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Suggested Swift Boat Vet Talking Points - Please Contribute!
FR | 8-10-04 | Bob J

Posted on 08/10/2004 10:02:13 AM PDT by Bob J

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To: hobbes1

THIS IS THE CORE ARGUEMENT!!!
ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT!!!

He repeated this SEARED story in 1986, while a Senator. He did his best to impune the USA, the office of the Presidency.
THis man shouldn't even be allowed to vote since he hates this country so much!

He can't use the rediculous reason that in '71 when he testified before Congress that he was youthful & prone to lying or exaggerating. Which is so foolish, he was in his late 20s and I thought his Nam experience was so valuable at 'maturing' him to become a leader.


51 posted on 08/10/2004 11:03:12 AM PDT by GivemeaBREAK!
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To: Bob J

Re: The funding.
Isn't it odd that comparisions of Bush to Hitler get a pass, but when we dispute, it is seen as a bad thing?

Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth has a long way to go before they even match the donations form Peter Lewis and George Soros to MoveOn.org.

Re: Kerry's claims
They fought and bled in Vietnam much longer than John Kerry did. They have as much right to present their case as Senator Kerry does.


52 posted on 08/10/2004 11:03:20 AM PDT by hchutch (I only eat dolphin-safe veal.)
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To: ChadGore

A good analogy is that the swifties were a lot like pilots in the same squadron. That seems to be fairly concise and correct.


53 posted on 08/10/2004 11:03:22 AM PDT by LOC1
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To: april15Bendovr

Archive stuff on Kerry is STILL mysteriously disappearing. They've managed to remove the name of the Boston Globe reporter from the adulatory DNC paid books about Kerry, for example; anything the Dems don't like just simply vanishes.


54 posted on 08/10/2004 11:05:12 AM PDT by livius
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To: Rabid Dog

Why didn't the DNC denounce and distance itself from the NAACP ads during the last election, which implied that Bush, as the governor of Texas, was responsible for the deaths of black people?


55 posted on 08/10/2004 11:05:39 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: GivemeaBREAK!

Exactly. Undercuts ANY CREDIBILITY he may have, protects the swifties,and allows the Administration to Attack him without attacking his war record per se.


Puts all the Heat on Frenchy.


56 posted on 08/10/2004 11:05:59 AM PDT by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: HenryLeeII
The notion that being "half a football field" away from Kerry's boat, and saying they couldn't have known what was going on, is stupid.

You mean, when Kerry crawls on his stomach with his shotgun, he can't see the deer 50 yards away?

57 posted on 08/10/2004 11:08:56 AM PDT by talleyman (John Kerry: The Manurian Candidate)
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To: Bob J

In answer to the claim, "they didn't serve on the same boat as him."

"Do fighter pilots on an aircraft carrier have to fly in the same plane together before you can say they worked closely with one another and knew each other?"


58 posted on 08/10/2004 11:13:53 AM PDT by RobRoy (You only "know" what you experience. Everything else is mere belief.)
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To: GivemeaBREAK!

.

NEVER FORGET


JOHN KERRY was out to brand the USA as an intrnational war criminal for its fighting for Freedom in Vietnam, by first publically labeling those American Soldiers doing the fighting there as war criminals. Just like HO CHI MINH's Hanoi Radio was publically doing.

See: JOHN KERRY = Enemy of Vietnam Vets
http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320


Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer / Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set2.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set3.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm (Photos)

'MODERN DAY HEROES' - Contributing Author
http://www.ModernDayHeroes.com/aloha


NEVER FORGET

.


59 posted on 08/10/2004 11:15:31 AM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE
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To: hobbes1

You nailed it and Bush needs to just keep hammering on this.

The Swifties should divert ALL their criticism to this issue alone and state that it shows how this man will lie and that further proves he'd lie about his combat action & records.

A side note. The crewmembers supporting Kerry are more than likely looking at it as winning the lotto.

How many people can say that they know the President personally and would probably be invited to the WH at sometime. This is their BIG chance. Human nature in a way, forget the past sins and problems you had with the guy.


60 posted on 08/10/2004 11:16:35 AM PDT by GivemeaBREAK!
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To: talleyman

I like this one;

"In a forest surrounded by deep underbrush, Kerry can shoot a deer at 100 yards, but claims decorated military heroes can't see his boat on open water from less than 50."


61 posted on 08/10/2004 11:18:59 AM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: All

interesting 4 page story supposedly from Kerry's diary about the Rassman day...Thurlow reportedly got a bronze star also..

http://www.thehistorynet.com/ah/blkerryinvietnam/index.html


62 posted on 08/10/2004 11:20:09 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: ALOHA RONNIE

.

