Posted on 09/06/2004 7:12:32 AM PDT by gopwinsin04
The slaughter at Beslan was so horrific it was enough to test the faith of the most committed of Christians, Archbishop Rowan Williams said at the weeks end.
Williams has admitted that the slaughter had led him to momentarily question his faith in God.
He said it would be inhuman not to question one's beliefs in the light of such evil.
Dr. Williams said that the terrorists had perpetrated the most evil kind of action imaginable and insisted that the murdered children had not been abandoned by God.
The Archbisop quoted the Bible in which Jesus said it would be better for people who committed such offences against children to have millstones around their necks and to be cast out into the sea.
'He is in the middle of all the suffering and He is weeping for all creation and all those involved. All we can do is pray for the sorrowful and the dead.'
(Excerpt) Read more at icwales.network.co.uk ...
I say you are wrong about God not being there.
God, in my construction on reality, is very given
to holding the head, hands and hearts of the suffering very close to His own heart.
Particularly those with an earnest desire to know Him.
Very well said.
Thanks.
One more reason to be glad that I left the Episcopal Church.
AMEN!
Thanks for posting that great story.
That is our priest's favorite story. He works it into a sermon or comments about once a quarter.
He has a few other opportunities to for the guy to save himself thrown in.
His wrap is a little different:
"In heaven, he met God and asked Him, "Why didn't you help me? I called for help and you didn't answer my prayers!"
God's response" "I sent a canoe, a boat, and a chopper
to answer your prayers. When you refused to accept my help, I moved on to help people who needed me and would accept my help! I was really busy that day!"
Yeah, well,
Only God knows for sure.
Beautiful, densely potent writing.
Thx.
You are comparing apples and oranges. A teenage boy experiencing the terror of the Holocaust firsthand is different than the head of a large Church looking at a horrific incident from afar. You would think that the latter would have thought through these questions from a historical context--as such, incidents such as the one in Russia shouldn't cause them to question their faith.
It is common to questioning one's faith is common when experiencing horror firsthand. I can understand why someone suffering horribly may, at that moment, question the existence of G-d; the pain of the moment overrides all and blots out reason & rationality. The recent incident of the grief-stricken father of a dead Marine burning the van of the Marines who notified him comes to mind. It is natural that a person in those circumstances would feel hopeless and abandoned, even by G-d. The hard truth is that, as part of G-d's plan, we are all expendable--this is a very tough thing to accept. We just have to trust that there is a higher purpose. While this is not an easy thing, you would expect a seasoned man of G-d to keep this in perspective.
GREAT POSTER. THX.
Psalm 116
1 I love the LORD, because He has heard My voice and my supplications.
2 Because He has inclined His ear to me,Therefore I will call upon Him as long as I live.
3 The pains of death surrounded me, And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me; I found trouble and sorrow.
4 Then I called upon the name of the LORD: "O LORD, I implore You, deliver my soul!"
5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; Yes, our God is merciful.
6 The LORD preserves the simple;I was brought low, and He saved me.
7 Return to your rest, O my soul, For the LORD has dealt bountifully with you.
8 For You have delivered my soul from death, My eyes from tears, And my feet from falling.
9 I will walk before the LORD In the land of the living.
10 I believed, therefore I spoke, "I am greatly afflicted."
11 I said in my haste, "All men are liars."
12 What shall I render to the LORD For all His benefits toward me?
13 I will take up the cup of salvation, And call upon the name of the LORD.
14 I will pay my vows to the LORD Now in the presence of all His people.
15 Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints.
16 O LORD, truly I am Your servant; I am Your servant, the son of Your maidservant; You have loosed my bonds.
17 I will offer to You the sacrifice of thanksgiving, And will call upon the name of the LORD.
18 I will pay my vows to the LORD Now in the presence of all His people,
19 In the courts of the LORD's house,In the midst of you, O Jerusalem.
Praise the LORD!
John 11:
17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles[1] away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Now Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" 27 She said to Him, "Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world."
John 12:
9 Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead. 10 But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also, 11because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believed in Jesus.
Luke 16:
24 "Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
27 "Then he said, "I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' 29 Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 But he said to him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead."'
Job questioned and was considered righteous throughout the ordeal, by God.
It MAY not be evil to question when the fiery furnaces come. But one must come, at the end of the testing, to the same place as Peter and David . . . to whom could we go, Lord, but You. And, wherever one is, the depths of the sea, the highest heavens, the pit of hell . . . wherever, there is God.
I do suspect that the Archbishop MAY have much more of an anemic faith than I'd think even an altar boy would have.
GREAT QUESTION.
Thx.
The party is over for the liberals if the queen has her say. But she may just wind up having an unfortunate accident like her daughtrer in law Diana did. Oh those shadowy forces, Oh those Secret societies who would rule behind the throne....
Impressive that you have some potent spiritual insight in the midst of your agnosticism.
You might keep a better watch on your agnosticism. It may be crumbling beneath the surface while you pretend otherwise.
To those who would question their faith in G-d, you should remember that G-d does not work alone.
Before G-d brought on the plauges against the Egyptians in order to save the Israelites, he required Moses or Aaron to take action themselves, be striking something with their staves (Exodus 7:20, 8:13, 17:6), extending their hands or staves towards or over something (Exodus 8:2, 9:23, 10:13, 10:22), tossing something into the air (Exodus 9:8), making a mark or sign (Exodus 12:13), or merely getting up early to issue a warning (Exodus 8:16, 9:1).
But in no case did G-d do anything without a human act taking place first.
Passively relying on G-d to save you is a repeat of Exodus 17:6, it is a form of testing G-d. If you do nothing, you might well perish as did those Israelites who stayed behind in Egypt, refusing to believe Moses, Aaron, or the signs G-d wrought. In 1 Timothy 5:8, it is said "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." It's just another form of "testing G-d" from Exodus 17.
But if you take action, G-d promises to steady your aim, "traineth your hands for war, and your fingers for battle," and to "take hold of shield and buckler, and rise up to your help," and will "draw out also the spear, and the battle-axe, against them that pursue thee;" and "say unto thy soul: 'I am thy salvation.'"
But if you have no spear and no battle axe, the words of Psalm 35 cannot come to pass.
Works for me.
Dear Archbishop.....YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET! The book of Revelation is full of tragedy and horror as God reclaims his creation and the devil and his evil forces go full tilt.
"He said it would be inhuman not to question one's beliefs in the light of such evil."
"Rubbish. Those are not the words of a man who has a personal relationship with the Lord."
Indeed. Those are the words of a secular Social Worker trying to express some kind of empathy he neither feels nor cares about, to people he neither knows nor understands, about an event of which he is clueless.
I know this phoney takes his "faith" so seriously he became a Druid. Does anyone know whether he actually believes in Jesus Christ as the incarnate Son?
Am interested in your elaborating on the topic.
You really think the Queen could insist on a more conservative, Biblically sound Archbishop?
There are those who contend that She's more or less chief among the dark shadowy forces.
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