Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A 'filthy, obscene memory' or a heroic one? - battle over war crimes charges
MSNBC ^ | August 23, 2004 | Tom Curry

Posted on 08/23/2004 12:43:16 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Swift Boat Veterans For Truth Ad

..........And Kerry's testimony portrayed soldiers serving in Vietnam as either helpless victims, conscientious foes of the war, or potential psychopaths.

“The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped,” he said.

He predicted in that testimony that the American role in the war would be seen in 30 years as "a filthy, obscene memory" unless he and other vets could “search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbarous war” and help Americans “conquer the hate and the fear that have driven this country these last 10 years.”

He said, "We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service."

But “memories of that service” are precisely what is at stake in the furor over the Swift Boat Veterans book and ads.

Kerry built much of his campaign persona on the image of being a Vietnam combat veteran. The Democratic convention in Boston last month was a celebration of Kerry’s four months in Vietnam.

"We fought for this nation because we loved it,” he declared in accepting the nomination. “I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as president."

But Kerry never gave equal time — or any time at all in his ads — to his other identity as an anti-war crusader who said Americans had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads..."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: johnkerry; senatetestimony; veterans; vietnam; warcrimes
Kerry's World: Father Knows Best***.........As early as prep school, John Kerry showed signs that he shared his father's suspicions about America's cold war foreign policy. In a debate at St. Paul's in the late '50s, he argued that the United States should establish relations with Red China. During his junior year at Yale, he won a speech prize for an oration warning, "It is the specter of Western Imperialism that causes more fear among Africans and Asians than communism, and thus it is self-defeating." And, when he was tapped to deliver a graduation speech in 1966, he used the occasion to condemn U.S. involvement in Vietnam, intoning, "What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism."

........John Kerry, of course, did exactly this, first in Vietnam Veterans Against the War and eventually in the U.S. Senate. From the moment he arrived in Washington, Kerry promised that "issues of war and peace" would remain his passion. And, from the start, this meant that he would criticize Ronald Reagan's war against communism, especially when it was fought through proxies in the jungles of Central America. In 1985, he traveled to Nicaragua to meet with the Sandanista government, telling The Washington Post, "I see an enormous haughtiness in the United States trying to tell [the Sandinistas] what to do." Soon after his return, he pressured Congress into investigating the administration's illegal funding of the Contra rebels, opening a trail that culminated in the exposure of the arms-for-hostages deal with Iran. And, a few years later, in the late '80s, he repeated this success, launching an investigation that revealed that another of the administration's favorite anti-communists, the Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega, had been deeply enmeshed in drug-trafficking. Kerry was also skeptical enough of U.S. power that he voted against authorizing a popular intervention -- the Gulf war -- and opposed a 1995 resolution that would have allowed the arming of Bosnians. ........***

Vietnam...Today***..........But that claim has been proven false by the experience of the last three years, Smith argues. Vietnam's treatment of dissidents and religious minorities has gotten worse, not better, since diplomatic and trade relations with the United States were normalized in 2001. The Vietnam Human Rights Act "would be law right now if it hadn't been for Kerry," Smith says, "and some of those dissidents would be out of prison." By blocking the sanctions bill three years ago, Kerry ensured only that Hanoi's repression would continue unabated.

Will he block it again this year? The Kerry campaign hadn't replied to an inquiry as of late Friday, and Smith claims no inside knowledge. "But I know this much," he said the other day. "The best and brightest and bravest people in Vietnam are in prison, persecuted by the government for their opinions or their faith. And you don't do people who are suffering immeasurable cruelty any kindness by aiding a dictatorship."***

1 posted on 08/23/2004 12:43:17 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

This is the BEST "Bang for your political buck" - EVER!

