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Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief (John Lehman)
Sun Times ^ | August 28, 2004 | Thomas Lipscomb

Posted on 08/28/2004 7:30:49 AM PDT by Grampa Dave

Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief

August 28, 2004

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.

The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...."

Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.

Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.

Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ch866; citation; citations; flushthejohns; hyland; johnfabricatorkerry; johnkerry; johnlehman; kerry; kerrylies; kerrymedals; kerryphoneymedals; kerrysnamtypewriter; ktv; lehman; lurch; medals; militaryrecord; sbv; silverstar; zumwalt
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To: McGruff
"WHERE ARE WE GOING JOHN?"

401 posted on 08/28/2004 9:51:30 AM PDT by Gucho
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To: Cboldt
U gotta love it!!!!..The after action reports...KERRY THIS...KERRY THAT!...Geez!...he was the only guy mentioned!!!
402 posted on 08/28/2004 9:53:08 AM PDT by M-cubed
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To: Mike Fieschko

No worries Mike--and I apologize as well.


403 posted on 08/28/2004 9:53:39 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: ken5050

I think Kerry's camp made a major mistake by releasing the Lehman signed citations. They thought that they would add more luster to Kerry's record, not realizing that it raises more questions, especially if it involves replacement medals.


404 posted on 08/28/2004 9:54:17 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Nov3

Wasn't he in the reserves until 1978?


405 posted on 08/28/2004 9:54:22 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Zealous Troll Hunter - and you know who you are - you've been warned.)
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To: Grampa Dave

I remember a Freeper back in April or so caught the three citations business plus Lehman's signature.

It was interesting because Lehman was at that very time high profile as a co-chair of the 9/11 Commission.

How clever of a reporter to ask Lehman about it.

Actually, kudos to Lipscomb who has been doing the basic job I expect from a reporter. Digging and talking to the players in a given story. It was Lipscomb who found witnesses placing Kerry at the November 1971 "Assassination" meeting in Kansas City.

Keep digging, Tom Lipscomb. America thanks you.


406 posted on 08/28/2004 9:54:40 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: wyattearp

Didn't see that one. Quite a bit different, actually. Thanks.


407 posted on 08/28/2004 9:54:52 AM PDT by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: mwl1

thanks for posting that.

Of course, the democrats can ignore rules ... in certain states, ala torocelli, but it seems weird that they could get by with it nationally.

but what if something drastic happened to remove Kerry from contention, i.e. illness; if he withdrew, etc.

Who would be the nominee then? Would it be Edwards or would it just go to the convention as in the old days?

Does anyone know?


408 posted on 08/28/2004 9:55:24 AM PDT by altura (Didn't think it possible but the dems did it. --found someone worse than Clinton or Gore.)
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To: mass55th
"Bronze Star Signature:

Silver Star Signature:

9/11 Report Signature:"

The first two are clearly autopen signatures. You can tell because there are no "tails", where the pen is gradually lifted off the paper while moving. In other words all the lines end abruptly, as if the pen stopped moving then was lifted.

The third is clearly a hand signature. You can see the tails. Plus the first two are identical, while the third shows some variation.

Does anyone have dates for the first two signatures? or is that info lost forever?

409 posted on 08/28/2004 9:55:40 AM PDT by Oblongata
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To: Peach

When you decide to run for public office in America, your life becomes an open book for all to see. John Kerry refuses to open his life book. The obvious question arises. What's he hiding?


410 posted on 08/28/2004 9:55:53 AM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: katnip
Hello,

LOL indeed! As the mother of a 6 yr. old boy, I have this to say to Kerry:
Liar, Liar, Plants for Hire!
Uh, it's Pants on Fire...
You would know....Liar!
(Sorry for the Sponge Bob reference, I couldn't help myself)Glad to be here, MOgirl
411 posted on 08/28/2004 9:56:25 AM PDT by MOgirl (In memory of Walton Wayne Callahan, I love you forever.)
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To: Tallguy

Kerry didn't throw the citations over the fence.

He threw the ribbons/medals before he didn't throw someone else's medals/ribbons.

Kerry keeps trying to say medals/ribbons are interchangeable, when in fact they are not. Protocol stipulates which uniforms you wear either the ribbon or the medals with.


412 posted on 08/28/2004 9:56:33 AM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: Grampa Dave

it's interesting but let's get real here.. if everything they have on Kerry now up to this point isn't enough, nothing ever will be.. we could have films of kerry shooting his own men and nothing would happen..


