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Records Counter a Critic of Kerry
Washington Post ^ | 8/19/04 | Michael Dobbs

Posted on 08/18/2004 8:24:34 PM PDT by Callahan

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To: FairOpinion
Why doesn't the FOIA apply to Kerry's records?

I was under the impression he had to sign a release for them

So did Thurlow sign a release ??

With that said .. this is from the WP and I have no down some information is being with held

I'll wait for further details

101 posted on 08/18/2004 8:58:12 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: Mo1

Ding....Ding....Ding....Winner #78


102 posted on 08/18/2004 8:59:22 PM PDT by Viet-Boat-Rider ((KERRY IS A NARCISSISTIC LIAR, GOLDBRICKER, AND TRAITOR!))
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To: cake_crumb
I agree. Damn. Why don't they get KERRY'S records?

Look at it this way: There is ONE version of events that day. There is only ONE version of the truth.

This is the first time this story has broken out to the MSM.. the WaPo no less... They have a way to steer to remove the bias for their boy, JFK.

See this thread for the unspun version

103 posted on 08/18/2004 8:59:59 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (When you think LIAR, TRAITOR, FRAUD or COWARD... think JOHN KERRY!)
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To: Numbers Guy
...but I fear...

Stop that!

See my tagline...spoken by GWB.

104 posted on 08/18/2004 9:00:05 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: Callahan
SNOPES.COM needs to update their Urban Legends Reference Pages

Claim:   John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under "fishy" circumstances.

Status:   False.

Example:   [Collected on the Internet 2004]


  Sources Sources:
    Brinkley, Douglas.   Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War.
    New York: HarperCollins, 2004.   ISBN 0-06-056523-3.

    Klein, Joe.   "The Long War of John Kerry."
    The New Yorker.   2 December 2002.

    Kranish, Michael.   "John F. Kerry: Candidate in the Making — Part 2: Heroism, and Growing Concern About War."
    The Boston Globe.   16 June 2003.

105 posted on 08/18/2004 9:00:19 PM PDT by spycatcher
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To: SuziQ

I believe you are correct. This story is only going to get Kerry into more trouble. The deeper the media looks into this, even in their attempts to support Kerry, the more trouble Kerry will get into. It's very diffcult for Kerry to fight the truth and the memory of 60 swift boat officers, even with help from the liberal media.


106 posted on 08/18/2004 9:00:22 PM PDT by carl in alaska (Suddenly the raven on Scalia's shoulder stirred and spoke. Quoth the raven..."NeverGore")
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To: Callahan
There IS more to this:

"A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions itook place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance' to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire.

" 'It's like a Hollywood presentation here, which wasn't the case,' Thurlow said last night after being read the full text of his Bronze Star citation. 'My personal feeling was always that I got the award for coming to the rescue of the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is sickening and disgusting.' "

Thurlow didn't write this, someone else did. The case the Compost makes later is that that Kerry didn't author his own requests for medals, and if Thurlow didn't know what was written in the reccomendations, Kerry didn't either.

107 posted on 08/18/2004 9:00:27 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: sarasmom

The MSM, Kerry and his campaign know they can't defend Kerry's record, because the SwiftVets are saying the truth, so they try to twist things around and attack them, hoping to put the SV-s on the defensive.

This accusation is no better, than Kerry trying to get out of his lying claims, which were "seared, seared, I say" into his memory, and now all of a sudden, he was in Cambodia in January, not December, and everyone is supposed to be happy with that explanation.

We all should have learned by now to question the MSM claims, not act, as if their claims were the irrefutable truth and expect the Swifties to go run and hide.


108 posted on 08/18/2004 9:00:29 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: Steven W.

Maybe this thread can be forward to Michael Dobbs at the WaPo and he can get some in-depth answers from Kerry?


109 posted on 08/18/2004 9:01:01 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: Mo1

The WP is simply reading John Kerry's Citation is my bet


110 posted on 08/18/2004 9:01:25 PM PDT by MJY1288 (John Kerry Says he Would Conduct a More Thoughtful and Sensitive War on Terror)
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To: Callahan

Having read the article, I think this is much to do about nothing. There are two versions of the story on that day, Kerry and the citations state that they were under enemy fire. 3 of 4 swift boat skippers state that there was no enemy fire. Kerry is the one whose account agrees with the record. The only question is who wrote the citations, and from whom did they get their info? Obviously not the 3, so it had to be Kerry. Another Kerrytale confirmed.


111 posted on 08/18/2004 9:02:02 PM PDT by TheDon (The Democratic Party is the party of TREASON)
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To: Callahan
dobbsm@washpost.com

Enjoyed your Post reportage regarding the records of Swift Boat Veteran Larry Thurlow. In the interest of completeness, why don't you reference Thurlow's After Action Report, rather than the medal citation alone? Even better would be the after action reports of all the commanders involved.

Since you have seen the document, you understand that the medal citation is neither a timely, nor a first person account of what happened. Can you report who wrote the citation? If you can, it would be good to include that information. For the sake of completeness, you understand.

Far more valuable would be the after action reports of all the commanders involved. With your rapid response relationship with the records people, it should be fairly simple to get the information.

Keep digging.

112 posted on 08/18/2004 9:02:07 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: Callahan
Let's see, Mr. Thurlow lost his medal 20 years ago and is now giving it back. Kerry gave his back 20 years ago but still has it! Hmmm..
113 posted on 08/18/2004 9:02:20 PM PDT by ohCompGk
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To: CedarDave

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2004/021104e.htm Towards the end of article.


114 posted on 08/18/2004 9:02:30 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (Kerry is a threat to national security)
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To: Mo1

Thurlow did not sign a release, but the WP was able to get his records under the FOIA. So why can't someone get Kerry's records the same way?

Also, the AP sued the Pentagon to release Bush's records, and they did.

All this could be resolved once and for all, if Kerry would release his records, or the media would demand to get them, which they don't.


115 posted on 08/18/2004 9:02:55 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: Rokke

Yeah, I'm still here. I'm just placing myself in the shoes of the average idiot "undecided" voter. If Thurlow knew there was no fire, why accept the Bronze star? If he thought he deserved it just because of the mines, he's not questioning the validity of Kerry's own Bronze, just the extraneous "under fire" stuff.

I understand the problem here. The MSM keeps referring to these citations as the final word, but they were written second hand.


116 posted on 08/18/2004 9:03:21 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: spycatcher
Brinkley, Douglas. Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War.

Written from John Kerry's journal.

117 posted on 08/18/2004 9:03:22 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: spycatcher
Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War. FICTION!
118 posted on 08/18/2004 9:04:16 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (When you think LIAR, TRAITOR, FRAUD or COWARD... think JOHN KERRY!)
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To: DaveMSmith

Thurlow did NOT admit to fraud. He said he didn't report enemy fire and if this enemy fire was the basis for his medal, THEN it was fraudulant because he thought he got HIS Bronze Star for saving a man's life while NOT being under enemy small arms fire. He KNEW there was a mine explosion. Everyone agrees on that.


119 posted on 08/18/2004 9:04:16 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: TheDon

Rassman said he wrote Kerry up for a silver star but kerry only got the bronze..who wrote up thurlow? did someone take rassmans report and make a recommendation for thurlow? who would have the best motive? Kerry....


120 posted on 08/18/2004 9:04:28 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: 1066AD
you're right - WHAT AN ADMISSION BY THE COMPOST!

Kerry's boat had sped down the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.

So the Compost has declared that the SwiftVet's version of the story was correct - Kerry sped away after the mine on the PF3 boat and returned later. Gee, sounds like what the SwiftVets have been saying all along! and it certainly doesn't mesh with Kerry's LIEs

Also of interest:

Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version of events.

As I recall, O'Neill has repeatedly alleged that Kerry DID file the report for this particular episode and why they've always wanted to see that document and why Kerry refuses to release it! For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as

121 posted on 08/18/2004 9:04:36 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Callahan
Thurlow would not have known about the attributing statement(s) to his award unless he was told. When they present the Bronze Star, they only give a generalization of the award, something like,"for your bravery and courage under duress, we are presenting you with a Bronze Star". I don't even think the Post can guarantee this came from Thurlow's files. They could have just ask for Thurlow's medal citations and the achieves pulled it from a data base and on the reason line it says,"Bravery under fire"? It wouldn't be the first time The Post stretched for a story.
122 posted on 08/18/2004 9:04:43 PM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: Steven W.
yes this is a hit from the Kerry campaign - they gave reporter the doc they wanted
him to find (and which Kerry had written the officer up for, behind his back &
unbeknownst to him)


Poor Kerry. You'd think your Swiftboat buddies would appreciate a good fib (told without
their knowledge, as they wouldn't have that Kerry gift for word-craft)...so that
it would be a "more medals the merrier!".

What a bunch of peon ingrates!
(I'm sure that's Kerry's thought!)
(end sarcasm)
123 posted on 08/18/2004 9:05:02 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Viet-Boat-Rider
I was there a few months before him, but we hadn't learned how to play the medals game.

