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Maori Men And Women From Different Homelands
ABC Science News ^ | 3-27-2003 | Adele Whyte

Posted on 09/06/2004 5:15:41 PM PDT by blam

Maori men and women from different homelands

Thursday, 27 March 2003

"A New Zealand Warrior and his Wife", an engraving from the journal of Captain James Cook's 1784 visit on Endeavour (Pic: State Library of NSW)

The male and female ancestors of today’s Maori people of New Zealand originated from different parts of the world, molecular biologists have said.

Their claims, made by Masters student Adele Whyte, the Tuapapa Putaiao Maori Fellow at Victoria University in Wellington, and her supervisor Professor Geoff Chambers, will be aired on ABC-TV’s science program Catalyst tonight.

By comparing the DNA of people from Asia, across the Pacific Ocean and New Zealand, Whyte and Chambers have revealed a 'living genetic map' of ancient Maori migration routes.

The findings confirm archaeological evidence that the ancestors of today’s Maori originally set out from mainland south-east Asia 6,000 years ago, hopped from island to island, starting with Taiwan, and arrived in New Zealand 800 to 1,000 years ago.

However the research also brings startlingly new evidence that as Maori ancestors migrated one group of islands to the next, men from Melanesian communities joined the boats. This changed the genetic mix, and lead to the differences observed in the genetic make-up of today’s Maori men and women.

The research involved two separate genetic mapping processes. The Southeast Asian homeland was confirmed by Chambers’ research into the frequency of two different genes that influence the body’s reaction to alcohol. He found that while Asian people have both gene types, Maori and Pacific Islanders have inherited only one.

He looked back along the trail of migration to try and work out where the gene was lost. The indigenous people from Taiwan have both genes, but a lower frequency of one - the very gene that the Maori now lack.

“We think this one was lost at the first step of migration, when people left what is now Taiwan,” Chambers told ABC Science Online.

Adele Whyte studied the genetic origins of Maori for her Masters thesis (Pic: Victoria University)

The second mapping process involved Whyte’s examination of sex-linked genetic markers, namely mitochondrial DNA in women, and Y-chromosomes in men. The research found that in addition to the alcohol genes, female Maori have other genetic markers which confirm their ancient Asian origin. To her surprise, however, the men have genetic markers that show a Melanesian ancestry.

“As a result of intermarriage along the migration trail, the signatures of the mitochondrial DNA from women have stayed more ‘island south-east Asian’, and the Y-chromosomes are more Melanesian,” Whyte told ABC Science Online.

“We think both men and women set off together, and recruited local guides who were probably men. Women stayed with the south-east Asian populations, and Melanesian men were recruited along the way.”

Genetic bottlenecks

Whyte also analysed the ‘haplotypes’ (groups of closely linked genes) carried on mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited only through the female line. Each population has a unique range of haplotypes. While Europeans have over 100 haplotypes in a particular region of DNA, studies so far have only found four different Maori haplotypes in the same region.

“The reason for this difference is what we call a genetic bottleneck. When people leave an island to go to the next island, obviously not everybody gets on the boat, so some of the genetic diversity is being lost,” she said. “Some of the maternal lineages may not have got on the boat, so they’re not carried on to the next place.”

Whyte has now identified 10 haplotypes in New Zealand Maori. “From that we have worked out that 56 women came to New Zealand to create the diversity of today’s population,” she added.

Whyte said these findings were consistent with Maori legend.

“The story I was told when I was growing up is that there was a fleet of seven great waka (canoes) that came to New Zealand," she said. "Every tribe knows which waka their ancestors arrived in. My ancestors were in a waka called Takitimu.”

“There might have been 20 people travelling in a canoe the size of a waka. Seven waka, that’s about 140 people. And if, as we think, about half or 56 of these people happen to be women, it does seem to tie in.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; different; dna; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; homelands; maori; men; mtdna; women
Melanesian=Black Islanders. The Melanesians were/are Negritos.
1 posted on 09/06/2004 5:15:44 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 09/06/2004 5:16:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
"Look! People from a strange land!"

"Let's whack them over the head and steal their women!"

3 posted on 09/06/2004 5:22:31 PM PDT by Nick Danger (www.swiftvets.com www.wintersoldier.com www.kerrylied.com)
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To: blam

This is all good, but how does it explain the fact that the language of the Maori is not particulalry related to either Melanesian or Taiwanese languages, but is a virtual clone of Tahahitian and very close to Hawaiian. Maori language is without a doubt Polynesian.