413 posted on 08/28/2004 9:57:02 AM PDT by Awestruck (The artist formerly known as Goodie D)
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To: kabar

Oops, I read through the citations again and wound up posting to myself. Try this again...

The last sentence in the two silver star citations are indeed different. Quite a bit different. Thanks.


414 posted on 08/28/2004 9:57:15 AM PDT by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: Grampa Dave

The thing I don't get is HOW could the Kerry people believe they would not get caught if this was a fake 'silver star' or whatever?

Heck, my pet alligator won a silver star too, in vietnam, or laos or cambodia... total fabrication and outright lies.

Was this their plan, to push kerry's false medals, and then cry foul over exposure of such outright lies that even a three year old KNOWS the F'r is lying out his ass?

What? Why?
I don't get it.


415 posted on 08/28/2004 9:58:06 AM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (Robert the "RINO")
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To: Rebelbase
Isn't it a Federal crime to alter military documents?

From the way Kerry has prospered since his return from Vietnam, I can't help
but wonder if there isn't some obscure bit of Federal Code that exempts
liberal Democratic politicians from prosecution of any sort.
416 posted on 08/28/2004 9:59:24 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Grampa Dave

can anyone spell forgery, or does a signature stamp not count?


417 posted on 08/28/2004 9:59:39 AM PDT by crabbie
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To: hershey
Well, my goodness. And just a few minutes ago on MSNBC, Bill Press announced that every smear against Kerry had been proven false, so case closed. Guess this is one he missed. Press looked like someone had just died.

That would be the same Bill Press that just finished up his book tour. What is the book about? Why, it's about how evil Bush is and why you shouldn't vote for him in November.

(The book bombed, by the way. Current Amazon rank as I write this: 4,360.)

418 posted on 08/28/2004 9:59:43 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ˇ°ml maximizeˇ± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: Polybius

When you don't have diversity of ideals in the media, this is what happens.
Who in the MSM, besides Ollie North, is qualified to write, know, and understand what is being put forth as gospel? Nobody.

Hire more military people on the staff and this type of garbage wouldn't have even propelled Kerry out of the primaries.


419 posted on 08/28/2004 10:00:27 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Zealous Troll Hunter - and you know who you are - you've been warned.)
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To: All

Has anyone seen this on any MSM other than the Chicago Paper and the Drudge site? I think it will have to come to light - just too strange to ignor.....


420 posted on 08/28/2004 10:00:32 AM PDT by Momto2
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To: Dont Mention the War
"And just a few minutes ago on MSNBC, Bill Press announced that every smear against Kerry had been proven false, so case closed."

Sure. It's all lies! Lies! There are no questions about the Silver Star! No! Never!

421 posted on 08/28/2004 10:01:04 AM PDT by Reactionary
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To: MOgirl

Hey, welcome to Free Republic.

My 12 year old and his friend yell "Liar" every time they see his ugly mug on T.V.


422 posted on 08/28/2004 10:01:28 AM PDT by katnip
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To: Grampa Dave

Kerry dumped 10 lbs. of socks and underwear in order to take his typewriter along in his 90 lb. limited bag duffle bag when he went to war! (I read this in an exerpt from one of the Swiftees...sorry, don't remember which one.)


423 posted on 08/28/2004 10:01:54 AM PDT by Carolinamom
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To: Rebelbase

Is Botox Johnny handy with Photoshop?


424 posted on 08/28/2004 10:02:34 AM PDT by pointsal
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To: Robert_Paulson2
The thing I don't get is HOW could the Kerry people believe they would not get caught if this was a fake 'silver star' or whatever?

My guess is they didn't know or didn't bother to check it all out before releasing the documents

425 posted on 08/28/2004 10:03:39 AM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: wyattearp

Numerous posts before yours made
side by side comparisons clearly
showing puffed up language has
been added to the Lehman-signed,
3rd Citation. If Kerry's site has
the real deal, and isn't hiding
something, then I don't get your
post.

The changed lang. has been shown
on this thread. Repeatedly.


426 posted on 08/28/2004 10:05:16 AM PDT by txrangerette
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To: Cboldt

If there was a simple administrative explanation for "all this", it would have been released already.


