own promotion of it. A true hero never huffs and puffs about his service.

The simple truth is that Kerry and his people realize that Americans want especially right now a reliable and competent Commander-in-Chief. The only way to instill confidence in that regard is to play the military angle.

Perhaps more disgusting than Kerry's deceitful pro military advertising is Hillary Clinton's involvement in the Armed Services Committee.


12 posted on 08/09/2004 8:06:34 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: Bob

People serving in the military who come from "priveleged" backgrounds (such as children of Congressmen, diplomats, etc) receive a special designation. So, every commander knows this person has political influence. Are you surprised that some commander will sign-off on a medal even if they think it is BS?


13 posted on 08/09/2004 8:12:24 AM PDT by whitedog57
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To: Hostage

Kerry was at one time transferred and somehow ended up in Cambodia. He stated that it was because Nixon had indicated there was no hostile enemies in Cambodia. I may be telling the story wrong but the fact was on the date of this incident, Nixon was not in office. I'll find the story unless someone beats me to it.


14 posted on 08/09/2004 8:13:00 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: dano1

Anybody think the "bandaid brothers" guys that are on stage with sKerry might be getting a little squeamish yet? Wouldn't that be fun, when a few or all of them, abandon sKerry's ship? They have got to be feeling the heat and they may be learning things about ol Jean that they didn't know before.


15 posted on 08/09/2004 8:16:14 AM PDT by BillyCrockett
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To: tobyhill

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1185354/posts


16 posted on 08/09/2004 8:17:50 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: genghis
This Kerry guy is something else, I just saw some headlines on a web site where Kerry said he was driving in a friends contivertable on th Parkway when the plane hit the Pentagon and he pulled over in shock as did other people. Yesterday I read somewhere that he just walked into Dashels(?) office for a leadership meeting as the 2nd plane hit the towers and they were there in shock and all of a sudden the plane plunged into the Pentagon behind them. Gee, I wonder which it is, where was he, I believe he is still in shock.
17 posted on 08/09/2004 8:20:12 AM PDT by depenzz
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To: dano1
Naval Officer Thomas Wright served our nation for 21 years. He also served as one of Kerry's superiors in the tough assignment of Swift Boat patrols on the southern tip of Vietnam. Lt. Wright frequently experienced trouble with Kerry.

Kerry's a national embarrassment.
Another lying politician and this time he has a bottom feeding trial lawyer as a side kick. How low has this country fallen?

18 posted on 08/09/2004 8:20:42 AM PDT by concerned about politics ( Liberals are still stuck at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy)
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To: whitedog57
People serving in the military who come from "priveleged" backgrounds (such as children of Congressmen, diplomats, etc) receive a special designation. So, every commander knows this person has political influence. Are you surprised that some commander will sign-off on a medal even if they think it is BS?

I'm not the least bit surprised. That's probably how he got his first PH -- after his CO turned him down, someone higher up the chain of command rubber-stamped it for him.

Google for the words "kerry", "kennedy", and "yacht" to see how special he was. An MSNBC article near the top of the search results has a picture of him sailing with John Kennedy. This was during the summer before he went to college. He was a full-time Teddy campaign volunteer and dated some relative of Jackie Kennedy that same summer.

MAJOR political influence.

19 posted on 08/09/2004 8:21:21 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Bob
You asked: The Commander had to APPROVE of Kerry's medals. If they thought so poorly of him, why didn't they file the medal requests to the circular file?

Although we haven't had a chance to read the book yet, the impression I'm getting is that Kerry's comrades basically said "give him the damn purple hearts and get him the HELL out of here..." Whatever it takes.

One thing that's overlooked is that Kerry's father was some sort of a "diplomat," as told to us in the Spielberg convention bio film... could it be that JFKerry was considered a VIP and that the chain of command didn't want to mess with a VIP and all the attendant political issues? In other words, maybe it was easier to give the brat what he wanted and send him home, because he was dangerous!

20 posted on 08/09/2004 8:21:50 AM PDT by Sally
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To: tobyhill
Kerry was at one time transferred and somehow ended up in Cambodia.

Kerry says he was in Cambodia in Christmas of 1968. Do you believe him?

