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Employer fines plummet for hiring illegals
North County Times ^ | 22 August 2004 | William Finn Bennett

Posted on 08/22/2004 12:10:57 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder

Since 1998, the federal government has fined just four companies in San Diego County and none in Riverside County for hiring illegal immigrants ---- and those statistics seem to paint a very different picture than the one recently described by Undersecretary of Homeland Security Asa Hutchinson.

At an Aug. 13 town-hall meeting on illegal immigration held in Temecula, Hutchinson touted the more than 500 investigations of companies the federal government has recently conducted nationwide. Of those, 179 were in Southern California, he said.

And while a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman said last week that the number of investigations has increased since 2001, he acknowledged the number of fines has dropped dramatically in that same period.

Numbers plummet

Federal records show that in 2001, 141 companies across the country were hit with fines, 15 of them in California. By 2002, those numbers had dropped to 73 and one, respectively. In 2003, 15 companies in the United States were fined ---- none of which were in California. And as of May, just one company ---- in Maryland ---- was fined this year.

In Southern California, the numbers are even smaller. Thirteen companies received fines for violations of immigration laws in 2001 ---- and only two since.

In this region, not a single Riverside County company has been fined in the past decade. In San Diego County, just four companies have received fines since 1998 ---- one each in Chula Vista, San Diego, Santee and Vista.

A member of the recently formed Temecula-based Citizens Alliance for a Strong America said last week that when it comes to employer sanctions, the federal government's performance is "disgraceful."

"Somebody needs to get fired for that record," said Freeman Sawyer.

With that kind of impunity, Sawyer said, many employers or would-be employers are taking advantage of the situation.

Almost every city in the region has at least one designated street corner where day laborers gather in the morning waiting for offers of work. Many of the workers who were interviewed for prior articles have admitted to being in the country illegally, saying they have come here to work so they can support their families back home.

"Since the possibility of being put in jail or fined is so remote, (the employers are) not worried about it," he said.

"What are the incentives for obeying the law when it's so profitable not to obey?" he asked, adding that employers who hire illegals pay rock-bottom wages and no benefits, and therefore realize larger profits.

Undersecretary Hutchinson could not be reached for comment last week. However, Russ Knocke, Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Washington spokesman, said Friday that workplace enforcement of immigration laws is ongoing.

The number of investigations the department has conducted of businesses nationwide has increased from 1,595 in 2001 to 2,194 in 2003, Knocke said.

He added that the low number of fines being issued is somewhat misleading, since those penalties are typically issued in only the most egregious cases. Many times, instead of issuing a fine, the government works with the employers, teaching them how to avoid hiring illegal immigrants, he said. In other cases, he added, government officials will negotiate the terms of the sanction with the company, and those deals are not made public.

Tough choices

Asked why the number of companies fined has dropped so dramatically in the past few years, Knocke cited limited resources and a shift in focus to protecting the country against terrorism since 9-11.

"I think (the numbers) show our reprioritization," he said.

Busting employers who hire undocumented immigrants for jobs where national security is not at stake comes much further down the list of priorities, he added.

"Contrast a restaurant versus an airport," said Knocke said. "We have limited resources to carry out our mandate ---- we have to make choices."

He said the government's focus on national security risks is paying significant dividends. In 2002, Homeland Security ---- Immigration and Customs is part of that agency ---- started Operation Tarmac to target employers and unauthorized workers at airports across the county.

Since then, more than 5,800 businesses at 196 airports have been audited, Knocke said. Those audits have resulted in the arrest of 1,058 unauthorized alien workers, and the government has obtained 775 criminal indictments.

With an estimated 8 million illegal immigrants living in the United States, the federal government has its hands full, Knocke said. He said his department doesn't have agents exclusively dedicated to monitoring "traditional" workplaces such as hotels, restaurants or farms. Instead, agents are assigned to work where the needs are greatest. And, for now, Knocke said, the government's No. 1 priority is monitoring sites such as airports, and energy and chemical plants.

Enforcement vacuum creates draw

The decline in arrests of employers of illegal immigrants, said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Temecula, and host of the Aug. 13 town-hall meeting, is due to an almost complete abandonment of interior enforcement in the two decades following an amnesty in 1986.

In addition to resuming sweeps by the Border Patrol, Issa said Immigration Customs Enforcement officers must pursue employers who hire illegal immigrants. Prosecution should be relatively easy, he said, because many such employers already have committed a felony by paying workers in cash under the table ---- a violation of the Internal Revenue code.

