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Posted on 08/11/2004 6:52:45 AM PDT by 7thson

I have read a lot on FR concerning Kerry and the Swift Boats, and have listen and seen a lot of it on the tube and listened to the story on the radio. I believe the Swift Boat vets. However, here is my question. Since Kerry was in the Navy - and all navy personnel on FR know this - then he was required to keep a log on the boat. All the boats kept logs. All the logs are saved. Why doesn't someone go back and check the log records of Kerry's boat and the other boats? Has this been asked or done?

TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2004; aidandcomfort; antiamerican; betrayal; bronze; cambodia; christmasincambodia; command; credibilitygap; crushkerrydotcom; discrepancies; duty; flipper; hanoijohn; hanoikerry; iaintfondajohn; johnedwards; johnkerry; kerry; kerrylieddotcom; kerrylies; ketchup; ketchupmoney; liar; liarliarliar; lyingliar; military; militaryrecord; navylogs; nixonblaming; nocallnoshow; noshow; purpleheart; scambodia; sedition; skerrykerry; swift; swiftboat; swiftboats; swiftvetsdotcom; tang; tellingawhopper; thatstheticket; traitor; treason; unamerican; unfit; unfitforcommand; vet; veteran; veterans; veteransforbush; veteransfortruth; vets; vietnam; warcrimes; warcriminal; whenever; wintersoldierdotcom
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To: 7thson

If sKerry retains dominion over any archived logs, these swift boats patrolled in three's. Surely the other two boats' logs would be in agreement with sKerry's accounting if his recollection of the incident is correct. If not, the other logs should serve to bolster the arguments of SBV with respect to their current contentions.

21 posted on 08/11/2004 7:44:04 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: FlatLandBeer


Log books such as these are public record. The only question would be if they were perhaps in some way classified. However, most classified stuff is declassified after 30 years, depending upon the level of original classification.

22 posted on 08/11/2004 7:44:52 AM PDT by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine

Got the following from:

The logs in question are not the same as the personnel files in St. Louis and as such would not have been subject to the fire damage in the 90s. Note he served on a BOAT not a commissioned SHIP. As such his BOAT would likely fall under the service craft definition below. That being said his parent commands records should still be available. Worth a look.

"Only deck logs from commissioned Navy ships are permanently retained by the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives. A ship "in commission" is a Navy command in her own right; she has her own administrative identity, and originates records in her own name. Annual command histories, written under a program initiated by the Chief of Naval Operations in 1952, are included in the active records of the Naval Historical Center. Deck logs are also held by the Ships History Branch of the Naval Historical Center. After 30 years, Ships History Branch transfers the deck logs to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 [telephone (301) 837-3510].

Nearly all service craft are classified as "in service," rather than "in commission." They do not have their own administrative identity but are, in effect, floating vehicles operated by a parent command. Self-propelled service craft apparently keep a log of their movements for their parent command's administrative and legal purposes, but these are not sent to the Naval Historical Center and do not go into any permanent file."

23 posted on 08/11/2004 7:45:21 AM PDT by reed13
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To: 7thson

I agree..get the logs and lets put them out there and let the people decide. The fitness reports would tell all, consequently KErry will never release these.

24 posted on 08/11/2004 7:47:11 AM PDT by cousair (k)
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To: 7thson
25 posted on 08/11/2004 7:47:24 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine
I would think, however, that if he had actually been sent on a "black" (clandestine) mission {which I do not believe for one minute that he was}, the logs would have been "doctored" to hide the actual facts.
26 posted on 08/11/2004 7:49:19 AM PDT by sd-joe (Bush has power, while Kerry has only ambition)
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To: landerwy

Good question. I was wondering about that last night when the libs were all over the place telling the vets they were in big suits and all.

27 posted on 08/11/2004 7:49:28 AM PDT by cousair (k)
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To: HenryLeeII
U.S. Navy Deck Logs are part of Record Group 24, Records of the Bureau of Naval Personnel, are held in the National Archives at College Park [Maryland]'s Modern Military Branch. They are open to the public. I'm not sure of the date range of the logs held at College Park, though, so a google search should be able to yield an archivist's name and/or phone number.

If they are at the Archives, an archivist should be able to guide you through them. They're probably on microfiche.

The After Action Reports should be there also.

28 posted on 08/11/2004 7:52:57 AM PDT by jackbill
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To: jackbill


National Archives
Attention: Textual Reference (Vietnam)
8601 Adepphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001

Date __________________


Please verify the following records are available for research.