(It would be amusing, except that so many fine young men in all branches of the service, especially army and marines, lost their limbs or lives there. Therefore, it makes the games played by Kerry [and by any who joined him] and the lies he made up, particularly disgusting.)

124 posted on 08/18/2004 9:05:10 PM PDT by CedarDave (Viet Nam Vet, USN Coastal Div. 13, Cat Lo, XO USCG patrol boat, 1968: No atrocities on my watch!)
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To: spycatcher
ROFLMAO,

"Joe Klein" writing a book on John Kerry would be as objective as Lanny Davis writing a biography on Bill Clinton

"Michael Kranish" might be a little questionable considering his wife works for John Kerry

"Douglass Brinkley" has already admitted he wrote the book on Kerry primarily from John Kerry's own recollection

SNPES has gone down a few notches in my opinion :-)

125 posted on 08/18/2004 9:05:35 PM PDT by MJY1288 (John Kerry Says he Would Conduct a More Thoughtful and Sensitive War on Terror)
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To: spycatcher
ROFLMAO,

"Joe Klein" writing a book on John Kerry would be as objective as Lanny Davis writing a biography on Bill Clinton

"Michael Kranish" might be a little questionable considering his wife works for John Kerry

"Douglass Brinkley" has already admitted he wrote the book on Kerry primarily from John Kerry's own recollection

SNPES has gone down a few notches in my opinion :-)

126 posted on 08/18/2004 9:05:35 PM PDT by MJY1288 (John Kerry Says he Would Conduct a More Thoughtful and Sensitive War on Terror)
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To: Numbers Guy
"But it's not being spun that way. I hope that I'm dead wrong, but I fear that the press will take this one issue and use it to undermine the credibility of the entire Swift Boat Vets' argument. The media will definitely try; hopefully they won't succeed."

They will. The press is going to lie in order to discredit the Stift boat vets while AT THE SAME TIME protect Kerry and keep HIS records HIDDEN.

127 posted on 08/18/2004 9:06:01 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: Callahan; ValerieUSA
Headline is spin. Intent is to smear.
"For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.

Two other Swift boat skippers who were direct participants in the March 13, 1969, mine explosion on the Bay Hap, Jack Chenoweth and Richard Pees, have said they do not remember coming under "enemy fire." A fourth commander, Don Droz, who was one of Kerry's closest friends in Vietnam, was killed in action a month later."

128 posted on 08/18/2004 9:06:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: spycatcher

Sorry for the double post :-(


129 posted on 08/18/2004 9:06:27 PM PDT by MJY1288 (John Kerry Says he Would Conduct a More Thoughtful and Sensitive War on Terror)
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To: Viet-Boat-Rider
The FOIA works both ways. Just wait until a conservative newspaper looks into Kerry's Navy records and uncovers stuff like this: Navy had to virtually straightjacket Kerry.
130 posted on 08/18/2004 9:07:58 PM PDT by carl in alaska (Suddenly the raven on Scalia's shoulder stirred and spoke. Quoth the raven..."NeverGore")
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To: NavySEAL F-16
Maybe this thread can be forward to Michael Dobbs at the WaPo and he can get some in-depth answers from Kerry?

He is not interested in getting to the bottom of this. It is a strategic hit from the Kerry campaign ... but like much of what the SwiftVets expose, there are embedded truths in everything that perpetually damn Kerry's LIEs about these events.

Note how the Post "reporter" came to write this story - he's told there's this particular document and is told the spin with which Kerry campaign reps (could be somebody in his "band of brothers" or, more likely, their politicos at their press conference recently). They request that document via FOIA knowing exactly where to file and everything. Then they report the spin they're given (that's the way these things work with major media / lib reporter types) but, in so doing, they have to present the facts ... and the facts, as they're being dissembled on this thread, reaffirm & support everything the SwiftVets have been saying and refute Kerry's accounts even further!

131 posted on 08/18/2004 9:08:49 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: CedarDave

"The group claims the backing of more than 250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of Kerry's fellow boat commanders."

According to http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php
only 1 of 20 of his fellow boat commanders support him and from what I remember only a few (5-6?) are not taking a position. That means at the minimum, 2/3rds of his fellow commanders on in this group or have signed affidats etc..

The Post's use of "majority" is very misleading.

As for the rest of the article... The Post isn't clear what the other vet (Thume?) really thought. It throws out that he says his own medal might be 'fraudlent', but that the writeup could ahve been written by kerry. Settles nothing, but does weaken their claim because of his seeming uncertainty. To me, whole article seemed 'choppy' and didn't 'flow'.

