John Kerry's Bodyguard of Lies

TAS ^ | 8/12/04 | Thomas Lipscomb

[pookie18]

NEW YORK -- Winston Churchill often repeated Stalin's observation that "in wartime truth is so precious that she should always be attended to be a bodyguard of lies." And now that the Democratic National Convention has ended with Kerry's acceptance speech concentrating on his four month service in the Vietnam War 35 years ago, rather than his service during the past 35 years, it appears particularly appropriate.

One of the pesky IRS Code 527 organizations that now buzz through the campaign atmosphere like insatiable horseflies in the aftermath of McCain-Finegold reforms has had the presumption to raise some serious questions about the truth of John Kerry's Vietnam wartime service.

Called "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth," the group has a website, airs TV ads running in key "battleground" states, and has published a book. The conniving and self-promoting lies of the John Kerry it portrays make Sammy Glick look like a rank amateur.

If the incidents it details are true, Kerry was a coward who fled in battle having unintentionally thrown his current supporter, Jim Rassmann, overboard in his panic. Kerry tried to get his first Purple Heart on the basis of a tiny self-inflicted wound from his own grenade. His supporter, Max Cleland, accidentally blew both his legs off and one hand off with one of his own grenades, but never asked for a Purple Heart because, just as in John Kerry's case, there was no enemy action at the time. Kerry went behind the back of the commander who refused his medal request and the doctor who had treated him, and got one anyway.

Swiftvet officers watched this kind of behavior for four months into Kerry's 12 month "tour of duty." Then three of them told him pointedly that he'd better use the three Purple Heart escape clause and return to the States fast. Kerry left the next morning. And those are just a few of charges the Swiftvets are making. It certainly is a very different picture of the war hero than his campaign has been painting of their JFK: John Forbes Kerry -- but this time as John "Flashman" Kerry.

"CONSIDER THE SOURCE" INVITED Kerry campaign spokesman Luis Vizcaino. And last week Marc Elias, General Counsel for Kerry-Edwards 2000, and Joseph Sandler, General Counsel for the Democratic National Committee sent a hurried and semi-hysterical letter warning television stations not to run Swift Boat Vets ads setting out their definition of "the source" It is well worth reading as a reductio of Kerry campaign logic.

"The group is a sham organization," it points out. Yet the Swift Boat Veterans had been organized months earlier with the IRS and Federal Election Commission, just like MoveOn.org and dozens of other 527s, and was no more "sham" than they were. As a matter of fact they had elected to remain unincorporated under the regulation and take the risk of being perhaps the only 527 in which its members were willing to accept personal liability for their actions, unlike MoveOn which had compared Bush to Hitler. The Swiftvets are either very brave or very dumb.

"The advertisement contains statements by men who purport to have served on Senator Kerry's SWIFT Boat in Vietnam. they pretend to have served with Senator Kerry. ." Actually nothing in the ad calls any of the men it cites as being Kerry's crew members. And there can be no doubt they "served with Senator Kerry" in the same Coastal Group 11 at the same time. Worse still, 16 out of the 23 surviving officers and commanders who served with Kerry at the base now claim he is unfit for command, much less to become commander in chief of the U.S. Armed Forces. And the Swiftvets claim to have a total of 254 members who served from Seaman to Admiral in Kerry's Coastal Squadron 1, including several of Kerry's commanding officers and some sailors who had been on Kerry's boat.

"Fake 'witnesses' speaking on behalf of a phony organization."? Swiftboat service was not a lone wolf operation. Kerry's boat ran in tandem with other Swiftboats who were anywhere from 10 to a couple of dozen yards away, rather like World War II aircraft using formations to protect one another in combat. So the crews and commanders of other boats during Kerry's operations were witnesses all right. They kept a keen eye on anything another boat was doing, right or wrong-particularly since the mistakes of another boat could threaten their own survival. And boat commanders like Kerry, rather than enlisted crew members of his or any other crew, were more likely to have the best understanding of how the mission was being performed by another commander.

"The entire advertisement, therefore, is an inflammatory, outrageous lie". and should stations run it anyway."your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor." Remarkable. On the face of the simple facts recited above, Elias and Sandler may have written the first legal letter in campaign history that actually commits the violations it charges its target with. making "false and libelous charges." It also raises a clear question of tortious interference with existing and proposed contracts between Swiftvets and the stations they had lined up to run the ads.