As are the Maori themselves. They are physically Polynesian, not Melanesian. Maoris look nothing whatever like Melanesians or Taiwanese.

I suspect that there has to be another explanation for these genetic findings. If a scientist comes up with findings that are obviously false, or that deny the reality of other observable facts, then that scientist really needs to go back and do some more work.


4 posted on 09/06/2004 5:34:56 PM PDT by John Valentine ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: JimSEA
I did a search on Kulabob And Manup (Cain And Abel) and here is what I got. Can you translate Vietnamese?
5 posted on 09/06/2004 5:39:37 PM PDT by blam
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: blam; John Valentine; All

The Maori are indeed Polynesian. There has never been any doubt among the Polynesian people regarding this issue. Now there is an issue among Polynesians about Fiji. Half of my Polynesian family consider them Melanesian and the other half consider them Polynesian. Me? They aren't American. So? This American of Samoan heritage gives little care about such issues. Hehe!


7 posted on 09/06/2004 5:42:16 PM PDT by MoJo2001 (Psychology: The art of turning stupidity into illness)
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To: John Valentine
"As are the Maori themselves. They are physically Polynesian, not Melanesian. Maoris look nothing whatever like Melanesians or Taiwanese. "

" I suspect that there has to be another explanation for these genetic findings. If a scientist comes up with findings that are obviously false, or that deny the reality of other observable facts, then that scientist really needs to go back and do some more work."

Read this excellent book. It could/will clear up things a bit.


8 posted on 09/06/2004 5:45:01 PM PDT by blam
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To: MoJo2001

See my post #5. Have you ever heard about two brothers named Kulabob and Manup?


9 posted on 09/06/2004 5:48:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The male and female ancestors of today’s Maori people of New Zealand originated from different parts of the world, molecular biologists have said.

"We live in two New Zealands!"
~John Edwards

10 posted on 09/06/2004 6:20:58 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: blam

Did you catch the Yahoo science article this AM promising genetic prooof that the earliest people in America were Melanesian by way of Taiwan, Japan and around some 10,000 BCE? Fits nicely with this.


11 posted on 09/06/2004 6:28:09 PM PDT by JimSEA ( "More Bush, Less Taxes.")
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To: JimSEA
"Did you catch the Yahoo science article this AM promising genetic prooof that the earliest people in America were Melanesian by way of Taiwan, Japan and around some 10,000 BCE? Fits nicely with this."

This One? See My Post # 12.

Did The First Americans Come From, er Australia?

12 posted on 09/06/2004 6:48:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: JimSEA
Let me guess....
The men are from Mars and the women are from Venus! The two world theory proved conclusively again through our undying heroes, the beaker busters. Since when did observable facts get in their way about any finding?
13 posted on 09/06/2004 6:51:49 PM PDT by DanielLongo (don't tread on me)
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To: Nick Danger

Interesting there was not an equal tranfer the other way.Hard to do when you're dead.The weak are supposed to inherit the earth.Different ways of looking at that.


14 posted on 09/06/2004 7:21:37 PM PDT by noodler
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To: noodler

Dope! the Meek will inherit the earth.The weak are but pavement.


15 posted on 09/06/2004 7:24:06 PM PDT by noodler
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To: John Valentine
Here's a complicated but interesting link.

Y Chromosomal Evidence For The Origins Of Oceanic-Speaking Peoples

16 posted on 09/06/2004 7:30:00 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Men Mars / Women Venus ping.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
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17 posted on 09/06/2004 9:38:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam

It doesn't make sense that the women would abandon their men for Melanesians, unless there was a shortage of men. This might be explained if they came under constant attack during their journey...this would have thinned the herd of men out and forced the women to take non tribal mates or remain barren.


18 posted on 09/06/2004 11:14:03 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: noodler
Dope! the Meek will inherit the earth.The weak are but pavement.

This is a gross misunderstanding of the word 'inherit'.

It really means that the meek ('pavement') will have no inheritance except the ground; i.e., the grave.

They will 'inherit' the earth by being buried in it by the vigorous ('pavers').

IOW, the pavement-pounders will be left in the dust, by the pavers-of-the-ways.

Progress marches on!
19 posted on 09/07/2004 1:08:26 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: ApplegateRanch

Never heard it explained that way. Is this Baptist understanding? Meek and weak would then have the same fate.I would like you to explain this to me either here or on a new post.Ping and I'll listen.


20 posted on 09/08/2004 9:00:16 AM PDT by noodler
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To: noodler
I thought that "Men were from Mars, and Women were from Venus"...

:-)
21 posted on 09/08/2004 9:03:34 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: blam

November bump.