I'm going to have to see more of this come out from both sides before I take an opinion on this.


132 posted on 08/18/2004 9:08:52 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/farenheight_911.htm)
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To: Callahan
The Post filed an independent request for the documents with the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central repository for veterans' records. The documents were faxed to The Post by officials at the records center yesterday.

Interesting that the WP immediately goes after Thurlow and were able to get his records so quickly. The point is that Thurlow didn't write up his own report and did deserve the Bronze Star. In Unfit for Command, it was Thurlow who tried to rein in PCF 3, which was going around in circles with a dazed, unconscious crew onboard. He was thrown into the water on the first attempt to board the PCF 3 and then later brought it to a stop after it was on a sandbar.

I believe Thurlow when he said he believed he received the medal for saving people and paid no attention to the wording about being under fire. Thurlow certainly deserved a medal more than Kerry. Hopefully, the SBVFT will respond. The battle is now joined.

133 posted on 08/18/2004 9:09:15 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Callahan

from:
Massachusetts Veterans for Kerry Edwards

http://veteransforkerry.home.att.net/truth_about__slime_boat_sailors_.htm

The TRUTH about SLIME BOAT SAILORS for BUSH

This is part of the Official Kerry Site as noted by comparing contact info. I can't post actual page. If someone knows how, I'd appreciate it.

_______________________________________________

.........The ad continues with a statement from the NEXT talking head….LARRY THURLOW, who says: “….When the Chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry.” My Thurlow ALSO, was never a crewmate of John Kerry, but he, and HIS BOAT were also entrapped in that ambush on that fateful date in March of 1969. The Official After-Action Report states: “Larry Thurlow had maneuvered his PCF-51 over (to the disabled) PCF-3, and by and hopped aboard to offer assistance. The boat was in shambles but they were still returning fire and could not therefore assess any damage” The Report continues….“ALL BOATS RECEIVED HEAVY A/W [automatic weapons] & S/A [small arms] FROM BOTH BANKS…ALL BOATS RETURNED FIRE…PCF-94 [Kerry’s boat] PICKED UP SPECIAL FORCES ADVISOR WHO WENT OVERBOARD. PCF-94 TOWED PCF-3.” [U.S. Navy After Action Report:)

Did you all catch that last part? Despite the withering gunfire, despite being wounded, and AFTER saving the life of the Special Forces Guy…Lt. Kerry…Commanding PCF-94, hooked up a tow line to the disabled PCF-3, and TOWED it to (eventual) safety! It does NOT state that Lt. Thurlow took on this task! Who is he ACTUALLY talking about…when he says “when the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry”?.....

______________________________________________________

Say what we want about Kerry, but he is not stupid. Ruthless, yes. Stupid, no. He has had a plan since before Viet Nam. No one has been able to bring him down. No one.

This may be part of the Kerry stategy. The above info (and much more) is on that web page. Once again, comparing contact info IT IS PART OF THE OFFICIAL KERRY EDWARDS ORGANIZATION.

Kerry has been very quiet. How many of us believe the Washington Post said "Hey, Let's file a FOIA on Thurlow!" Someone is feeding them this info. Where to look. Whose files to request.

Even if he did not anticipate the attention the Swiftees has gotten, he may have used it as a way to neutralize ANY charges against him, from Viet Nam to VVAW, to his Senate record.



134 posted on 08/18/2004 9:10:01 PM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: TheDon

Good summary. I want to know why we can't get the after-action reports from the other commanders? Or is there only one for the whole incident?


135 posted on 08/18/2004 9:10:08 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: Steven W.

how about requesting a copy of the WP FOIA request(under FOIA) and all documents sent to them...LOL...


136 posted on 08/18/2004 9:10:21 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Callahan

Please note Thurlow said he didn't prepare the report or see it..


137 posted on 08/18/2004 9:10:46 PM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: Callahan

I'd bet that there are after action reports filed by each skipper.


138 posted on 08/18/2004 9:12:13 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (When you think LIAR, TRAITOR, FRAUD or COWARD... think JOHN KERRY!)
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To: rolling_stone

Amazing debunk of JK's actions .. from leftists !


139 posted on 08/18/2004 9:12:28 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: MJY1288

LOL!
Some old style reporter type might want to address FOIA requests to Navy archive resources on Guam.
Just for the S&G factor...


