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Arab mercenaries in Beslan citizens of Syria, Jordan (trained in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan)
Itar-Tass ^ | Sept. 5, 2004 | Itar-Tass

Posted on 09/05/2004 11:30:21 AM PDT by FairOpinion

BERLIN, September 5 (Itar-Tass) -- Islamists, who took part in the taking of hostages in a secondary school of Beslan, North Ossetia, were citizens of Syria and Jordan, reports Bild am Sonntag with the reference to German secret services.

The newspaper said that terrorists from the Magomed Yevloyev group came to Beslan to order of Shamil Basayev. They were drilled in training camps of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

German secret services fear that Russian missions abroad may become targets of Chechen Islamists in the future. For instance, Russian embassies in EU member countries may be attacked, the newspaper said.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; alqaedarussia; beslan; globaljihad; ossetia; terrorism; terrorists; trainingcamps
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The Global Islam terror needs to be fought with the Bush doctrine.

I am amazed at how little the US Main Stream Media is covering this. I guess they don't want to remind Americans of the existence of terrorism. After all, Kerry in a major speech about his vision of the "new America" didn't say a word about it, as if it weren't even a concern.

1 posted on 09/05/2004 11:30:23 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

A bit more info: The Russian learned from our prisoner problems: none of the terrorists were captured alive.



New data on Beslan school attackers
http://www.rbcnews.com/free/20040905150232.shtml

RBC, 05.09.2004, Vladikavkaz 15:02:32.According to witnesses, 32 militants were involved in the school siege in Beslan, Sergey Fridinsky, Deputy Prosecutor General for the South Federal District, told reporters today. He said the bodies of 30 of them have been found. Four bodies were found last night. There were people of different ethnic origins among them.

Earlier, the number of the Beslan attackers was put at 26. Fridinsky stressed that none of the rebels managed to escape. None of them was captured alive, either.


2 posted on 09/05/2004 11:33:29 AM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: FairOpinion
I am amazed at how little the US Main Stream Media is covering this.

I'm not, because they never covered all the atrocities the chechens performed in the 90's.

Putin said it a few years ago - it's on my FR page, they want a global caliphate. But the liberal press likes to claim he is just saying that to get support for his suppression of the chechen "freedom fighters".

In spite of the fact that BBC admitted and printed about OBL having sent millions to the chechens ten years ago to behead western hostages.

3 posted on 09/05/2004 11:33:50 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema

I remember Putin stating in an interview that he repeatedly warned Clinton himself about the increasing dangers of terrorism, but Clinton ignored him.

From the way Puting said it, he was totally disgusted with Clinton because of this.

That is why he embraced Bush, a President who finally recognizes and fights terror.

I hope Putin will re-think helping the Iranians acquire nukes.


4 posted on 09/05/2004 11:43:21 AM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: FairOpinion
I was in Russia repeatedly during Klintoon's administration. The Russians thought he was a huge joke. Remember when they had him speak to their Duma and there were only a few people who even showed up? Then they never applauded at all, just sat there with wooden faces. Some got up and left halfway through.

In all the kiosks were Matrushka dolls with Clinton's women faces, starting with Monika, and each successive doll had another of the women on it, Jennifer Flowers, etc, till you got to Hillary in the very center as the smallest doll. In retrospect I should have picked a few of these up.

5 posted on 09/05/2004 11:47:23 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: FairOpinion
Islamists, who took part in the taking of hostages in a secondary school of Beslan, North Ossetia, were citizens of Syria and Jordan, reports Bild am Sonntag with the reference to German secret services...

I think I now understand why Russia and Israel have agreed to join forces to fight international terrorism.

The Russins plan on payback in Syria and Jordan.

6 posted on 09/05/2004 11:58:08 AM PDT by Robert357
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To: FairOpinion
No... it can't be true! Brokaw, Jennings and Rather haven't mentioned this... all they're talking about is the hurricane!

Islam is a religion of peace! It is against Islam to do these dreadful deeds!

Surely the Russians are to blame... the Dutch Foreign Minister, Bernard Bot's suggested so!

