Posted on 09/06/2004 7:12:32 AM PDT by gopwinsin04
The slaughter at Beslan was so horrific it was enough to test the faith of the most committed of Christians, Archbishop Rowan Williams said at the weeks end.
Williams has admitted that the slaughter had led him to momentarily question his faith in God.
He said it would be inhuman not to question one's beliefs in the light of such evil.
Dr. Williams said that the terrorists had perpetrated the most evil kind of action imaginable and insisted that the murdered children had not been abandoned by God.
The Archbisop quoted the Bible in which Jesus said it would be better for people who committed such offences against children to have millstones around their necks and to be cast out into the sea.
'He is in the middle of all the suffering and He is weeping for all creation and all those involved. All we can do is pray for the sorrowful and the dead.'
(Excerpt) Read more at icwales.network.co.uk ...
Just what I was thinking. Williams should know better.
The Archbishop can question his faith all he likes but it is his judgement that I question.
There is good and evil in the world, this notion is not new, it is biblical. It is high time that the clergy, and I include my own Catholic Church, recognizes that evil exists and must be confronted. The killing of murdering pigs does not offend the God of the Old Testament.
The Archbishop evidently yearns for a God who plays marionette and throws free will to the winds. I don't. Free will cuts a lot of ways Bishop. It allows evil but it also allows good to defeat evil and to defeat this kind of evil you must kill it.
It should be pretty clear by now that pacifism enables evil resulting in the killing fields of Cambodia, the slaughter in Rwanda, the gulags in the Soviet Union, the ovens in Germany and the mass graves in Iraq.
The clergy can close their eyes yet again but thank God, the soldiers of Christ won't.
Gee--Where was G-d during both World Wars? Where was He during the Holocaust? Where was He when the Titanic went down? I could go on and on. The point is that the World is simultaneously a beautiful and terrible place. Yes, very bad things happen, but we have to trust that its all part of His plan. If nothing else, history shows us that even horrific events serve as a trigger for good to ultimately prevail over evil.
Even though I am Jewish, it saddens me to hear ANY man of G-d so easily question his faith over something he should have learned in Theology 101. Its attitudes like this that make me fear for the future of Europe as a Judeo/Christian civilization.
As an Espicopalian, I can say this.
Under Williams, the Anglican Church and the Episcopal church to many of us seems to been on a PC move to minimize our old testament foundation.
Each Sunday, we have a reading from the Old Testament and a Psalm from David to be sung.
About 3-4 years ago I noted that the Old Testament readings were being replaced by what we would call PC New Testament readings. I commented about this to some friends originally from the UK. They said that their relatives and friends in the UK felt that Williams and his bishops were removing the old testament readings in the UK as they were too judgemental and harsh.
Apparently enough of us complained to the US National Church and that new trend has basically been stopped. For the most part our Sunday services have old testament readings. The suggested readings for each Sunday come from our National Church.
The new Bishops don't want references to the devil, hell and the impact of the devil on man. So when something terrible like this slaughter of innocents happens, they jump on the band wagon of why Did God allow this instead of blaming weak/evil men working for the Devil. To them it is easier to blame God than the evil men who committed terrible acts. They rush from judgement in most cases.
ping
"This subhuman barbarism is done in the name of a false, wicked god by the name of Allah, an alias of Satan. Allah is not the God of Abraham. He is a serpent.. an imposter."
BUMP!
There is an interesting episode in the Holocaust memoir "Night" by Elie Weisel.
The teeaged protagonist Eliezer is in a concentration camp and has to witness a young child hung. The child is so light that he doesn't die right away. He strangles for about half and hour.
Eliezer hears another Jew say, "Where is God?" Elie answers in his heart--"He is here on the gallows." He means God is dead.
Eliezer had been taught by his religious teacher that according to the Jewish mystical tradition--the Cabala--a person's relationship to God is one of questions. Your relationship with God is based on the depth of your questions. The point is that people of deep faith DO question. God doesn't answer until we die according to this teaching. That is the low point of Eliezer's spiritual journey.
Later, Eliezer sees some boys mistreating their fathers because the fathers have become a burden to the boys' survival. Elieser, who had said he didn't believe in God, prays to God that he won't abandon his father.
Of course, when he doesn't abandon his father, he is not abandoning God either. So he questioned God, but in the end his faith in God made him stick with his father and not abandon him.
"The slaughter of infidel children is a righteous act in the Koran because the age of the unbelievers is irrelevant."
I'm curious. I know nothing of the Koran, is there an online translated version available? What verse (or whatever term they use) is that?
Link doesn't work for me.
I forgot to add to my story about Eliezer that when he saw the innocent child die he was all answers--"God is dead."