Click the logo to donate to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

2 posted on 08/23/2004 12:46:56 PM PDT by Chieftain (Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

"The New Soldier" electronic adaptation can be found here

The New Soldier (the book that John Kerry doesn't want anyone to read)***Here's your chance to own a first edition copy of The New Soldier by John Kerry. Three copies availabe from $727.95 to $2,502.95 Or you can read the book at Winter

3 posted on 08/23/2004 12:47:52 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

John Kerry testifies before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, chaired by William Fulbright, in April 1971. Photo UPI

4 posted on 08/23/2004 12:50:06 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

5 posted on 08/23/2004 12:53:45 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

November 11, 2002 - John Kerry Speaks at the Vietnam Wall in Washington ***.....Today we come here to remember and to memorialize forever all that was Vietnam. In doing so we do not just read the names and remember those who gave their lives. We remember and celebrate what they were and remain part of -- a great nation committed to peace, individual liberty, freedom for all -- a nation which outlined in the writing of a constitution fundamental rights which belong to every one of its citizens and which we remember today are worth dying for. Today -- because of those engraved forever on these black panels - we celebrate rights and aspirations that are bigger than any individual and which each of us as individuals are willing to defend with life itself.

We celebrate the nobility of young Americans willing to go thousands of miles from home to fight for the notion that in the final measurement someone else's freedom was connected to our own.

It doesn't matter that politics got in the way. It doesn't matter that leaders remained wedded to their own confusion. Nothing -- not politics, not time, not outcome -- nothing will ever diminish one iota the contributions of these brothers and sisters, nothing can ever lessen the courage with which they waged war. Nothing reduces the magnitude of their sacrifice, nothing can take away the quality of their gift to their nation.....***

6 posted on 08/23/2004 12:59:21 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All
John Kerry's Voting Record on Second Amendment and Hunting Issues
7 posted on 08/23/2004 1:00:55 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: All
Byron York on Kerry's voting record***.........There are other indicators that Kerry's liberalism, when he is present for votes, matches or even exceeds Kennedy's and those of other liberal icons in the Senate. For example, Kerry has earned a lifetime rating of 93 from the liberal Americans for Democratic Action, which selects key votes each year and rates lawmakers according to a perfect liberal score of 100. Kerry's rating puts him in league with Kennedy, whose lifetime score is a slightly less-liberal 88, and other liberals like Vermont's Patrick Leahy, with 93, and California's Barbara Boxer, with 96.

Viewed from the other side of the ideological divide, Kerry has a lifetime rating of six from the conservative American Conservative Union, which uses a similar methodology to rate lawmakers according to a perfect conservative score of 100. Kerry's rating is the same as Leahy's and New York's Charles Schumer's, although it is slightly less liberal than Kennedy's lifetime rating of three.

On the issue of showing up for Senate votes, CQ found that Kerry's fellow senators running for president, John Edwards and Joseph Lieberman, also missed a significant number of votes, although far fewer than Kerry did. According to the CQ analysis, Edwards was present for 53 percent of the recorded votes in which the president took a position, while Lieberman was present for 45 percent.

Most senators were present for more than 90 percent of the votes.*****

8 posted on 08/23/2004 1:04:14 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: All
J.D. Hayworth: Who Needs Weapons? It’s good we didn’t listen to Kerry back in ’84."We are continuing a defense buildup that is consuming our resources with weapons systems that we don't need and can't use." — John Kerry in 1984 on the Reagan defense build-up.
9 posted on 08/23/2004 1:06:23 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
***.....In 1986, Libyan terrorists bombed a Berlin disco that killed one American GI and wounded 51. Mr. Reagan ordered an immediate retaliatory air strike. This response apparently angered Mr. Kerry, who said, "It is obvious that our response was not proportional to the disco bombing ... There are numerous other actions we can take, in concert with our allies, to bring significant pressure to bear on countries supporting or harboring terrorists." Sound familiar?

When Mr. Reagan sent Marines into Grenada in 1986, Mr. Kerry described it as "a bully's show of force." When Mr. Reagan was sending aid to anti-Communist forces in Nicaragua, Mr. Kerry called it "haughtiness." He also was one of the signatories in a "Dear Comandante" letter to Nicaraguan leader Daniel Ortega, asking the murderer to play nice with the United States in defiance of Reagan administration policy. .....***Kerry on Reagan

10 posted on 08/23/2004 1:08:59 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
From the article:

Will voters decide that none of this — neither Kerry's service nor his anti-war crusading — really matters very much today?

Voters ultimately decided Bill Clinton's draft-avoiding activities as a college and grad student were not a disability that would keep him from becoming president.