Some of the people who were with him say that they were 50+ miles from Cambodia, not in it.

I think Kerry made up the entire "Christmas in Cambodia" story, to suit his own political ambitions. It is a fairy tale, thru and thru.

21 posted on 08/09/2004 8:21:53 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Of course I don't believe him. Nixon hadn't even been sworn in as President and Kerry blamed him for it.


22 posted on 08/09/2004 8:24:28 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: depenzz
I just saw some headlines on a web site where Kerry said he was driving in a friends contivertable on th Parkway when the plane hit the Pentagon

Please check your browser cache to see if you can recover that site address. The 'official' story (Larry King interview?) is that he was in the Capitol. If he's quoted saying otherwise, this could get interesting.

23 posted on 08/09/2004 8:25:17 AM PDT by Bob
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To: 2banana
My big question is this - The Commander had to APPROVE of Kerry's medals. If they thought so poorly of him, why didn't they file the medal requests to the circular file?

Kerry applied for a few of his own, and somehow the paper work wasn't checked.
Apparently, the last one was to make it 3 so they could get rid of him.

24 posted on 08/09/2004 8:27:27 AM PDT by concerned about politics ( Liberals are still stuck at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy)
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To: dano1

The charges must be having some effect because the best the Kerry campaign and their liberal press allies can come up with is, "Dirty Politics".


25 posted on 08/09/2004 8:28:45 AM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: dano1
He was out of the theater but what happened to the rest of the time he was bound to serve?

Seems the military was so glad to be rid of him they allowed the rest of his commitment to go unfulfilled.

26 posted on 08/09/2004 8:29:20 AM PDT by OldFriend (WAR IS THE REMEDY OUR ENEMIES HAVE CHOSEN)
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To: Sally
One thing that's overlooked is that Kerry's father was some sort of a "diplomat,"...

Probably more significant is his association with the Kennedys. I don't know that his father was all that high up as a diplomat. The Kennedys, on the other hand, were royalty.

27 posted on 08/09/2004 8:29:53 AM PDT by Bob
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To: 2banana
Remember he was trading on his so called relationship with the Kennedy family.

Anyone who has ever served knows what a powerful tool that is for any soldier.

28 posted on 08/09/2004 8:30:24 AM PDT by OldFriend (WAR IS THE REMEDY OUR ENEMIES HAVE CHOSEN)
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To: dano1

"Hey, Hey, J eFing K... How many medals did you win today!"

Just felt like chanting....

Book him, Dano!


29 posted on 08/09/2004 8:34:14 AM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Texas, Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: genghis

I have a question.

How do you pronounce your name? Starting with a hard "G" or like a "J"?


30 posted on 08/09/2004 8:35:04 AM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: dano1
He told us that he didn't want that, that it was his intention to serve his country, and the next morning he was gone.

Sure sounds like the "hero" put up quite a fight to stay!! LOL! I bet he was already packed!

Anyone hear Imus b!tching this morning about how the Kerry/Edwards Raw Deal Express blew through his ranch for cancer kids without stopping or even slowing? Imus said they were having a bonfire of the Kerry/Edwards signs the little cancer stricken kids make!! I almost drove off the road! LOL!

Now Imus has a taste of how Democrats treat those that they have in their back pocket (like blacks and unions)!!

31 posted on 08/09/2004 8:40:00 AM PDT by SpinyNorman (The (Swiftboat Veterans and Vietnam Veterans for) Truth will set you free!!)
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To: EggsAckley
OK. I get accused of hijacking threads some days. Here are the links that way it doesn't take up so much room.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1163131/posts?page=11608#11608

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1185436/posts?page=82#82

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1185436/posts?page=87#87
32 posted on 08/09/2004 8:45:07 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (They are where you least expect. Look around and you'll see them too.)
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To: hobson

Posted links.


33 posted on 08/09/2004 8:45:31 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (They are where you least expect. Look around and you'll see them too.)
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To: Bob
His CO did refuse kerry's first Purple Heart request. He only learned later that kerry had received it quite some time afterward. Exactly. As a matter of fact, he received it after he returned to the States from what I understand.
34 posted on 08/09/2004 8:48:02 AM PDT by no dems (Ignorance is "bliss"; and every Democrat I know is "bliss-tered".)
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To: BillyCrockett
Anybody think the "band-aid brothers" guys that are on stage with Kerry might be getting a little squeamish yet?