He forgot that our relationshop with God is one of questioner. God has the answers.
Yes. I will look it up and bring it back here.
And more from the good archbishop
Muslims can go to heaven, says Archbishop
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
(Filed: 30/08/2004)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=VWVE5AO04FZNDQFIQMFCM5WAVCBQYJVC?xml=/news/2004/08/30/narch30.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=102978
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, yesterday vented his frustrations with the Church factions warring over homosexuality and also reminded Christians that they did not have a monopoly on the afterlife.
In a rare glimpse of his anger over the row that has overshadowed his first two years at Canterbury, Dr Williams said the debate had lacked grace and patience.
Dr Williams: church needs reasoned debate
He said that this had been aggravated by pressure groups with entrenched positions who posted instant reactions to events on their websites.
The Archbishop also admitted to failing to live up to people's expectations, a reference to the disappointment many felt that he had not been more radical over his opposition to the war in Iraq.
He surprised some at the three-day Greenbelt festival in Cheltenham, Glos, by declaring that Muslims can go to heaven.
Dr Williams said that neither he nor any Christian could control access to heaven. "It is possible for God's spirit to cross boundaries," he said.
"I say this as someone who is quite happy to say that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by Jesus. But how God leads people through Jesus to heaven, that can be quite varied, I think."
During a wide-ranging discussion, Dr Williams reflected his disappointment at the tone of the debate on homosexuality, and his dismay at the vitriol of many of the e-mails he had received.
"It is not so much that we have disagreement in the Church - that happens," he said. "It is more to do with how those disagreements are conducted. The dismissiveness, the rawness of the anger . . . need to be worked with."
Speaking about the furore that followed the appointment of the gay cleric Dr Jeffrey John as Bishop of Reading, a post from which Dr John later withdrew, Dr Williams said that both sides had suffered shock.
Dr John, who was recently installed as Dean of St Albans, was also a speaker at the festival yesterday.
The Archbishop said: "On both sides of the debate as it evolved, quite a lot of people had to learn that the Church of England wasn't just them, because what I heard a lot of on both sides of the controversy was 'we thought the Church of England was us and people like us and maybe one or two others who don't matter very much'.
"I was intrigued by the mirror imaging that went on there. There was a sense on both sides, therefore, of shock and dispossession, that it is not all ours after all. It is not full of faithful evangelicals, it is not full of enlightened liberals.
"Very quickly pressure groups can form and settle and decide where they stand and invest in where they stand.
"We haven't had an effective forum in which that process can be slowed, not just for the sake of putting things off but for the sake of mutual understanding. We haven't quite found that forum yet. It is not the General Synod. It is certainly not the trading of websites."
My long narrative about suffering, evil, pain and an Almighty, Loving God etc. at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1207992/posts?page=48#48
may be of interest to folks reading this thread.
It was in response to a poster asserting that in Russia, God was AWOL.
I think you're right.
However,
I don't think much of Believers' faith which hasn't been through sufficient fiery furnaces to cause them to serously doubt.
God has delcared that He WILL HAVE a tried and tested people for The Bride for His only begotten Son.
John the Baptist even was sobered severely near the end.
Jesus Himself asked aloud on The Cross--why . . . and sweat drops of blood anticipating The Cross.
I think that perhaps a worse horror today than an Archbishop having such doubts is that masses of people coming out of masses of seminaries [cemetaries according to some wags], have faith of such shallow dimensions as to be tested to the breaking point by a Michael Moore movie. THAT'S PRETTY PATHETIC!
I'm agnostic and even I find this pathetic.
What happened to those people is how your God calls you to stand, Mr. Williams.
During heavy flooding caused by La Nina, a priest refused to obey
evacuation orders and decided to stay back in town. As the flood
waters rose higher, he climbed to the roof of his house and
started praying to God for help.
After an hour of devout praying, a boat came by. The priest
refused the boat crew's help.
"God will come to my assistance," he said. And he remained on
the roof of his house.
After another hour praying, a canoe came by. The priest refused
the owner's help.
"God will rescue me," he said. And he remained on the roof of
his house.
After yet another hour of prayer, a helicopter flew by. Yet
again, the priest refused help.
"God will help me", he said. And again, he remained on the roof
of his house.
Despite continuous praying, the flood waters rose and the priest
eventually drowned in the raging water.
In heaven, he met God and asked Him, "Why didn't you help me? I
called for help and you didn't answer my prayers!"
"Didn't the help arrive? I sent a canoe, a boat, AND a chopper
to your rescue!"
WELL SAID.
THX.
WELL SAID.
THANKS.
I strongly agree.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.