/sarcasm!

7 posted on 09/05/2004 11:58:41 AM PDT by johnny7 (C'mon... you sons-'o-bitches wanna live forever?! -'Fighting' Dan Daley USMC)
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To: FairOpinion
Islamists, who took part in the taking of hostages in a secondary school of Beslan, North Ossetia, were citizens of Syria and Jordan, reports Bild am Sonntag with the reference to German secret services...

I think I now understand why Russia and Israel have agreed to join forces to fight international terrorism.

The Russins plan on payback in Syria and Jordan.

8 posted on 09/05/2004 12:00:03 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: Robert357

sorry for the double post, I used the forward arrow on my browser and then messed up.


9 posted on 09/05/2004 12:00:45 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: FairOpinion
Beslan Lamentation (broadband required)
If you want an self-executing version, send me a message.
10 posted on 09/05/2004 12:15:53 PM PDT by Search4Truth (When a man lies he murders some part of the world.)
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To: FairOpinion; All

Please consider making a donation for the families.

HELP THE CHILDREN AFFECTED BY THE TERROR ACT IN BESLAN
http://www.moscowhelp.org/


11 posted on 09/05/2004 12:18:34 PM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (Triskaidekaphobia ? Never heard of it !)
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To: FairOpinion; MarMema
I am amazed at how little the US Main Stream Media is covering this.

Yes, thank God we live in the internet age now and days of a Pulitzer Prize winner mass liar like Walter Duranty, or a Walter Cronkite, called "the most trusted man in America". [Deep, sincere voice] "And that's the way it was"...:)

MarMema:
The Russians thought he was a huge joke.

That's very astute and good of them, but they must have also wondered why something like that was ever elected two times....

And you really should have bought some of the those Matrushka dolls with Clinton's women faces. You could make big bucks on Ebay today if you had. Or you could have stored them for your grandkids. OR you could of let me buy one!!! I'd love to have even one! :)

12 posted on 09/05/2004 12:18:37 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones
Correction:

... live in the internet age now and not in the days of a Pulitzer Prize...

13 posted on 09/05/2004 12:21:15 PM PDT by xJones
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To: Robert357

And now we have a US president who fights terrorism, instead of trying to restrain them.

Putin: Clinton Wasn't Interested in Fighting Terrorism
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/putin.htm

In comments guaranteed to raise eyebrows on both sides of the Atlantic, Russian President Vladimir Putin said late Wednesday he was disappointed that ex-President Bill Clinton seemed so uninterested in combating worldwide terrorism.

"I wouldn't want to go into any assessments of my colleagues," Putin first told ABC's "20/20" host Barbara Walters in an exclusive interview.

But then the former KGB agent revealed his dismay over Clinton's attitude toward the terrorist threat.

"The former president of the United States ... was in a very difficult situation. But even at that time, we certainly were counting on a more active cooperation in combating international terrorism."


14 posted on 09/05/2004 12:25:26 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: xJones

Presidential Affairs Dolls

15 posted on 09/05/2004 12:29:51 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: Robert357

No they wont. Russia will not make any strikes against either Jordan or Syria. Why do you think that? They have a defense treaty with Syria and Jordan is an friend of the west. Regardless of the nationalities of these terrorists they will be no strikes against any Arab/Muslim states by the Russians. The last strike (big stick) by the Russians against a terrorist training camp was by their strategic aviation who bombed the Pankisi Gorge.


16 posted on 09/05/2004 12:33:19 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: FairOpinion

Perhaps Russia will become less cozy to Syria?

Will this be part of what God uses to put a hook in Russia's jaw and drag it into the Middle East conflict between good and evil?


17 posted on 09/05/2004 12:42:05 PM PDT by Quix (PLEASE EMAIL ZELL MILLER AND OTHERS INSISTING HE SPEAK OUT LOTS)
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To: FairOpinion

Sounds like the Ruskies got that choice right, at least!

Thankfully.


18 posted on 09/05/2004 12:43:06 PM PDT by Quix (PLEASE EMAIL ZELL MILLER AND OTHERS INSISTING HE SPEAK OUT LOTS)
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To: FairOpinion

I think Putin has had his hands somewhat tied by the old guard. THIS however has cut him free.


19 posted on 09/05/2004 12:43:34 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: Tommyjo

They should nuke Georgia.


20 posted on 09/05/2004 1:20:40 PM PDT by Lessismore
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To: FairOpinion
Their home cities in Syria and Jordan should be destroyed as they contain a disease..
21 posted on 09/05/2004 1:22:32 PM PDT by Fast1
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To: FairOpinion
A bit more info: The Russian learned from our prisoner problems: none of the terrorists were captured alive.

I hope that is just for public consumption. Hopefully, the truth is "none of the terrorists will ever be seen alive again, but a few were captured".. and are being questioned so the Russians can focus their vengeance.

22 posted on 09/05/2004 1:28:10 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (Beslan -- the true face of Islam.)
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To: FairOpinion
Thank you! Going to the website, though, I read this message:
"Our on-line store is overcrowded in this moment."'

It's Sunday so I'll have to wait to even call them, but at least those dolls are still available.

Unfortunately, my 14 year-old daughter saw it and wants it to add to all her Pink Flamingo memorabilia. She loves decorating her room with kitsch.

Thank God, we've sheltered her from any Elvis souvenirs so far.:)

23 posted on 09/05/2004 1:30:18 PM PDT by xJones
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To: FairOpinion

Arab Ambassadors of Good Will placemarker.


24 posted on 09/05/2004 1:35:16 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: FairOpinion
Islamists ... were citizens of ... Jordan

Dollars to donuts they were of the "Palestinian" variety....

25 posted on 09/05/2004 1:41:01 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Quix

Will this be part of what God uses to put a hook in Russia's jaw and drag it into the Middle East conflict between good and evil?

This horrible event along with 9/11 sure makes one wonder why
God is AWOl...


26 posted on 09/05/2004 1:48:53 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone

GOD IS *NOT* AWOL AT ALL.

But, He does, at times, have to pull back His protection and allow satan's compulstions to rob, kill and destroy to have sway in order for

HUMANS

to LEARN, given their thickheadedness,

that life apart from God

is and only results in

DESTRUCTION AND DEATH.


27 posted on 09/05/2004 1:55:43 PM PDT by Quix (PLEASE EMAIL ZELL MILLER AND OTHERS INSISTING HE SPEAK OUT LOTS)
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To: Quix

GOD IS *NOT* AWOL AT ALL.

Maybe you are right, seems the Islam followers are following their God, and guidebook/Koran...what about the other Gods? Why would an all powerful and compassionate God allow these things to happen? Is this a nonsensical test of belief?


28 posted on 09/05/2004 2:01:42 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: FairOpinion

"amazed that MSM is not covering this..."

Once the connections are all clear and set out,
Bush should have a joint announcement with Putin.

Or the new US Intelligence Czar.
The Al Quaeda connection must be saturated into the public's awareness.


29 posted on 09/05/2004 2:03:46 PM PDT by edwin hubble
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Robert357

When did the Russians & the Israeli's decide to join forces??? this is news to me . The Russian's need to get over their xenophobia if they are to learn how to beat the jihadi savages as opposed to just doing a "Stalin" on the bastards not that the jihadi's don't have it coming.


31 posted on 09/05/2004 2:25:46 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 REACH OUT & THUMP SOMEONE .50BMG REACH OUT & CRUSH SOMEONE!)
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To: Tommyjo

There is more than one way to skin a cat besides sticking it's head in a boot jack & jerking on it's tail ! And you can bank on the fact that the Russian Bear will get even in the time & place of it's choosing .


32 posted on 09/05/2004 2:30:50 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 REACH OUT & THUMP SOMEONE .50BMG REACH OUT & CRUSH SOMEONE!)
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To: Nebr FAL owner
When did the Russians & the Israeli's decide to join forces???