140 posted on 08/18/2004 9:12:35 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: CedarDave

Kerry has been a political animal from the age of 10. He used to rub elbows with the kennedy's and other demo garbage. He knew the game. Kennedy was the same, he didn't deserve his accolades. He should have had a Captains Mast for what happened.
FWIW - I have 2+ rows of ribbons, and have never read the commendation to go with any of them, the only reason I know I have them is from my DD214. In fact I had a few more than I knew when I got out.


141 posted on 08/18/2004 9:12:56 PM PDT by ProudVet77 (So many questions for Kerry - so few answers from Kerry)
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To: Callahan

The citation would be a condensed version of the report submitted of the mission, along with any witness statements. Thurlow may have contributed to describing what transpired on the mission, but he would not likely have had a direct input to the award process.


142 posted on 08/18/2004 9:12:56 PM PDT by ampat
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To: CedarDave
Dave,

I agree with you. Kerry's lies about the Medals have hurt all of us.

Remember that Kerry also lied when he came back from Nam, and hurt all Vets with his lies, and especially the POW because they were tortured with his lies.

The American people were also hurt because Kerry pitted everyone against each other for his own personnel political gain.

I hope that Kerry burns in hell for the harm that he has done.

143 posted on 08/18/2004 9:13:17 PM PDT by Viet-Boat-Rider ((KERRY IS A NARCISSISTIC LIAR, GOLDBRICKER, AND TRAITOR!))
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To: HarryCaul
**SNORT** Lookie what I found on the very bottom of this spin dried pile of folded, spindled and mutilated facts the Compost calls an article:
Advertising Links by Google What's this?
John Kerry's bestseller
My Vision for a Better America Only $16.97 (affiliate)
www.amazon.com
Kerry in the White House?
Cast your vote now and see election results today
kerry.peel.com
Hedge Fund Mistress
Former John Kerry girlfriend has written a tell-all book.
www.hedgefundmistress.com

How many people saw the thread on the Hedge Fund Mistress thread? Former Kerry Lover Launches Website And MAN she's more whacked out than Teresa!

144 posted on 08/18/2004 9:15:38 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: Callahan
The Washington Post especially has an interest in keeping Kerry's dishonesty secret.

The Washington Post used Kerry's dishonesty and, in particular, his dishonesty about Nixon and Cambodia as a springboard from which to launch their hatefest against a President which caused him to resign.

If the public figures this out, the Post is toast.

145 posted on 08/18/2004 9:15:41 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Chaguito
Dang, I have to read more carefully...

dobbsm@washpost.com

Re: my previous email...sorry I missed the paragraph in your article regarding after action reports. Am I to understand from your article that absolutely no after-action report exists for this episode?

Beyond that, I still feel that the citation is not a piece of primary documentation. Your article, while presented fairly in my opinion, puts too much emphasis (also in my opinion) on an anonymous(?) document. Any help?

146 posted on 08/18/2004 9:16:35 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: Callahan
Ask yourself this question as an "undecided voter". Kerry's contends that there was "HEAVY small arms and grenade attacks" on 5 boats. How is it that John Kerry was apparently the ONLY one of 30 crew members wounded especially when one boat was completely immobilized by a mine and the others were sitting ducks trying to rescue the crew in the disabled boat.
147 posted on 08/18/2004 9:16:40 PM PDT by Texasforever (God can send you to hell but he can't sue you. He can't find a lawyer.)
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To: Callahan
Regardless of SwiftVets (although their material is pretty damning to "Cut & Run Kerry), there is still no excuse for the FREQUENT lies he told:

1. Bicycling across Russian Checkpoint in Germany

2. Christmas in Cambodia

3. Anti-War Hippie days <-- WHILE STILL A NAVY RESERVIST!

4. Meeting with communists

5. Entering politics <-- Somebody needs to dig HERE!

6. Annulment of marriage

7. Absentee Senator

8. POW/MIA cover-up

9. Adopting Bob Kerrey's record as a Senator

10. HIS ENTIRE CAMPAIGN 2004

Folks from Massachusetts aren't very selective about their candidates for Senate, now are they?

148 posted on 08/18/2004 9:16:49 PM PDT by RasterMaster (Saddam's family were WMD's - He's behind bars & his sons are DEAD!)
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights
Kerry is stupid. He lied. He has pulled a monumental fraud on The United States of America

Hope he has a good lawyer... maybe Edwards will help...

149 posted on 08/18/2004 9:17:12 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (When you think LIAR, TRAITOR, FRAUD or COWARD... think JOHN KERRY!)
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To: Texasforever

IIRC he got the "V"; citations are on his website (even if they are signed by Reagan's Navy Sec'y).


150 posted on 08/18/2004 9:17:16 PM PDT by 1066AD
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