I read somewhere today that some of those guys only served with Kerry for about five weeks, and some only for a few days. I think it was in the Novak piece.

Novak made another very good point, i.e. that Kerry needs to respond to these allegations rather than attack the messengers. As was pointed out, one of these Swift Boat Vets is a retired Admiral and as a group they have an incredibly distinguished record. They deserve to be treated seriously.

35 posted on 08/09/2004 8:51:21 AM PDT by dano1
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To: dano1
I work with someone who is a bit of a loose cannon. The rules and procedures were made for everyone but them. I can relate as I am sure the CO's were more than happy to get John boy back home and away from them.

Red

36 posted on 08/09/2004 8:55:18 AM PDT by Conservative4Ever (I love the 1st Amendment...I can call Clinton an idiot.)
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To: SpinyNorman

Bo Dietl was hysterical on Imus. He kept asking "were the little children crying?". The guys were all laughing and the little children crying kept being talked about. I still say Imus is a mole for us.


37 posted on 08/09/2004 9:06:35 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: dano1

You know, we now have two competing alternative stories of sKerry's Vietnam service. One is that he sea lawyered the system to win an early out of combat that he never wanted (he was volunteering to command a water taxi, but the USN changed the mission of the SWIFT boats right after he volunteered) by arranging to receive Purple Hearts for the slightest injuries (two of which were likely ineligible). The other is that sKerry was so incompetent that he was asked to leave after he got his third PH. How can these two stories be reconciled?


38 posted on 08/09/2004 9:13:13 AM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
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To: doc30

"motivation for Kerry to turn against the war in Veitnam"

That's what I'm thinking. He couldn't be a "war hero" so he would be an "anti-war hero". Kerry is more scary than I thought.


39 posted on 08/09/2004 9:31:28 AM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: America is the Greatest Nation on the Face of the Earth)
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To: Bob

Unfortunately it wasn't Kerry in that story.

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/bobby/2003/bobby_0908.shtml


40 posted on 08/09/2004 9:32:38 AM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: BushisTheMan
Unfortunately it wasn't Kerry in that story.

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that story.

What can I say? I'll admit it -- of course I was hoping for a kerry self-contradiction. :=)

41 posted on 08/09/2004 10:06:45 AM PDT by Bob
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To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
¨How can these two stories be reconciled?¨

By Kerry telling us what happened.

If he wants to lead the country he has to be able to communicate.

42 posted on 08/09/2004 10:07:38 AM PDT by dano1
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To: CyberAnt
That's what I'm thinking. He couldn't be a "war hero" so he would be an "anti-war hero". Kerry is more scary than I thought.

I've seen threads here on FR with stories indicating that he was anti-war before he even went over there. I'll see if I can find a link.

43 posted on 08/09/2004 10:08:52 AM PDT by Bob
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To: tobyhill

I don't believe hin either but I think his retort would be that Nixon was President-Elect and was surely making comments about Vietnam and Cambodia through the press.

If Kerry claimed or is claiming that Nixon ordered the Cambodia trip in December 1968, then he's been caught red-handed in a lie.


44 posted on 08/09/2004 10:09:36 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: tobyhill

See post # 44.


45 posted on 08/09/2004 10:11:25 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: dano1
Kerry was an arrogant Yalie, skull and bones too, and no way was he going to listen up and obey his commanders. So his commanders wanted him up and out. His peers also had problems with his free lancer attitude and were happy he was gone. Loose cannons endanger all.

The bitter Yalie then went on to stab his comrades in the back with his anti war antics.
46 posted on 08/09/2004 10:12:47 AM PDT by dennisw (Once is Happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. The third time is Enemy action. - Ian Fleming)
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To: Hostage

In an earlier statement from ? he described the incident as being from the President then later Nixon. It could be a mistake on someones part but Kerry always seems to be correcting his or someones error but the media seems to accept it on face value.