THEN THERE ARE THE "chilling effect" First Amendment violations of Swiftvets' perfectly ordinary 527 conduct in using its donors' funds to make its point of view heard without supporting a particular candidate. Ironically the real question is, who do Elias and Sandler represent? Who retained them? From their signatures as General Counsel it appears that both are working on behalf of and being paid by the taxpayer-funded Kerry campaign

But to do what? To threaten television stations that they may be sued for libel, purely on the basis of Kerry campaign assertions of false statements by individuals who are likely lack actual malice and were certainly in a position to have relevant opinions, if fallible memories, of events that happened 35 years ago? This is long before Kerry had any professional association with the Democratic Party. Let's assume Elias and Sandler are absolutely correct in their assertions and there is no statute of limitations on this kind of outrageous libel (there is, and it has passed). Isn't this Kerry's personal case to prosecute, not the Democratic Party's?

What if, for example, the Democrats had decided to run commercials based on what they felt was valid information attacking Richard Nixon for getting rich by cheating his shipmates at poker on those boring supply runs in the South Pacific during his naval service 25 years earlier and perhaps running a black market operation on the side out of naval stores at various ports? Should the Republican Party have used donor money to prosecute a case that has nothing to do with Nixon's political service?

Whatever the truth of the Swiftvets charges, they are a credible organization and their members were certainly in a position to have informed opinions. And in their unincorporated 527 status they are easy to sue and they are now on the record. So where are all the lawsuits against them for libel? Imagine the awards John Edwards' trial lawyer buddies can get out of an operation which, according to Al Hunt -- in one of his most embarrassingly often wrong but never in doubt rants, is "significantly funded and directed by Texas fatcats and political operatives."

In the New Republic yesterday, a naif named Kenneth Baer begs the Democratic Party to commence a major lawsuit against the Swiftvets for libel, lèse majesté, whatever. And given the sloppy work Elias and Sandler have done so far, that would be the answer to the Swiftvets' prayers. Wait till those expedited depositions start to leak -- forget the trial. Baer was a speechwriter for Al Gore. He runs "a Democratic consulting firm." The GOP should be so lucky as to have him gain influence.

In the meantime, Dick Morris, John McCain, Bill O'Reilly and others should stop twittering about how rude and crass and dishonorable and counterproductive it is to even explore such nasty possibilities in public and take a look at the charges and supporting documentation brought forth by the Swiftvets. Does it matter whether they are funded by Richard Mellon Scaife, George Soros, or The Tooth Fairy? What does matter in a close presidential election is if there is significant evidence that some or all of the Vietnam service Kerry has elected to make the center of his campaign to move from "war hero" to "war president" is a tissue of lies.

And it is time for the press to look into the charges brought by the Swiftvets. The Swiftvets have depositions, phone numbers, on the record statements, and for all of the innuendo from the Kerry apparatchiks, not one of the Swiftvets has enjoyed a fancy hotel room paid for by the Bush campaign, much less gone on a campaign tour with the candidate. It is easy to see what the nine Kerry crew members are getting out of their 15 minutes of fame. But what's in it for the 254 Swiftvets? It is important to answer that question in considering their charges.

Thomas Lipscomb was the chairman of the New York Vietnam Veterans' Leadership Program which worked to develop employment of heavily minority area veterans. He is the founder of Times Books.

[Deb]

Good one, Tom!

[Deb]

The Winston Churchill quote makes no sense. I assume there's a typo.

[pookie18]

Did a Google search...most results (but not all) replace "to be" with "by".

[Deb]

Has to be.

[Khurkris]

another good post in a very rich field of items coming in.

[Remington Rebel]

an the damn brits dont speak out language anyhow ;^)

just kidding im gratful for their support in Iraq

[USMCVet]

"in wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."

This is an excellent article but like a number of others like it, misses the central point: Kerry went from his four months in Vietnam to assist the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong enemy by leading efforts against his "band of brothers".

He lied in his testimony before Congress against us - how would he have known anything about the quality or honor of our (infantry) service in Vietnam? He was a "boat driver" in rivers - he never came anywhere near the real combat! Then he met with respresentatives of the enemy in Paris while we were still at war. Doesn't that constitute treason?

Dick Morris and the Leftist-Democratic choir have successfully deflected attention from Kerry's most serious deficiencies.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

And it is time for the press to look into the charges brought by the Swiftvets. The Swiftvets have depositions, phone numbers, on the record statements, and for all of the innuendo from the Kerry apparatchiks, not one of the Swiftvets has enjoyed a fancy hotel room paid for by the Bush campaign, much less gone on a campaign tour with the candidate. It is easy to see what the nine Kerry crew members are getting out of their 15 minutes of fame. But what's in it for the 254 Swiftvets? It is important to answer that question in considering their charges.

Pass around to EVERYone you've ever known. :)

[Pharmboy]

When the campaign started, I thought that Kerry was merely another demonrat liberal hack. But now it is clear that this guy is dangerous loser. He's done.

Thanks for posting.

[an amused spectator]

Kampuchea Kerry bump back to you, Deb. :-)

[alwaysconservative]

Excellent article bump!

[alwaysconservative]

Excellent article bump!

[RogueIsland]

As a matter of fact they had elected to remain unincorporated under the regulation and take the risk of being perhaps the only 527 in which its members were willing to accept personal liability for their actions

I didn't know that. These guys have some brass ones, I'll give them that. Nice to know there are still guys like this left in the world.

[BillyCrockett]

And the SwiftVets story keeps going, and going, and going...

[kabar]

He was a "boat driver" in rivers - he never came anywhere near the real combat!

I agree with most of what you said, but the PCFs and PBRs on the rivers had one of the highest casualty rates of any units in Vietnam. It is demeaning to say that they were not anywhere near real combat nor is it true.

[RogueIsland]

In the meantime, Dick Morris, John McCain, Bill O'Reilly and others should stop twittering about how rude and crass and dishonorable and counterproductive it is to even explore such nasty possibilities in public and take a look at the charges and supporting documentation brought forth by the Swiftvets.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for O'Reilly to deign to educate himself about a topic before disgorging his opinion about it on national television.

[BlueLancer]

"...but this time as John "Flashman" Kerry."

They've taken the name of the great man ... Harry Flashman .. in vain!

The Flashman Papers: a summary

Understanding the biggest rogue ever to pull on a pair of Cherrypickers.

During the Victorian era Harry Flashman fled like a rabbit, toadied like a fawning lapdog and whored his way like a prime bull to undeserved military success and fame for over half a century without getting caught out ... almost, for Harry was never out of trouble for long for all his experience getting struck down by the dirty end of fortune's wand so to speak - he never learns to keep to the straight and narrow path of righteousness, which for us is a great fortune since he would have never been kicked out of Rugby, ridden with the Light Brigade at Balaclava, taken part in the Indian Mutiny, met Otto Bismarck, Abraham Lincoln, and Queen Victoria herself; if these things had not taken place the Victorian era would have been different, and we would not have the Flashman Papers to enjoy and study!

A coward, a Cad; chronically unfaithful to his beautiful and devoted(sic) wife, to whom he is hopeless and ardently attached. A paragon of Victorian manhood; a lying adulterer who cheats at billiards. A bully. A cheat, thief and playactor. Unwilling hero in the biggest battles and events of the British Empire. Sir Harry Flashman; VC; KCB; KCIE; the hero of George Macdonald Fraser's Flashman Papers.

[IamConservative]

"But now it is clear that this guy is dangerous loser. "

Think about the psychology of this man. He decided 35 years ago - when (according to Ann Coulter) he filmed his exploits in Vietnam and upon leaving announced his goal to be President - to use his Vietnam service to validate his candidacy. He never mentions his professional experience in the intervening 35 years. Prosecutor (or DA?), Lt. Governor and United States Senator. Who in their right mind would "apply for a job" and base their fitness and suitability for the task on a four month experience from 35 years ago?

Indeed, who in their right mind would hire such a person.

[WaterDragon]

Whew! I'm sure I found this post, pookie. This is a great article by Lipscomb, and it should be read by everyone.

I don't think Kerry or the DNC will be suing the Swiftvets, and after reading this column, I understand why!

[WaterDragon]

Have you and snippy seen this column by Lipscomb? Take a look at the note about Lipscomb at the end of the article.....

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

My thoughts and questions:

His supporter, Max Cleland, accidentally blew both his legs off and one hand off with one of his own grenades, but never asked for a Purple Heart because, just as in John Kerry's case, there was no enemy action at the time.

Brillant point.
Max Cleland, sadly and patheticly, allows himself to be used in the "DNC Dog & Pony Show". Here in Georgia, that Max's injuries were accidentaly self inflicted is common knowledge. 99.9% of those watching the convention would assume Max lost those limbs in battle. Logical assumption, I am sure. I would have thought the same thing if I did not know the truth.

Omitting the relevant facts about Cleland's injuries and knowing most of the nation would think Cleland received his wounds in battle, Kerry has once again lied to this country. A lie by omission, but a lie nonetheless.

After Max's defeat in Georgia, the voters in Georgia were smeared the same way Kerry is attempting to smear the Swifties. We called Max unAmerican. We questioned his patriotism. Blah, blah, blah. Terrorism is the important issue to us in Georgia. We decided Senator Chambliss would best represent our interests. It was time for us to look past Max's loss in Viet Nam and vote on the issues, those same issues John Kerry runs from.

His version of the "Brother Love Travelin' Show" is so full of contradictions and outright lies, I have lost count. The electorate has only what he has given us to examine, his service in Viet Nam. And examine it, we will.

And the Swiftvets claim to have a total of 254 members who served from Seaman to Admiral in Kerry's Coastal Squadron 1, including several of Kerry's commanding officers and some sailors who had been on Kerry's boat.

Question:
Has there been an estimate of a number put out as to how many men served over, under, beside or with" John Kerry during his tour?

They kept a keen eye on anything another boat was doing, right or wrong-particularly since the mistakes of another boat could threaten their own survival. And boat commanders like Kerry, rather than enlisted crew members of his or any other crew, were more likely to have the best understanding of how the mission was being performed by another commander.

Another brillant point. Of course they knew what the score was. SURVIVAL

On the face of the simple facts recited above, Elias and Sandler may have written the first legal letter in campaign history that actually commits the violations it charges its target with. making "false and libelous charges."

If Kerry's First Responders in an election campaign are legal attack dogs, what will he do if and when he has the power of the Presidency behind him? Did he step up to the plate to face the issues like a man, the hero he claims to be? No. He threatens to sue, an action which would tie up the litagants for years. The legal fees would be enormous. How many people would lose employment if a station went down? Kerry's First Responders will have the potential to put many people out of work.

Rather than allow citizens to exercise free political speech without fear of government reprisal, Kerry prefers to tie litigants up in court.
(Note to McCain: As my kids say: "Smooth move Ex-Lax" Thanks for nothing)

What does matter in a close presidential election is if there is significant evidence that some or all of the Vietnam service Kerry has elected to make the center of his campaign to move from "war hero" to "war president" is a tissue of lies.

If anyone deliberately witholds facts required to cast an informed ballot,We, The People will have been disenfrancised. Nothing less.

Kerry, the DNC, members of the media (by suppressing this story or dimissing it as "political pornography), and even those in the GOP who condemn it as "dishonest" or "dishonorable" want us ignorant.

We deserve nothing less than truth. We learn the truth by facts. Without facts our votes means nothing.

We, the People will be You, the Stupid.

[saveliberty]

I don't think so-- I think the Brits captured the essence of Just For Kerry. I find his character in Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta the Gondoliers. Kerry = Duke of Plaza Toro.

I had to think of him that way as 1) He got a purple heart for accidentally firing on a bag of rice and shooting himself in his southern hemisphere and 2)in a panic, Kerry tossed Rassmann overboard and then "rescued" him. :)

The Duke of Plaza Toro


DUKE.
In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind--
He found it less exciting.
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore, O--
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
ALL.
In the first and foremost flight, ha, ha!
You always found that knight, ha, ha!
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
DUKE.
When, to evade Destruction's hand,
To hide they all proceeded,
No soldier in that gallant band
Hid half as well as he did.
He lay concealed throughout the war,
And so preserved his gore, O!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well-connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
ALL.
In every doughty deed, ha, ha!
He always took the lead, ha, ha!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well-connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
DUKE.
When told that they would all be shot
Unless they left the service,
That hero hesitated not,
So marvellous his nerve is.
He sent his resignation in,
The first of all his corps, O!
That very knowing,
Overflowing,
Easy-going
Paladin,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
ALL.
To men of grosser clay, ha, ha!
He always showed the way, ha, ha!
That very knowing,
Overflowing,
Easy-going
Paladin,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
That very knowing,
Overflowing,
Easy-going
Paladin,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro! Plaza-Toro!

[Gritty]

BTTT

[PhilipFreneau]

>> The Winston Churchill quote makes no sense. I assume there's a typo.

No typo. Churchhill was referring the "secret war" -- the spying and other forms of intelligence gathering, troop movements, etc. -- and the importance of protecting it, with lies if necessary. For example, the British allies captured a few of Germany's decoding machines (called the Enigma). To prevent the Germans from finding out about the captured Enigmas, Churchhill allowed the town of Coventry to be bombed by the Germans without warning its citizens, even though Churchhill knew exactly when it would be bombed. Another famous example was the massing of Patton's fictious army (fake tanks, equipment, radio traffic, etc.) in Kent to trick the Germans into believing the D-Day attack would be further to the North.

[Interesting Times]

Very good article.

Called "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth," the group has a website, airs TV ads running in key "battleground" states, and has published a book.

One minor correction; "Unfit for Command" is not a product of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, although many of the Swift vets were interviewed for it.

[pookie18]

[ride the whirlwind]

Good article.

If the incidents it details are true, Kerry was a coward who fled in battle having unintentionally thrown his current supporter, Jim Rassmann, overboard in his panic.

Rassmann is an enigma to me. Was he not aware of Kerry's actions that led to his needing to be saved in the first place?

[Flashman_at_the_charge]

Kerry is no Flashman! Firstly he hasn't got the looks, but if he was then Theresa would be smiling like the Enzyte lady, which she obviously isn't!

[GaretGarrett]

Great piece. I don't understand why I've heard nowhere that they refused to incorporate & have each taken indiv. responsibility for the truth of what they say. This is astounding, given the litigious tendencies of the Dem. party, and IMO is the best imaginable proof of the integrity of those men.

It should be the first & last fact all conservative columnists/bloggers/TV & radio hosts mention when they discuss this matter.

[bray]

"On more than one occasion, I like Martin Sheen in "Apocalypse Now," took my patrol boat into Cambodia. In fact I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real.

John Kerry “Apocalypse Now" on Oct 14, 1979 in the Boston Herald.

The Kerry Campaign has now admitted that this was a fabrication. This is far from a slip of the tongue this is a well thought out written attack on a President and country that not only impugned them, but the Ex-Government of South Vietnam. This soon became the basic prejudice of the history of the Vietnam War. The damage by this statement and further statements shamed an entire generation of men who gave their heroic service to their country and turned it to humiliation.

John Kerry came back from the war a decorated hero and soon parlayed that into the most decorated witness of war crime atrocities committed by the United States and South Vietnam. Nobody would question his truthfulness because he had chest full of medals and had no motivation to lie. Anybody who questioned him was quickly painted as a war criminal and a tool of the military. He was quickly annointed as the only moral person in an immoral war and this is exactly why this lie is so sickening.

We have now found and John Kerry has admitted that he was never in Cambodia on Christmas Eve or any other time. He never violated Cambodia’s sovereignty and neither did the South Vietnamese Army. Forget that President Nixon was not in office in 1968, but he never ordered any American Troops into Cambodia. President Nixon was telling the truth and John Kerry, decorated war hero was lying. President Nixon had to surrender to the North Vietnamese in shame and went to his grave a war criminal because of these lies. President Nixon we find four decades later, was telling the Truth.

His testimony and this story was the foundation of the Vietnam scar on America’s military. The stories of torturing prisoners and villagers became the visual of Viet Nam. The indiscriminate incursions into Cambodia and Laos was common knowledge. Because of these stories the soldiers came back from Nam to be spit on by American public. Now we find out these stories were all the fantasy of a young John Kerry who managed to keep his fabrications in the America’s consciousness. Vietnam became the club that hammered our military, over and over again. All of this was built off of the Cambodia lie and his false testimony in Congress.

John Kerry was still telling these lies as of last year when he showed off a hat he brought back from this Cambodia incursion. This he claimed was his lucky hat, given to him by a CIA agent?? What kind of dementia is this man suffering from? Did he actually believe any of his lies or did he enjoy being Mr Macho who steered his boat into another country during combat? Did he enjoy being Blood and Guts Kerry or was there something more sinister??

Because of this lie both Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon became the pyrias of American politics. Both went to their graves as accused war criminals, violating the sovereignty of innocent countries. As we find out that they were the innocent victims of a smear campaign led by John Kerry. John Kerry painted himself as the only moral person in an immoral war. As we find out the military was indeed fighting this war morally and the only immoral person in this story was John Kerry. Because of this lie two Presidents were made war criminals and an entire generation of soldiers were spit upon. What can John Kerry offer to repair his damage he has done to America?? The very least he can do is finally come clean, apologize for his atrocious lies and resign from the race!

