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Sikhs to defy French headscarf ban; [Chirac mulls surrender]
TIMES NEWS NETWORK ^ | SEPTEMBER 03, 2004 | RASHMEE Z AHMED

Posted on 09/04/2004 2:37:42 PM PDT by nwrep


LONDON: At least 30 Sikh children in Paris and its suburbs are to keep their turbans on as they enter their school gates on Thursday in a showdown between the global Sikh community's right-to-turban campaign and a controversial French law.

The new law makes it illegal to wear Sikh turbans, Muslim hijabs or Jewish yarmulkes to school. Outsize crucifixes are a no-no as well.

The Sikhs, estimated at roughly 10,000 in France, are the smallest minority affected by the proposed ban, but their Europe-wide campaign has been the loudest.

On Wednesday afternoon, Mejindarpal Kaur of the campaign group United Sikhs representing British Sikhs told TNN the French Sikhs' battle for the turban was not over.

Kudrat Singh, United Sikhs director in France said, he was hoping against hope that the new law would "not force any Sikh school child to stay away from school because a right to education is every child's human right. About 150 French Sikh children will be affected by the law".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: assassins; chirac; eu; europeanunion; france; french; gandhi; islam; moslems; murderers; punjab; sikhening

1 posted on 09/04/2004 2:37:43 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: nwrep

What is it with France? They object to the war on terror in Iraq, but fight it on the homefront by banning head scarves?!


2 posted on 09/04/2004 2:39:38 PM PDT by geopyg (Peace..................through decisive and ultimate VICTORY. (Democracy, whiskey, sexy))
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To: geopyg
"What is it with France? They object to the war on terror in Iraq, but fight it on the homefront by banning head scarves?!"

Because the French understand that the only thing worth fighting over is a fashion statement.

3 posted on 09/04/2004 2:40:53 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

LOL!


4 posted on 09/04/2004 2:43:04 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: CWOJackson

LOL! Point to CWOJackson!


5 posted on 09/04/2004 2:43:19 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: nwrep

I wonder, do the French allow muslim women to have ID photos taken with the veil on?


6 posted on 09/04/2004 2:44:06 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: nwrep

I suspect that the Sikhs will win. When that b*tch Indira Gandhi attacked their holiest shrine (the Golden Temple) her Sikh bodyguards sent her to hell in a handbasket. All men carry knives (can't remember the name) stashed in their hair inside the turbans to "Protect the Faith".


7 posted on 09/04/2004 2:44:18 PM PDT by BullDog108 (Know Your Enemy! http://bvml.org/webmaster/enemy.html)
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To: nwrep

Sikhs are good people, but no one is denying their kids a free public education. They are demanding the right for "a free public education while looking like circus freaks, and stirring up the mad Muslims."

Thanks to their fellow religious-headgear wearers, that practice is indelibly associated with hate and terrorism.

The answer is probably a judicial determination that Islam is not a religion, but a criminal conspiracy, and therefore Islamic practices are not religious, and can be explicitly banned.

I mean, I'm waiting to hear, say, Hamas front CAIR condemn the Chechens' massacre of children.

(Cue SFX: crickets)

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F


8 posted on 09/04/2004 2:46:01 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: nwrep

They look utterly disgusting! Take the ugly things off and come into the real world.


9 posted on 09/04/2004 2:56:15 PM PDT by tkathy (There will be no world peace until all thuggocracies are gone from the earth.)
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To: BullDog108

To become men that knife must taste blood......


10 posted on 09/04/2004 3:00:12 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: joesnuffy

For the Gurkhas too. (Even if it is your own blood...)


11 posted on 09/04/2004 3:02:41 PM PDT by BullDog108 (Know Your Enemy! http://bvml.org/webmaster/enemy.html)
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To: tkathy; F14 Pilot
Take the ugly things off and come into the real world.

Do you know anything about Sikhs? I suggest you take some time to learn. They do live in the real world, and they have been defending the weak and oppressed in the Indian subcontinent for hundreds of years. Guess what that usually meant?

12 posted on 09/04/2004 3:20:24 PM PDT by risk
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To: CWOJackson
"Because the French understand that the only thing worth fighting over is a fashion statement."

ROTFLMAO

13 posted on 09/04/2004 3:21:59 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: risk
A lot of Americans think the Sikhs are a sect of Islam. They could not be more wrong. They were bad-@$$ mf-ers that defended India against the mohammedan jihadis during their conquest of India.

Some stupid Texan killed a Sikh after 9/11 think he was muhammaden. He currently serving a life sentance for his stupidity/cowardice.

14 posted on 09/04/2004 3:24:59 PM PDT by BullDog108 (Know Your Enemy! http://bvml.org/webmaster/enemy.html)
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To: DannyTN
Did you see the movie "The Patriot"?