Click on link to story about Sharon-Putin discussing terrorism

Sharon told Putin that, "We must concentrate political and intelligence efforts so as to destroy terror." The two agreed that cooperation in the security, intelligence, and humanitarian fields would continue...

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is to meet Sharon in Jerusalem on Monday for talks likely to center on the need for greater global anti-terror efforts following the deadly seizure by militants of a Russian school, officials said Sunday....

Lavrov, who is conducting a Mideast tour, is also due to meet Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom on Monday.

In addition to the terror issue, Lavrov and the Israelis will also discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israeli allegations that Syria is behind Palestinian attacks on Israelis and bilateral Israeli-Russian issues, other Israeli officials said.

Let's see they are going to talk about Syria, but wasn't Syria where some of the Belsan terrorists came from? I wonder what they are going to discuss regarding Syria?

33 posted on 09/05/2004 3:11:45 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: LayoutGuru2
US Ambasidor has been given US money to give to Russian Red Cross to aid Belsan. Russian Red Cross has requested aid.

I would suggest if you wish to give money to give through a known agency such as the Red Cross, just to be on the safe side.

34 posted on 09/05/2004 3:13:40 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: MarMema; Calpernia; Velveeta; Honestly; Revel; lacylu; SevenofNine; jerseygirl; Letitring

Ping


35 posted on 09/05/2004 3:18:35 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: Tommyjo
No they wont. Russia will not make any strikes against either Jordan or Syria. Why do you think that? They have a defense treaty with Syria and Jordan is an friend of the west.

See post 33 this thread for news article on meetings to take place on Monday in Isreal.

You may be correct, if however Syrians and Palestinians from Jordan were a significant part of the Belsan terrorists, I think things will depend upon what those governments do to stop terrorism (visibly and quickly).

The Russians have had two airplanes, a bomb at a major rail/subway station, and now a school attacked by terrorists all in about a week's time. I think the Russian bear is not going to react very well to all that and may start lashing out very shortly.

36 posted on 09/05/2004 3:22:19 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: rolling_stone

"Why would an all powerful and compassionate God allow these things to happen? Is this a nonsensical test of belief?"

I have been a Christian (or at least try) for the last 5 years. What I know is that God created every one with a free will. It was these men's free will that caused this madness. I have found that God does not allow evil of this kind to last. I also know about my God that these murderers will be punished for knowing the right choices and choosing such an evil path.

For every evil Satan or his followers commit, God rights it 100 fold. I have seen this in my personal life and speak by experience. Hope this helps.


37 posted on 09/05/2004 3:49:24 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: Robert357

Yes, DO be careful when donating online. MoscowHelp.org appears to be legit.

See my post #90 here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1207776/posts?page=90#90


38 posted on 09/05/2004 3:51:21 PM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (Triskaidekaphobia ? Never heard of it !)
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To: Robert357

Yes, DO be careful when donating online. MoscowHelp.org appears to be legit.

See my post #90 here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1207776/posts?page=90#90


39 posted on 09/05/2004 3:52:18 PM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (Triskaidekaphobia ? Never heard of it !)
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To: iThinkBig
What I know is that God created every one with a free will. It was these men's free will that caused this madness.

That's my point, apparently then this was a test of belief..Why for what purpose?

40 posted on 09/05/2004 3:53:56 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Lessismore

Hold it right there! Zell Miller is from Georgia!


41 posted on 09/05/2004 3:54:42 PM PDT by 2nd Amendment
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To: 2nd Amendment

Zell Miller is from the State of Georgia. Joe Stalin was from the country of Georgia.


42 posted on 09/05/2004 5:34:47 PM PDT by Lessismore
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To: FairOpinion

Well I was one for two. I said they would be Saudi and Jordanian.


43 posted on 09/05/2004 5:38:33 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema

I think the most important part is that they trained with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, i.e. they ARE Al Qaeda.


44 posted on 09/05/2004 5:40:43 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: rolling_stone
The story is that just after they were freed from the USSR, a group of children there were visited by a vision of Saint George. He told them to convert from paganism to Christianity, and they were sort of getting started in that direction already.