427 posted on 08/28/2004 10:05:28 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Zealous Troll Hunter - and you know who you are - you've been warned.)
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To: cyncooper

You can easily deduce that something is rotten by working back from Hehman's staement. He basically said that he knows nothing about the reissuance of Kerry's medals. Thiis has to be true. There is NO way in the world that a SECNAV would not attempt to milk for PR purposes a medal cermemony, even paperwork, involving a sitting US Senator..


428 posted on 08/28/2004 10:08:16 AM PDT by ken5050 (Bill Clinton has just signed to be the national spokesman for Hummer..)
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To: katnip
Hello, And thanks for the welcome. I lurked here for years, and finally decided to join in the fun!

Glad to be here, MOgirl
429 posted on 08/28/2004 10:09:49 AM PDT by MOgirl (In memory of Walton Wayne Callahan, I love you forever.)
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To: Carolinamom

"Kerry dumped 10 lbs. of socks and underwear in order to take his typewriter along in his 90 lb. limited bag duffle bag when he went to war!"


LOL! I was just thinking about that.
Time magazine...Eleanor Clift.


430 posted on 08/28/2004 10:10:00 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (President Bush is a mensch in cowboy boots.)
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To: Grampa Dave
Someone should photoshop Kerry's ugly head into that photo.

LOL! I saved the pic, Grampa. I'll send ya the URL when it's done.


431 posted on 08/28/2004 10:10:19 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: Mo1

wow...
just the kind of morons we can trust with the ship of state...

too stupid for public office.
kerry may end up losing his senate seat over this stuff.

surely he knows that he is now vulnerable, or is he too stupid to figure that out too?


432 posted on 08/28/2004 10:11:09 AM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (Robert the "RINO")
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To: eno_
Kerry will be "on ice" during the convention while this story festers.

There was a story last week that Kerry was planning on campaigning next week. This violates the gentlemens' rule of presidential campaigns which states that during the other party's convention, you take a vacation and keep a low profile. Bush did during the DNC. If Kerry doesn't, it will just be one more piece of evidence as to what a jerk he is.

433 posted on 08/28/2004 10:11:19 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (we use the ˇ°ml maximizeˇ± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
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To: Carolinamom
Kerry dumped 10 lbs. of socks and underwear in order to take his typewriter along in his 90 lb. limited bag duffle bag when he went to war!

No, no. He donated them to the Sallies and took a charitable deduction on his 1040. Like the Clintons did.
434 posted on 08/28/2004 10:11:44 AM PDT by Mike Fieschko (Oh, and Dick Cheney, too.)
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To: Grampa Dave; moondoggie; All
I see this is a long thread so apologies if this has been cross-linked already, but I am anxious for Free Republic to get credit where it is due.

As I said, back in April I distinctly recalled a Freeper noticing this and raising this very question so I just Googled "Free Republic + Silver Star + Lehman" and found it. Note the thread title refers to the "Bronze", but it's the Lehman issue that was noticed and raised:

Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Posted on 04/22/2004 10:49:24 AM PDT by moondoggie

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

~snip~

435 posted on 08/28/2004 10:12:10 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: Robert_Paulson2

He is counting on the media to discredit his accusers.


436 posted on 08/28/2004 10:13:23 AM PDT by Wu
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To: Cboldt
That is, boilerplate language evolution, administrative SOP in issuing replacement citation, etc.

So you are saying that this line, "his actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service," was replaced "By his brave action, bold initiative and unwavering devotion to duty Lieutenant Kerry reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the US Naval Service," as part of the evolution of language?

I'm not going to argue about that because I don't know, though it seems suspect to apply retroactively. And remember, Democrats are extending this language (bravery, bold initiative and unwavering devotion) to characterize his lying testimony before the Senate. I think the addition of this language would have specfic value to a man trying to frame that entire period of his life as one of patriot, not traitor.

437 posted on 08/28/2004 10:13:48 AM PDT by Dolphy (Support swiftvets.com)
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To: been_lurking
" Why would anything, even "boilerplate" language, be changed in the replacement citation?

Normally you wouldn't get anything changed, you would just get a 'official reproduction' made from the artwork on file. I think this is the point Lehman is trying to make.

The original citation is probably stored as artwork, not just a copy. Old printing techniques did it this way. They would take a blank piece of parchment and shoot the old artwork onto that. It would likely include the original signature. If the artwork wasn't available then you just make a reproduction copy of a real 'old' version and sign it with the original signature with an autopen.

As an example there are plenty of reproduction copies of various US founding documents. These are made to high standards so the reproduction copies can be used for display. I have a reproduced US Constitution, suitable for framing, as an example.

Most people would want a historically accurate reproduction of medal citations, rather than just a rewritten copy with the same words. Someone knows exactly what the procedures and policies are, so it would not be too hard to get to the bottom of this.

You are right, something smells funny here. Especially since the actual citation words were rewritten, not the boilerplate. Someone was trying to beef up their historical record ... IMHO.

438 posted on 08/28/2004 10:14:19 AM PDT by snooker (Looks like the Swifties snookered the dims ...)
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To: Grampa Dave

Yikes, This is a blockbuster.


439 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:05 AM PDT by Radix (John Kerry is finally not going to do a 180, especially when it comes to releasing his form 180!)
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To: e_castillo
Lehman Secretary of the Navy from 1981-1987. Now why would Kerry get his signature on any Vietnam era doc? I remember seeing the doc andI thought it said Sec of the Navy next to Lehman's signature. Whats' up with that.

One theory I heard was that Kerry wanted to 'upgrade' his citation either because he's a vain little twit or because then it would be unthinkable to even question it...or both.

The first citation being from what, a two-star admiral... the next being to a higher ranking one... and finally the Secretary of the navy himself.

440 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:07 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Mo1

Mo1...recall that Kerry's own campaign people got him confused with Bob Kerrey on the Intelegence Committee.

And maybe they have been sloppy knowing that the media was there to protect him.

They didn't factor in Free Republic researchers, Blogs, FoxNews and investigative reporters like Thomas Lipscomb.


441 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:14 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (One good term deserves another! Take W-04....Across America!)
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To: Grampa Dave

Well done, Grampa. Each time his 'citation' is rewritten the language gets ever more floral. I'm not all that thrilled with the way Lehman has handled himself on the commission, but these rewrites have sKerry's tone in the words...


442 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:16 AM PDT by meema
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To: Grampa Dave
Albeit I'd love it to be an issue I think it's a non issue.....

Awards and decorations were routinely signed by SecDef and CINC's etc as the awards and the wording is written at the lowest level. In some cases by the individuals immediate supervisor. At base admin and command levels (for awards that merit promotion points and retirement pay increase ) is the text proof read and edited and then the award is rubber stamped and approved.

Stay Safe Dave !

443 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:43 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Mo1
TIn hat on: Or they knew they were fake....were going to leak it to the press in October, and then make "W" look bad as the leaker....ALA WIlson fiasco.
444 posted on 08/28/2004 10:15:57 AM PDT by hoosiermama (NAM Vet's Revenge.......It's about time.)
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To: kabar
Kerry was offshore on the Gridley in the combat area March 1968 to May 1968. He would be eligible for the Tet Counteroffensive (30 JAN 68- 1 APR 68)and Counteroffensive Phase (2 April 1968 - 30 June 1968).

I stand corrected. He actually does legitimately deserve 4 campaign stars.

Kerry's time on the Gridley cruise overlapped those two campaign periods.

His Swift boat time also overlapped two campaign periods, Vietnamese Counteroffensive Phase VI (2 Nov 68 - 22 Feb 69) and Tet 69/Counteroffensive (23 Feb 69 - 8 Jun 69).

445 posted on 08/28/2004 10:17:52 AM PDT by Bob
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To: ken5050

It's still there.


446 posted on 08/28/2004 10:18:10 AM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: cyncooper; Grampa Dave
I have a theory....

The Rear Admiral who just stepped forward and said he was on the Boston Whaler with Kerry.......and who didn't file a after action report....because of no action.

Here is my theory......what if one was filed.....by Kerry.

I think that is why he is hiding his records.

447 posted on 08/28/2004 10:20:10 AM PDT by Dog ( formerly known as VC-- - - - - - Combat Dog.)
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To: katnip
Kerrys senior campaign advisor is on with Tony Snow now saying that every one of kerrys military records is on their website LOL.

They've been saying that for months but it still isn't true.

448 posted on 08/28/2004 10:20:12 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Just mythoughts

placemark


449 posted on 08/28/2004 10:20:28 AM PDT by Maigrey (For the record I wouldn't vote for John Kerry if he were the last man on earth. - Notpolcorewrkd)
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To: Dog

That after action report would not be in his personal records. It would be archived with Swift Boat records at the National Archives.


450 posted on 08/28/2004 10:23:02 AM PDT by Wu
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