Remember the French officer the morning of the big battle. He was all "a-splendor" in lace, gilded thread and ruffles. His sword was probably dull and his pistol rusty, but he looked marvelous. It's not about how well you fight, it's all about how well you look.

15 posted on 09/04/2004 3:25:09 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: BullDog108

I'm not saying the Sikh way of life is perfect. I just admire their tenacity and concern for other human beings of all religions. Their goal was to help people find common spiritual ground among the minefields of their doctrines. They were peaceniks with weapons and a willingness to use them for the benefit of their communities.


16 posted on 09/04/2004 3:28:41 PM PDT by risk
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To: CWOJackson

I haven't seen "The Patriot". If I ever do I'm going to be thinking of this through the whole thing. LOL


17 posted on 09/04/2004 3:31:36 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: geopyg

If they don't force the Muslims to assimilate it will be far, far worse for France.


18 posted on 09/04/2004 3:36:56 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (Michael Steele ... WOW!)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Zahmahkibo
The solution is simple..
Face facts, and declare Islam as a criminal/gang organization..
Then - simply outlaw the wearing of gang clothing or symbols..

In that manner --- Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.....will not be denied their legitimate right to practice a LEGITIMATE and SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE religion...

I DEFY anyone to prove that Islam as practiced today, is a Socially Responsible "religion".

Until they can rid themselves of the lunatic, murderous lunatics within their Mosques --- they should be regarded as nothing more than a murderous criminal gang...

Semper Fi
20 posted on 09/04/2004 4:19:45 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek...But I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: risk

Let them go back to the Indian subcontinent then. Or take the ugly things off.


21 posted on 09/04/2004 4:35:18 PM PDT by tkathy (There will be no world peace until all thuggocracies are gone from the earth.)
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To: tkathy

No. They're good people, and I welcome them here.


22 posted on 09/04/2004 4:37:58 PM PDT by risk
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To: nwrep
10,000 Sikhs against the rest of France?

Doesn't look anything like a fair fight.

23 posted on 09/04/2004 4:55:33 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Despise not the jester. Often he is the only one speaking the truth")
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To: nwrep

I know I'm parting with alot of Freepers on this one, probably to the flaming extent...

I don't see a difference between the rag, the skull-cap and the gold cross around the neck other than representing different religions.

(Clarification: Truth. As for me an my house, I follow the Lord.)

You know, back here in the IN GOD WE TRUST USA, we have a FIRST AMMENDMENT!

Please, don't get me started on the second one.

I think France is flailing in the wrong direction. Who really cares how you look? How about finding out what you think and your plans for life? (Sorry Muslims, you come up rather short on that one, besides a last big-bang.)

The correct answer, I think, is exactly what President Bush recently put forward in an ad: The Ownership Society.

This one is easy. Compare crime rates between housing areas to apartment areas. Thinking through that, I feel that once someone owns "a piece of the pie", they are much more likely to become a patriot of the host country.

If an individual fails to become a patriot of the host country? Please reread this rant... THEN.. If they remain Enemy of the State? Deportation... Or, another 'D' word.


24 posted on 09/04/2004 5:02:39 PM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (Which part of "Don't Mess With Texas" didn't you get?)
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To: geopyg
What is it with France? They object to the war on terror in Iraq, but fight it on the homefront by banning head scarves?!

The Muslims in France were forcing the French children who were not Muslim to wear the head scarves too. They beat some up and If I remember right may have even killed.

25 posted on 09/04/2004 5:48:51 PM PDT by Bellflower
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To: tkathy

Leave the Sikhs alone. They have endured tremendous persecution by the Muslims and Hindus--hence the obligation for Sikh men to carry a knife--and if they want to wear their traditional dress neither you nor French secularist nor any other western rationalist arbiter of "reality" has any right to object.


26 posted on 09/04/2004 5:54:13 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was)
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To: The_Reader_David

It's not any one garb I object to. This country is in big trouble unless these people assimilate. As is France.

You can't let one group wear their outfits and ban others. I never paid much attention before, but where I live, the cities are getting full of people wearing this.

I don't consider them religious, rather these are political in nature, with issues of power and control. I can't imagine the Almighty gives a hoot what anyone wears.


27 posted on 09/04/2004 6:05:10 PM PDT by tkathy (There will be no world peace until all thuggocracies are gone from the earth.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
10,000 Sikhs against the rest of France?

Doesn't look anything like a fair fight.

So make the Sikhs fight with one hand behind their backs.

28 posted on 09/04/2004 6:09:53 PM PDT by Do Be (The heart is smarter than the head.)
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To: tkathy

You don't know what you're talking about here.. Sikhs are wonderful people with a rich history and some of the best Americans around...get a clue before you speak.


29 posted on 09/04/2004 8:10:02 PM PDT by Awestruck (The artist formerly known as Goodie D)
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To: nwrep

I happen to like the Sikhs, but if you France is 100% correct here.


30 posted on 09/04/2004 8:47:22 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember (Free Republic is 21st Century Samizdat)
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To: Awestruck

Sooner or later, in a post 9/11 world, the Sikhs are going to have to come to the realization that their getups are very hostile and aggresive looking.

I'm sure they are fine people or whatever. There were lots of fine people in Nazi Germany.


31 posted on 09/04/2004 9:00:57 PM PDT by tkathy (There will be no world peace until all thuggocracies are gone from the earth.)
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To: tkathy

Their "getup" as you call it is neither "hostile" nor "aggressive looking" as you call it.. just because you are too ignorant to tell the difference between muslim and sikh doesn't give you the right to lump them all together.. the Amish have headcoverings too.. wanna kill them?


32 posted on 09/04/2004 10:55:30 PM PDT by Awestruck (The artist formerly known as Goodie D)
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To: tkathy

Yeah, only subhuman imbeciles wear turbans!
/end sarcasm

Grow up.


33 posted on 09/04/2004 10:57:45 PM PDT by Tuba-Dude (Beer: breakfast of champions.)
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To: Awestruck

Any more I come to realize why some individuals tend to put "Ignorant" and "Republican" together. It's just a matter of needing to put the muzzle on a few select people...


34 posted on 09/04/2004 11:00:40 PM PDT by Tuba-Dude (Proud Republitarian)
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To: Awestruck
The sikh I've met I found to be nice and honorable. I also support them in this as is the right type of action to take against the ridiculous headscarf ban.

Not the taking of hostages over it. Which is even more insane.

35 posted on 09/04/2004 11:02:29 PM PDT by CJ Wolf (But hey what do I know, I like the amish too.)
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To: tkathy
"I can't imagine the Almighty gives a hoot what anyone wears."

But still given that statement, it's ironic that you do.

36 posted on 09/04/2004 11:05:29 PM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: nwrep

Never met a Sikh or Ghurka I didn't like and respect. Good warriors, in the best meaning of the term.


37 posted on 09/04/2004 11:07:15 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: CJ Wolf

Both the doctors (a husband and wife team) who delivered my children are Sikh.. I've known them for over 20 years now, and respect and trust them greatly.

I also had a Muslim female dentist once... she did a root canal on me without anesthetic... I tried to tell her it hadn't kicked in yet.. she told me I wasn't feeling pain, it was something else, and continued despite my protests.


38 posted on 09/04/2004 11:18:30 PM PDT by Awestruck (The artist formerly known as Goodie D)
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To: Awestruck

There are times when I think Sikhs and Ghurkas are humanity at its finest.

Ask a Sikh or Ghurka to watch your family interests as you go into a fight. He'll pass it off to the oldest member of the clan, then he and all the younger members will fight by your side to the death.


39 posted on 09/04/2004 11:24:02 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

I'd like to send a team of them to Russia right now to deal with their terrorist problem.


40 posted on 09/04/2004 11:57:43 PM PDT by Awestruck (The artist formerly known as Goodie D)
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To: Awestruck

Who said anything about killing??? The sikhs can continue to be fine people after they take off their headscarves.


41 posted on 09/05/2004 2:38:28 AM PDT by tkathy (There will be no world peace until all thuggocracies are gone from the earth.)
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To: tkathy

You really are a very ignorant person. Don't speak about that which you don't know. You sound just like a democrat.


42 posted on 09/05/2004 2:51:54 AM PDT by flaglady47
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To: tkathy

The problem is, that they are not allowed to cut their hair. The turban holds it together. So actually if they are not allowed to carry their turbans they would be not allowed to practice their religion. And in contrast to that fascist terror ideology some people refer to als "Islam", the turban in Sikhism is a central part of the religion.


43 posted on 09/05/2004 3:30:14 AM PDT by counterproductive
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To: tkathy
Hmmm, I can imagine that the Almighty cares what one wears: under the Old Covenant men were to cover their heads when praying, and there is a prohibition in the Torah against wearing wool/linen blend clothing (look it up if you don't believe me). Under the New Covenant, the Holy Apostle Paul enjoined woman to cover their heads while praying (hence the Orthodox Christian head-scarf which Mohammed copied as a standard of feminine modesty and his followers turned into bizarre imprisoning attire like the burqa.) There are likewise plain scriptural taboos about nakedness (witness the story of Noah and his sons).

The vestments of the High Priests and Levites are specified in great detail in the Torah, while Orthodox Christian clergy, by Holy Tradition, have particular forms of dress (even the lowly subdeacons like myself are expected to wear a cassock when in church and have particular vestments when serving in the altar.)

44 posted on 09/05/2004 7:45:01 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was)
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