A FACE OF FUTURE BATTLE: CHECHEN FIGHTER SHAMIL BASAYEV [Long, Good Read. Background: Beslan Leader]

Foreign Military Studies Office ^ | June-July 1997 | MAJ Raymond C. Finch, III

[AdmSmith]

Thanks for the very informative link. No, I did not confuse these two, BTW Dudayev was driven by nationalism.:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0905russia-sidebar05.html

Associated Press
Sept. 5, 2004 12:00 AM
MOSCOW - Rebels linked to the school hostage-taking seek independence from Russia and to make Chechnya a Muslim nation.

The first war between Chechen rebels and Russian forces in the past decade had less of a religious element than the current conflict, which began in 1999.

In the 1994-96 war, separatists led by Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudayev appeared to be driven primarily by centuries of resentment of Russia, which subjugated the region, and its Soviet successors, who ordered the wholesale deportation of Chechens to Central Asia in 1944.

After Russian forces withdrew in 1996, warlord Shamil Basayev forced Aslan Maskhadov, who had become president, to declare Sharia law, or Islamic law, an idea that has less support among the public than it does among the rebels.

Basayev led a Chechen insurgent raid into neighboring Dagestan in 1999 with the aim of establishing an Islamic enclave. That raid was one of the Kremlin's justifications for trying to forcefully regain control of Chechnya and touched off the current conflict.

Maskhadov still holds some fighters' loyalty, but those who answer to Basayev are believed to be a far larger, more violent group.

[LiberalBassTurds]

Very interesting article. Thank you MarMema!

LBT

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[MarMema]

link

"In Moscow in the late 1980s, Basayev moonlighted by building and selling homemade computers, and supposedly did moderately well at it. (His business partner, Supyan Taramov, later outfitted a unit of pro-Russian Chechens dubbed "Shamil Hunters.") He first cut a figure on the national stage, however, in August 1991, during the hardline putsch by Soviet dinosaurs. Basayev reportedly appeared near the White House, grenades under his arms, swearing to protect Chechen professor Ruslan Khasbulatov, then chairman of the Supreme Soviet."

Doesn't look like Basayev ever trained with the soviets. I think Des was correct on this after all.

[MarMema]

Oh I know about Dudayev. I have studied chechen warriors for a few years now with a great passion. Since I spent time on the chechen border in 1997 and became intrigued by the intense Russian hatred of chechens. It is my personal hobby.

[MarMema]

Putin is correct that they want to take over Dagestan, Georgia, Ossetia, Ingushetia - they want it all and it all mostly borders Russia. What a nightmare that would be for the Russians!

The Russians are between a rock and a hard place. They can't win against the chechens, but when they gave up and let it go, chechens went into Dagestan to "liberate" them ( the Dagestanis wanted no such liberation, however).

They got Barayev in the threatre crisis, and they finally managed to poison Khattab by messenger, but they never can get Basayev, and they missed Udugov because Turkey refused to send him to Russia, then he escaped.

I don't know if these two big players will stop it all even if they did get them.

Anyway, it's going to be interesting to see what happens in about 40 days.

[AdmSmith]

Doesn't look like Basayev ever trained with the soviets. I think Des was correct on this after all.

Please reread what I have posted in this thread. He was trained as a paratrooper in the Soviet Army, and trained as a special operative by GRU under the Russian Ministry of Defense.

[LiberalBassTurds]

It sure will be interesting. Given what you just wrote, and analyzing the map on you link, it looks like a real nightmare. Do you think the Russians have the willpower/resources for a protracted battle in that region?

I am glad all the folks on this thread are so knowledgeable about this subject. This has been a real education for me. Thanks for that!

LBT

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[MarMema]

Upon graduation, he spent two years in the Soviet military. Little is known of his Soviet military record, other than he served as a "fireman".(9) He intended to become a policeman but could not get into law school and so worked in agriculture.10 By the time he finished school (1990), the first cracks were beginning to appear within the Soviet Union. The Berlin Wall had fallen and the national republics of the USSR were beginning to clamor for a greater degree of independence. Glasnost permitted the publication of many of the previously repressed histories. Non-Russians were at last permitted to read uncensored accounts of how they lived before being subjugated by Russian and Soviet power. Ethnic and nationalist symbols of pride were rediscovered.(11) Freedom was in the air, and its scent invigorated these formerly repressed peoples and ethnic groups.

This is what the thread says. I don't see a link posted about the paratrooper training.

Everyone was in the soviet military, remember. It was not like it was anything special. :-)

[MarMema]

Do you think the Russians have the willpower/resources for a protracted battle in that region?

I think they are needing to do something new. There was something in the news about them calling an emergency UN meeting or something? Even Putin knows, imo, that change is in the air.

[AdmSmith]

Do you think the Russians have the willpower/resources for a protracted battle in that region?

It will just be more of the same i.e. more killing and destruction, and more hatred against the Russians. The Russians will probably kill more of the easy targets i.e. the moderates and what remains are the crazy fundamentalists. Remember that this is a century long fight and Putin must find a political solution that destroys the Wahhabis and protect the population against the corrupt military commanders.

You stated that you have followed this since 1997, then my information should not be news for you.

[LiberalBassTurds]

Thanks marmena, I hope so. All the work we're doing in the Middle east will be for naught if this region isn't dealt with properly.

All the best.

LBT

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[AdmSmith]

Sorry, the last line "You stated that you have followed this since 1997, then my information should not be news for you." was for MarMema

[LiberalBassTurds]

Thanks also AdmSmith. That's my fear...that they kill the usual suspects and won't root-out with the festering Islamikazi problem. Fingers crossed that they can.

FYI...that was marmena who was focused upon this since'97. I'm Kinda new to this subject.


LBT

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[LiberalBassTurds]

Hehe no problem...it's late. :)

LBT

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[LiberalBassTurds]

And I apologize for misspelling your nick MarMema. I think it's time for bed. :)

LBT

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[MarMema]

Given Chechnya's resistance against Russia/Communist rule for over a hundred years, what does Russia stand to lose in granting them their independence and why have they been so dogged in denying it?

Russia conceded to the chechens in about 96 and they went on to invade Dagestan. They put Sharia law in place and were a nesting ground for serious islamic terrorism. Their goal is to invade and "reconquer" all of the mountainous Causasus states, like Dagestan, even when the people themselves prefer not to be "liberated" by the chechens into Wahhabism.

It's not so different from what we are trying to do in Iraq. Chechnya is a country run by gangs and warlords, and no elected leaders have ever had control. They had human slave trade markets in Grozny and Urus-Martin, went into Moscow and grabbed a 6 year old whose fingers they removed on videotape and sent to her parents, and got money from OBL for beheading 4 workers from Britain and New Zealand.

Imagine Canada like this, right on your border. With stated plans to invade Washington, Utah, and Montana, for instance.

[MarMema]

No problem.

[amom]

Thanks for the ping. I read the rest of this thread. The information is excellent. Please continue.

[AdmSmith]

Here is an additional thread Elected Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov supported the U.S.-led coalition's intervention into Iraq.

[amom]

Thanks I'll check it out.