Unit, _________________________________________________

Brigade, ______________________________________________

Division, _____________________________________________

Date of Action, _______________________________________

MACV Records


Last, First MI

Street Address,

City, State Zip


(Your Congressman or Congresswoman Address here)

Date __________________

Dear Congressman / Congresswoman,

I have been informed by the National Archives the following records are
available for my research.





I cannot arrange a trip to the National Archives. I am requesting that your
Washington DC office assign a member of their staff to visit the Archives,
copy the records, and send the copies to the address below. I understand
that I am responsible for the cost of copies.

Thank you

(Sign your name)

29 posted on 08/11/2004 8:01:30 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (Donate to the Swifties, once again serving the nation selflessly)
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To: HenryLeeII

I've sent an email to Collge Park asking them where I could specifically find the journals/logs for the U.S. Navy Swiftboats during the Vietnam War. Lord knows when I'll get a reply.

30 posted on 08/11/2004 8:13:48 AM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
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To: TankerKC

I have seen copies of the FITREPs as well (when they were released earlier).

His FITREPs are nothing special. IMHO they are pretty close to standard 'boilerplate' FITREPs written to provide continuity. Outstanding performance in Naval Officers FITREPs is documented much more clearly.

From my experience with the hundreds if not thousands of FITREPs that I have prepared for senior officers, the FITREPs I read of Kerry's were "damming with faint praise" at best.

31 posted on 08/11/2004 8:15:27 AM PDT by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
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To: mass55th

If you used the address, you should actually get a reply sooner than you think (two or three days).

32 posted on 08/11/2004 11:46:50 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine; kristinn

Good point - the PCFs may not have deck logs, due to their small crew size. I know NARA has deck logs through WWII and possibly into Korea; after that I'm not sure. But, there are only a handful of places that can have them, with the two most likely being NARA and the Naval Hist. Center. There are enough Freepers in the D.C. area, I'm sure they'll be tracked down. The power of Freepers cannot be denied! [kristinn - aren't you a D.C.-area Freeper? Do you know of anyone that could track them down for us, God, and country?]

33 posted on 08/11/2004 11:51:33 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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To: jwalsh07

Actually, NARA maintains a list of professional researchers who do this thing for a living. NARA doesn't usually assign staff members for this kind of thing, unless you are requesting copies of specific records (its like FOIA where you have to know the specific document you're requesting, instead of a scatter-shot "give me anything on such-and-such."). But, the professional researchers will find it for you, copy it, and send it to you quickly for a reasonable fee.

34 posted on 08/11/2004 11:56:21 AM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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To: soozla

Anything else is pulled, I have a copy of his military record page and all the PDF files, so ping me if necessary and I will post the contents of any more missing files.

I did not save it in time to have the Jan spot report.

35 posted on 08/11/2004 11:59:15 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** ****)
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To: ampat

They'll contain a lot of info since they are to record all speed and course changes; firefights, and other important incidents. The logs for the period over that Christmas would show where to boat was. If it's tied to a pier that would have been entered including the exact time the first line was over. If underway it would show the time and date when the last line was cast off along with all speed and course changes and that could be mapped out. It should also show the time and date that some CIA agent (per his website) was inserted by Kerry and his boat into Cambodia.

36 posted on 08/11/2004 12:06:29 PM PDT by airedale
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To: 7thson
This link is all I have been able to find re: Kerry records and the "Spot Report" from 1/69 pdf file is missing here too!! HMMMMM.......


37 posted on 08/11/2004 12:25:20 PM PDT by soozla (BUSH CHENEY 2004)
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To: HenryLeeII
"If you used the address..."

That's the one I used, so hopefully I'll get a respond sooner than I thought. I've done alot of research at the National Archives, and they have always been slow in getting back to me on things. That's why I figured it would take a while with this.

38 posted on 08/11/2004 2:02:00 PM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
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To: HenryLeeII

Okay. Your FR ID name just rang a bell with me. Are you related to Henry Lee, who was President of the Friends of the Public Garden in Boston? I was briefly in touch with him several years ago regarding the Shaw monument. Although I live in central New York, my Civil War research took me to Boston on numerous occasions.

39 posted on 08/11/2004 2:06:35 PM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
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To: mass55th

From an official Email from the Kerry campaign ..

"The swift boat ad is full of lies. Thirteen men who never served with John Kerry lie about knowing him and viciously attack his record. It is a new low for the Republicans."

40 posted on 08/11/2004 2:27:24 PM PDT by Wil H
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