A FACE OF FUTURE BATTLE: CHECHEN FIGHTER SHAMIL BASAYEV [Long, Good Read. Background: Beslan Leader]

Foreign Military Studies Office ^ | June-July 1997 | MAJ Raymond C. Finch, III

[AdmSmith]

That article is garbage. The scum was trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan and was not part of a Soviet special terrorist unit.

I am sorry to disturb your idea about the "good Russian military" but Lunev is correct.

[LiberalBassTurds]

The guy's got some amazing credentials.

LBT

-=-=-

[Destro]

I will put it to you this way. Why is that newsmax article illustrating his training in the Russian military before the break up - and apparently he must have been the only good student - but ignores the training he had in Afghanistan by al-Qaeda and maybe the Pakistanis - in other words the American side of his training?

[AdmSmith]

Why are you focusing on the 1999 article in Newsmax?

It was originally published in 1996. Please read the footnote 14.Stanislav Lunev, "Chechen Terrorists--Made in the USSR," Jamestown Prism, The Jamestown Foundation, Washington, DC, 26 Jan 96.

[chuckles]

The main theme I got from the article was that we can't fight armies where there aren't any and they can't be police actions either. When people get upset at us bombing civies in Iraq or some such place, they have to realize we are at war with people that don't wear uniforms. If we kill some civies to get the bad guys, well, sorry, they should avoid the bad guys. If we are going to have to play by Marcus of Queensbury rules, then they have to also. If they don't, then to bad for them. People are talking war crimes for us, but trials and defence lawyers for them. I say a bullet in the brain pan and save time and money.

Just try and imagine yourself as a Ruskie soldier today finding this scum hiding in the burned out school with childrens bodies all around. There would be no trial or arrest and the world opinion of me be damned. I don't believe we should or would target innocent people, but sometimes you have to make hard decisions. If we KNEW where OBL was for sure, but he had women and children in the same building, would we wait for him to be alone or take out the building? We better take out the building.

[F14 Pilot]

Shamil called himself "Brother of Osama Bin Laden"

[MarMema]

I have spent the last 7 years studying chechen scum and especially Basayev, as you probably know. Ever since a long visit to the border and learning a great deal firsthand at that time. In fact I post this very thread-link quite often in other threads and just did the other day....

But I wanted to say that I believe you are correct. Basayev was never trained by the soviets.

[AdmSmith]

But I wanted to say that I believe you are correct. Basayev was never trained by the soviets.

He was trained as a paratrooper in the Soviet Army, recruited by GRU in 1991/1992 and worked in Abkhazia and later used his experience and set up his own business in his own country Chechnya. The century long opposition in Chechnya against the Russian domination was converted to a religious war and is now hijacked by the Salafists/Wahhabis. The Russian Army is incompetent, corrupt and unable to solve this, they can only destroy and kill.

[MarMema]

The Russian army struggles and suffers, no doubt. There are voices rising now about a new approach - actually since the planes were lost. Or at least I have seen some issues like this in the Russian news very recently.

Much of what you read is about the hard things in the Russian military. I lived with a general and his family in Moscow for about a month, though, and I think some of it is media bias.

The most important thing are the terrible losses at the hands of chechen scum. What do you think would be a better way for Russia to stop the chechens from the horrors they loose in the world?

I have never read of Basayev being trained by the soviets. What/who is GRU?

[silversky]

But it is known only to a limited number of insiders that he is the creation of the Russian special services

It's a flat out lie. The guy was trained in Afghanistan funded ny Saudi Arabia. Known by all outsiders involved. Not hard to reason out either, knowing the Soviets fought the Afghan war.

[AdmSmith]

GRU = Glavnoye Razvedovatel'noye Upravlenie

[Destro]

Chechen terrorists were made in Afghanistan - by the refuse the CIA left behind. al-Qaeda's origin is at Foggy Bottom not the Kremlin.

[silversky]

There are so many fabrications in these writings, it's little wonder Clinton fooled all of us and did what he did. Basically hearsay wrapped up for public consumption. Not worth the time.

[Destro]

Absolutely. The Clinton era had these articles churned out by think tanks on demand to justify policy.

This is what was written in newsmax and in other thinktank ragsheets by the neocon thinktanks during the Clinton era:

Chechens were freedom fighters like in the movie "Red Dawn". Serbs are genocidal maniacs. The Bosnian Muslims and Kosovo Muslims are pacifists. The Taliban are maybe a good thing because they will bring order to Afghanistan and take it back from the Russian Northern Alliance who are all drug running warlords and teh Taliban will stomp out the heroin trade.

Fossils stuck in the old cold war way of thinking even try and push the line al-Qaeda and their brand of terror was born in the old USSR and not with Foggy Bottom's partnering with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to wage jihad on the old USSR in Afghanistan.

I guess they can't face the fact that they Medusa like birthed the al-Qaeda monsters.