If voters don't judge Kerry harshly for alleging war crimes as a 27-year old veteran, then perhaps they wouldn't harshly judge President Bush as a 26-year-old, if he missed part of his National Guard service. The National Guard allegations were already in the press during the 2000 campaign and Bush won the election despite it.

This article starts out with an attempt to present another side to the issue, one that the general public does not know about, but then it degenerated into a comparison of Kerry's actions with the old Bush-avoided-real-military-service lie. But hopefully the careful reader will begin to understand why veterans of those years are so determined today to continue to present their message.

11 posted on 08/23/2004 1:10:46 PM PDT by CedarDave (Viet Nam Vet, USN Coastal Div. 13, Cat Lo, XO USCG patrol boat, 1968: No atrocities on my watch!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
How can any historian ignore statements like Kerry's made?

"In an interview on NBC's "Meet The Press" last Sunday, Kerry was asked about statements he made about Vietnam War atrocities during an interview with the same program in 1971, when he was a leader in the antiwar movement:"

"There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed, in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones, I conducted harassment and interdiction fire, I used .50-caliber machine guns which were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages," Kerry said in 1971.

Excerpt from CNN

11 posted on 08/22/2004 11:38:13 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)

12 posted on 08/23/2004 1:13:55 PM PDT by tuesday afternoon (Everything happens for a reason. - 40 and 43)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The "filthy, obscene memory" I have is of the VVAW and Kerry's testimony. My current nightmare is that he will be elected President.

13 posted on 08/23/2004 1:15:03 PM PDT by JimSEA ( "More Bush, Less Taxes.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
... But hopefully the careful reader will begin to understand why veterans of those years are so determined today to continue to present their message.

The truth is coming out.

14 posted on 08/23/2004 1:17:36 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: tuesday afternoon

The spokesman for Vietnam Veterans for Kerry said on Fox News Sunday (Aug 22, 2004) that Kerry stands by his statements to the Fulbright Committee.

15 posted on 08/23/2004 1:19:27 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: JimSEA

That would be a living nightmare.

16 posted on 08/23/2004 1:19:58 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
When Kerry first ran for office (and lost), according to The Crimson, he advocated the abolishment of the CIA because, he said, it was waging its own war in Vietnam.

How did he come by such "knowledge" w/only 3 months service there (actually 2 months since he had 1 month of training in Swiftboating)?

17 posted on 08/23/2004 1:22:55 PM PDT by Carolinamom (Guilty as charged, Your Honor; I DID contribute to the Swiftboat vets campaign ads.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Carolinamom

No doubt from his close association with Ted Kennedy and John Kennedy's speech writer, Adam Walinsky, who helped write his LIES spoken in front of the Fulbright Committee.

18 posted on 08/23/2004 1:39:40 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Carolinamom; All
CORRECTION to Post #18 ...John Kennedy's speech writer, Adam Walinsky, ..

Robert Kennedy's speech writer, Adam Walinsky,....

19 posted on 08/23/2004 1:43:04 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

I've read (sorry, don't remember where) that Kerry denied that Walinsky wrote his 1971 speech. BUT Walinsky admitted that he did. What number lie is this one?....I'm losing count.

20 posted on 08/23/2004 1:46:17 PM PDT by Carolinamom (Guilty as charged, Your Honor; I DID contribute to the Swiftboat vets campaign ads.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Carolinamom

It would be easier to count the truths.

If there ever was one.

21 posted on 08/23/2004 1:52:21 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

What's with Kerry's "uniform" in this photo? he's dressed in fatigues testifying before Congress.
I didn't think this was appropriate attire for an officer (let alone an elisted man) to appear this way in this kind of setting. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you had to wear dress uniform.