After that he told them to watch out for their little ones. Even though it was about ten years ago, as the Russians will, they blame themselves for any and all tragedies. It's a spiritual self-chastizement.

45 posted on 09/05/2004 5:46:29 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: xJones; MarMema
Looky, looky here.
46 posted on 09/05/2004 5:56:04 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

LOL, the ones I saw in Moscow were not that sophisticated, but the idea does seem to be still alive.


47 posted on 09/05/2004 6:02:05 PM PDT by MarMema (Ikcheria is a gateway to hades)
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To: rolling_stone; All; backhoe; Bennett46; betsyross60; BlessedBeGod; Brad's Gramma; DeweyCA; ...

QX: GOD IS *NOT* AWOL AT ALL.

RS: Maybe you are right, seems the Islam followers are following their God, and guidebook/Koran...what about the other Gods? Why would an all powerful and compassionate God allow these things to happen? Is this a nonsensical test of belief?

QX: FIRST, a warning . . . GOD Himself insists:

1) His ways are 'higher than our ways' --whatever that means, it implies that finite man trying to judge an infinite God will likely fail miserably before getting out of that starting blocks--and THAT failure will have nothing to do with the infinite AUTHORITY difference--but merely the CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND difference.

Still--God is not capricious and must be consistent with His nature and His Word. However, there are plenty of mysteries in His Word.

2) God Himself declares that those not in GENUINE DIALOGUE, RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM--REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB *CANNOT* understand spiritual things--at least beyond a certain unstated, probably idiosyncratic, point.

3) I mostly . . . enter these sorts of issues hereon with weariness, wary-ness and sadness. Nevertheless, as the saying goes, someone's got to do it.




1.0 Cutting to the chase, it boils down to the issue of LOVE. God COULD have created humans as bioengineered, faithful robots.

1.1 He CHOSE to create humans that He might have fellowship with spiritual creatures made somehow in His image, after His nature--IN A LOVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM AS FRIENDS.

1.2 He also chose for them a destiny of ruling and reigning with Christ--evidently over countless galaxies/universes/dimensions and countless ages.

1.3 It is evidently quite crucial to God and His priorities that we learn to rule and reign with Christ after His nature--incredibly self-less, sacrificial, servant-hearted--INCREDIBLY COSTLY LOVE.

1.4 My own GUESS is that God MAY be very determined to have all creation based on a foundational currancy of that kind of costly Love. He notes that "ALL CREATION GROANS, WAITING AGONIZINGLY IN EAGER EXPECTATION FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD." Whatever that means, it seems to mean that all creation is overwhelmingly burdened under the weight of destructive, deadly, polluting SIN--missing the mark of perfection--as in archery--SIN--and is most eager to be delivered of it.

1.5 And, the paragon pinacle of God's nature, priorities, perfection is HIS LOVE. And He requires those of us to rule and reign with Christ as His brothers, joint heirs--must be saturated through and through--as much as practicable, workable--incredibly experientially, it seems--with that quality and nature of Love.

1.6 And, though we cannot bring ourselves to that lofty state and quality of being, it does seem to require our excruciating choices, persistence, efforts, cooperation with Holy Spirit as HE CONFORMS US TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.

2.0 But there's a crucially important problem. One doesn't command Love, per se.

2.1 Love, to be Love, must be a CHOICE away from NONLOVE.

[Which kind of puts satan in an interesting light. But that's a long other issue long on futile and silly conjecture and short on fruitfulness.]

2.2 And, it MUST BE a REAL choice. It cannot be a pseudo-choice--a choice in name only. It MUST be a REAL CHOICE WITH REAL, DIFFERENT CONSEQUENCES FOR A LOVING CHOICE vs A NON-LOVING CHOICE. If there are no DIFFERENT REAL CONSEQUENCES--THEN THERE IS NO REAL CHOICE.

3.0 Adam and Eve flunked the CHOICE test of Love. And thereby spiritually and by ingrained character, all mankind became polluted with sin and sin nature--forever destined to be flawed and in rebellion against God--unable to have a relationship with God at all--apart from God's grace, God's plan for Salvation.