[jeffers]

To whom it may concern:

Blowback - when false information inserted into an enemy's conciousness is circulated through his information gathering channels and is intercepted by friendly intelligence agencies, being inserted into your command/decision making cycle as new and valid information.

When an enemy doesn't like what you did and retaliates, it is called "reprisal" or ...well..."retaliation", which doesn't sound nearly so.....inside, now does it?

Please put the trenchcoat BACK in the closet and step AWAY from the Clancy novels.

[Destro]

I don't read Tom Clancy novels. Blowback - refers to a CIA neologism describing the unintended consequences of American activity.

Do you read Janes?

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jir/jir010726_1_n.shtml

26 July 2001

'Blowback'

During the 1980s, resistance fighters in Afghanistan developed a world-wide recruitment and support network with the aid of the USA, Saudi Arabia and other states. After the 1989 Soviet withdrawal, this network, which equipped, trained and funded thousands of Muslim fighters, came under the control of Osama bin Laden. In light of evidence from the recently completed US embassy bombing trials, Phil Hirschkorn, Rohan Gunaratna, Ed Blanche, and Stefan Leader examine the genesis, operational methods and organisational structure of the Bin Laden network: Al-Qaeda.

Al-Qaeda ('The Base') is a conglomerate of groups spread throughout the world operating as a network. It has a global reach, with a presence in Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Jordan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Syria, Xinjiang in China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Myanmar, Indonesia, Mindanao in the Philippines, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Dagestan, Kashmir, Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Azerbaijan, Eritrea, Uganda, Ethiopia, and in the West Bank and Gaza.

Since its creation in 1988, Osama bin Laden has controlled Al-Qaeda. As such, he is both the backbone and the principal driving force behind the network. . . .

. . . Vertically, Al-Qaeda is organised with Bin Laden, the emir-general, at the top, followed by other Al-Qaeda leaders and leaders of the constituent groups. Horizontally, it is integrated with 24 constituent groups. The vertical integration is formal, the horizontal integration, informal. Immediately below Bin Laden is the Shura majlis, a consultative council. Four committees - military, religio-legal, finance, and media - report to the majlis. Handpicked members of these committees - especially the military committee - conduct special assignments for Bin Laden and his operational commanders. To preserve operational effectiveness at all levels, compartmentalisation and secrecy are paramount.

While the organisation has evolved considerably since the embassy bombings, the basic structure of the consultative council and the four committees remains intact. Bin Laden's intention to expand his operations has been curbed by the post-bombing security environment, and both Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda have become increasingly clandestine.

Read also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback

Blowback is a term used in espionage to describe unintended consequences. In context, it can also mean retaliation as the result of actions undertaken by nations. The phrase is believed to have been coined by the CIA.

In the 1980s, blowback became a central focus of the debate over the Reagan Doctrine, which advocated militarily supporting resistance movements opposing Soviet-supported, communist governments. Critics of the Reagan Doctrine argued that blowback was unavoidable, and that, through the doctrine, the United States was inflaming Third World wars. Conservative advocates, principally at the conservative Heritage Foundation, responded that support for anti-communist resistance movements would lead to a "correlation of forces," which would topple communist regimes without significant retaliatory consequence to the United States, while simultaneously altering the global balance of power in the Cold War.

Given prior CIA support of the Islamic insurgency in Afghanistan and purportedly also of Osama bin Laden, it could be argued that the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack is the most prominent contemporary example of blowback, since some contend that this U.S. support actually helped build Bin Laden as a geopolitical force.

[jeffers]

Nope, Jane's is a little too pedestrian for me.

Every once in a while I check to see if they have anything interesting if I'm bored.

Unless you can cite a source with reason to know, from earlier than 1977 or 1978, the definition I posted stands.

Would you like me to tell you how it started, or would you prefer to follow the sheep who follow the sheep who followed the original players who first vocalized the concept?

[Destro]

This is the English language - meanings change over time. I think you should update to a new century dictionary and file away your late 1970s vintage one along with your afro - bellbottoms and butterfly collar shirt.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 1998 — At the CIA, it happens often enough to have a code name: Blowback. Simply defined, this is the term that describes an agent, an operative or an operation that has turned on its creators. Osama bin Laden, our new public enemy Number 1, is the personification of blowback. And the fact that he is viewed as a hero by millions in the Islamic world proves again the old adage: Reap what you sow.

[silversky]

Please put the trenchcoat BACK in the closet and step AWAY from the Clancy novels.

No argument. I don't like to dig that dusty old wardrobe either. It so happened that another monster grew out in the process of bringing down the Soviets. I'd rather screw the skeletons and move to the present. Where is the monster head now? I feel like a Knight swinging my sword in darkness.

[silversky]

I remember well the "order bringing, drug stomping Talliban". Good thing the Ruskies kept the Northern Alliance on life support. They were useful on the ground.