NEVER FORGET


JOHN KERRY came back from Vietnam to call us American Soldiers fighting for the Freedom of Ohters there...


...Rapists and Terrorists. Whereas...


MEL GIBSON came back from filming our real Vietnam War Story titled...


.."WE WERE SOLDIERS"..

...deeply inspired to finally make his ultimate Story of Love and Sacrifice titled...


.."The PASSION of the Christ"


I wonder WHO got our Vietnam War Story of Love and Sacrifice right..?

See: http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39081


NEVER FORGET

.


63 posted on 08/10/2004 11:24:00 AM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE
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To: rolling_stone
I believe the january reports were for combat that Kerry was not involved in, they got called on it...

Yes, I read that as well (J.G. Burkett of Stolen Valor accused Kerry). So they just deep-sixed the document and pretend it never existed? If Kerry was not involved in any of the combats, I guess there is nothing to hide, except his false claims to have fought battles that he didn't.

64 posted on 08/10/2004 11:27:23 AM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: Bob J
IF vets that never served on Kerry's boat can’t comment on Kerry service the 4 mo. in his small area he was Vietnam? (even thought they were in the boat next to him, on shore next to him, camped next to him)

Then how could Kerry in his antiwar activaties comment on and make charges of atrocity before the U.S. Senate about others in there years of service all over Vietnam because they "never served on Kerry's boat" so how could Kerry know

If they are lying about Kerry because they weren’t on Kerry's boat

Then Kerry was lying for years about ever other Vietnam Vet that did not serve in Kerry boat

You can’t say that because you weren’t in my boat you can'n know or say any thin about me … but I can say anything about even other Vietnam Vet even thought they weren’t in your boat

EVERY “LYING DIRTBAG” comment made about the Swifties by Kerry camp based on “they didn’t serve in my boat”... Must BY LOGIC be reflected a ten thousand fold on Kerry and his camp because all the other Vietnam Vet Kerry degraded for years “didn’t serve in his boat”

65 posted on 08/10/2004 11:29:04 AM PDT by tophat9000
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To: livius
They also read from transcripts of Kerry's testimony before Congress when he got back and make all those false claims.

The enemy used Kerry's words to brainwash POW's.

The Communists sincerely believe that with out Kerry on their side the US and South Viet Nam would have won.
66 posted on 08/10/2004 11:33:19 AM PDT by Syncro
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To: Bob J
Post Your Girlie Man Kerry Photos Here
67 posted on 08/10/2004 11:33:42 AM PDT by OldCorps
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To: rolling_stone
Hmmmm....Here's a curious little anecdote

Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it. A shrapnel wound in his left arm gave Kerry pain for years. Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds

I was unaware of Kerry missing anytime....?

68 posted on 08/10/2004 11:38:19 AM PDT by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: Bob J
Here is the one I like. Its from today's Wall Street Journal reader response.



Let's See Kerry's Service Records
John Russell - Washington

Mr. Rassmann can help Sen. Kerry out of this mess by urging his hero to fill out a standard Form 180 and authorize the Defense Department to release all of Mr. Kerry's military records from A to Z.

If Mr. Rassmann and the ranks of Kerry apologists believe the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have lied, release the records and prove them wrong.

The saying "put up or shut up" applies here. Over 250 Swift Boat veterans have stepped forward to denounce John Kerry. They have nothing to gain by such actions.

I maintain that if the book "Unfit For Command" were aimed at Swift Boat Commander George W. Bush, the veterans coming forward to tell their story would be hailed as "real American heroes" and would be the toast of the TV talk shows.

I believe the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Their charges deserve to be examined in detail.
69 posted on 08/10/2004 11:43:56 AM PDT by Sprite518
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To: anglian

A google search brings up the Rassmann spelling.


70 posted on 08/10/2004 11:44:48 AM PDT by SisBoombah
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To: Bob J; talleyman
Excellent brainstorming.

You mean, when Kerry crawls on his stomach with his shotgun, he can't see the deer 50 yards away?

"In a forest surrounded by deep underbrush, Kerry can shoot a deer at 100 yards, but claims decorated military heroes can't see his boat on open water from less than 50."

71 posted on 08/10/2004 11:45:33 AM PDT by Syncro
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To: tophat9000
I like that one;

"Kerry claims his fellow Swift boat officers are being dishonerable by commenting on events personally witnessed while fighting alongside Kerry on the rivers of VietNam, but Kerry is a hero for accusing thousands of US Soldiers he never served with of murder and genocide from a comfortable Senate chair eight thousand miles away."

72 posted on 08/10/2004 11:46:32 AM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: talleyman
You mean, when Kerry crawls on his stomach with his shotgun, he can't see the deer 50 yards away?

Exactly. And when he's fishing, he only catches fish that are in his boat!

73 posted on 08/10/2004 11:46:46 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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To: LOC1

"A good analogy is that the swifties were a lot like pilots in the same squadron. That seems to be fairly concise and correct."

Kerry wasn't in the same units as those he claimed committed war crimes. It didn't stop him from slandering the entire US military.


74 posted on 08/10/2004 11:48:07 AM PDT by BadAndy (Specializing in unnecessarily harsh comments.)
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To: Bob J
I personally think the Swift Boat Vets have made a huge mistake. By framing the arguement the way they have, to a lot of people, they just look like political hacks.

They need to focus on what Kerry said after returning from Vietnam (Marines cut off heads, etc). These are the men that served with and along side of Kerry. Voters need to understand that when Kerry said that he witnessed Marines randomly killing people, commiting war crimes etc. that these are men who he served with and esentually these are the men that he was accusing.

By making the focus about Kerry lieing about he own service, the response is easy for the Kerry camp, they can just question the creditibily of the accusers (in this case the swift boat veterans) and talk about how outraged the Kerry camp is, this is just political...Bush should denounce blah...blah...blah...blah

The Swift boat Vets have failed to articulate the fact that Kerry lied about THEM, about the men who he served along side of. They need to turn the tables by making Kerry the accuser, the man who accused THEM of killing women and children. This makes them sympathetic to the public, the press has ignored them for 30 years and only now is the press allowing them to respond to Kerry's lies. So long as they do that Kerry is forced to choose between two undesirable responses:

a. Kerry can dig up old wounds and reassert that he saw these things happen in Vietnam. (If he does this he's now hippy, dope smoking, peace-loving Kerry and not Swift Boat captain hero, Lt. Rambo Kerry)

b. Kerry can waffle about it and say that he never say these things happen, he just heard about them. Now he's waffler, lier Kerry.
75 posted on 08/10/2004 11:52:32 AM PDT by Honcho
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To: Bob J

Just Ask Kerry to sign the form 180 and release his full military record. Might shed some light on who is telling the truth.


76 posted on 08/10/2004 11:53:31 AM PDT by snooker
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To: Bob J
If I were one of the Swift Boat Vets, I'd say:

Kerry used our picture without our permission, implying consent by association in his: "Band of Brothers". We decline to give that consent.

77 posted on 08/10/2004 11:55:30 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: tioga
The election process, including the Swift Boat ads, is a vetting process for the presidency of the U.S. Americans have a right to speak, be heard and then to vote. Carry on.
Undeniable.

That said, their campaign is quixiotic because the PR establishment is dead set against their position (no need for tin foil, just discussing the facts).

Bush/Rove have to crack this nut differently. Not by questioning Kerry's medals and thereby hyping their significance, but by dramatizing just how many men have more time in theater and greater claim to have their valor taken seriously.

Even if there are gaping holes in Kerry's story, that will not damage his campaign like an understanding of the essential triviality of his entire campaign would. The truth is that he is running as the only American war hero - he has trashed all other Vietnam vets except as they support him, and he has never accorded any particular respect to any other vet or active duty military either. And he can't, because he is runnng for president on his military record and his record if taken at face value is actually mediocre.

The word "snob" is derived from an abbreviation denoting a student not entitled to a title of nobility, remarkable in an institution where almost all others did have them. Such kids tended to put on airs to compensate. John Kerry is putting on airs of entitlement to respect on the basis of a mediocre record of valor. In that position he cannot freely accord credit even to a Medal of Honor winner - and he perforce must positively disdain a mere weekend warrior - even a fighter pilot like President Bush.

All Rove has to do is maneuver Kerry into a position to where he acts natural on live nationwide TV, and the election is won. Because John Kerry is a snob.


78 posted on 08/10/2004 11:57:11 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters but PR.)
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To: Bob J

While Clinton's lies about sex went to his fitness as a husband, Kerry has lied about being in Cambodia (e.g, on Christmas Eve with his swift boat and on a CIA secret mission) in wartime. Kerry's lies go to his fitness to be Commander-in-Chief in wartime.


79 posted on 08/10/2004 12:05:29 PM PDT by Pharlap
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To: Mike Darancette
The doctor who stated that Kerry did not deserve the purple heart for his wound should clarify why the report (being waved around by DNC operatives) was signed by someone else (HM-1 Corpsman).

This was probably standard peocedure for minor Boo-Boos.

LEWIS LETSON EXPLAINS KERRY'S WOUND

From Jim Geraghty's "Kerry Spot":

Lewis Letson, who discusses Kerry’s wound in the Swift Boat Vets’ ad, is appearing on “”NRANews.com with me.

“I am the doctor [who treated Kerry],” he said. “Let me explain that. My critics are pointing to the [signature on the medical record], J.C. Carreon. If they look it carefully a scribble after the words, saying, “HM1.” HM1 is a hospital man first class. Jesus C. Carreon was one of my medics at that naval base. He was a top-notch fella. Real prince of a fella.”

“Unfortunately, my friend Carreon died about 1992. He’s not around to back this up,” he said.

“Kerry might have thought my name was J.C. Carreon. I was the only medical officer at that base. September 68 to Sept. 1969. I can verify that with commanding officer.”

“I didn’t want to be a public figure. This has its downside, don’t have any desire to be notorious. This has some ill effects on an individual and my family. I had TV crew on my front lawn in the last hour, they just appeared at my house and rang my doorbell.”

[Posted 08/06 03:33 PM]

MORE LETSON

More from Letson: “It’s unfortunate that it’s come to a lot of name calling. I’ve been called a Republican shill. I’ll stand by what I have said. They can call me what they want. I’ll stack my record of integrity against theirs anytime.”

Having concluded the interview, one gets the feeling that the Kerry campaign better have a better defense than, "he's not Kerry's doctor, because didn't sign the report, another guy did." It shouldn't be hard to verify that Letson was the doctor in that location at that time.

[Posted 08/06 03:40 PM]

80 posted on 08/10/2004 12:08:02 PM PDT by RottiBiz (Help end Freepathons -- become a Monthly Donor.)
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To: GivemeaBREAK!

There is no explanation for Kerry's lying about being in Cambodia. This type of false self-promotion has no place in the White House, especially in wartime.


81 posted on 08/10/2004 12:08:43 PM PDT by Pharlap
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To: Bob J
Haven't read the entire thread, but just in case:

Kerry was a war hero, before he was a war criminal (by his own Congressional testimony), before he was a war hero.

82 posted on 08/10/2004 12:12:27 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Bob J
i'm trying to find an electronic copy of Form-180 to send him
83 posted on 08/10/2004 12:27:55 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: Spok
When Kerry testified before Congress in 1971, he alleged war crimes and confessed to participation. How can Kerry be a hero if he committed war crimes? Which Kerry story is true? Why won't the media ask him to elaborate? There's more evidence that he was a war criminal than there is that Bush went AWOL. Why isn't that news?

This the issue that I and fellow veterans ask. I'm asking for a real journalist in the main stream media to do some investigative reporting; someone who cares about truth and the guts to report it.

84 posted on 08/10/2004 12:29:00 PM PDT by afnamvet (USAF Tuy Hoa AFB RVN 68-69 NOT FONDA KERRY!)
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To: Bob J
Think I read somewhere, but can't seem to find it.

"No one ever heard of someone receiving a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and 3 Purple Hearts within only 4 months in country".

Also, at the time Kerry volunteered for Swift Boat duty, it was considered fairly safe as they only patrolled the coastal waters. The mission was changed (Operation ?)to the more dangerous inland waterways AFTER Kerry became a Swifty.

Who gets a Silver Star for shooting one fleeing injured enemy?

85 posted on 08/10/2004 12:29:14 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Steven W.
a) do you have to be a passenger in a car wreck to be a witness to a traffic accident?...in fact, might you not have a better overall view of what happened during the accident from outside the car?.......
86 posted on 08/10/2004 12:39:04 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: A Navy Vet
Plus, I don't think there is any evidence, other than Kerry's own statements, about the killing. Previously, Kerry stated others saw him shoot and kill the VC, but they all have claimed Kerry chased him behind a hooch and didn't see the deed done. For all we know the VC might have attempted to surrender.

The story is the VC fired an RPG, they shot up his position with 50 caliber, they VC starting fleeing and either he was shot then or was already injured. I've seen no evidence the VC had any more grenades or was preparing to fire again.

What are the military rules for an encounter like this? If he is injured and offering no resistance, is Kerry obligated to capture him and return him as a prisoner?

87 posted on 08/10/2004 12:39:31 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: Bob J

Somewhere I read (maybe on the Swifties forum) that the top North Viet Namese commander, in his memoirs, had been considering a truce '68 - '70 because he was losing every major battle. Watching what was happening in the USA with the public opinion and groups like VVAW gave him the idea he would eventually win and continued to fight at the cost of more Americans. I'll see if I can find it.