And those in the business of smuggling illegal immigrants across the border ---- or "coyotes," as they are sometimes commonly called ---- should be vigorously prosecuted, he said, though they frequently are not because they are not viewed as a danger to the community.

Issa pointed to a letter sent to Attorney General John Ashcroft on July 30 by 14 members of the California Republican delegation. In it, the delegation expressed concern over the lack of prosecution of alien smugglers and called for a zero-tolerance policy. The letter pointed to the case of the arrest by the Temecula Border Patrol of a suspected coyote with what it called a long, documented record that includes multiple deportation proceedings and numerous arrests. The Justice Department, according to the letter, declined to prosecute and the suspect was released.

"The one thing I know for sure is the Border Patrol proved it is effective in arresting people who are not in this country legally," said Issa, "but we need to have effective employer enforcement, otherwise they create a draw" for illegal workers.

Professor blames middle class

A UC Riverside professor of ethnic studies said last week that he believes the federal government sits on its hands, turning a blind eye to those employers who hire illegal immigrants, because the country needs those workers.

"This country has an insatiable hunger for cheap labor," he said.

If the government started really cracking down on companies that hire those workers, "it would result in higher prices and higher prices create bigger problems ---- it (would) open up an economic Pandora's box," said Professor Armando Navarro, who also serves as coordinator for the National Alliance for Human Rights, an immigrant advocacy group.

He blasted America's middle class for being hypocritical and blamed the immigration problem on "those who have nice homes in Temecula and have their lawns cut by illegal immigrants and patronize restaurants where illegals are employed."

Though Sawyer, with Citizens Alliance for a Strong America, is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Navarro, he appears to agree that America's middle class shares the blame. Referring to the 141 fines that Immigration and Customs Enforcement issued in 2001, he said: "I would bet there are more housewives than that in Temecula (with) illegal maids and nannies."

Temecula at center of controversy

A firestorm of controversy over illegal immigration recently erupted after allegations surfaced that under pressure from top administrators, agents at the U.S. Border Patrol's Temecula station had ended a series of sweeps in Inland cities stretching from Escondido to Ontario.

The sweeps of Latino communities began in early June and, in a few short weeks, agents had apprehended 492 people. Immigrant rights groups immediately began pressuring Washington legislators to end the operation. While federal officials have said there was no edict to stop the sweeps, several Border Patrol union officials have stated that the roving patrols were halted.

In response, local supporters of the Border Patrol's efforts howled in protest. They held a series of rallies in support of the agents' efforts in the following weeks, resulting in Undersecretary Hutchinson's visit to last week's town-hall meeting in Temecula.

Sawyer said that during the meeting ---- which drew more than 1,000 people ---- Hutchinson was peppered with questions about why the government was not coming down harder on employers of illegal immigrants.

"Asa talked to us about how they are improving, going to work sites and enforcing immigration laws," Sawyer said. "He misspoke ---- the federal government is doing less rather than more."

Bush's performance

Sawyer said he blames President George Bush and his administration for the continuing flood of undocumented workers who cross the border.

A longtime Republican activist, Sawyer said his work for Republican presidential candidates dates back to the 1960s and the Barry Goldwater campaign.

"But I'll be damned if I am going to work for the Bush campaign until he changes his current immigration policies and starts enforcing immigration law," Freeman said.

An expert in immigration at USC defended Bush's record.

"To his credit, Bush has tried to open the door to reform, whether through a 'Bracero' program or amnesty," said Professor Pierrette Hondagneu-Sotelo. "His efforts haven't gone anywhere with Democrats or Republicans largely because this is seen as too politically volatile on both sides."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; enforcement; hutchinson; illegalaliens; immigration; rico
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 08/22/2004 12:10:57 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder
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To: B4Ranch; madfly; FITZ; Reaganwuzthebest; hsmomx3; Joe Hadenuf; 4Freedom; Ajnin; Marine Inspector; ..

Ping!


2 posted on 08/22/2004 12:11:51 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

I suspect there is a reason for this... For some reason, I think the Feds want to know where the illegals are, while they ramp up a way for going after the illegals for deportation.

But it is still disturbing because it more likely that they are just backing off.


3 posted on 08/22/2004 12:14:05 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: gubamyster; HiJinx; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; ...
(Lack of) Employer Enforcement ping.

"Wanted: Scofflaw employers to fill orange jumpsuits."

This is the Number One thing that has to done to start the illegals self-deporting. Other recent Border Issue stories:

Bush's nephew decries use of pellet guns by border guards (4th posting)

Emergency Room Closures Strain L.A. (Guess Why)

16 illegal entrants injured in pickup-truck rollover

Al-Qaida Said to Recruit in Latin America (2nd posting)

Bush's nephew Rips armed Border guards (3rd posting)

Denver Schools Clarify Policy After Outcry Over Mexican Flag(ongoing story)

Rescuing the Law of the Sea (sovereignty issue)

Bush's Nephew in Mexico, Calls Arming Of Border Guards 'Reprehensible' (2nd posting of story, 200+ comments)

4 posted on 08/22/2004 12:19:56 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (http://www.numbersusa.com)
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To: coconutt2000
I suspect there is a reason for this

The reason is so that their wealthy friends can hire help at rock bottom prices and we Americans pay their way.

Medical, medicine, dental, housing, food, utilities, education and give them and all their relatives a welfare check. Just my opinion.

5 posted on 08/22/2004 12:24:17 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

It's easy to determine where the illegals are in California. Just take a look at all the medical clinics that have shut down because they're losing money (since illegals are little but a blackhole-style drain on such resources).


6 posted on 08/22/2004 12:24:21 PM PDT by Prime Choice (Democrats. They want to have their cake and eat yours too.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Read later.


7 posted on 08/22/2004 12:26:00 PM PDT by EagleMamaMT
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To: coconutt2000
I think the Feds want to know where the illegals are, while they ramp up a way for going after the illegals for deportation.

I have a suggestion for a 0% return rate method of deportation...


8 posted on 08/22/2004 12:26:10 PM PDT by Prime Choice (Democrats. They want to have their cake and eat yours too.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
"Enforcement vacuum creates draw"

The most simple, cost effective, and surest method for enforcement is to offer the public cash bounties for both Illegaliens and the felon supporters.

9 posted on 08/22/2004 12:28:19 PM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Bump for dissemination at a later date.


10 posted on 08/22/2004 12:29:15 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus; JackelopeBreeder

Some jail time might get employers to take note!


11 posted on 08/22/2004 12:29:15 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: coconutt2000

If Bush turns this country into a 3rd world country with his promotion of illegals fighting terrorism and worrying about security serve no usefull purpose.

They cry about funds to persue illegals but if they fined every business or individual the maximum in the law they could catch hiring illegals the fines would exceed their costs.


12 posted on 08/22/2004 12:30:46 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: NewRomeTacitus

This morning's paper was filled with an amazing amount of fish wrap, yes?


13 posted on 08/22/2004 12:32:10 PM PDT by LNewman
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To: JackelopeBreeder
You had me going there. I was posting the same article seconds behind you and got the purple "posting denied" screen. After being brutally edited yesterday I'm not the happy camper.
14 posted on 08/22/2004 12:33:28 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (http://www.numbersusa.com)
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To: TheLion
Agreed mandatory jail time for employing illegal aliens multiplied by each count..should strike home even to those with the most liberal mentality..
15 posted on 08/22/2004 12:39:18 PM PDT by Fast1
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Does the mandatory health care that kicks in next year in CA cover illegals? perhaps once hospitals start sending uncollectable bills to the employers they will stop hiring them.


16 posted on 08/22/2004 12:40:12 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: BurbankKarl

Good idea! Make employers responsible for all bills rung up by illegals prior to their deportation.


17 posted on 08/22/2004 12:43:21 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: JackelopeBreeder
The sweeps of Latino communities began in early June and, in a few short weeks, agents had apprehended 492 people. Immigrant rights groups immediately began pressuring Washington legislators to end the operation.

This mean that the Latino community and immigrant rights groups care more about assisting lawbreakers (of a specific skin color) than they do about enforcing US law. Fits right in with the "La Raza" and "Azatlan" aspirations.

18 posted on 08/22/2004 12:44:37 PM PDT by spodefly (This post meets the minimum daily requirements for cynicism and irony.)
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To: dalereed
"They cry about funds to persue illegals but if they fined every business or individual the maximum in the law they could catch hiring illegals the fines would exceed their costs."

California could get back in the black with strong enforcement and whopping fines!