22 posted on 08/23/2004 1:53:45 PM PDT by afz400
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: afz400
He was showing his disdain.
23 posted on 08/23/2004 2:00:11 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: All
***.....Consider military issues in the world. China is consumed with reunifying Taiwan to the mainland. Beijing desires the economic advantages of Taiwan and certainly does not appreciate an immovable aircraft carrier next to the mainland. The U.S. government’s approach has been that of strategic ambiguity. Through this arrangement, the U.S. can pronounce its one-China policy and likewise continue selling arms to Taiwan. Our ambiguous approach has left Beijing unable to predict our reaction to an assault on Taiwan. Sun Tzu’s canonical Art of War, studied in Chinese military colleges, warns officers to “Know your enemy” before starting a conflict. The fact is, Beijing does not know how George W. Bush would react to an invasion of Taiwan.

The same is true in Iran and North Korea. Iranian and North Korean officials probably know their nuclear aspirations are dead if Bush gets reelected. They will toe the U.N. line just long enough to hear the election results of the only country in the world brave enough to lead a preemptive war to stop them. If we elect John Kerry in November, Tehran and Pyongyang will not feel the threat of military retaliations, and international pressure without that threat is unlikely to deter their nuclear buildup. Consider this response from C. Kenneth Quinones, a former United States diplomat who was in Pyongyang earlier this month for a Korean studies conference. He was quoted in The New York Times:

"The North Koreans made it very clear, politely, that they want Mr. Kerry to win the election. Nobody wants to move. North Koreans are going to play wait and see." Not to mention that John Kerry has proposed withdrawing some troops from Iraq within the first six months of his election. Some insurgents may now begin to also “wait and see.” .....***Avert Disaster; Elect a Cowboy _______________________________________________________ NOW read LINK in Post #1: "Kerry's World: Father Knows Best"

24 posted on 08/23/2004 2:02:53 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: tuesday afternoon

On Meet the Press back in March or April, when shown tape of his 1971 testimony, and asked by Russert about it, he gave a strange little chortle and said, "Well Tim, what I'd like to know is, where'd all that thick brown hair go?" Chortle are now entering the Twilight Zone.....

He then said he might have been a little over the top (or the edge?) but re-affirmed that he stands behind his statements of the time and will not disavow them or apologize.

25 posted on 08/23/2004 3:10:33 PM PDT by campfollower ( -- D.C. Rally on 9-12 - be there!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]


26 posted on 08/23/2004 4:15:10 PM PDT by independentmind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Tell me this: WHEN did Kerry alledgedly get shrapnel in his LEG (as constantly mentioned by his defenders).
27 posted on 08/23/2004 4:30:21 PM PDT by Carolinamom (Guilty as charged, Your Honor; I DID contribute to the Swiftboat vets campaign ads.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Carolinamom

Best I can tell, just recently. Maybe mama T. tossed him a grenade.

28 posted on 08/23/2004 4:31:46 PM PDT by snooker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Carolinamom
Tell me this: WHEN did Kerry alledgedly get shrapnel in his LEG (as constantly mentioned by his defenders).

Ah, that would be P.H. #2.

Unfit for Command Pg 77 -78 [Excerpt] Kerry claims to have been wounded on February 20, 1969, on the Dam Doi Canal, a canal running north from the Song Bo De River. In other reports, Kerry seems to place the location of th incident on the Cua Lon to the west. The operating report prepared by Kerry reflects "intense rocket and rife fire." In his biography, Kerry describes "blood running down the deck":

........Kerry felt a piece of hot shrapnel bore into his left leg. With blood running down the deck,......

The office of the accompanying boat, Rocky Hildreth, states that John Kerry's operating report (which Hildreth did not see until 2004) is false, and that the intense rockt and rife fire reported by Kerry never happened. It seems very unlikely that Kerry's boat could have experienced the heavy fire he reported without the accompanying boat hearing it. Hildreth also reports that there was no "blood on the deck," as Kerry claimed. Moreover, there was no damage to any boat from "the intense rifle and rocket fire" reported by Kerry. Van Odell, a sailor on PCF 93, recounts that when Kerry's crew came back that day, he heard them say that Kerry had faked a Purple Heart from his own M-79 wound. In addition, one of Kerry's crewmen, in a 2002 e-mail that he disowned after meeting with Kerry, questioned this Purple Heart and indicated that it was for a negligently self-inflicted M-79 grenade round like the one occuring at Cam Ranh Bay. [End Excerpt]

29 posted on 08/23/2004 11:02:59 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson