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Bush and the National Guard: Case Closed
National Review ^ | February 18, 2004 | Byron York

Posted on 08/26/2004 12:06:00 PM PDT by nikos1121

This article is the best in summarizing George Bush's Milatary Service. We should all bookmark it and have it at hand as the dems plan to open up the George Bush AWOL story which is totally false. Nikos

February 18, 2004, 8:40 a.m. Bush and the National Guard: Case Closed byork@nationalreview.com

Ask retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed whether the press has accurately reported what he said about George W. Bush, and you'll get an earful. "No, I don't think they have," he begins. Turnipseed, the former head of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group of the Alabama Air National Guard, was widely quoted as saying he never saw Bush in Alabama in 1972, and if the future president had been there, he would remember. In fact, Turnipseed says, he doesn't recall whether Bush was there or not; the young flier, then a complete unknown in Alabama, was never part of the 900-man 187th, so Turnipseed wouldn't have had much reason to notice him. But most reporters haven't been interested in Turnipseed's best recollection. "They don't understand the Guard, they don't want to understand the Guard, and they hate Bush," he says. "So when I say, ‘There's a good possibility that Bush showed up,' why would they put that in their articles?"

In recent weeks, Turnipseed has found himself in the middle of a battle in which Democrats have called the president a "deserter" who went "AWOL" for an entire year during his time in the Air National Guard. When Democrats made those accusations — amplified by extensive press coverage — the White House was slow to fight back, insisting that the issue, which came up in the 2000 campaign, was closed and did not merit a response.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; byronyork; milataryservice; nationalguard; tang
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1 posted on 08/26/2004 12:06:00 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121

bttt


2 posted on 08/26/2004 12:08:34 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: nikos1121

The case was closed a long time ago but you sure wouldn't know it from the way it's still brought up on a regular basis...now as retaliation for the questioning of Kerry's fraudulent "heroics". It will be with us always, the myth of the AWOL Prez. Even if only about 1/3 or less will choose to believe it.

It's like the ridiculous harping on the "seven minutes reading a goat story".
What did FDR do for the first 7 minutes after Pearl Harbor? We'll never know...no TV cameras captured it!


3 posted on 08/26/2004 12:09:44 PM PDT by BonnieJ
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To: nikos1121

Is Turnipseed a real name?


4 posted on 08/26/2004 12:13:23 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: BonnieJ

Yes, you are right. This is why we need to have this article at hand and to forward it to people having doubts about George Bush's milatary record.

Flying jets, even in the Guard is risky business. I had a close friend die down in Pensicola during his training when his plane went into a stall on landing.

According to this article three or four pilots were killed in Bush's unit.

Some of the talking heads continue to say that Bush was AWOL 1971-72. As the article states, there were more planes than pilots then. The war was winding down. Bush clearly served his time, (six years in fact.)

nikos


5 posted on 08/26/2004 12:13:34 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121

The records indicate that, despite his move to Alabama, Bush met his obligation to the Guard in the 1972-73 year. At that time, Guardsmen were awarded points based on the days they reported for duty each year. They were given 15 points just for being in the Guard, and were then required to accumulate a total of 50 points to satisfy the annual requirement. In his first four years of service, Bush piled up lots of points; he earned 253 points in his first year, 340 in his second, 137 in his third, and 112 in his fourth. For the year from May 1972 to May 1973, records show Bush earned 56 points, a much smaller total, but more than the minimum requirement (his service was measured on a May-to-May basis because he first joined the Guard in that month in 1968).

Bush then racked up another 56 points in June and July of 1973, which met the minimum requirement for the 1973-74 year, which was Bush's last year of service. Together, the record "clearly shows that First Lieutenant George W. Bush has satisfactory years for both '72-'73 and '73-'74, which proves that he completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner," says retired Lt. Col. Albert Lloyd, a Guard personnel officer who reviewed the records at the request of the White House.


6 posted on 08/26/2004 12:18:14 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: nikos1121

Thanks for posting this, even if it is a bit dated.

It is very comprehensive and nevertheless succinct in explaining the Guard rules.
.


7 posted on 08/26/2004 12:18:43 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: nikos1121

I have mentioned the following before. I remember Kerry saying that on a press show. I could not believe that he was going to get a way with it.-

Men like Campenni and Harmon were deeply offended when Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry equated Guard service during the Vietnam War with fleeing the country or going to jail. That was simply too much. "I'm not a Bushie," says Harmon. "The thing that got a few of us crawling out from under a rock, at no instigation from the White House, was that Guard service was being portrayed as being like a draft dodger."


8 posted on 08/26/2004 12:21:58 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: nikos1121
"We should all bookmark it and have it at hand as the dems plan to open up the George Bush AWOL story which is totally false."

Better yet, it is time to go on the offensive against anyone who continues to bring this up.

It seems John Kerry remained a commisioned officer in the Naval Reserves and had obligations to report for drills after returning from Vietnam.

Where are the records?

Where are the pay stubs?

Where are the interviews with those who should have seen him report for duty?

Was Kerry AWOL?

9 posted on 08/26/2004 12:21:58 PM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys (This tagline has been removed under threat of legal action by the DNC and Kerry-Edwards campaign.)
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To: BonnieJ

Bush should make sure the AWOL question is brought up in the debates. The facts back him up better than Kerry's records defend him from the SBVT questions.


10 posted on 08/26/2004 12:23:05 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: ArmyBratproud

The Daveman Speaks Out
Aug. 8, 2004
Kerry’s Convention Speech Insulted Guard and Reserve Members

Anyone listening to local talk radio in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, on the Monday after the Democratic National Convention, might have sensed the tone of anger coming from local Vets and Troops of the Guard and Reserve. During one segment of a morning talk show, callers voiced their anger with Kerry’s speech. The callers were angry with a statement that offended both troops, and their supporters alike.

The host had been mentioning part of the speech when the fireworks began. First, one caller who had an association with the National Guard, then others. And none seemed too pleased with the Flip Flop master. As a matter of fact, they were down right ticked off. After speaking with many who have served in the Guard and Reserves, I can assure you that the anger is wide spread.

The statement that offended so many who have served with honor?
“And we will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and Reservists.”

The line is in a portion of Kerry’s speech where he refers to the military. Not the portion in which he refers to his service in Vietnam. Although I must admit that it would be a common guess since he announced that ‘breaking information’ to us every two minutes of his droning 55 minute speech. Instead, it appeared in the portion where he suggested how he would handle current military situations.

When looking at the statement, one must wonder what, in the wide, wide world of French Euro trash, was Kerry thinking? Does part one of the John Johns not realize that the statement belittles many of those who serve and have served our great nation? Our troops of the Reserves and Guard have been much more than a “backdoor draft” in the war on terror. They have been honorable warriors who have helped protect our freedom and liberate millions from tyranny.

Kerry’s intent was obvious. He thought that he could play on the emotions and stress of our troops who have been deployed over the past few years. The fact that Kerry would have that mind set is evidence that his intent was also insulting. Kerry should understand that our troops are as mentally tough as they are brave. They are not the types who sit around trying to figure out what opportunities will get them home in four months.

It is not just the line in his convention speech that has angered Guard and Reserve troops. It has been his whole attitude towards them. Kerry and his surrogates have had nothing good to say about President Bush’s National Guard service. In statements referring to the President’s hitch in the Air Guard, Kerry’s surrogates have gone as far as to compare Vietnam era Guard service with actions some people took to avoid going to Vietnam.

Kerry’s insulting statements about the National Guard show a lack of knowledge in regards to the capabilities of the that branch of the military. For example, we know that many Air Guard pilots went to Vietnam through the Palace Alert program. There is also the issue of F-102 pilots dying state side. It shows how fighter pilots need not go overseas to sacrifice their lives in defense of their nation. Then there is the fact that the National Guard has the front line combat units.

Kerry must also realize that service members need not be in a front line combat position, or even in a war time theater, to be considered brave. The simple fact that they would sign up for a career, in which they know very well that they could be sent into a war at any time, makes them all heroes. There were many soldiers who wanted to go to Vietnam, but were sent to Germany and other stations. That does not make their service less honorable.

Kerry has insulted our National Guard and Reserve troops. He has done this while playing politics and that is telling. What’s even more telling is Kerry’s lack of knowledge in regards to America’s Active, Reserve, and National Guard military missions. Just more evidence of why John Kerry is unfit to be Commander in Chief.


11 posted on 08/26/2004 12:26:55 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: nikos1121; All
Bush Served Honorably - Not AWOL - Home Page
12 posted on 08/26/2004 12:27:54 PM PDT by Conservative Coulter Fan (BURN IN HELL, MICHAEL MOORE!)
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To: BonnieJ
"It's like the ridiculous harping on the "seven minutes reading a goat story".

What did FDR do for the first 7 minutes after Pearl Harbor? We'll never know...no TV cameras captured it!"

But we do know what John Kerry did...

KING: Where were you on 9/11?

HEINZ KERRY: You know, it's very interesting. I landed at National Airport less than 12 hours before, coming from Pennsylvania, where I was doing a prescription drugs thing -- meeting. And I came in from Pittsburgh, landed at National, and that's the last time I landed at National for quite a while.

KING: How'd you hear about it?

HEINZ KERRY: I was at home in Washington. I had just come in and I got a call...

KERRY: I think I called.

HEINZ KERRY: And they said, look at the TV. I looked at the TV and I couldn't believe it.

KING: Where were you?

KERRY: I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting -- we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation.

HEINZ KERRY: You walked out with John McCain, didn't you?

KERRY: Yes.

KING: You and what?

HEINZ KERRY: He and John walked out together.

KING: He and John McCain walked out -- what did you think? Did you think...

13 posted on 08/26/2004 12:28:03 PM PDT by Hatteras
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To: nikos1121

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record
Ex-skipper says website wrong
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | April 23, 2004


...However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.
On the Kerry website, the report of the combat on that day on the 94 boat is posted as occurring during Kerry's time as skipper of the boat. Peck said Kerry replaced him after the Jan. 29, 1969, event.
"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."


14 posted on 08/26/2004 12:31:40 PM PDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: ArmyBratproud

Yes, you highlight a good point. Interesting to think and contrast with what Kerry was doing at the same time.

nikos


15 posted on 08/26/2004 12:34:46 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: ArmyBratproud

Another good point. I am sure that we will need to reference these facts in the coming weeks as I keep hearing the dem talking heads like Carville and others throwing the word "AWOL" out there like it's been accepted fact.

nick


16 posted on 08/26/2004 12:36:31 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121

bump to support SWIFTVETS and GEORGE W. BUSH and btw Kerry never finished his military obligation... http://www.swiftvets.com/


17 posted on 08/26/2004 12:40:01 PM PDT by freddiedavis
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To: ArmyBratproud

I was living in Peoria, IL for awhile where they have a Guard unit. We had a pilot, a well known neurosurgeon, die in a plane crash while flying during duty. Guard duty is not "Sclock Duty" as the Kerryites are wanting everyone to believe.


18 posted on 08/26/2004 12:40:44 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: Lee'sGhost
Don't know about this particular man, but I knew a family of Turnipseeds when I was in elementary school and another later in high school. It may not be this man's name, but it certainly is a valid name.
19 posted on 08/26/2004 12:41:14 PM PDT by jwpjr
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To: ArmyBratproud

Yes, and one of Kerry's Band of Brothers, ( I think his name is Alton or something like that,) was actually on Peck's boat, not Kerry's. Why isn't the media pointing that out. Kerry was taking credit for what happened to Peck.

Nick


20 posted on 08/26/2004 12:45:03 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: Hatteras
What did FDR do for the first 7 minutes after Pearl Harbor? We'll never know...no TV cameras captured it!"

More importantly, what did Sgt. Fury do? Nya nya?!?!

21 posted on 08/26/2004 12:50:08 PM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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To: nikos1121
Ok....lets look over some facts.
Right now as we freep, there ARE national guard troops serving,fighting,and dying TODAY!!!! These stupid hate filled non-educated deceiving %&^%)%#heads are mocking and degrading they same people who they say they support!!
Every time I hear anyone speak with low regard to any reservist it really torks my $^&@
They have to be constantly reminded that it was THEIR commander in chief who decimated our military, who constantly cut defense,intelligence and other budgets to keep this country safe and free. Shortly after 9-11 it was the question...why didn't we know?. Ask torrocelli or corlick....why is our military spread out so thin? Ask clinton and albright...(we lost near 50% of our navy) during the idiots "reign"...and because the political winds weren't blowing in the right direction (per him) he fail to act to destroy the very group we fight today, only causing them to think they could attack and succeed. They are finding out today...that our military (including national guard troops) are kicking ass and will continue to kick ass, because we have a president who DOES NOT put himself or his country in harms way.....no matter what anyone say's or does...something clinton had to check with hollywood or his lawyers to decide.Even if they did decide to go to war, would he have?....there's his %$*#ing legacy!!!


I had to vent......


Doogle
22 posted on 08/26/2004 12:54:51 PM PDT by Doogle (USAF..408th MMS...Ubon, Thailand "69" ..."Wolfpack".night line delivery "Doogle")
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To: HenryLeeII

I can still hear the sound of the choppers and the voices of the little Vietnamese children singing....


23 posted on 08/26/2004 12:55:49 PM PDT by Hatteras
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To: nikos1121
I cannot help but think that W never made military service his sole qualification for the Presidency. Yet, it is okay to question his service.

On the other hand, F'n has made Vietnam his sole qualification for being President. Yet, we cannot even dare question his service.

If we need to question W's service, because he is sending troops off to war, then F'n's service should be laid out on the table, as well.

24 posted on 08/26/2004 1:11:45 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: Hatteras; Owl_Eagle
I can still hear the sound of the choppers and the voices of the little Vietnamese children singing....

The name on the uniform said Greasemanelli, but they knew me as...SGT FURY <.sounds of gongs crashing and helicopters hovering overhead>...

Quang Tri...1967. We were walking patrol, looking for Charlie who had been ambushing our booze shipments. I was walking point and got a little ahead of the rest of the guys when all of a sudden, Jane Fonda pops up from a nearby rice paddy, little red book in hand, preaching to me to forget capitalism and join Ho Chi Minh's utopia.

I asked her whether they had free dental care, and she said they were working on it. I said, here, why don't you be the first recipient as I dropped trow and...

25 posted on 08/26/2004 2:27:21 PM PDT by HenryLeeII (sultan88, R.I.P.)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Paul Atreides
GOOD ON YOU!!!

Doc

27 posted on 08/26/2004 6:09:12 PM PDT by Doc On The Bay
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To: Caughnawaga

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040210-082910-8424r.htm

Here's one.


28 posted on 08/26/2004 7:41:05 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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To: Caughnawaga; Paul Atreides

http://www.politicalpuzzle.org/archives/001393.php

I can't seem to post the original Richmond Times article.


29 posted on 08/26/2004 7:52:09 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

I wouldn't want to assault your principled beliefs..Read the next one.


31 posted on 08/26/2004 7:57:30 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

I haven't seen Rev Moon's editorial control being exercised...I read the NYT and the Washigton Poat, the LA Times and the Chicago Tribune, the NY Post and the Telegraph....I read the Canadian and Australian papers and the Arab News...I read online sites, the Opinion Journal, the National Review and sometimes Slate, Salon, and the TV sites for news and transcripts..It depends on what is going on and where....I read.

I imagine you have other papers you enjoy that give your Republican and Vietnam veteran views a voice..Right?


35 posted on 08/26/2004 8:16:43 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (retired)
U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard
Herndon, Va.5

This is the author of the Washington Times OP/ED...Take a chance .. the moonies will not try to get a donation!


37 posted on 08/26/2004 8:25:36 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

LOL....I love your posts...They are so transparent..carry on.


39 posted on 08/26/2004 8:29:54 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

Candidate in this year’s American presidential elections, John Kerry, who fought in the war, went further in his criticism. In a statement to the US’ Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in 1971, he said the war crimes committed by US soldiers in Southeast Asia "were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of

chttp://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2004-06/10/Stories/16.htmommand."


41 posted on 08/26/2004 8:41:07 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

You say it's a shame no one comes forward that served with Bush and refuse to read it because you don't approve of the ownership of the Times...I tried to help and you get into Aussie and Moon...The only thing you thought was important in the other article was a phased out fighter plane....Last night you were critical of Bush becuse he wasn't giving attaboys to the Swift Vets and I patiently told you why...You still thought he should do it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/04_08_22_corner-archive.asp
Scroll down to Still Useful After All These Years...click on two months ago underlined.


43 posted on 08/26/2004 9:02:45 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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To: nikos1121

Flying in the military is indeed very risky. I am aware of 5% of my Air Force flying class being killed in accidents the first 18 months out of flying school in 1956. I would like to see the percentages of President Bush's flying class fatalities. In fact the F102 that he flew has one of the highest fatality records of Air Force aircraft.
Data like this might convince reasonable people but some of the rats will never be convinced.
I knew people in the Alabama Air National Guard who were killed in training accidents in the early 1960's. I was an Air Traffic Controller in Birmingham at that time.


44 posted on 08/26/2004 9:05:38 PM PDT by southland (Alabama will vote for Bush put it in your book.)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

If you are a Vietnam Vet you know why he is subjecting himself to this ...even though no one could imagine how tough it is unless they have had their integrity and motives questioned night after night....

We have a prayer thread going for the swiftvets...I will ping you to it if you like..


46 posted on 08/26/2004 9:19:20 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

You're a retread.

Who were you?


48 posted on 08/26/2004 9:27:56 PM PDT by wardaddy
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Caughnawaga

yep...a retread.

welcome back..lol


50 posted on 08/26/2004 9:47:13 PM PDT by wardaddy
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