19 posted on 08/22/2004 12:45:43 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Many times, instead of issuing a fine, the government works with the employers, teaching them how to avoid hiring illegal immigrants, he said.

Are they going to "work with" burglars to teach them how not to break into homes and steal goods next?
20 posted on 08/22/2004 12:45:55 PM PDT by lelio
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Cheap workers across the border - good. Cheap prescription drugs across the border - bad.


21 posted on 08/22/2004 12:49:02 PM PDT by Wolfie
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To: lelio

"Are they going to "work with" burglars to teach them how not to break into homes and steal goods next?"

The way the Justice dept. is acting they would probably teach them how to steal without getting caught, it might cost too much if they caught them.


22 posted on 08/22/2004 12:50:54 PM PDT by dalereed
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: NewRomeTacitus

Thanks for the ping AND the links, patriot!!!


24 posted on 08/22/2004 1:01:23 PM PDT by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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To: coconutt2000
I suspect there is a reason for this...

Ahhh, getting warmer coconutt2000. When in doubt...follow the money.

I'll give ya a big big hint. Ready?

Cheap Labor special interest groups donate thousands to get millions in return.

Right here, in this little story is the TRUTH behind the illegal invasion. All that talk about the one million new hispanic votes this Presidential election is a total smoke screen, a detour for those not paying attention.

25 posted on 08/22/2004 1:03:01 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

BTTT


26 posted on 08/22/2004 1:04:39 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Prime Choice

Hey, that guy in the tan shirt I think it my neighbor.

Thank God, I couldn't take one more night of his obnoxious salsa thumping stereo any more.

Do me a favor and take this contraption to Home Depot on Victory and Fallbrook Ave in West Hills, will ya?


27 posted on 08/22/2004 1:06:55 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA

I think we should close our borders, legalize the illegals that are already here... Be extremely harsh on new illegals, and then implement an immigration policy that functions as a brain drain on the rest of the world.

In other words, we increase immigration permits for entrepreneurs, inventors, skilled professionals, and scientists.

We drain the foreign brain trust and bring them to America. We outsource the low paying jobs, which means less incentive for unskilled illegals to sneak in here, and we focus on owning the top management of every major industry in the world.

Or something nefarious like that.


28 posted on 08/22/2004 1:12:56 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: JackelopeBreeder

The other day, I saw a scrawny illegal from a neighboring construction site get very hostile and threatening with one of our security guards, a man who could easily have mopped the pavement with him.
I was called on to translate.
The illegal said he thought the guard was trying to harrass his friends. I informed him that in Texas, private security officers have the same protection as policemen, that is, assaulting one is a first-degree felony and 10+ years in prison. The illegal laughed and said that no "huero" had the guts to fight back. I invited him to back it up and he slunk away.

In my considerable experience, this kind of racism and arrogance is more typical than not for illegals and their citizen-apologists, with the facts of Hispanic bigotry and arrogance laughingly concealed behind the targets' supposed ignorance of the Spanish language, with the liberal double standard helping quite a bit.
This is not to fault the illegals themselves, since racism and bigotry are the default position for ignorant and uneducated people all over the world. Add in a hierachical culture that mistakes kindness for submission and you have a formula for racially motivated hatred and contempt of the rawest kind.

The real fault lies with the educated activists and politicians who allow this to happen. Hispanic political activists are acutely aware of Mexican racism, and will even admit it if you know the language and hold their feet to the fire, but it is part of their racist creed that they are entitled to the benefits of this kind of hypocrisy.

Bush and the Democrats have joined forces to sell this country and degrade its people for cheap labor and cheaper votes respectively.

My advice: learn Spanish (it isn't hard), monitor and report the racism and bigotry of the Spanish language media, and let the invaders from "la raza superior" know that they are being watched by people who know what is really happening.


29 posted on 08/22/2004 1:13:15 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy ("Paz en nuestro tiempo, la paz de los muertos")
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To: coconutt2000
I think we should close our borders, legalize the illegals that are already here... Be extremely harsh on new illegals

Never happen, not in this climate. Our only hope is to put pressure on the GOP to strengthen the border. Use the Dems to increase enforcement on businesses that hire them, and point out the Al Qaeda that are slipping in over what isn't enforced. Hopefully in the middle will be trapped those who want to come back and forth over the border. Those that want to stay will anyways, they don't need to be legalized. The LAST thing in the world we want is that (again) because we won't get the other two things you mentioned and you'll end up making things way WAY worse.