22 posted on 11/26/2004 8:51:58 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

I wouldn't say the Melanesians were Negroids. I'm not sure but I think they, as well as the Aborigines of Australia, are cosnidered distinct from Negroids.


23 posted on 11/28/2004 7:27:13 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos
"I wouldn't say the Melanesians were Negroids. I'm not sure but I think they, as well as the Aborigines of Australia, are cosnidered distinct from Negroids."

I see them defined as Negritos...How that may differ from African Negros, I have no idea. (Negritos seem to pop up in a lot of places though.)

24 posted on 11/28/2004 10:30:46 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

No idea either, but the term Negrito is new to me. I think Aborigines are quite distinct from Negroids and not quite related to Caucasoids either. But then, looking at the range of Caucasians......


25 posted on 11/29/2004 1:04:13 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos
Negritos
26 posted on 11/29/2004 6:06:29 AM PST by blam
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27 posted on 04/05/2006 11:30:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

28 posted on 06/10/2006 5:05:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (All Moslems everywhere advocate murder, including mass murder, and they do it all the time.)
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To: blam

December bump.


29 posted on 12/21/2006 11:07:25 AM PST by blam
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To: John Valentine
"...but how does it explain the fact that the language of the Maori is not particulalry related to either Melanesian or Taiwanese languages, but is a virtual clone of Tahahitian and very close to Hawaiian. Maori language is without a doubt Polynesian."

Because language acquisition can be divorced from genetics. Your ancestry may be Irish, but you and your relatives here in the US speak English. You might have cousins born in Mexico who speak Spanish.

30 posted on 01/18/2008 7:36:59 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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31 posted on 02/23/2008 4:06:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/___________________Profile updated Tuesday, February 19, 2008)
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Story of Human Language, Course No. 1600, Taught by John McWhorter, Manhattan Institute, Ph.D., Stanford University

32 posted on 02/23/2008 4:10:44 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/___________________Profile updated Tuesday, February 19, 2008)
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To: John Valentine
that's not entirely true - I am a NZ Maori - I have seen quite a number of Taiwanese who could easily pass as Polynesian or Maori. In fact if my siblings lived in Taiwan or Hong Kong - very few people could tell any difference in physicality. Yes I have visited Asia quite a bit.
33 posted on 11/01/2008 6:28:29 AM PDT by nades
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To: John Valentine
as to the language - mutation. Maori languages have changed so dramatically since the advent of the European; that it is now called Book Maori as opposed to tuturu Maori (pre-European maori). As you can imagine - Tuturu Maori can not be taught in schools as each tribe had their own dialect - sure there were commonalities however the language was monosyllabic so meaning increased or decreased according to preceding, proceeding or successive actions. We have a clear indicator through DNA correspondence where we originated and distinct physical likeness is the seal for me. The ancient Taiwanese are approximately 30000 to 40000 years old. That also ties in with Maori and Mori-Ori folklore (of which I am a descendant of both - Toi is the father of Maori and Moriori alike.).
34 posted on 11/01/2008 6:29:10 AM PDT by nades
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To: nades

I agree that ALL polynesians probably are descendants of a group of people having their origins in what is not Taiwan, the Philippines and Indonesia.

There are linguistic links to early indonesian languages. For example, although the Indonesian word for a coconut is “kelapa” and a coconut tree “pohon kelapa”, there is another word used only poetically for the coconut: “Niur” Coincidence? I doubt it.

As another exercise look at the names of numbers from one to ten, not in Indonesian, which adopted many Arabic words,but at Javanese or Balinese and compare them to the Maori words. No one could deny the linguistic connection.


35 posted on 11/01/2008 7:42:06 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: John Valentine

in what is NOW Taiwan, etc....


36 posted on 11/01/2008 7:43:00 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: Nick Danger
yes...This is a PC'd version...

“We think both men and women set off together, and recruited local guides who were probably men. Women stayed with the south-east Asian populations, and Melanesian men were recruited along the way.”

37 posted on 01/23/2010 6:42:18 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: John Valentine

Someone just put a link to this thread - interesting. Narikela is the word of coconut in Sanskrit, nariyal in Hindi.


38 posted on 02/01/2012 10:53:56 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: Paul Atreides
The male and female ancestors of today’s Maori people of New Zealand originated from different parts of the world, molecular biologists have said.

A plausible scenario. An all-male raiding party arrives at an island inhabited by a different people, kills off all the males, and takes the women.

39 posted on 02/02/2012 7:56:20 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (I'd agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.)
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