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SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS: RUSSIA BLAMES BLOODBATH ON AL-QAEDA
Daily Record ^ | 9/0604 | Jon Kelly

Posted on 09/06/2004 4:45:27 AM PDT by kattracks

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To: We Happy Few

Everyone has a different idea as to which WW it is, so perhaps I'll just begin refering to it as "World War Whatever."


51 posted on 09/06/2004 7:47:11 AM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: fat city
Oh, and welcome to WWIII.

Make that WWIV, if you count the Cold War as a war.

52 posted on 09/06/2004 7:53:12 AM PDT by WashingtonSource (Freedom is not free)
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To: Angry Enough
global cancer growing. Who is going to have the courage to stand with us and stop it


Cowboys. /no sarc

53 posted on 09/06/2004 8:08:07 AM PDT by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: NEBO

Good point about Putin and appeasement.

This question, if not dodged, should puzzle and muzzle an anti-war advocate:

When HAS appeasement ever worked? Hummmm?

Fact: It has NEVER "kept the peace". Instead, it has given aggressors, like Adolf Hitler & Saddam Hussein, more time to strategize and execute a better war plan to kill many more. Example: Before and during WWII, Hitler was allowed to order the slaughter of 6 Million Jews. And before Operation Iraqi Freedom (1991-2003), Hussein was allowed to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Ironically, the UN and its mission in Iraq to “keep the peace” is proof of how worthless and deceitful the UN is. The UN allowed Hussein to reign with terror and killing. The UN could and would not confront Hussein even though he was guilty of crimes of mass murder. Hussein violated over a dozen UN resolutions in ten years time, including the Gulf War cease fire agreement Hussein made in 1991 on up to the final UN resolution 1441 in 2002. Much blame could be attributed to UN corruption stemming from a secret contract with Hussein, publicly named the UN Oil for Food program. The oil contract was a scam, which reached approximately 100 Billion in proceeds. The contract did not feed Iraqis as it was intended; rather it made many political leaders very rich through “kick backs”. The contract involved the UN charging 2.2 % of all proceeds, which meant that the 100 billion in sales amounted to 2.2 billion directed to the UN treasury. This UN extortion by Secretary General Kofi Annan and other top officials directly involved lucrative contracts with France, Germany and Russia. And since these three countries were benefiting while Hussein was “contained”, they were not in a position to join our coalition to confront Hussein.

In summary, the absence of war does NOT define "peace".


54 posted on 09/06/2004 8:10:47 AM PDT by American Sovereignty Defender (I'm voting FOR Bush - before voting AGAINST Kerry)
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To: Clara Lou

well, the russians showed the bodies, fingerprints were done, why would you doubt it? And the Russians, confronted inn a small town by 17 terrorists who planned were caught off guard,,we would be too. Dont think that we would be any better. And the Russians didn't appear to start the shoot out. I think the outcome was foreordained. And criticizing the Russians and demanding some standard of proof that is very cynical {who are you to demand it anyway} is having your head inn the sand. Why are you so reluctant to believe al quaeda could be involved? Think they are sweet guys with no global reach who wouldn't do this?


55 posted on 09/06/2004 8:11:09 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: WashingtonSource; We Happy Few

Of course it may not be a "World War" officially, until we save the French from the bonds caused by their appeasement.


56 posted on 09/06/2004 8:21:25 AM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
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To: fortheDeclaration
FYI.... the American who was murdered on the Achille Lauro was Leon Klinghoffer. (Oct. 1985)

Thought you would like to know.

57 posted on 09/06/2004 8:31:06 AM PDT by Maigrey (Kerry: Up-the-Mekong-without-a-paddle... - Mark Steyn)
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To: sgtbono2002
A friend of mine who was a hostage at the Moscow theater crisis two years ago wrote this:

Pro Osetiyu pogovorim v drugoy raz, a luchshe voobshche ne budem sporit', potomu chto possorimsya. Moe mnenie traditsionno ne sovpadaet s tvoim. Ne v chechentsakh problema! Nel'zya prichislyat' vsyu natsiyu k terroristam v ugodu Putinu. Terrorizm - ponyatie internatsional'noe.