3.1 From Adam to Christ--blood sacrifices pointed the way to the ultimate Sacrifice on Christ's Cross. The ultimate, paragon example of incalculable LOVE--THE GOD MAN--CHOOSING TO OBEDIENTLY FOLLOW THE FATHER'S WILL TO THE CROSS--AND to THE RESURRECTION AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

3.2 GOD'S JUSTICE HAD BEEN TRIUMPED BY HIS MERCY AND LOVE. THE JUSTICE WAS MET IN CHRIST. CHRIST'S SELFLESS LOVED TRIUMPHED AND SET THE PARAGON STANDARD FOR ALL CREATION OF THE FOUNDATIONAL VALUE.

4.0 But until the time of Christ's return to set all things right and banish evil from the planet--at least for a season--1,000 years (at the end of the 1,000 years, Scripture indicates satan will be loosed rather briefly to test those born during that time--to give them a REAL CHOICE--after which he'll be imprisoned--evidently for all endless time).

4.1 But satan is rather terminally annoyed--enraged, actually. He fancied himself equal to God. He wasn't thrilled at all to be kicked out of Heaven. His only feeble retaliation is to attempt to throw sand into God's eyes by killing, robbing from, destroying God's crowning creation--mankind.

4.2 Rebellion against God--against the paragon of perfection, creation, Love, wholeness, beauty etc.

can

only

be--can only result in

unmitigated

EVIL.



5.0 That evil has, since Adam, pained, polluted, troubled, destoyed, killed everyone quickly or slowly. Until THE CROSS, death reigned ultimately supreme.

5.1 At THE CROSS, and the empty tomb, death was conquered and brought to heel. Satan lost.

5.2 Supreme Love overcame supreme evil.

6.0 THAT EVIL STILL KILLS.

7.0 It also illustrates as few object lessons can. Man cannot live apart from God. CERTAINLY, man cannot live in health, abundance, wholeness, serenity, beauty, perfection--IN TRUE AND LASTING, ETERNAL-LIFE LOVE--apart from God.

8.0 I believe that one of the reasons God will insure that the USA eventually ceases to be Israel's protector [and woe be us when that day comes]--is to demonstrate to all mankind, all creation--that even a democratic republic founded on Christian principles cannot--by man's human effort apart from God--bring about a perfect society.

9.0 The simple truth is, that in and of our own nature and devices--we degerate quickly into unspeakable evil. Civilized people like to pretend that it's not true about THEM. But it is true. Any evil could more or less be perpetrated by ALMOST anyone IF their upbringing, conditioning or merely current circumstances set the stage sufficiently for it.

9.1 The mettle to resist evil 100% completely, perfectly in all contexts at all times facing all contingencies--for a lifetime--even for a day or a week or month--is simply not in us. If it were, Christ's death would have been unnecessary.

9.2 And, that evil, whether RELATIVELY minor or monumental--HAS REAL PAINFUL, HORRID, HORROR FILLED, DISPICABLE CONSEQUENCES. REBELLION AGAINST GOD ALWAYS DOES. It doesn't always show immediately or vividly. But it always does.

10.0 The pharisees had no monopoly on white-washed tomb; self-righteous--WE ARE BETTER THAN THEY mentalities. It began with Adam and Eve and very vividly with Cain.

10.1 I have come to think that the white-washed evils are among the blackest and most horror filled--especially in the name of RELIGION.

10.2 Note that I hate religion. Christianity is about God reaching to man. Even Christian RELIGION is about man making an idol of a list of rules--fooling themselves that they can control the relationship by playing machiavellian games with the rules and fooling themselves that they are successfully reaching up to God based on their human constructions on the issues involved--particularly the RULES involved. God says the letter of the law brings death but The Spirit brings liberty.
10.2 Note that I hate religion. Christianity is about God reaching to man. Even Christian RELIGION is about man making an idol of a list of rules--fooling themselves that they can control the relationship by playing machiavellian games with the rules and fooling themselves that they are successfully reaching up to God based on their human constructions on the issues involved--particularly the RULES involved. God says the letter of the law brings death but The Spirit brings liberty.