47 posted on 08/09/2004 10:17:26 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

You have my permission to post Kerry parodies:


I am the very model of a presidential candidate,
From character to senator I know what to assassinate.
I lobby for the victims of injustice and adversity,
And care for those unfortunates who lack my great diversity.
I've bedded movie starlets and I've yachted with the Kennedys,
I've copied their initials and I've shared in their affinities.
And in the field of foreign wars my service is distinguishèd,
Or will be just as soon as all the rumors are extinguishèd.

Or will be just as soon as all the rumors are extinguishèd.
Or will be just as soon as all the rumors are extinguishèd.
Or will be just as soon as all the rumors are extinguishèd.


I'm boarding schooled and finishèd in snowy neutral Switzerland,
My haircuts and my super facials set me back at least a grand.
My visage in the mirror never ceases me to fascinate;
I am the very model of a presidential candidate.

His visage in the mirror never ceases him to fascinate;
He is the very model of a presidential candidate.


I married very well and proper, and I married kind of twice,
The first wife, she had tons of money, and they say the kids are nice.
This was, advancing my career, anulled, but she remains a friend,
My second wife is richer still, and happily sustains a trend.
Two marriages can easily as two conflicting thoughts be hatched.
I'm married to ideas whenever they're to billionaires attached.
The nuances of laws and things are strewn among my haws and hems;
I'm so cerebral sauve and subtle, like Prince Hamlet on the Thames.

He's so cerebral sauve and subtle, like Prince Hamlet on the Thames.
He's so cerebral sauve and subtle, like Prince Hamlet on the Thames.
He's so cerebral sauve and subtle, like Prince Hamlet on the Thames.


Irreconcilable intentions haunt my inconsistent stands,
And ghosts fly out of Arkansas, opposing me and my commands.
In matters war and peaceful I will always spin and vacillate.
I am the very model of a presidential candidate.

In matters war and peaceful he will always spin and vacillate.
He is the very model of a presidential candidate.


If I become the president our kind could safely then inhale,
Unless a vast conspiracy releases the right wing on bail,
Demands a free and fair election in a horrid foreign state,
Or tries to overthrow a brutal and oppressive potentate,
Humiliates or disrespects a terr'ist or a tyrant lord,
Or fails to fly the white surrender flag before the mouse that roared;
I would this mad cabal remand and would severely castigate,
Unless to the U.N. or my successor I could delegate.

Unless to the U.N. or his successor he could delegate.
Unless to the U.N. or his successor he could delegate.
Unless to the U.N. or his successor he could delegate.


I never would betray you and I never would equivocate.
I'm patriotic to a fault and never would renunciate;
My brain, when I am making big decisions, it can herniate.
I am the very model of a presidential candidate;

His brain, when he is making big decisions, it can herniate.
He is the very model of a presidential candidate.




48 posted on 08/09/2004 10:22:46 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington

Good points. He may have been shrewd enough to push for three frivolous based PHs and in so doing he frustrated his fellows.

The angle that he had people in important places apply pressure, his commanding officer threw in the towel and tossed him out of the unit, seems more plausible.

It is interesting that the Kennedy's Joe Jr. and John were pressured by their father and their own rivalry to get war medals, to become war heros. Kerry having been exposed to the Kennedy clan, must have at some point heard from others of the exploits of the war hero Kennedy. We can speculate that he also heard that alot of the hero story was 'a good show' and a boost to office seekers. So he may have learned to aspire to hero status.

Like I've said previously, his lack of backup for his medals is not the issue, it his self-promotion as a hero that is suspect. No hero openly pats themselves on the back for their courage.


49 posted on 08/09/2004 10:24:20 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: tobyhill
You are right, Nixon would not have been able to order anything at this time. Incidentally, what would the President Nixon (even if the timing was right) be conversing with little old Kerry for anyway. Who in the hell does Kerry think we are - fools.

Imagine the conversation: Pres Nixon grabs the phone. Call for a direct line to hero Kerry. "Hey, guy, take a trip into Cambodia and say hi to the folks for me"
50 posted on 08/09/2004 10:27:42 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!!)
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