Democratic presidential nominee U.S. Senator John Kerry (news - web sites) (D-MA) speaks during a campaign stop at Anoka Technical College in Anoka, Minnesota, August 26, 2004. REUTERS/Brian Snyder US ELECTION
Posted on 08/26/2004 10:34:18 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
ANOKA, Minn. - Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) on Thursday lashed out at "the lie that's been put out there" about his Vietnam War service as Republicans and Democrats fiercely debated his military record, sensing a political advantage in keeping the issue alive.
The debate started when a group of critics, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, raised questions about the Democratic presidential candidate's command during the Vietnam War. It has escalated into a tit-for-tat advertising war amid accusations from each campaign that the other side is improperly using independent groups to front their attacks.
Responding to a question at a forum, Kerry said, "All the guys who were with me on my boat, all the guys who were with me in the specific action where they could see it and do it, absolutely document what I said. And as you've seen in the last few days, you're now learning about the lie that's been put out there and how it's been put out there.'
Kerry pointed out that the Navy documented his actions 35 years ago, compared to the recollections of veterans decades later. "Those documents stand, and I am absolutely telling you the God's honest truth about what happened and what took place over there. And so are the other people who've laid it out correctly over the last couple days," he said.
In a television ad, Kerry's campaign hit President Bush (news - web sites) for waging a "smear" campaign by failing to denounce the Swift Boat Veterans' accusations that Kerry didn't deserve his five Vietnam medals.
Bush's 2000 primary campaign rival, Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., was the star of the Democrats' new ad, which shows the senator telling Bush in 2000 "you should be ashamed" for standing by as a "fringe veterans group" questioned McCain's patriotism.
McCain, who supports Bush's re-election, said Thursday that he didn't want the Democrats using his old statements against the president — and the Kerry campaign pulled the ad. But McCain isn't happy about the swift boat veterans' anti-Kerry ads, either.
McCain had called on Bush to condemn those ads.
Kerry and running mate John Edwards (news - web sites) have accused Bush of being behind "lies and smears" by the group. Bush's campaign has denied being behind the swift boat group, whose major financial backer is a Texas Republican with ties to Bush aides.
As the claims of improper coordination flew, one of Bush's top lawyers resigned from the Bush campaign Wednesday, a day after disclosing that he had given legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans. At the same time, Republicans raised questions about Democratic lawyers working for other organizations.
The Bush-Cheney campaign hit back at Kerry in a sharply worded letter that criticized Kerry's actions after he returned from war, including his testimony before Congress that U.S. soldiers were committing atrocities in Vietnam.
"You accused your fellow veterans of terrible atrocities and, to this day, you have never apologized," said the letter, drafted by the campaign and signed by several veterans. "Even last night, you claimed to be proud of your postwar condemnation of our actions."
Bush has criticized the Swift Boat Veterans group's first commercial and all other outside group attack ads — many of which have targeted his own re-election. But Democrats want him to explicitly condemn the Swift Boat Veterans ad.
At Bush's ranch Wednesday near Crawford, Texas, former Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga., who lost three limbs in Vietnam, tried but failed to deliver a letter to the president from nine Senate Democrats that asked Bush to "recognize this blatant attempt at character assassination and publicly condemn it."
The Bush-Cheney campaign Wednesday chastised Kerry for saying all military service should be held above reproach, while he questions Bush's military record.
"You said in 1992, 'We do not need to divide America over who served and how.' Yet you and your surrogates continue to criticize President Bush for his service as a fighter pilot in the National Guard," the campaign said.
The current stage of the battle may have negated any advantage accrued by either side, Republican pollster Neil Newhouse said.
Newhouse said Bush had the advantage when the debate centered on Kerry's actions in Vietnam because the questions raised doubts about Kerry's credibility. Now that the debate has shifted to questions about campaign tactics and political insiders, Newhouse said, Bush lost his advantage.
"Bush gained early, now it's a wash," he said.
William Benoit, professor at the University of Missouri-Columbia, said McCain, who was a prisoner of war during Vietnam, erased any early advantage that Bush might have had.
McCain has called the anti-Kerry advertisement "dishonest" and "dishonorable."
"When Senator McCain comes out and says he's a hero ... how many Republicans are going to reject it?" Benoit said. "I just think Senator McCain has neutralized that issue in large part."
Democratic presidential nominee U.S. Senator John Kerry (news - web sites) (D-MA) speaks during a campaign stop at Anoka Technical College in Anoka, Minnesota, August 26, 2004. REUTERS/Brian Snyder US ELECTION
With all due respect to Benoit, what world is he living in?
U.S. President George W. Bush (news - web sites) speaks at a campaign rally in Las Cruces, New Mexico, August 26, 2004. Bush was introduced to speak here by former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque US ELECTION
I repeat once again , Look out for Mccain, he cant be trusted. He helped write the the Bill allowing 527's.
McCain is playing both sides of this fence.
Kerry complians of the lies put out there, We have to decide who is lying. I vote with the Swiftee's
I agree about McCain.
If you notice, McCain will not ever discuss specifics about his involvement in the Savings and Loan debacle with Keating and the Keating Five.
I'm waiting for the book from Charlie if Charlie ever writes his side.
"When Senator McCain comes out and says he's a hero ... how many Republicans are going to reject it?"
Here is one Republican that rejects it. Senator McCain does not have much credibility as far as I am concerned.
Well this is interesting. First time I've seen this from the Bush Campaign itself. If Kerry was, as rumored, planning to get air time on 60 minutes to "apologize", this makes it look like he's bending to their demand. Smart...
mcCains problem is McCain. He wrote the bill that caused this mess and he wants the President to fix it. bush should tell McCain to chill out, go on TV and tell the nation that the Demorats have so prostituted this bill that as a standing Senator he can no longer support this piece of crap legislation.
He should then ask the President to sign a bill repealing this.
"William Benoit, professor at the University of Missouri-Columbia, said McCain, who was a prisoner of war during Vietnam, erased any early advantage that Bush might have had.
McCain has called the anti-Kerry advertisement "dishonest" and "dishonorable."
"When Senator McCain comes out and says he's a hero ... how many Republicans are going to reject it?" Benoit said. "I just think Senator McCain has neutralized that issue in large part."
What world are these guys living in? They think because the media love McCain the GOP does!
They just keep hoping that this story is going to go away but it isn't!
...W speaking: My dad's a real war hero. John Kerry, you're no war hero.
I don't believe John Kerry ever fought on our side!
He may have worn a uniform, he may have shown up, but he was always out for John F. Kerry as evidenced by his phony record and petition for discharge from Viet Nam and the service.
Perhaps we should write to McCain and DEMAND that he ask Kerry to have the 527 remove the ad about him/Bush.
There is NO WAY that any man, especially ANY COMMANDER in our service would lie in order to win medals, shorten his tour or duty in doing so, and return home to crush the spirit of those who served alongside him.
MAKE KERRY GIVE OUT THE NAMES OF THOSE WHO RAPED AND CUT OFF HEADS.
MAKE KERRY ANNOUNCED PUBLICALLY THAT HE WANTS HIS PICTURE THAT HANGS IN THE COMMUNIST MUSEUM OF HISTORY< WHEREIN HE IS CALLED A HERO TO THE COMMUNISTS FOR HIS ANTI-WAR ACTIVITIES< demand THAT THE COMMUNIST GOVENMENT OF VIETNAM TAKE THAT PICTURE DOWN!
MAKE KERRY EXPLAIN WHY HE ATTENDED A MEETING WHEREIN THE ASSASINATION OF AMERICAN SENATORS (and I believe, Henry Kissinger, as well) WAS DISCUSSED.
AND MAKE KERRY DISAVOW that he TOOK LAUNDERED MONEY FROM THE COMMUNIST CHINESE GOVERNMENT FOR HIS LAST SENATE RACE.
MAKE KERRY DENOUNCE COMMUNIST CHINA.
MAKE KERRY DENOUNCE THE VIETNAM GOVERNMENT.
MAKE KERRY STATE THAT COMMUNISM IS A DEVASTATING FORM OF GOVERNING ANY PEOPLES.