Pray for W and Our Troops

[Intolerant in NJ]

Most excellent article - again kills the myth that these men shouldn't be talking about Kerry because "they didn't serve on his boat" - someday it'll stay dead......

[USMCVet]

"I agree with most of what you said, but the PCFs and PBRs on the rivers had one of the highest casualty rates of any units in Vietnam. It is demeaning to say that they were not anywhere near real combat nor is it true."

I don't know where you're getting your information - I can't imagine anyone coming close to the casualty rates I saw with the Marine infantry units in Vietnam! If the PBR and PCF crews came even close, I guess I owe them a tip of the hat, but it's hard to imagine - compared to the daily, relentless bloodletting that was the life of our grunts over there.

What is your source?

[pookie18]

Most excellent article - again kills the myth that these men shouldn't be talking about Kerry because "they didn't serve on his boat" - someday it'll stay dead......

Today wasn't the day...Max Cleland was "mything" again & again on The Big Story With John Gibson on FoxNews...guess he didn't read the article...wouldn't matter if he did ;-)

[Intolerant in NJ]

That would be Max "Butterfingers" Cleland, I presume.......

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

Most excellently put.

[Howlin]

[Howlin]

I have some questions I'd like to ask Kerry:

1) If these men are liars, why did he use their picture in his ads?

2) Who pays the expenses for your "Band of Brothers?"

3)What are you trying to limit the discussion of these incidents to ONLY the men who were your crew, i.e., served under you.

4) Just how many people received medals the day you 'saved' Rassmann?

[bray]

Thank you, I am going to be on the stage with W tomorrow!

Pray for W and Our Troops

[Howlin]

Oh, I am so jealous. Have a great time and report back!

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

Add to that:

1. You are running for President, not John Hurley. Why will YOU not step up to the plate like a man to address the serious allegations made against you.
2. Holding yourself to the same standards the DNC holds President Bush, when can we expect the release of your 180?
3. Here is a list of contradictions: Please address them point by point.
   (insert contradicitions here)
4. Will you grant permission for your Band of Brothers to answer questions regarding your service?
5. Last week you were quoted as saying you were proud of your actions after Viet Nam. I am of the opinion we should never have been there unless the military oversaw the operations instead of the politicians. In that sense, I was very much anti-war. For the sake of our troops:
   • Address the long lasting effects your words and deeds had on our troops, both in the rice patties, prison camps, and at home.
   • Was their anger justified?
   • Swiftboat Veterans aside, many Viet Nam Veterans from all branches of our Armed Forces oppose your candidacy based on you words and actions 30 years ago. The pain, hurt and anger has not lessened with the passage of time. Do they not have a right to speak without having accusations hurled at them or written off as GOP operatives? What do you say to them? Get over it?
6. Can you give us the name of the anyone who approved your secret missions into Cambodia?
7. What boat did you use for those missions?
8. Where are the logs?
9. In your testimony, you admitted to committing atrocities. Were these committed while operating a Swiftboat or during your secret missions? Are your Band of Brothers guilty of committing these atrocities as well? Can you give us the details of at least one instance?
10. As Commander In Chief, you will be responsiblity for the Armed Forces extends from the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff to the greenest recruit just entering basic training. Does your admission in anyway affect your moral authority to deal with those who have are facing court martial regarding their actions at Abu Ghurayb Prison?

I could go on & on & on. But, damn it, this man is running for President of the United States. We have a right to ask him, not his surrogates, these questions. We have a right to the answers. We have a right to hear him answer the questions.

If he is elected, this issue will follow him to the Oval Office. Times are too dangerous, stakes are too high.

[USMCVet]

"I agree with most of what you said, but the PCFs and PBRs on the rivers had one of the highest casualty rates of any units in Vietnam. It is demeaning to say that they were not anywhere near real combat nor is it true."

Turns out that Kabar just made this up for us: he didn't have any idea what the casualties or lack of casualties the Swifties sustained in Vietnam. I honor the guys that fought with me, and the navy riverine people fought well so honor is due - but I'm really tired of "snipers" that throw up a few invented statistics, then disappear when you want proof.

Unlike Kabar, I was in combat in Vietnam - and the Marine Corps and Army infantry saw fighting and sustained casualties far above anything seen by the other units there - including Swift boat units.

If we're going to bounce in with comments, let's try to keep them honest and accurate.

[SkyPilot]

bttt

[BlessedBeGod]

BUMP!

[Blue Eyes]

Bump for later reading.