11.0 You mentioned Islam. It has been abundantly documented elsewhere that the consturction of Moslems who construe Allah as God Almighty--is a historical fallacy. Mohammad cleverly usurpted the long standing tribal deity--a demonic moon god--allah--as his focus. Satan must have been wonderfully pleased. Mohammad was wary of the visions and voices and initially wanted to forsake them as demonic--which they clearly were as the blood-thirstiness of so much of the founding documents proves. But Mohammad's cohorts persuaded him otherwise. And, as they say, the rest was history.

11.1 I personally believe that God's statement that those who earnestly and authentically SEEK HIM, SHALL FIND HIM--I believe that to be so even if they are mistaken in labelling Him insultingly by a tribal demonic moon god's name.

12.0 CHRISTIANITY is unique among all the world's religions. ONLY Christianity--AUTHENTIC CHRISTIANTY--declares that Salvation--eternal RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD--is by FAITH--NOT EARNING IT BY WORKS. Good thing. Flawed, imperfect, sinful works by flawed, imperfect, sinful creatures could never EARN a perfect RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

12.1 I wish to note quickly that even Scriptural congregations can skew--too often quickly skew--their practices into idolatrous RELIGION away from RELATIONSHIP. It seems to me that about a year and a half after founding, most any local congregation with most any set of Scriptural rules is in danger of becoming a deadly MAN RAN (vs Holy Spirit ran) religion.
13.0 To briefly recap and summarize a key point: There can be NO LOVE, without a genuine, costly REAL CHOICE between LOVE vs NON-LOVE. And choices toward NON-LOVE MUST RESULT IN SUFFERING, PAIN--ELSE THE CHOICE IS NO CHOICE AND UTTERLY NONSENSICAL.

13.1 It is NOT how can a Loving God allow such--How can a Loving God NOT allow such. He must--else there is NO LOVE. There are only robots, droids, The Assimilated Borg.

14.0 Given that GOD IS ALTOGETHER LOVE; LOVING; GOOD ALL THE TIME; ALL THE TIME HE IS GOOD . . . GIVEN THAT HE IS PERFECTION AND INFINITELY MORE SENSITIVE, TENDER-HEARTED, COMPASSIONATE, EMPATHETIC than mere mortals--what can HE DO; how can HE FEEL in the face of such a horror as the recent Russian situation.

14.1 BTW, Christ demonstrated all this in His life and certainly His death on the cruelest of Crosses. No other God-man ever truly existed. And certainly no other spiritual giant of history every claimed to be God; lived demonstrating miracles over death itself; offered Himself as the ultimate blood sacrifice--and rose the 3 day--for many days visible and conversing with over 500 witnesses as proof. There is no equal in all of history. Satan pretends otherwise. It's just part of his usual lying, robbing the truth from the witless and destroying of hope.

14.2 With this somewhat belabored preface, we come to the recent horror in Russia.

15.0 It is my conviction at 57 years, that God has more compassion and caring in His little toenail, as it were, for all the suffering children--than all the rest of mankind combined.

15.1 I don't know for certain therefore, what. But I conjecture the following. I do so based on what I've learned of God's nature and heart. There's some annecdotal information confirming it. But it's certainly not at all clearly laid out in Scripture. Evidently it's not a priority in God's eyes, to have done so.

16.0 I believe that each and every child--all the more so for the tender hearted truly seeking good--I believe that each and every 'innocent' child has at the point of death more of a demonstration of God's compassion and probably some option based on their life, heart and choices to that point--to accept an eternal relationship and life with God through Christ, or not. Nothing else makes much sense to me. Certainly this is not a doctrine that I teach, per se. It would be difficult to impossible to prove it by Scripture at all.

17.0 We have examples in the Old Testament of God requiring the Israelites to wipe out whole tribal groups including their animals. Incredible. Sometimes, God seemed to do such sovereignly as at Soddom and Gomorrah. And, we see in prophecies regarding our own end times era, that God is going to wipe ALL evil men off the face of the planet. THE MEEK SHALL TRULY INHERIT THE EARTH--LITERALLY.

18.0 HE ALONE is able to factor in all the good/evil aspects of individual lives at such moments.

19.0 The suffering is real. The pains of the children and of the parents and siblings are real.

20.0 BUT I KNOW FROM MY OWN ABUNDANTLY PAINFUL LIFE, THAT GOD DOES NOT WASTE SUFFERING. I know from many long dark nights of the soul that--in many respects--especially when responded to with a HEART OF FAITH--that suffering really is a special grace. IT REALLY IS A SPECIAL GIFT. Somehow, SUFFERING REALLY DOES YIELD FOR US A GREATER WEIGHT OF GLORY TO OUR LIVES, PERSONS AND ACCOUNT THROUGHOUT ETERNITY.

21.0 The long line finally winds into the room where his wife ahead of him is beheaded. His neck is placed on the line and the blade barely brushes a hair on his neck AND HE IS INSTANTLY OUT OF HIS BODY OBSERVING THE WHOLE THING PAINLESSLY AND SERENELY. HE FELT ABSOLUTELY NO PAIN. And, then quickly ascended to Heaven with his angels to The Lord.

22.0 That's the sort of thing that I believe AN ALL LOVING, ALTOGETHER GOOD GOD DOES WITH THE 'INNOCENT' IN THE WORLD.

23.0 I put innocent in quotes because all of us are NOT innocent. Anyone who's had small children and an open mind realizes that rebellion and defiance are there the first week of birth. Nevertheless, small children make greater or lesser choices toward or away from Love. And evidently the heart choices matter enormously to God.

24.0 One can get into the issue of ultimate reconciliation for all. One normally orthodox fellow I know wonders if ALL creation is not God's effort to reform his old buddy satan. I don't know how God will ultimately balance out all these issues. I know it will be consistent with Scripture and with His Nature. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be consistent with our assumptions about either. But all such conjectures run into problems with at least a Scripture or 3. And, they are fruitless.

25.0 We KNOW from Scripture what we need to do to agree to and receive an eternal relationship with God through confession, repentance and receiving Christ's Blood as our Salvation.

26.0 Certainly we can know from the sense God gives all of us as we observe His majestic creation that HE IS GOD and we are NOT. Anyone but a fool would choose eternal life with a perfect Loving God vs ANYTHING LESS. And ANYTHING LESS easily and automatically becomes hell--any distance from God, is hell.

27.0 Certainly folks currently have the capacity to rail at God about the Russian children's suffering and worse suffering. But it's not recommended. God knows what He's doing. He allows what He will allow. He keeps close accounts. He is altogether just. And, He is altogether Loving. And, His Mercy triumphs over judgment. Those are the facts. All else is noise and vain conjecture.

28.0 Some contend that a God that allows suffering cannot be Good or cannot be Almighty. I think it's utter insanity to presume to judge God. And to do so with God who has put Himself on The Cross for our eternal salvation is utter insolence as well as utter stupidity.

29.0 There are mysteries in life which we have too little information and probably too little capacity to comprehend in our finite state. Our arrogant 'scientific' age is not inclined to accept such much at all. Doesn't change the facts.

30.0 Our era will have much worse than the Russian tragedy. Some people, Scriptures indicate, will curse God and die in utter defiant rebellion. It's not necessary. God's ways, by definition are right, just AND LOVING. Thankfully, HE REALLY IS A LOVING GOD. I pray all who read these humble words may find Him so abundantly in their lives.

Blessings,


48 posted on 09/05/2004 7:28:58 PM PDT by Quix (PLEASE EMAIL ZELL MILLER AND OTHERS INSISTING HE SPEAK OUT LOTS)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


49 posted on 09/05/2004 7:36:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: lupie

PING

FWIW


50 posted on 09/05/2004 7:37:47 PM PDT by Quix (PLEASE EMAIL ZELL MILLER AND OTHERS INSISTING HE SPEAK OUT LOTS)
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