"Let's talk about Ossetia another time, but in general we won't argue, because we'll disagree. My opinion traditionally doesn't coincide with yours. The problem is not the Chechnyans! You can't count a whole nation as terrorists to Putin's benefit. Terrorism - it's an international understanding."

The lady lost her daughter and fiance at Dubrovka, yet refuses to blame the Checnyans.
58 posted on 09/06/2004 8:32:09 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Clara Lou

CL-

Perhaps you are correct. But really, when it comes to dealing with Islam we need to have a new standard for for "proof".

That is, we do not "prove" the involvement various terrorist/islamic groups or countries at all.

We have an automatic presumption of guilt for all Arab/terrorist countries. This remains the case until they have provided "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt that they are NOT involved.

If you combine this with a certainty of retaliation then we turn the tables from the presentsituation - Islam has to come to terms and accept the west on OUR terms. We allow them to exist in so far as they prove thoroughly and often that they are NOT involved in terrorist acts.....or development of WMD......or "hostage taking".....or (fill in the blank)

I hope that the Russians declaring that Al Qaeda is involved is a step in this direction. Even if they aren't involved at all (a dubious assumption) blaming them and retaliating against them offers no downside that I can see.

As far as we are concerned, we need to declare the retaliation that the Arab world will face should the US suffer a WMD attack. Then we can offer to entertain proof from Arab/muslim states that they are not involved in such activities, either directly, or indirectly.

We can be the ones that say "well, we understand that you are trying, but it just isn't enough.....if you only did XXX then we would be assured of your good will and maybe we will allow you to escape punishment"



59 posted on 09/06/2004 8:47:02 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: djf
But I think the world has to recognize this little feud between the Moslems and everybody else has been going on for about 1300 years, and it's getting a little old.

I'll add what I said right after 9/11...THE CRUSADES LIVE.

60 posted on 09/06/2004 8:59:17 AM PDT by ez (TERRORISTS FOR KERRY!!!)
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To: risk
Oh, and while you are at it, for the nth time, stop giving nuclear technology to the Iranians. Or the next time it won't be a school, it'll be a city.
61 posted on 09/06/2004 9:01:16 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: backhoe

Let see. The Muslims supported the Nazis starting in their early days. After World War II ended, welcomed them with open arms. The Muslims are the heirs to Nazism and Third Reich.


62 posted on 09/06/2004 9:03:27 AM PDT by Ptarmigan
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To: kattracks

The State Department urged both sides to show restraint.


63 posted on 09/06/2004 9:03:33 AM PDT by geros
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To: kattracks

When are they going to send a battalion of SPETSNAZ to Afghanistan?


64 posted on 09/06/2004 9:05:59 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets ("And oftentimes, to win us to our harm, the instruments of darkness tell us truths")
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To: debg
Arabs or not, they are Islamists, the enemies of civilization...rto
65 posted on 09/06/2004 9:24:33 AM PDT by visitor (dems are committing hairy kerry to defend our national security with a shifty politician like JFK)
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To: kattracks

All I can say to those Ally boys is: watch out, the Russians are on your tail. And Putin doesn't get mad, he gets even.


66 posted on 09/06/2004 9:30:59 AM PDT by pray4liberty
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To: kattracks
One problem with Putin pulling out all the stops and flattening Chechnya...

Al Qaeda would cheerfully sacrifice Chechnya and the Muslims there.

That is, more deaths for the Murder Cult of Dar al Islam to celebrate.

67 posted on 09/06/2004 10:20:22 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: MizSterious
If real proof bit you on the hindquarters, would you even know it?
Smart aleck comments reduce the effectiveness of the arguement.
On some of these threads, there are pictures of some of the dead perps, and they sure don't look like Chechens.
The pictures you mention aren't a part of the evidence offered by this Russian source whose main interest is deflecting criticism from Putin's government. The insider may be right. He just didn't offer any proof. Proof is necessary. Have a good day.
68 posted on 09/06/2004 10:22:14 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: kattracks
Not that flattening Chechnya would cause me much consternation...but..

If we could just manage, in the minds of the world, to redefine Islam as an ideology like communism or nazism.

Calling it a religion protects it. What we need, as well as military power, is a psyops/PR/propoganda war on the whole idea of Islam as some faintly cute and quaint religion.

Turn them into the Klan. The Nazis. Anything but a faith.

69 posted on 09/06/2004 10:23:31 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: kattracks
Approaching the time for obliteration of nations who dare to harbor these demonic barbarians.
70 posted on 09/06/2004 10:24:29 AM PDT by evangmlw
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To: cajungirl
well, the russians showed the bodies, fingerprints were done, why would you doubt it? And the Russians, confronted inn a small town by 17 terrorists who planned were caught off guard,,we would be too. Dont think that we would be any better. And the Russians didn't appear to start the shoot out. I think the outcome was foreordained. And criticizing the Russians and demanding some standard of proof that is very cynical {who are you to demand it anyway} is having your head inn the sand. Why are you so reluctant to believe al quaeda could be involved? Think they are sweet guys with no global reach who wouldn't do this?
Why don't you read what I said in my post, and comment on that instead of what you imagine I said?
71 posted on 09/06/2004 10:24:37 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: Ptarmigan
Let see. The Muslims supported the Nazis starting in their early days. After World War II ended, welcomed them with open arms. The Muslims are the heirs to Nazism and Third Reich.

Yes, among those many links are photos of the Grand Mufti with Nazi hosts, and Arab Nazi brigades during WWII. It is not a pretty sight, especially in light of recent events.

72 posted on 09/06/2004 10:24:47 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: cajungirl

Most reports I've seen in the Russian media indicate that apprx. 10 of the 32 terrorists were from other Islamic countries: Jordan, Algeria, Yemen, Saudi, and a not-yet-determined African country (the terrorsit was black), in addition to expected Chechens and Ingush. There is little doubt that AQ was involved at some level.

Putin's problem is that one-fifth of Russia's population is Muslim, though the majority are apparently Sufis who ignore the jihad and other Koranic ideals. In the accounts of the burials in Beslan yesterday, Ossetian Muslim victims were being laid to rest alongside Orthodox Christians in the same cemetery.

Burning all the mosques and trying to eradicate 20 percent of the population would be a bad idea, as the chief effect would be to alienate the moderate Sufis (who are regarded as heretics by the Wahabis and others), whose inclination would be to join us in fighting OBL, AQ, and the others like them.


73 posted on 09/06/2004 10:26:39 AM PDT by Bogolyubski
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To: backhoe

I have seen those photos many times. Very disturbing and prophetic even. Sadly, many people don't know about it. It should be known to everyone.


74 posted on 09/06/2004 10:26:42 AM PDT by Ptarmigan
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To: fortheDeclaration
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

Bosnia-chechnia et al
75 posted on 09/06/2004 10:31:03 AM PDT by rang1995
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To: rang1995

chechnya---whoops


76 posted on 09/06/2004 10:32:48 AM PDT by rang1995
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To: RFEngineer

I appreciate your reasoned comments. My only points are A) there's no proof whatsoever offered by the government insider making the comment. The article is devoid of facts. I guess I remember too much of the Cold War, and what liars Russian commies were for the sake of the Party. I don't think that's changed. B) His comments may be right (I wouldn't be surprised if AlQaeda were involved) or they may be wrong. Russia made its own Hell because of its actions. Chechens don't need help hating Russia. It's just very difficult to conceive of the idea that human beings could murder innocent children. I hope there's a hell, and that all terrorists go there.


77 posted on 09/06/2004 10:33:49 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: debg

That school was big. The hostages were gathered in the gymnasium...in one room. Just because the hostages didn't see anybody who looked like an Arab doesn't mean there weren't any in the building. I just don't think all the details are out yet.


78 posted on 09/06/2004 10:34:14 AM PDT by virgil
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To: Clara Lou

"Chechens don't need help hating Russia"

Truer words were never said.....unfortunately, because of this hate, no matter whether historically justified or not, they and their culture are now doomed.

I remember a quote I read somewhere that was attributed to a Soviet General - when asked what he needed to conquer a particularly thorny objective he replied "Just give me one Chechen".


