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Israel admits training elite US forces
The Times (UK) ^ | 18 August 2004 | Richard Beeston

Posted on 08/19/2004 12:56:38 PM PDT by burlywood

Urban warfare tactics used in the Gaza Strip are being translated to Iraq

US FORCES fighting in Iraq have been accused of secretly training in Israel, where they have been taught tactics used over the past four years against Palestinian militants in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

A senior Israeli military expert confirmed that elite American troops were regularly trained in Israel.

Tal Tovy, an expert in guerrilla warfare who teaches at Israel?s military staff college, said that US Marines and Army Rangers frequently visited the country on exercise and there was close co-operation on tactics.

He was speaking after The Jerusalem Post reported that some American soldiers serving in Iraq have been trained at the counter-terrorism school in the Adam military base, near Modi?in, outside Jerusalem.

The Israeli Defence Force declined to comment yesterday about co-operation with foreign forces. The American Embassy in Tel Aviv said that from time to time the two countries did conduct joint exercises but denied that there were US forces in Israel at present.

Nevertheless, the allegation will fuel growing suspicions in the Arab world that the Israelis are secretly involved in assisting the Americans in Iraq. The tactics of the two countries? Armed Forces are regularly compared to each other on Arab news channels and in newspapers across the Middle East. this year Brigadier-General Janis Karpinski, the senior American officer embroiled in the scandal about the mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison, said that she had met an Israeli interrogator at an intelligence base in Baghdad.

The American press suggested that Israeli intelligence officers had established a permanent presence in the northern Kurdish region of Iraq.

It has been repeatedly alleged that US commanders have studied and adopted Israeli tactics, particularly the use of air power and armour against insurgents concealed in heavily populated areas.

Many in the Arab world believe Israel was behind the invasion of Iraq. Among Israelis, however, it is a matter of pride that they are able to share their expertise with their closest ally.

The Israelis are building what is being touted as the largest urban warfare training base in the world at Tzeelim, in the Negev desert, and have offered to rent it out for training to foreign troops.

Dr Tovy told The Times: ?We are very experienced in guerrilla warfare. There are three areas that the Americans have shown particular interest in: the use of Apache helicopters for targeted killings; urban warfare; and how to conduct large military operations in heavily populated areas. We have a lot of experience in this field.?

Dr Tovy said that when he visited the American military academy at West Point he was closely questioned by officers about Israel?s controversial Operation Defensive Shield, the offensive into the West Bank launched in 2002.

Israel?s military tactics, including use of guided missiles to assassinate militant leaders in Gaza and the use of heavy armour in built-up areas, appear to have been replicated by the Americans in Iraq. US fighter jets and helicopter gunships have been used repeatedly to kill suspected militant leaders in the rebel stronghold of Fallujah, west of Baghdad.

Like Israel, America has used tanks and helicopters in densely populated areas such as Sadr City in Baghdad, and now the holy city of Najaf, to take on rebel gunmen. Deploying heavy armour causes civilian casualties but reduces the risk of injury to soldiers.

Using Israeli-style tactics has not only caused anger in the Arab and Muslim worlds. It has also created strains in relations with the British, who have adopted a far less confrontational approach in their sector of southern Iraq.

A British military source said: ?There have been disagreements between American and British commanders in Iraq over tactics. That is one reason the British never went to Baghdad and why the offer to send British troops to Najaf was never taken up.?

British forces have focused on maintaining good relations with the local communities in an attempt to isolate the insurgents. The British tactic has come in for private criticism from American officers and some Iraqis, who have accused the British forces of being too soft. They claim that the failure of the British to impose their authority has created a power vacuum in southern cities such as Basra and al-Amarah that has been exploited by Muslim militants, insurgents and ordinary criminals.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; allyisrael; iraq; israel; specialforces; training

1 posted on 08/19/2004 12:56:39 PM PDT by burlywood
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To: burlywood

And the problem with this is...


2 posted on 08/19/2004 12:59:02 PM PDT by Publius (Mother Nature is a hanging judge.)
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To: Publius

No problem, just thought it made interesting reading.


3 posted on 08/19/2004 1:00:08 PM PDT by burlywood
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To: burlywood
It has been repeatedly alleged that US commanders have studied and adopted Israeli tactics, particularly the use of air power and armour against insurgents concealed in heavily populated areas.

Gasp!

4 posted on 08/19/2004 1:00:13 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP (www.logicandsanity.com)
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To: burlywood
Two words for those that whine about this:

OH DAMN!

5 posted on 08/19/2004 1:00:39 PM PDT by getbillnow
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To: burlywood; Alouette; Zionist Conspirator; malakhi
Let's see.

If learning Israeli urban warfare tactics save the lives of some of our troops in Iraq and ultimately makes the mission more efficient and reduces mission time, the US will probably save several billions of dollars.

Will the anti-Israel zealots on FR then concede that our financial support of Israel, which they are always whining about, has yielded a clear dividend?

I'm guessing not.

6 posted on 08/19/2004 1:03:27 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: burlywood

OK.


7 posted on 08/19/2004 1:04:28 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Conspiracy Guy, Secretary of Humor and Tomfoolery)
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To: wideawake

Got no problem here, we're all on the saving civlization from the Islamokazi team, aren't we?


8 posted on 08/19/2004 1:05:06 PM PDT by Braak (The US Military, the real arms inspectors!)
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To: burlywood

Let's hope we put that learning to good use in the field.


9 posted on 08/19/2004 1:06:45 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: burlywood

Can't think of a better group to train our guys.


10 posted on 08/19/2004 1:06:47 PM PDT by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
11 posted on 08/19/2004 1:07:27 PM PDT by SJackson (We’ll cut the tongues of anybody who speaks badly about us-not accept gangsterism by Cowboys, Nasser)
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To: Publius
And the problem with this is...

I suppose we could have gone looking for anti-terrorist training with the French army, for instance. Our people would learn how to drop their guns and drawers quicker than any other country could teach them. Or of course, the U.S. could do the ridiculous and ask the world's most terrorist-tested army in the world, but that's Irael!

12 posted on 08/19/2004 1:07:50 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones

right on bro. I'd much rather go to an auto racing school being taught by Ralph Nader than Mario Andretti.
If you want to fight like the best then you train with the best. duh.


13 posted on 08/19/2004 1:13:12 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (it takes a school to bankrupt a village)
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To: burlywood

Israel is a TRUE ally, not only among leadership but apparently among a majority of their population. I thank them for helping in defense of America, our men and women, the cause of freedom along with the defense of their own.


14 posted on 08/19/2004 1:15:51 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: burlywood

Why hasn't Cowpinski been court-martialed yet?


15 posted on 08/19/2004 1:19:44 PM PDT by ken5050 (We've looked for WMD in Iraq for LESS time than Hillary looked for the Rose Law firm billing records)
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To: Soul Seeker

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. Israel has the world's finest anti-terrorist forces because the same Muslims that are now attacking the U.S. have been attacking their much smaller country many years. If you want the best advice go to the best, and let the anti-semites howl - and they will.


16 posted on 08/19/2004 1:21:04 PM PDT by xJones
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To: burlywood

What a surprise ! :o)


17 posted on 08/19/2004 1:25:51 PM PDT by traumer
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To: Soul Seeker

Perhaps I misunderstood your reply, ss. Sorry, you were replying to someone else! Oh boy, time to get some sleep...:)


18 posted on 08/19/2004 1:25:55 PM PDT by xJones
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To: ken5050
Why hasn't Cowpinski been court-martialed yet?

Please excuse my ignorance, but you've lost me there... Cowpinski?

19 posted on 08/19/2004 1:26:57 PM PDT by burlywood
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To: burlywood

sorry..my bad attempt at humor..BG Karpinski..referred to in the article..the commander of the prison..she looks like a cow..


20 posted on 08/19/2004 1:28:44 PM PDT by ken5050 (We've looked for WMD in Iraq for LESS time than Hillary looked for the Rose Law firm billing records)
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To: burlywood
Do they get there a driving licence for these...?
21 posted on 08/19/2004 1:31:45 PM PDT by traumer
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To: traumer

22 posted on 08/19/2004 1:32:46 PM PDT by traumer
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To: xJones

LOL It's okay.

I was replying to the tone in the article, not specifically a person, by voicing my support for Israel. I agree with you about why Israeli's are best equipped to fight this enemy as they have been their target for a concentrated time. I'm grateful they are willing to share their expertise with us. Especially knowing that they are unlikely to be the beneficiary of praise given the anti-semite feelings in the region, but certainly they have had a role in the liberation of many Muslims as well.


23 posted on 08/19/2004 1:37:40 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: burlywood
So who are we supposed to go to for expertise in urban warfare? The Russians? Yeah, let's flatten everything in sight, as in Chechnya. Everybody expects the Russians to do that. At this time in history, the U.S. can't afford that tactic politically, nor would we want to do that.
The Saudis? Har.
24 posted on 08/19/2004 1:39:17 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: BrooklynGOP

their medics go to our independent duty corpsman schools and advanced field trauma school as well. glad to know that our boys are getting great training from those who are in the know. but i am sure there are those that believe everything should be taught in the classroom or someother bs.


25 posted on 08/19/2004 1:39:56 PM PDT by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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To: traumer
HOLY CATS, look at the size of that dozer! Are Israeli dozers that big, or has it been photo shopped? I hope its that big, you can scoop up a bunch of Palis real quick.
26 posted on 08/19/2004 1:44:00 PM PDT by Lockbar (Hell starts at home.)
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To: burlywood
It's no big sedret.

I've seen these exercise written about routinely in the newspapers. Usually a one paragraph blurb.
27 posted on 08/19/2004 1:50:00 PM PDT by opbuzz
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To: burlywood

"Using Israeli-style tactics has not only caused anger in the Arab and Muslim worlds."

Maybe we should try suicide bombing and carbombing civillians? The Arab world doesn't seem to have much of a problem with that.


28 posted on 08/19/2004 2:00:00 PM PDT by adam_az (Call your State Republican Party office and VOLUNTEER!!!!)
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To: ken5050
sorry..my bad attempt at humor..BG Karpinski..referred to in the article..the commander of the prison..she looks like a cow..

Thanks for clarifying that for me, sorry to be so dense.

Maybe she could be court-martialled for crimes against aestheticism (I speak, of course, as a bona fide Adonis myself), but I would not want to see her sacrificed as a scapegoat to appease the liberal press.

29 posted on 08/19/2004 2:07:36 PM PDT by burlywood
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To: burlywood; 1bigdictator; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2sheep; 7.62 x 51mm; A Jovial Cad; a_witness; adam_az; ..
This was reported in the Jerusalem Post more than a year ago.

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

30 posted on 08/19/2004 2:09:04 PM PDT by Alouette (The IDF should develop a Prozac Bomb and blast the entire Middle East, including Israel.)
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To: Lockbar
HOLY CATS, look at the size of that dozer! Are Israeli dozers that big, or has it been photo shopped?

This is what a real Israeli dozer looks like :)

Seriously, they use Cat D9's with armored cabs.

Seems like they really are that big.

31 posted on 08/19/2004 2:15:31 PM PDT by Alouette (The IDF should develop a Prozac Bomb and blast the entire Middle East, including Israel.)
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To: Lockbar

This is a standard issue D-10 Cat, painted OD green and armored by the Israelis. Blade looks to be about 40 yard capacity.


32 posted on 08/19/2004 2:16:53 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: burlywood

That is funny. They write about it as if it is a big conspiracy. We train them is some things, they train us in others. We have that same agreement with several countries around the world.


33 posted on 08/19/2004 2:18:08 PM PDT by Boxcar
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To: burlywood
Among Israelis, however, it is a matter of pride that they are able to share their expertise with their closest ally.

***********

Excellent.

34 posted on 08/19/2004 2:18:32 PM PDT by trisham
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To: Lockbar
The size is real. http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/engineer_vehicles/bulldozers/D9_D10.html
35 posted on 08/19/2004 2:35:15 PM PDT by traumer
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To: burlywood; Poohbah; Gunrunner2
"US FORCES fighting in Iraq have been accused of secretly training in Israel, where they have been taught tactics used over the past four years against Palestinian militants in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. A senior Israeli military expert confirmed that elite American troops were regularly trained in Israel. Tal Tovy, an expert in guerrilla warfare who teaches at Israel?s military staff college, said that US Marines and Army Rangers frequently visited the country on exercise and there was close co-operation on tactics. He was speaking after The Jerusalem Post reported that some American soldiers serving in Iraq have been trained at the counter-terrorism school in the Adam military base, near Modin, outside Jerusalem."

Yawn...I trained at Camp Adams. It has been going on for over a decade and has zero to do with the new tactics they're learning while whooping Arab ass. They might pass that training on to us...but that is what militaries do...the story pretends that we have begun coming to Adams in order to learn the tactics they have recently learned.

We've [Marines] been there on a regular basis, I know since at least 1992.

36 posted on 08/19/2004 2:43:50 PM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: All

OBTW...

Drink plenty of water and watch out for the scorpions.

~grin~


37 posted on 08/19/2004 2:47:20 PM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: All

Oh yeah...

And the nomadic ant colonies rolling on a path 3-7 feet wide and God only knows how long.

Need a fun little game to pass the time away?

Toss one of the scorpions [little and biege] into the Ant march and see how many he can take out before they completely overwhelm him.

What? We're Marines for Pete's sake.


38 posted on 08/19/2004 2:50:43 PM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: Alouette; All

Rack it
I know Israel and US want keep it secret if this true

Rack the IDF


39 posted on 08/19/2004 2:58:15 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("Not everybody , in it, for truth, justice, and the American way,"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: Alouette

bump,Thanks for the ping


40 posted on 08/20/2004 4:02:54 AM PDT by SirLurkedalot (God bless our Veterans!!! And God bless America!!! Molon Labe.)
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