Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

KERRY, SWIFT BOATS, VIET NAM, THE TRUTH, AND NAVY LOGS

Posted on 08/11/2004 6:52:45 AM PDT by 7thson

I have read a lot on FR concerning Kerry and the Swift Boats, and have listen and seen a lot of it on the tube and listened to the story on the radio. I believe the Swift Boat vets. However, here is my question. Since Kerry was in the Navy - and all navy personnel on FR know this - then he was required to keep a log on the boat. All the boats kept logs. All the logs are saved. Why doesn't someone go back and check the log records of Kerry's boat and the other boats? Has this been asked or done?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2004; aidandcomfort; antiamerican; betrayal; bronze; cambodia; christmasincambodia; command; credibilitygap; crushkerrydotcom; discrepancies; duty; flipper; hanoijohn; hanoikerry; iaintfondajohn; johnedwards; johnkerry; kerry; kerrylieddotcom; kerrylies; ketchup; ketchupmoney; liar; liarliarliar; lyingliar; military; militaryrecord; navylogs; nixonblaming; nocallnoshow; noshow; purpleheart; scambodia; sedition; skerrykerry; swift; swiftboat; swiftboats; swiftvetsdotcom; tang; tellingawhopper; thatstheticket; traitor; treason; unamerican; unfit; unfitforcommand; vet; veteran; veterans; veteransforbush; veteransfortruth; vets; vietnam; warcrimes; warcriminal; whenever; wintersoldierdotcom

1 posted on 08/11/2004 6:52:48 AM PDT by 7thson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 7thson

The Swift Boaters have been asking Kerry to sign form 180 and release all his military records, which Kerry has refused. I doubt if the records you are talking about would be covered by that though.


2 posted on 08/11/2004 6:56:22 AM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

good question


3 posted on 08/11/2004 6:56:49 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Concealed Carry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson
Why doesn't someone go back and check the log records of Kerry's boat and the other boats?

Errrr, they were misfiled along with his medical records?
4 posted on 08/11/2004 6:57:32 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (J F'n K -NO- F'n WAY. AUS RET. 61-92)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Always Right

These are navy logs. All ships, boats, watches have them. They are saved somewhere for a number of years. Find them and find out what the other commanders wrote during these times.


5 posted on 08/11/2004 6:57:41 AM PDT by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

In reality it would be a miricle if those records were locatable.


6 posted on 08/11/2004 7:00:09 AM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

The logs are kept at the miltary records archive in St. Louis Mo. Unfourtnely for us there was a fire several years ago when they were expanding the facilty underground. a lot of records were damaged or destroyed on during this event.


7 posted on 08/11/2004 7:01:02 AM PDT by TMSuchman (If we don't get out to vote, the anti-Americans will win, and we will loose everything!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

There you go asking for facts when feelings are so much more important.



8 posted on 08/11/2004 7:04:13 AM PDT by Noachian (Legislation without representation is tyranny)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

Hannity had these guys on his radio show for the last couple of days. Kerry has acess to the boat log and to his fitness reports but only he can access them, since it is his record. He choses not to do so. The rest of these vets have opened all they have to write their book..and in my book are truthful because Kerry slandered them and hundreds of others when he came home and blabbed untruths according to him.


9 posted on 08/11/2004 7:04:20 AM PDT by cousair (k)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

The logs would contain some information but probably not enough specifics, to counter any spinning, in most cases.


10 posted on 08/11/2004 7:07:19 AM PDT by ampat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

There was a thread posted here yesterday which asked for help in locating a "Spot Report" .pdf file from Kerry's military records dated January 1969. Evidently, it was released and now, has been pulled because it contained some evidence that a bright bulb in Kerry's campaign realized would directly contradict what his claims are, regarding his military service.


11 posted on 08/11/2004 7:07:51 AM PDT by soozla (BUSH CHENEY 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cousair

Kerry may have access to his own military records and controls the permission to release them. However, fitreps and evals go up the chain and are part of the navy record. He does not have control of logs, which are part of the navy archives. He cannot control the log of his own boat much less the logs of the other boats. Find these logs and records. A reporter with a desire for truth would find this information but then again, I just stopped myself there, didn't I?


12 posted on 08/11/2004 7:08:34 AM PDT by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
I am betting that they are available in the Washington Navy Yards in Washington, D.C. There is a group there that keeps copies of operation plans, and ship logs.
13 posted on 08/11/2004 7:13:01 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Truth will out, eventually.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Always Right; 7thson

U.S. Navy Deck Logs are part of Record Group 24, Records of the Bureau of Naval Personnel, are held in the National Archives at College Park [Maryland]'s Modern Military Branch. They are open to the public. I'm not sure of the date range of the logs held at College Park, though, so a google search should be able to yield an archivist's name and/or phone number.


14 posted on 08/11/2004 7:13:47 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

Interesting. Then I guess it's up to Kerry to stand up and speak for himself by releasing his military records. (Note to self: do not hold breath.)