79 posted on 09/06/2004 10:57:55 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: Clara Lou

I read your post. You criticized the Russian actions and expressed doubt Al Quaeda was involved. I was commenting on those ideas.


80 posted on 09/06/2004 12:08:24 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: MizSterious

Why not World Wide War?


81 posted on 09/06/2004 12:11:53 PM PDT by We Happy Few ("we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother;")
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To: Clara Lou; fortheDeclaration; cajungirl

Fox News on Sunday stated a Muslim website claimed involvement in Beslan. However, nothing more today.

I also fired off an email to FOX to express my outrage. Many things in life have angered me, but none will equal not only the evil deeds done on innocent children by this cabal of offal, but this network's PC-girly-coverage of what 'really' happened to them. (We wouldn't want to wake up the andorid sheep in this country about what is at stake--a sensitive war is not one of the options--or that schools here are soft targets; or offend the Milquetoast Left; or some Muslims, you know, from the Religion of Peace---their silence in this country, let along elsewhere has been deafening!) A blogger came to the point:

If ANY ethnic group doesn't wish to be "profiled" and judged by the worst of their group --- they had better take action to distinquish themselves as part of the SOLUTION instead of the PROBLEM.

The best the network could come up with to describe what happened: deaths, militants. Cavuto at least used the word Terrorist. All the while numbing our minds with their silly breathless non-stop 'Florida Storm-a-rama 2004' nonsense...with no letup today...geez!!, Clinton surgery, etc..

I encourage all of you to contact them if you feel a protest is in order. Somebody, I don't recall the source, put news coverage in perspective:

The institutional reluctance of the press to render judgment over what values or conclusions serve the greater good is intentional.

To be literal, it’s called obscurantism: the practice of delivering vague truths and hiding key facts, with-holding information from the public and lying through selective omission.



82 posted on 09/06/2004 12:57:12 PM PDT by AWestCoaster (FACTS are stubborn things. Your entitled to your own opinion, but not entitled to your own facts.)
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To: kattracks

When is the reprisal coming? Let's roll, Pooty-Poot!


83 posted on 09/06/2004 12:59:32 PM PDT by GnuHere
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To: AWestCoaster

I wrote to them Saturday. To waste all the time they did on Geraldo's dramatic reporting on the "masterful" steering of the sailboat in the hurricane--when in fact it wasn't being steered at all, it was anchored at sea--was just infuriating.

Note to Fox: Furthermore, maybe videos of rain and wind ad nauseum are your idea of covering the news--but to some of us, it looks lazy, unimaginative, and repititious. There was other news afoot, but all we saw was Frances, with small bits about heart surgery slipped in here and there.

Pitiful, for a news channel.


84 posted on 09/06/2004 2:15:16 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: Maigrey

Thank you.
We must never forget!
Clinton cut a deal at Oslo to 'forgive' these murders
However, the terrorist died of 'natural causes'while in captivity. :)
Throwing cripples overboard ships
shooting children
Allah be praised!


85 posted on 09/06/2004 2:56:12 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: AWestCoaster

What you said! I cannot fathom the non stop Frances whilst these people bury their dead. Imagine if that had happened for 911


86 posted on 09/06/2004 3:29:48 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: kattracks

"Flags are flying at half-mast, and all television entertainment programmes have been cancelled." --BBC News

I respect the Russian people for that.

Here in America 3,000 people can die from terrorists, but Hollywood has to go on with the show.

Hollywood must be one of the plagues.


87 posted on 09/06/2004 7:56:04 PM PDT by Cedar
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To: WashingtonSource

Considering the 80,000 plus American KIAs and 250,000 battle wounded in Korea and Vietnam alone, I'd DEFINITELY call the Cold War WWIII.


88 posted on 09/06/2004 8:05:27 PM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: TexasCajun
Refresh my memory of the Bosnian air war Clinton fought
Don't forget the ground war. Clinton bypassed Wolsey in the CIA and sent almost a $billion to Iran to buy arms that were sent back through Croatia to our lovely Mujahedeen friends in Bosnia. He broke the UN arms embargo. He was not ownly our first black president, he was our first Muslim president.
89 posted on 09/06/2004 9:20:20 PM PDT by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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