I've got a way better idea than the ones you mentioned about importing people,

Reduce welfare eligability and time one can be on it.

Ditto for unemployment benefits,

Question conventional wisdom and push for a LOWERING of the minimum wage.

Lessen regulation on work hours and overtime allowed.

We have a whole lot of people here who aren't working to their capacity. As Rush would say, we've way to many "takers" and not enough "producers" in our nation. The constant importation of undercutting workers outside of the semi-socialist system will only result in turning America the beautiful into a 3rd World nation. We must fix the system, not bring people in from outside of it.

30 posted on 08/22/2004 1:21:26 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Bush and the Democrats have joined forces to sell this country and degrade its people for cheap labor and cheaper votes respectively.

They're importing poverty, disease, ignorance and dependence into America. They've sold their souls and turned their backs on their own country. Dare we call this treason?

31 posted on 08/22/2004 1:34:21 PM PDT by janetgreen (CALIFORNIA - free-for-all for ILLEGAL ALIENS)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

The Bush tacit amnesty plan in action.

Employers surely get the point: HIRE ILLEGALS


32 posted on 08/22/2004 1:47:08 PM PDT by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo Pres./Jeff Flake V.P. 2004!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Yeah, no reason for the Islamofascists to attack us and risk killing themselves, all they have to do is cross our porous southern border in sufficient numbers, take all of the jobs that "Americans don't want", have an advocacy group created to to keep the Feds cowering in a corner and before long this will be the Islamic Republic of America.


33 posted on 08/22/2004 1:53:42 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Goodnight Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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To: coconutt2000

"I think we should close our borders, legalize the illegals that are already here... "

No way!

Fine those that employ them and make life so miserable for the illegals that they leave of their own accord!


34 posted on 08/22/2004 2:03:41 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: dalereed

Too expensive... We legalize the ones here, make them pay taxes.

We take the money you want to spend on outing millions of illegals, and use that to strengthen our borders so we get no more illegals. We implement a tough and extremely harsh border patrol.

We reform our welfare laws so if a legalized alien is on welfare, with no prospects, we ship them out.

Or something like that. Some other people have some good ideas, but trying to oust millions of illegals is more expensive than accepting them, making them pay taxes, and keeping out new illegals.


35 posted on 08/22/2004 2:10:05 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: coconutt2000
"Too expensive... We legalize the ones here, make them pay taxes. "

Expensive! Expensive is letting them be rewarded for their unlawfulness. Just starting prosecutions of illegal aliens' employers would trigger a voluntary mass exodus. Secondary disincentives include denial of all possible services and restrictions on the billions of remittance dollars they send out of the country. No mass roundups, no martial law, no judicial expense; a literal fortune in taxpayer money saved.

The only obstacle is forcing lawmakers to turn a deaf ear to their best contributors pleas as they're being led away. My thoughts on that run along negotiated plea bargaining - make the politicians give up a few until the dogies are stampeding, then taper off. Their incentive lies in heading off investigations that could find them taking the perp walk after their boys.

36 posted on 08/22/2004 2:16:22 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (http://www.numbersusa.com)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
btt



37 posted on 08/22/2004 3:05:10 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat)
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To: coconutt2000
I suspect there is a reason for this... For some reason, I think the Feds want to know where the illegals are, while they ramp up a way for going after the illegals for deportation.

I can't stop laughing. That is the funniest thing I've heard.
That joke should win you the Last Comic Standing competition hand s down !!!

38 posted on 08/22/2004 3:38:34 PM PDT by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Good find!


39 posted on 08/22/2004 3:38:35 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
In Southern California, the numbers are even smaller. Thirteen companies received fines for violations of immigration laws in 2001 ---- and only two since.

It's clear, those in government have no desire to do anything about this chaos.

40 posted on 08/22/2004 3:39:42 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: citizen
The Bush tacit amnesty plan in action. Employers surely get the point: HIRE ILLEGALS

The message is clear.

41 posted on 08/22/2004 3:40:49 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: All
The department doesn't have agents exclusively dedicated to monitoring "traditional" workplaces such as hotels, restaurants or farms.

Not to worry. The SSA matches employer W-2 data to SSA master files. Employer W-2 data with bogus / stolen SSNs go into a suspense file. Most of the employers are "traditional" workplaces. But then.. the department doesn't really care, does it? As of 1998 there were some seven million suspect employees and thousands and thousands of employers. It's not a Bush thing. This is not Bush-bashing!