15 posted on 08/11/2004 7:20:00 AM PDT by sarasota
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Always Right

Log book is not Kerry's record it is a record of the boat he commanded...It does not need this release...someone could do a FOIA request to get any logbooks.


16 posted on 08/11/2004 7:24:10 AM PDT by FlatLandBeer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

I have a question too. If the Swift Boat Vets keep getting told they can not "testify" about Kerry beause they were not on the same boat, then how can Kerry testify about others supposed war crimes if theyb were not on his boat? If they were on his boat and committed war crimes then he was their commanding officer and he should be held accountable. They can't have it both ways!


17 posted on 08/11/2004 7:26:09 AM PDT by landerwy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 7thson
Speaking of...last night on MSNBC they read one of Kerry's fitreps. It was glowing--describing him ahead of his peers. My question: Are these things as inflated as they are in the USAF? If I were only half the man as described in my perfomance reports, I'd be a real stud.

On the same show, Lawrence O'Donnel of MSNBC asked one of the Viet Vet Against Kerry about his one time spat with Sen McCain...does anyone know anything about that?

18 posted on 08/11/2004 7:26:51 AM PDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cousair

see post 17, I agree.


19 posted on 08/11/2004 7:28:04 AM PDT by landerwy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: HenryLeeII
The next thing to determine is if Swift boats were required to keep a deck logs. Many small boats were not required to keep individual logs. The administrative unit that commanded them kept the records on the boat deployments.

A Google search on "Washington Navy Yard" and deck logs turns up this info for the location where current deck logs are stored:

DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY -- NAVAL HISTORICAL CENTER 805 KIDDER BREESE SE -- WASHINGTON NAVY YARD WASHINGTON DC 20374-5060

20 posted on 08/11/2004 7:37:19 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Truth will out, eventually.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

If sKerry retains dominion over any archived logs, these swift boats patrolled in three's. Surely the other two boats' logs would be in agreement with sKerry's accounting if his recollection of the incident is correct. If not, the other logs should serve to bolster the arguments of SBV with respect to their current contentions.


21 posted on 08/11/2004 7:44:04 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: FlatLandBeer

BINGO!

Log books such as these are public record. The only question would be if they were perhaps in some way classified. However, most classified stuff is declassified after 30 years, depending upon the level of original classification.


22 posted on 08/11/2004 7:44:52 AM PDT by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Tom Paine

Got the following from: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq73-1.htm

The logs in question are not the same as the personnel files in St. Louis and as such would not have been subject to the fire damage in the 90s. Note he served on a BOAT not a commissioned SHIP. As such his BOAT would likely fall under the service craft definition below. That being said his parent commands records should still be available. Worth a look.

"Only deck logs from commissioned Navy ships are permanently retained by the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives. A ship "in commission" is a Navy command in her own right; she has her own administrative identity, and originates records in her own name. Annual command histories, written under a program initiated by the Chief of Naval Operations in 1952, are included in the active records of the Naval Historical Center. Deck logs are also held by the Ships History Branch of the Naval Historical Center. After 30 years, Ships History Branch transfers the deck logs to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 [telephone (301) 837-3510].

Nearly all service craft are classified as "in service," rather than "in commission." They do not have their own administrative identity but are, in effect, floating vehicles operated by a parent command. Self-propelled service craft apparently keep a log of their movements for their parent command's administrative and legal purposes, but these are not sent to the Naval Historical Center and do not go into any permanent file."


23 posted on 08/11/2004 7:45:21 AM PDT by reed13
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: 7thson

I agree..get the logs and lets put them out there and let the people decide. The fitness reports would tell all, consequently KErry will never release these.


24 posted on 08/11/2004 7:47:11 AM PDT by cousair (k)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: 7thson
">
25 posted on 08/11/2004 7:47:24 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Tom Paine
I would think, however, that if he had actually been sent on a "black" (clandestine) mission {which I do not believe for one minute that he was}, the logs would have been "doctored" to hide the actual facts.
26 posted on 08/11/2004 7:49:19 AM PDT by sd-joe (Bush has power, while Kerry has only ambition)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: landerwy

Good question. I was wondering about that last night when the libs were all over the place telling the vets they were in big trouble....law suits and all.


27 posted on 08/11/2004 7:49:28 AM PDT by cousair (k)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: HenryLeeII
U.S. Navy Deck Logs are part of Record Group 24, Records of the Bureau of Naval Personnel, are held in the National Archives at College Park [Maryland]'s Modern Military Branch. They are open to the public. I'm not sure of the date range of the logs held at College Park, though, so a google search should be able to yield an archivist's name and/or phone number.

If they are at the Archives, an archivist should be able to guide you through them. They're probably on microfiche.

The After Action Reports should be there also.