Otherwise...I stand with you, FReeper Prost1, Kerry did not fight for us, instead, HE USED OUR MILITARY SERVICE TO ADVANCE HIS OWN PERSONAL RESUME.
Fess up KERRY----Is it POSSIBLE (judging now from the votes in your entire senate career), ARE YOU A COMMUNIST? And if you say NO, EXPLAIN what you DISLIKE about communism.
RATs are whistling past Kerry's graveyard. Just because Kerry says Bush is smearing him...when Bush has nothing to do with the Swift Boat vets...who were Kerry's band of warriors thirty years ago...Kerry doesn't gain the high ground. This analysis is ludicrous and for the RATs...a last ditch effort to change the subject away from Kerry's career of lies, ineptness, and waffling. The man is weak and has no integrity, no core set of beliefs. God forbid he should ever be President.
Hey, McLame, how would you know if the Swiftees are being dishonest?
Which of kerry's Swift boats did you serve aboard?
Oh, you didn't? Then you should have just STFU.
Gardner suggested that the few Swift Boat vets supporting Kerry may be hoping for jobs in a Kerry administration...or money.
You have to ask? He's an ivory tower academic. Most likely a tower with no window to the outside world.
I'm curious about why he came to hate the Republicans so much, now culminating in his obviously rabidly hatred towards Bush. I don't think he is capable of saying one nice thing about Bush no matter what. Bush, on the other hand, said Kerry's service was honorable and noble or whatever.
Something runs deep here. What is his hatred really about?
I don't want to get into how much of a communist sympathizer he may or may not have been. His lifestyle is the antithesis of communism.
The only communists who had anything, and it wasn't much by our standards, were the top guys. The rest were crammed into apartment blocks and had to stand in line just for bread, never mind meat and the other stuff.
Did his family harbor some deep-seated hatred of something?
I'm just curious. Bush, whatever faults he may possess, does not come across as being hateful, except toward Saddam and the terrorists.
The democrats-the children-are not yet governed by rules of ethical and moral behavior-they are spoiled because somewhere along the line-the parents were quiet when they should have been noisy.
The democrats use any means to win, do not understand the foundations of moral and ethical rules of law, rebell against those rules, are subject to the whims of friends that give them cookie money in return for a loyalty to nefarious and often down right un-American objectives, and perhaps, worst of all, though these children see what their parents believe in, and on some level know it is good, they cannot resist the temptation to to acquaint themselves with the more outrageous, 'fun' way of doing things, shock value appeals to them and good character is boring....down right 'parental'.
These children, even grown up age-wise now (to about teenage level), are often in positions of power, but are still mental midgets in the ethical, moral and visionary departments.
Stuck in the 60's teenage mentality, and love to call everyone stupid but themselves. As all teenagers do.
It used to be democrats and republicans differed in the means to achieve equally worthy goals in most cases. Now, they differ in three deep ways- they do not care about good character, in once held noble objectives and the means of attaining said objectives has become a constant free for all for them. Making every thing difficult to bridge.
Kerry said, "All the guys who were with me on my boat, all the guys who were with me in the specific action where they could see it and do it, absolutely document what I said.
Here is what Gardner said:
1. Gardner served more time with Kerry than any other crewman under his command--ever. This was 2 1/2 months out of Kerry's 4 months and 12 days in combat. He was ON THE BOAT as well.
2. Kerry was the worst skipper and officer the man ever served under. Kerry fell asleep at the radar scope in the pilot house or he was negligent in his duty to warn them of an approaching Sandpan while their boat was sitting with its motor off. When the Vietcong-supporter Sandpan caught them by surprise, Gardner had no choice but to fire on a man aiming an SKS rifle at him. During this exchange, Garner admits he inadvertantly shot a small boy crouched in front of the man who was about to fire.
3. Kerry took credit for his boat killing 5 Vietcong militia and taking 2 captives. This was a lie Kerry perpetrated to cover up his negligence on duty--there were only 2 people killed (including the boy). The CIA (Captured in Action) were a mother and her infant crouched at the bow of the Sandpan.
4. Kerry was never in Cambodia in Christmas 1968, or in January 1969. There was not magic CIA hat. Kerry is caught in this lie and wants to ignore it (and hopes the Media does as well).
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