88 posted on 08/10/2004 12:47:28 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Bob J
" What are the military rules for an encounter like this? If he is injured and offering no resistance, is Kerry obligated to capture him and return him as a prisoner?"

Not being a grunt or being in Nam, I wouldn't know the specific ROE (rules of engagement)...other than it's always been okay to kill retreating enemy. So I have no problem if Kerry shot him the back as claimed, nor if he were a teenager, so were ours. Until the enemy lays down there weapons and throw their hands up, they're fair game.

89 posted on 08/10/2004 1:00:38 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Bob J

BTTT


90 posted on 08/10/2004 1:04:28 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: Bob J
For photos of the close proximity of these Swift Boats in the canals, go to Swift Boat Pics
91 posted on 08/10/2004 1:09:12 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Bob J
Here are more talking points: Answering Democrat Attacks
92 posted on 08/10/2004 1:20:54 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: A Navy Vet
The following quotes from the book "Following Ho Chi Minh: Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel" written by Bui Tin, are enlightening:

On the American Tet 1968 military victory:

"Our losses were staggering and a complete surprise. Giap later told me that Tet had been a military defeat, though we had gained the planned political advantages when Johnson agreed to negotiate and did not run for reelection.

The second and third waves in May and September were, in retrospect, mistakes. Our forces in the South were nearly wiped out by all the fighting in 1968. It took us until 1971 to reestablish our presence but we had to use North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. If the American forces had not begun to withdraw under Nixon in 1969, they could have punished us severely. We suffered badly in 1969 and 1970 as it was."

And on strategy:

"If Johnson had granted Westmoreland's requests to enter Laos and block the Ho Chi Minh trail, Hanoi could not have won the war.... it was the only way to bring sufficient military power to bear on the fighting in the South. Building and maintaining the trail was a huge effort involving tens of thousands of soldiers, drivers, repair teams, medical stations, communication units .... our operations were never compromised by attacks on the trail.

At times, accurate B-52 strikes would cause real damage, but we put so much in at the top of the trail that enough men and weapons to prolong the war always came out the bottom .... if all the bombing had been concentrated at one time, it would have hurt our efforts. But the bombing was expanded in slow stages under Johnson and it didn't worry us. We had plenty of time to prepare alternative routes and facilities. We always had stockpiles of rice ready to feed the people for months if a harvest was damaged. The Soviets bought rice from Thailand for us."

And the left:

"Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement.

Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and would struggle along with us .... those people represented the conscience of America .... part of it's war-making capability, and we turning that power in our favor."

http://www.vwam.com/vets/buitin.html

93 posted on 08/10/2004 1:22:04 PM PDT by RottiBiz (Help end Freepathons -- become a Monthly Donor.)
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To: A Navy Vet; Bob J

Can we get someone to post the photos provided in my post #91? I don't have a host anymore.


94 posted on 08/10/2004 1:22:28 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: RottiBiz
Thanks. So we can blame Kerry for indirectly prolonging the war.

As a side note: Damn LBJ and McNamara.

95 posted on 08/10/2004 1:27:10 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Chode

i'm trying to find an electronic copy of Form-180 to send him

Hmmm Why don't we all send one to the news media and ask them why he won't fill it out? Bombard them with the truth...

here is the form

http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/standard_form_180.html#sf


96 posted on 08/10/2004 1:30:42 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

johnfkerry will lose this election during the debates......I am confident of that.


97 posted on 08/10/2004 1:52:20 PM PDT by tioga (Flush the johns in '04!)
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To: tioga
Since he is a snob he naturally will tend to lose the debates; the trouble is that the "objective neutral moderator" will have some ability and desire to downplay that.
98 posted on 08/10/2004 1:57:13 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters but PR.)
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To: Jerry W. Howard

Perhaps with some detailed leg work, someone might undertake the enormous task of finding out the programming schedule of the available radio station that Kerry was listening to on Dec 25, 1968 ...

Not sure how anyone could do that ... but someone with exceptional contacts and skill might undertake this effort. Perhaps we should ask Kerry what he was listening to ... would their have only been one station in English broatcasting into Cambodia. Was it VOA or Armed Forces Radio? ... Was reception even possible in Cambodia?

Just a group of random thoughts ...


99 posted on 08/10/2004 2:00:46 PM PDT by dartuser
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

-yeah, they tried that with the algore and even claimed he won the debates. Bring it on.


100 posted on 08/10/2004 2:02:10 PM PDT by tioga (Flush the johns in '04!)
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