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Steve Gardner on Rush (w/Hedgecock)Now!

Posted on 08/26/2004 10:13:07 AM PDT by pookie18

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To: keysguy
It's going to be interesting to see how they try and spin this one.

Easy. Refuse to report it.

151 posted on 08/26/2004 11:10:46 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: pookie18

Gardner describes the "sampan incident" as a mess that happened because Lieutenant Kerry screwed up. It resulted in Gardner blasting a VC and the VC's child because they got too close for him to react in any other way. Had Kerry picked them up on the radar there would have been time to use normal interdiction prodecure from a safe distance.

Gardner gets to see that kid he blasted in his dreams for the rest of his life. Kerry gets to run for President while drawing a Senator's salary.

I don't know if any of this is true. God have mercy on Kerry's soul if it is.


152 posted on 08/26/2004 11:10:58 AM PDT by SBprone
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To: PISANO; pookie18; AGreatPer; mewzilla; Republican Red; dirtboy; All

The Sampan incident
Pat Buchanan (archive)


August 25, 2004


Steve Gardner will not forget the night as long as he lives. It was mid-January 1969. He was manning the double .50 caliber machine-gun mount in Lt. John Kerry's swift boat. "The PCF 44 boat, engines shut off, lay in ambush near the western mouth of the Cua Lon River," writes John O'Neill in his best-seller "Unfit for Command."

Kerry was in the pilothouse monitoring the radar. But, Gardner claims, Kerry had given his crew no heads-up when, suddenly, a sampan appeared right in front of them. The swift boat lights were thrown onto the sampan. Kerry, however, still had said nothing and was nowhere in sight. Gardner yelled to the sampan to stop. No reaction.

Then, as Gardner and crew thought they saw a man on the sampan holding or reaching for a weapon, they cut loose with the machine guns.

But when the crew boarded the sampan, they found no man on the boat, just a woman clutching a child no more than 2 years old and the shattered body of a boy. The man who had been piloting the sampan was believed to have been blasted into the water.

Here was a tragedy of war. But it is the contention of O'Neill and Gardner that Kerry bears responsibility for the boy's death. Had he been on the radar, he could have seen the sampan at a distance and ordered the crew to fire a warning shot. A slow-moving sampan was no threat to a swift boat that could shoot it to pieces from half a mile away. Nor could a sampan run away from a swift boat. While that child was killed in the fog of war, writes O'Neill, there should have been an inquiry:

"The inquiry would have focused on why the sampan was not detected early and why normal measures like a flare or small-caliber warning shot were not used. To be fair, it is likely that the purpose of such an inquiry would not be to fix blame on anyone, but to avoid future miscalculation. And the major questions would have been: Where was Kerry? Why was there no warning? Why was a gunner's mate making the critical life-and-death decision instead of the officer in charge?"

Kerry has offered his own versions of the sampan incident.

In one version, Kerry gave an order "to fire a few warning shots," but the crew opened up with machine guns. In "Tour of Duty" by Douglas Brinkley, Kerry explains that, because of the after-dark curfew, the river was a free-fire zone and, in some instances, boats had gotten close to U.S. patrol craft to throw bombs into their pilothouses. Yet the sampan had gone past the Swift Boat before the guns opened up.

We will probably never know exactly what happened that night. But a Boston Globe biography of Kerry cites a Navy report of a Jan. 20, 1969, "incident" involving an attack by Kerry's swift boat on a sampan:

"(W)hile Kerry said in a 2003 interview that he wasn't sure when the boy in the sampan was killed, a Navy report says a similar-sounding incident took place on January 20, 1969. The crew of No. 44 'took sampan under fire, returned to capture 1 woman and a small child, one enemy KIA (Killed in Action) ... believe four occupants fled to beach or possible KIA.'"

Was this the action in which Kerry was involved that night on the Cuan Lon River, the Globe asked his campaign. It did not respond.

Writes O'Neill, "The Commander Coastal Survey for Vietnam ... Quarterly Evaluation Report of March 29, 1969, states '... 20 January PCFs 21 and 44 operating in An Xuyen Province ... engaged the enemy with a resultant GDA of one VC KIA (BC) (body count), four VC KIA (EST) and two VC CIA (VQ 810650/44)."

In this report, writes O'Neill, the sampan incident is depicted as "Kerry's victory -- killing five imaginary Viet Cong, capturing two Viet Cong in action (an exaggeration of the mother and the babe in arms who were actually rescued from the sampan) and omitting the dead child."

On getting word of five dead V.C. at Kerry's hands with two more captured, Adm. Roy Hoffman sent his congratulations. "Upon learning of what Kerry had actually done," says O'Neill, "Hoffman recently expressed his contempt for Kerry as a liar, false warrior and fraud." As have other former Kerry commanders and comrades.

Surely the contempt the Swift Boat veterans have for Kerry is in part due to his slandering them as war criminals before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And we shall probably never know for certain the full truth about the firing that night on the sampan.

But Kerry should be asked whether he wrote a report saying five VC were killed and two captured, when Steve Gardner, the man who fired the guns, says one man was blown overboard, one child was killed, and only a baby and its terrified mother were taken into custody.


153 posted on 08/26/2004 11:11:28 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (One good term deserves another! Take W-04....Across America!)
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To: Right_in_Virginia

Yes he was his gunner. But was he facing John Kerry at all times? If he wasn't facing John Kerry at all times he can't say he served with him.

Then there is this.

Recently I have read that John Kerry has told the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that he was not referring to them in his senate speech in 1971, but to all the other Vietnam War veterans.

Well, we should apply the same standard to this that Kerry and his news pals used, that is;

That he did not serve in their tent, unit, team, foxhole, aircraft, patrol unit, or squad so therefore he cannot know what these men were doing or not doing.

Therefore, because by his own admission that by these rules above the SBVT couldnot have known, he should admit that everything he stated about Vietnam War veterans is a lie, as he had no first hand knowledge.

He did not serve with them!

And most will say they are glad that he didn't!


154 posted on 08/26/2004 11:12:53 AM PDT by stockpirate (Real issue is Kerry attended meeting where VVAW discussed killing 7 US Senators! 11/71)
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To: keysguy

Thanks for posting this guys and for commenting. I knew I would find this info here. I heard Stephen Gardner on the show with Roger today.


155 posted on 08/26/2004 11:12:54 AM PDT by NEBO (GIVE APPEASEMENT A CHANCE! ~ His Ketchupness John Kerry ~)
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To: tractorman
...he didn’t know and didn’t care.

Even us deskbound vets are used to abuse.

156 posted on 08/26/2004 11:13:24 AM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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This saddens me, really, and not in a Tom Daschle sort of way. I DONT like to "hate" my opponent. Really I don't. I'd like to think that "the other guy" simply believes differently than I, that he wants good things for all, etc, yadda yadda. I NEVER hated Clinton, still don't, even though I think he is slimy.

Stories like this, which I tend to believe because so many of them are coming out now, and it seems to corroborate with the evidence, make me dislike this fellow Kerry, which is too bad, since I would not like to hate the potential President. I know the Liberals LIVE for HATING Bush, but I would not ever want to be like THEM.

Stories like this make me sad then. Perhaps, as a man, he has changed since then, and I know alot of people did things over there that they are not proud of. I guess though, that not many of them came back and built a political career off of those same things.. Hmmmm..

Sucks to think that this guy might be rewarded for these deeds by becoming CIC... Heck, makes me wish for Howard Dean.

157 posted on 08/26/2004 11:14:46 AM PDT by Paradox (Occam was probably right.)
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To: Cboldt

And this incident has nothing to do with any of the military awards disputes.


61 posted on 08/26/2004 10:36:06 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To hell if it doesn't. Kerry admited in Testimony before congress in 71 that HE wrote many after action reports and ADMITTED inflating the details. If the after action reports were used by the Chain of Command to decide if Metals were to be awarded it is absolutely relevent.

Keep in mind that it was John F'n Kerry's own Reports that HE USED to get the first Purple Heart, AFTER HIS FIRST CO refused it, Kerry waited until that CO was rotated out and someone not familiar with the event was assigned that post.
Kerry then resubmited the request and it was approved.


158 posted on 08/26/2004 11:14:46 AM PDT by Area51 (Diapers and Politicians need to be changed-For the same reason)
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment

While I would not for a minute denigrate their service to our country,I think Skerry's"Band of Brothers"see"Visions of Sugar Plums Dancing in Their Heads"if they can help Skerry get elected POTUS!!It's"PayBack Time"(as Dick Cheney would say"Big Time"!!!!!!!!!!!!!


159 posted on 08/26/2004 11:15:15 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: pookie18
Hopefully he isn't a PTSD vet on VA drug rehab....

My guess is if he followed Kerry's orders the left will spin it all onto him....
He will bear the brunt of an vicious attack.....hopefully those on the conservative side
who benefit from his forthcomingness will not abandon him in his need ....

They will come for him....like Raptors....

God Bless him and sustain for coming forward...and may God protect him from the evil that will surely come his way...and give him strength and peace...and take away his nightmares and feelings of self loathing if he still has them for the act Kerry lead him into...

Hang in there bro....they will give up after a season...and look for others to try and debunk may they grow weary and just give in....

Lord please break John Kerry down...make him confess his evil against his nation, our veterans
and MIAs and POWs ..break him down and lead him away from our nations politics and from doing further damage to our nation...one you established in your name...
160 posted on 08/26/2004 11:17:01 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: rolling_stone
Do we know for sure they were VC? They could have been on either side unless it came out later in questioning the survivors.

Per Gardner they searched the sanpan after and found a large cach of weapons, rice and other supplies

161 posted on 08/26/2004 11:17:10 AM PDT by tophat9000
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To: mathluv

Wouldn't it be schweet if the surviving widow ("woman and baby") could be located and brought to the media?


162 posted on 08/26/2004 11:17:12 AM PDT by DCPatriot
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To: airstrike; All
I've heard Gardner on Scarborough (with Hurley), via an internet stream from a NC station and with Michael Savage.

This particular incident establishes John Kerry as a negligent babykilling coverup artist. It cuts to the core of his character. Gardner's account really needs some airtime - with others that were on that boat that are in Kerry's camp.

The thing I really like about Gardner is Kerry could never buy him off over the years. God Bless him... he's been carrying around a terrible thing for so many years...

163 posted on 08/26/2004 11:17:26 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (CEO, VRWC: When you think treason, don't think Benedict Arnold - think JOHN 'Buzzard' KERRY!)
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To: Area51

Kerry writing a false report, stating that he killed VC he never killed, disqualifies him from being President. It would be fatal to his candidacy, if the fricking media would report it.


164 posted on 08/26/2004 11:18:01 AM PDT by tomahawk
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To: Cboldt
Kerry the liar needs to apologize to the Viet Nam Vets.
165 posted on 08/26/2004 11:18:20 AM PDT by pke
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To: Cboldt
These were civilians

Obviously. However, civilians did do some dirty work because they could infiltrate more easily.

What was a family doing on the river at night?

One side tells me they were VC running supplies, food not necessarily weapons.

The other side tells me maybe they were innocent people caught in the war trying to get a food supply to their village. VC could have taken their food.

My only point was that they should not have been reported as enemy unless they were sure about that.

166 posted on 08/26/2004 11:20:03 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment

Just Hurley and he gets even the preliminary facts wrong.


167 posted on 08/26/2004 11:21:00 AM PDT by saveliberty (Liberal= in need of therapy, but would rather ruin lives of those less fortunate to feel good)
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To: mathluv

the 2 VC taken into custody were a woman and baby.



107 posted on 08/26/2004 10:48:51 AM PDT by mathluv (Protect my grandchildren's future. Vote for Bush/Cheney '04.)
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There has got to be a record of who those people were.
Someone INTERVIEW THEM. Watch the Kerry crew crap their britches over that.


168 posted on 08/26/2004 11:21:00 AM PDT by Area51 (Diapers and Politicians need to be changed-For the same reason)
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To: Dog Gone
I don't think they can get away with that. Limbaugh has the largest audience of any talk show in the US. And if Hannity does any type of flollow-up at all and then picks it up on his night time show on FNC it's all over. They won't be able to ignore it for long.
169 posted on 08/26/2004 11:22:29 AM PDT by keysguy (Trust the media as far as you can throw them)
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To: Larry Lucido

Yikes, that sounded threatening to me. Maybe, Kerry can get Bush to agree to sic the Secret Service guys who used to do the dirty work for Klinton.


170 posted on 08/26/2004 11:23:51 AM PDT by zerosix
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To: Paradox

I'd like to believe in Santa but....


171 posted on 08/26/2004 11:24:27 AM PDT by keysguy (Trust the media as far as you can throw them)
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To: bandleader

Or have they've already been paid off?....How many of them received medals they didn't deserve? .............Has he threatened them that if they don't stay behind him, if will all come out?


172 posted on 08/26/2004 11:24:50 AM PDT by hoosiermama (prayers for all)
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To: Area51
CS: And this incident has nothing to do with any of the military awards disputes.

Area51: To hell if it doesn't. Kerry admited in Testimony before congress in 71 that HE wrote many after action reports and ADMITTED inflating the details.

Well, to that extent, sure. I was trying to make the simple point that the January 20 sampan incident did not result in any of Kerry's military awards. His 1st PH was for action on December 2, 1968. His 2nd PH was for action on February 20, 1969. His Silver Star was for action on February 28, 1969. Hist 3rd PH and his Bronze Star were for action on March 13, 1969. You will notice that none of those dates is January 20, 1969.

173 posted on 08/26/2004 11:25:30 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Right_in_Virginia
..."AWOL" story...

I was busy when Hedgecock mentioned something about Kerry missing time as a ready reserve. Anyone know about this?
174 posted on 08/26/2004 11:26:37 AM PDT by BJClinton (I, too, am a Football-Fan-American)
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To: Area51

Also, I think the timing was messed up also, in that the first PH wasn't approved until either right before or after the third PH was submitted. He had to go back and get the first one papered over so he then had his three....


175 posted on 08/26/2004 11:27:25 AM PDT by Bush_Democrat (Now EX-Democrat!)
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To: RoseofTexas

The Band of Brothers are forbidden to speak to media unless they are given permission from Kerry. A FACT that I read.


176 posted on 08/26/2004 11:27:36 AM PDT by Carolinamom (John Kerry , the Scott Peterson politician.)
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To: keysguy

I will be very surprised if this account is mentioned in any city newspaper tomorrow. In order for this to get any traction, it's going to have to get on television. The mainstream media avoided talking about the Swifties until the story overwhelmed them.


177 posted on 08/26/2004 11:28:35 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Cboldt

173 posted on 08/26/2004 11:25:30 AM PDT by Cboldt
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Understood.


178 posted on 08/26/2004 11:29:01 AM PDT by Area51 (Diapers and Politicians need to be changed-For the same reason)
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To: keysguy
I'd like to believe in Santa but....

Oh, C'mon, whatcha gonna do, tell me that he doesn't exist? Puhlease :)

Btw, love the Keyes, been stuck in Broward for far too long, I need a vacation..

179 posted on 08/26/2004 11:29:15 AM PDT by Paradox (Occam was probably right.)
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To: joesnuffy
"Hopefully he isn't a PTSD vet on VA drug rehab...."

Hey, I resemble that remark! By the grace of God, I have been clean and sober for 20 yrs. BUT, still got the PTSD daemon which never goes away.

Don't worry, the VA hospital is the safest place to get away from Kerry. He wouldn't dare set foot in one and survive (either the other Vets would waste him, or he'd be involuntary committed).
180 posted on 08/26/2004 11:29:23 AM PDT by Stashiu ( Yeah, I am a Vietnam Vet, not a War Criminal.)
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To: Bush_Democrat

Also, I think the timing was messed up also, in that the first PH wasn't approved until either right before or after the third PH was submitted. He had to go back and get the first one papered over so he then had his three....



175 posted on 08/26/2004 11:27:25 AM PDT by Bush_Democrat (Now EX-Democrat!)
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The pentagon ought retract the first PH based on John F'nn Kerry's OWN book "Tour of Duty" Where he admits to not being shot at yet and that date was 9 days afer the incident that he applied for the first PH.

His own words prove he is a fraud!


181 posted on 08/26/2004 11:31:38 AM PDT by Area51 (Diapers and Politicians need to be changed-For the same reason)
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To: Cboldt
We have not seen the paperwork behind this PH citation, and don't know who approved it.

Thomas Wright was one of John F. Kerry's fellow Swift boat officers in Vietnam. Since Wright outranked Kerry, he was Kerry's sometime boat group Officer-in-Charge, so Wright had occasion to observe Kerry’s behavior and attitudes, and the circumstances surrounding his early departure from the war zone. The intervening years have not dimmed his memories.

“I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders,” recalls Wright. “He had a different view of leadership and operations. Those of us with direct experience working with Kerry found him difficult and oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives. I believed that overall responsibility rested squarely on the shoulders of the OIC or OTC in a free-fire zone. You had to be right (before opening fire). Kerry seemed to believe there were no rules in a free-fire zone and you were supposed to kill anyone. I didn’t see it that way.”

It got to a point where Wright told his divisional commander he no longer wanted Kerry in his boat group, so he was re-assigned to another one. “I had an idea of his actions but didn’t have to be responsible for him.” Then Wright and like-minded boat officers took matters into their own hands. “When he got his third Purple Heart, three of us told him to leave. We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11. Kerry didn’t manipulate the system, we did.”

Call sign: Boston strangler

182 posted on 08/26/2004 11:32:16 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: demlosers

According to UNFIT, Kerry was in the wheelhouse and didn't come out until Gardner fired. Gardner kept waiting for Kerry to order the firing but had to fire when the small boat was upon them...Kerry wasn't paying attention to his job, something we are even seeing today. He's lazy.


183 posted on 08/26/2004 11:32:41 AM PDT by Carolinamom (John Kerry , the Scott Peterson politician.)
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To: Cboldt
I understand your point. This is a completely different incident from the others that have been previously discussed. If Gardner just found out about the lies in the after action report six weeks ago, this one might not even have made it into "Unfit for Command." My copy hasn't arrived yet, so I am not sure if it was covered in the book or not. The Swifties probably have more of these discrepancies that will be released every few days until the election.
184 posted on 08/26/2004 11:33:01 AM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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To: Dog Gone

We definitely need FNC to lead the way on this one.


185 posted on 08/26/2004 11:33:13 AM PDT by keysguy (Trust the media as far as you can throw them)
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To: ravingnutter; All

Basically they wanted him out...


186 posted on 08/26/2004 11:34:19 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: Paradox

The problem is when you live here, unless you are rich, all you do is work.


187 posted on 08/26/2004 11:34:29 AM PDT by keysguy (Trust the media as far as you can throw them)
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To: tractorman
Kerry will say he only brought his butler and not his gardener.

LOL! I hope so because his own biography 'Tour of Duty ' Stephen Gardner graces 12 pages...

188 posted on 08/26/2004 11:34:45 AM PDT by demlosers
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To: Use It Or Lose It

Speaking of radio, shouldn't they at least be on Err America ? Or are they even on the air still ?


189 posted on 08/26/2004 11:34:45 AM PDT by UsnDadof8 (Since Oct 16, 2002 as BSunday)
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To: Cboldt
The media is just as corrupt as Kerry is.

The media is much worse. They are also enablers of frauds such as Kerry, Clinton, Gore, and so many others.

190 posted on 08/26/2004 11:35:49 AM PDT by Radix (John Kerry is finally not going to do a 180, especially when it comes to releasing his form 180!)
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To: sissyjane
The truth!
191 posted on 08/26/2004 11:36:08 AM PDT by f zero
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To: KevinDavis

That's it.


192 posted on 08/26/2004 11:36:14 AM PDT by keysguy (Trust the media as far as you can throw them)
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To: Dog Gone
The mainstream media avoided talking about the Swifties until the story overwhelmed them.

Margaret Warner, PBS News Hour, provided comic relief last night when she said to her panelists that the story (bad paraphrase) had become newslife-overwhelming in the three weeks since its appearance [picture me falling over laughing here]. Then she went on to discuss anything but the actual charges by Swiftees against Kerry.

193 posted on 08/26/2004 11:37:01 AM PDT by GretchenM (A country is a terrible thing to waste. Vote Republican.)
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To: hoosiermama
Or have they've already been paid off?....How many of them received medals they didn't deserve? .............Has he threatened them that if they don't stay behind him, if will all come out?

I think the Swifties are prepared for any consequenses, including losing medals that resulted from Kerry's false reports.

194 posted on 08/26/2004 11:37:46 AM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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To: Registered; dennisw

See pic in post #96 of two swift boats in formation ... Registered, can you give this the "served with" / "didn't serve with" markup as was done with the fighter jets?


195 posted on 08/26/2004 11:37:46 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Kerry was in the Senate???)
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To: pookie18; All

For anyone who missed Kerry's testimony before Congress in 1971, it's being run again tonight on cspan, 8:05 ET.

Will post this on a few of the Kerry threads, to spread the word.


196 posted on 08/26/2004 11:38:34 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: KevinDavis
Basically they wanted him out...

That's what I gathered...

197 posted on 08/26/2004 11:38:37 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: DCPatriot
Wouldn't it be schweet if the surviving widow ("woman and baby") could be located and brought to the media?

I don't think the Vietnamese would do anything to hurt Kerry.

198 posted on 08/26/2004 11:39:20 AM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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To: BJClinton

Kerry was in the reserves after he came back from Vietnam, but apparently, never reported for duty. (*Shock*)

Let's see his payroll and dental records!


199 posted on 08/26/2004 11:39:42 AM PDT by Right_in_Virginia
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To: airstrike

I heard Gardner on some of the TV channels over the weekend. They tried to shout him down with someother vet that wouldn't address what Gardner was saying. It sounds like he was more effective in this forum.

Thurlow has been put on the defensive because his medal report, (obtained at the time Kerry obtained his) records enemy fire.

nikos


200 posted on 08/26/2004 11:42:14 AM PDT by nikos1121
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