With the new on-line SSN validation system (SSNVS) coming in December we can ask "traditional" workplaces. et al. if they use the system and are their employees legal. Then we can "enforce" the law and "fine" the offenders by avoiding the lawbreakers.

ILLEGAL alien advocates are "troubled." Good chance the Republicrats will cancel the SSNVS -- or at least delay it for another eighteen years.

42 posted on 08/22/2004 3:52:53 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
This is the Number One thing that has to done to start the illegals self-deporting.

Exactly. Turn the lights off and the bugs will go away.

43 posted on 08/22/2004 4:09:19 PM PDT by Brownie74
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To: coconutt2000
legalize the illegals that are already here...

Every previous amnesty has just led to larger numbers of people crossing the fence, hoping to get in for the next one.

To make matters worse, the number of illegals in this country is far higher than the government wants to admit. They always go by the nebulous "8 to 12 million" from the 2000 census. The Border Patrol has caught roughly a million a year on our southern border since then -- but for every one they catch, four make it through. There are also several million here who entered on legal visas and conveniently forgot the expiration date. The true number of illegals is somewhere between 20 and 30 million.

Nail the employers to the wall, cut off all public benefits, and let it be known that if illegal status becomes known in the future it will result in immediate forfeiture of all assets followed by swift deportation.

Remember how so many Pakistanis went home after 9-11? I asked a Pakistani friend of mine about it and he gave me the real story. The Paks knew they would be under close scrutiny and quite a large number were here on fake passports and visas.

44 posted on 08/22/2004 4:09:53 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: coconutt2000
legalize the illegals that are already here...

Every previous amnesty has just led to larger numbers of people crossing the fence, hoping to get in for the next one.

To make matters worse, the number of illegals in this country is far higher than the government wants to admit. They always go by the nebulous "8 to 12 million" from the 2000 census. The Border Patrol has caught roughly a million a year on our southern border since then -- but for every one they catch, four make it through. There are also several million here who entered on legal visas and conveniently forgot the expiration date. The true number of illegals is somewhere between 20 and 30 million.

Nail the employers to the wall, cut off all public benefits, and let it be known that if illegal status becomes known in the future it will result in immediate forfeiture of all assets followed by swift deportation.

Remember how so many Pakistanis went home after 9-11? I asked a Pakistani friend of mine about it and he gave me the real story. The Paks knew they would be under close scrutiny and quite a large number were here on fake passports and visas.

45 posted on 08/22/2004 4:11:01 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Amnestry will only harm this country. We are not responsible for the surplus population of countries that choose to overbreed.


46 posted on 08/22/2004 5:31:47 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: CAPTAIN PHOTON
Two things:

  1. It's not a catapult. It's a trebuchet.
  2. If you think that trebuchet looks a marital aid, all I can say is that...well...you must not get out much.

Sakes...

47 posted on 08/22/2004 6:03:11 PM PDT by Prime Choice (Democrats. They want to have their cake and eat yours too.)
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To: coconutt2000
For some reason, I think the Feds want to know where the illegals are, while they ramp up a way for going after the illegals for deportation.

Wishful thinking, or do you really believe that?

48 posted on 08/22/2004 6:51:53 PM PDT by itsahoot (Sometimes the truth hurts)
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To: coconutt2000
I think we should close our borders, legalize the illegals that are already here... Be extremely harsh on new illegals, and then implement an immigration policy that functions as a brain drain on the rest of the world.

Been there done that, or don't you remember the "One Time Amnesty" that was to fix this problem?

49 posted on 08/22/2004 6:58:52 PM PDT by itsahoot (Sometimes the truth hurts)
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To: coconutt2000
Too expensive... We legalize the ones here, make them pay taxes.

The only reason certain businesses and individuals hired illegals in the first place is because they can pay them much less and don't provide workman's comp or pay in taxes on them. Illegals are brought in to exploit and that's all --- the minute they're legalized and paid legal wages and benefits, their employers will just bring in a new batch of illegals. The employers hiring illegals only do so to break every labor law that others are required to follow --- they need to start paying some hefty fines --- the financial incentives to bring in near-slaves has to end.

50 posted on 08/22/2004 8:34:23 PM PDT by FITZ
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