28 posted on 08/11/2004 7:52:57 AM PDT by jackbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: jackbill

STEP ONE

National Archives
Attention: Textual Reference (Vietnam)
8601 Adepphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001

Date __________________

Gentlemen,

Please verify the following records are available for research.

Unit, _________________________________________________

Brigade, ______________________________________________

Division, _____________________________________________

Date of Action, _______________________________________

OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Battalion
OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Brigade
OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Division
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Battalion
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Brigade
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Division
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Battalion
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Brigade
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Division
MACV Records

Sincerely,

_________________________________
Last, First MI

______________________________
Street Address,

______________________________
City, State Zip






STEP TWO






(Your Congressman or Congresswoman Address here)

Date __________________

Dear Congressman / Congresswoman,

I have been informed by the National Archives the following records are
available for my research.

_______________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________

I cannot arrange a trip to the National Archives. I am requesting that your
Washington DC office assign a member of their staff to visit the Archives,
copy the records, and send the copies to the address below. I understand
that I am responsible for the cost of copies.

Thank you

(Sign your name)


29 posted on 08/11/2004 8:01:30 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (Donate to the Swifties, once again serving the nation selflessly)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: HenryLeeII

I've sent an email to Collge Park asking them where I could specifically find the journals/logs for the U.S. Navy Swiftboats during the Vietnam War. Lord knows when I'll get a reply.


30 posted on 08/11/2004 8:13:48 AM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: TankerKC

I have seen copies of the FITREPs as well (when they were released earlier).

His FITREPs are nothing special. IMHO they are pretty close to standard 'boilerplate' FITREPs written to provide continuity. Outstanding performance in Naval Officers FITREPs is documented much more clearly.

From my experience with the hundreds if not thousands of FITREPs that I have prepared for senior officers, the FITREPs I read of Kerry's were "damming with faint praise" at best.


31 posted on 08/11/2004 8:15:27 AM PDT by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: mass55th

If you used the inquire@nara.gov address, you should actually get a reply sooner than you think (two or three days).


32 posted on 08/11/2004 11:46:50 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Tom Paine; kristinn

Good point - the PCFs may not have deck logs, due to their small crew size. I know NARA has deck logs through WWII and possibly into Korea; after that I'm not sure. But, there are only a handful of places that can have them, with the two most likely being NARA and the Naval Hist. Center. There are enough Freepers in the D.C. area, I'm sure they'll be tracked down. The power of Freepers cannot be denied! [kristinn - aren't you a D.C.-area Freeper? Do you know of anyone that could track them down for us, God, and country?]


33 posted on 08/11/2004 11:51:33 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07

Actually, NARA maintains a list of professional researchers who do this thing for a living. NARA doesn't usually assign staff members for this kind of thing, unless you are requesting copies of specific records (its like FOIA where you have to know the specific document you're requesting, instead of a scatter-shot "give me anything on such-and-such."). But, the professional researchers will find it for you, copy it, and send it to you quickly for a reasonable fee.


34 posted on 08/11/2004 11:56:21 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: soozla

Anything else is pulled, I have a copy of his military record page and all the PDF files, so ping me if necessary and I will post the contents of any more missing files.

I did not save it in time to have the Jan spot report.


35 posted on 08/11/2004 11:59:15 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** http://www.bugmenot.com ****)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: ampat

They'll contain a lot of info since they are to record all speed and course changes; firefights, and other important incidents. The logs for the period over that Christmas would show where to boat was. If it's tied to a pier that would have been entered including the exact time the first line was over. If underway it would show the time and date when the last line was cast off along with all speed and course changes and that could be mapped out. It should also show the time and date that some CIA agent (per his website) was inserted by Kerry and his boat into Cambodia.


36 posted on 08/11/2004 12:06:29 PM PDT by airedale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 7thson
This link is all I have been able to find re: Kerry records and the "Spot Report" from 1/69 pdf file is missing here too!! HMMMMM.......

KERRY MILITARY RECORDS

37 posted on 08/11/2004 12:25:20 PM PDT by soozla (BUSH CHENEY 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HenryLeeII
"If you used the inquire@nara.gov address..."

That's the one I used, so hopefully I'll get a respond sooner than I thought. I've done alot of research at the National Archives, and they have always been slow in getting back to me on things. That's why I figured it would take a while with this.

38 posted on 08/11/2004 2:02:00 PM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: HenryLeeII

Okay. Your FR ID name just rang a bell with me. Are you related to Henry Lee, who was President of the Friends of the Public Garden in Boston? I was briefly in touch with him several years ago regarding the Shaw monument. Although I live in central New York, my Civil War research took me to Boston on numerous occasions.


39 posted on 08/11/2004 2:06:35 PM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: mass55th

From an official Email from the Kerry campaign ..

"The swift boat ad is full of lies. Thirteen men who never served with John Kerry lie about knowing him and viciously attack his record. It is a new low for the Republicans."


40 posted on 08/11/2004 2:27:24 PM PDT by Wil H
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson