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Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
Washington Times ^ | February 20, 2004 | By Charles Hurt

Posted on 09/07/2004 1:24:21 PM PDT by Calpernia

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To: KeyLargo

Vietnam POW: Hanoi Hilton Torturers Cited Kerry's Speech

A former Vietnam POW is alleging that his Hanoi captors specifically cited Sen. John Kerry's 1971 anti-war testimony to Congress as they brutally tortured him to get him to turn on his fellow GIs.

One-time Navy pilot Paul Galanti was shot down over North Vietnam in 1966 and spent seven years in the infamous Hanoi Hilton.

He told the Los Angeles Times on Tuesday that he learned of Kerry's April 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee while being tortured by his Hanoi Hilton guards.

According to the Times, "during torture sessions, [Galanti] said, his captors cited the antiwar speeches as 'an example of why we should cross over to [their] side.'"...


51 posted on 09/07/2004 4:18:39 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Eastbound

From Wolf Blitzer Reports' Brian Todd in Washington

The association with Fonda is too much for some veterans, including two members of Congress.

Republican Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham, a former Navy pilot and the first "ace" of the Vietnam War, was shot down in 1972.

"It bothered us, anyone that associated themselves with Jane Fonda, with Tom Hayden, with the antiwar movement. We just wanted to do our job, complete our mission for our country that sent us and come back alive. And having people like Senator Kerry protest that was kind of a slap in the face to us," says Rep. Cunningham.

And Texas Republican Sam Johnson, a POW in Vietnam, told the Washington Times Wednesday, "I think it symbolizes how two-faced he is, talking about his war reputation, which is questionable on the one hand, and then coming out against our veterans who were fighting over there on the other."


52 posted on 09/07/2004 4:22:35 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: petercooper

OPEN LETTER TO ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS


As a Prisoner Of War in North Vietnam for over seven years, I had to not only resist the efforts of the Communists to exploit me for military information and for propaganda, but also keep faith in our mission in South Vietnam in the face of near constant communist propaganda, the most effective of which was actually drawn from our own media . We heard the details of every anti-war riot and demonstration, every anti-war statement by opportunistic politicians and Hollywood celebrities--the same statements we were taking torture to not make.

In spite of that depressing input--or perhaps because of it--each passing day my convictions were strengthened that we were right to be there and that our cause was just. Experiencing Communism up-close-and-personal allowed me to know it as the evil it is; an ideology and political system based upon lies, slander, and deceit--not to mention the tens of thousands of lives terminated in North Vietnam alone just to impose it. I realized the people on the outside of the prison walls there in downtown Hanoi were no better off than I was on the inside.

The Communist officers and interrogators doted on the anti-war news from America, and considered the anti-war protesters as their allies, hence Jane Fonda's queenly reception there. They would often say to us, "Even if we are not able to win this war in the jungles of the South, we will win it in the streets of America." Ironically, that was the only truth they ever spoke.

This hoped for victory on the propaganda front contributed significantly to the tenacity and longevity of their military effort in South Vietnam, even in the face of horrendous defeats--most notably the 1968 "Tet Offensive" which was hastily hailed by our media as a watershed victory for the Communists. The longer war resulted in more casualties on both sides, no matter the outcome. This strategy was validated in the post-war memoirs of North Vietnam's highest leaders.

Fast forward to Iraq and the present. We are again fighting an evil, despotic regime based upon lies, slander and deceit, and which also owes it's survival to the elimination of tens of thousands of lives. But in this case, the justness of our cause is even more clear. International terrorists--Al Qaeda or otherwise--have been standing in line for a Saddam Hussein produced chemical or biological WMD for use against more innocent Americans; an attack that would be devoid of Saddam's fingerprints. So much for "containment". Every day that Saddam Hussein has been allowed to remain in power has been another day this could actually happen. And again--as futile as in this case it may be--Saddam and his War Council are depending upon the anti-war movement in America and around the world for their salvation. After his interview with Dan Rather, Saddam expressed to Rather his deep interest in the effectiveness of the American anti-war movement. Even while losing, you can be sure he will fight harder and more tenaciously to prolong the war unit his own propaganda and his "allies" in the streets of the world can have their effect.

So all you protesters out there, whatever your individual or collective motivation, I have no problem with your right to protest peacefully, thereby not diverting law enforcement from the more critical priority of real security. But just keep one thing foremost in your mind. Regardless of your naive pronouncements about wanting to "save the lives of innocent Iraqis and to bring American soldiers home", just as in Vietnam, you are encouraging our enemy to fight harder and longer, and more people will die. Get it? MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE!

Our strategy in the earlier gulf war--"Desert Storm" and our projected strategy for this war--"Iraqi Freedom"--proves our political and military leaders learned "the lessons of Vietnam". It's just a shame that you didn't.

Gerald Coffee
Captain, US Navy (Ret.)


53 posted on 09/07/2004 4:26:01 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: All

...admit to number one stooge of all time =
JOHN F. KERRY

54 posted on 09/07/2004 4:33:54 PM PDT by Gucho
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BUMP


55 posted on 09/07/2004 4:34:00 PM PDT by visualops (I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.)
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To: Calpernia
"...And who had to stand in and fight for John Kerry after he left six months early?", said Mr. Sampley. Now, there is a sound bite that should be addressed!
56 posted on 09/07/2004 4:39:50 PM PDT by pointsal
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To: Calpernia; TheStickman

Damn, I'd never read that before.
Very enlightening.
It seems impossible, but he's even more dishonest, calculating and despicable than I thought.

Stickman, have you ever seen this?


57 posted on 09/07/2004 4:40:38 PM PDT by visualops (I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.)
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To: Calpernia
Now, he's what I call a man. And a hero.
58 posted on 09/07/2004 4:47:30 PM PDT by pray4liberty (Pray the vote! http://www.praythevote.org)
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To: chainsaw

Not only was Kerry IN Paris. Kerry was a signer of the“People’s Peace Treaty.” A “people’s” declaration to end the war, drawnup in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from VietCong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditionsfor ending the war

The People's Peace Treaty

BETWEEN THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, SOUTH VIETNAM & NORTH VIETNAM

Be it known that the American and Vietnamese people are not enemies. The war is carried out in the names of the people of the United States and South Vietnam but without our consent. It destroys the land and people of Vietnam. It drains America of its resources, its youth and its honor.

We hereby agree to end the war on the following terms, so that both peoples can live under the joy of independence and can devote themselves to building a society based on human equality and respect for the earth. In rejecting the war we also reject all forms of racism and discrimination against people based on color, class, sex, national origin and ethnic grouping which forms the basis of the war policies, present and past, of the United States.

1. The Americans agree to immediate and total withdrawal from Vietnam, and publicly to set the date by which all U.S. military forces will be removed.

2. The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal, they will enter discussions to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam.

3. There will be an immediate case-fire between U.S. forces and those led by the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam.

4. They will enter discussions on the procedures to guarantee the safety of all withdrawing troops.

5. The Americans pledge to end the imposition of Thieu, Ky and Khiem on the people of South Vietnam in order to insure their right to self-determination, and so that all political prisoners can be released.

6. The Vietnamese pledge to form a provisional coalition government to organize democratic elections. All parties agree to respect the results of elections in which all South Vietnamese can participate freely without the presence of any foreign troops.

7. The South Vietnamese pledge to enter discussion of procedures to guarantee the safety and political freedom of those South Vietnamese who have collaborated with the U.S. or with the U.S.-supported regime.

8. The Americans and Vietnamese agree to respect the independence, peace and neutrality of Laos and Cambodia in accord with the 1954 and 1962 Geneva conventions, and not to interfere in the internal affairs of these two countries.

9. Upon these points of agreement, we pledge to end the war and resolve all other questions in the spirit of self-determination and mutual respect for the independence and political freedom of the people of Vietnam and the United States.

By ratifying this agreement, we pledge to take whatever actions are appropriate to implement the terms of this Joint Treaty of Peace, and to insure its acceptance by the government of the United States.

South Vietnam National Student Union

South Vietnam Liberation Student Union

North Vietnam Student Union

National Student Association

Saigon, Hanoi and Paris, December 1970

Signed: Amongst others, John F. Kerry!

Adopted by New University Conference and Chicago Movement Meeting, January 8-10, 1971


59 posted on 09/07/2004 4:58:24 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

Good docs.


60 posted on 09/07/2004 5:25:38 PM PDT by Eastbound ("Ne'er a Scrooge or a Patsy Be")
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To: Calpernia
From my post 32:

In the spring of 1992, he wrote a story about Clinton's conscience - wrestling about the draft while at Oxford. Theses stories by Talbott were big lies. Clinton rewarded Talbott by making him the number two person at the State Department. Sidney Blumenthal - The top White House spin master is a long time friend of the Clintons. Blumenthal is a former member of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).

Look here, from From “Mutiny Does Not Happen Lightly: The Literature of the American Resistance to the Vietnam War”

The game of the rich has caught up to Pig America. The Vietnamese have kicked ass out of U.S. occupational troops. More and more G.I.’s will no longer listen to Pig Nixon’s orders and are turning their guns around on the real enemy. The Provisional Revolutionary Government in Vietnam (Viet Cong) has led the Vietnamese people to complete victory.

–Roxboro School SDS- Cleveland Heights – June 4, 1972

Recently many articles have appeared in the movement press expounding the virtues of deserting and going AWOL. “Come to Canada and be a man.” “Soldiers are pigs,” “To remain in the imperialist U.S. Army rather than leaving is comparable to being a Nazi.” Last year there were, by Pentagon counts,, 250,000 AWOL’s and over 53,000 deserters. This has not made much of a dent in the fighting strength of the U.S.Army. That dent has clearly come from the heroic struggle of the Vietnamese people under the leadership of the NLF and the Provisional Revolutionary Government.

–New York Regional SDS distributed at Boston University - Feb. 22, 1969

Students for a Democratic Society = SDS

61 posted on 09/07/2004 5:29:01 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

Now THIS group: Youth Against War and Fascism was on Ho Chi Minh's Pen Pal list. Now THIS gets interesting!

My Dear -------

I have received your letter. You and the progressive American people, especially the youth, feel indignant at the barbarous crimes perpetrated in Vietnam by the U.S. imperialists who have thus besmeared the honor of the American people and the noble traditions of the United States. I am glad to learn that you and many other young Americans are actively endeavoring under varied forms to help push forward the movement against the war of aggression in Vietnam and in support of the Vietnamese people.

With affectionate greetings,

Signed, Uncle Ho

June 18, Nov. 25, 1965



On February 7, 1965, the U.S. began its systematic air massacre of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam). The U.S. also plans to bomb the system of dikes in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam which helps the North Vietnamese from drowning and starving. Just as the U.S. is attempting to drown in blood the liberation struggle of the South Vietnamese people because it is the model for liberation struggles everywhere, so North Vietnam is being bombed to bits because it shows all colonial and former colonial countries, by living example, that Socialism can solve their problems.

–Youth Against War and Fascism, Free University of New York - Aug. 27, 1966



As far as the Vietnamese are concerned, we are fighting on the side of Hitlerism, and they hope we lose. You are supposed to be fighting to “save the Vietnamese people from Communism.” Certainly Communist influence is very strong in the National Liberation Front, the rebel government. Yet most of the people support the NLF. Why ? The war in Vietnam is not being fought according to the rules. Prisoners are tortured. Our planes drop incendiaary bombs on civilian villages. Our soldiers shoot at women and children. Your officers will tell you that it is all necessary, that we couldn’t win the war any other way. We believe that the atrocities which are necessary to win this war against the people of Vietnam are inexcusable.

–Vietnam Day Committee, San Franscisco - Aug. 2, 1966.




62 posted on 09/07/2004 5:32:32 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

More from the “Mutiny Does Not Happen Lightly: The Literature of the American Resistance to the Vietnam War”

Look at the major leaders of the anti-war movement:


· Al Hubbard - Vietnam Veterans Against the War - signed the People’s Peace Treaty of 1971

· Jane Fonda - actress - signed the People’s Peace Treaty of 1971

See post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=59#59 for People's Peace Treaty

· Noam Chomsky, MIT

· Rev. William Sloan Coffin, Jr. Yale

· Rennie Davis, May Day Collective

· Rev. Daniel Berrigan,S.J.

· Dave Dellinger, People’s Coalition for Peace and Justice

· Daniel Ellsberg - MIT

· Richard Falk - Princeton

· Tom Hayden - Berkeley

· Abbie Hoffman - WPAX, NewYork

· Sidney Peck - People’s Coalition for Peace and justice

· Bobby Seale- Black Panther Party

· Benjamin Spock, doctor

· Gloria Steinem - author

· George Wald, biologist, Havard

· Cora Weiss - Women Strike for Peace


Many of the people who signed the various documents in “Mutiny Does Not Happen Lightly: The Literature of the American Resistance to the Vietnam War” appeared again as signers of the “Not In Our Name” ad that appeared in papers all over the country, denouncing Bush and the wars on terrorism and Iraq.




63 posted on 09/07/2004 5:42:05 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Eastbound

Thanks Eastbound. Still reading “Mutiny Does Not Happen Lightly".

So I have more to post. I feel like I'm just talking to myself here. Does anyone need this info?


64 posted on 09/07/2004 5:47:52 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: pointsal
And who had to stand in and fight for John Kerry after he left six months early?"

I agree: That was the concept that was startling for me, too. THAT is a living concept.

65 posted on 09/07/2004 5:56:03 PM PDT by bannie (Liberal Media: The Most Dangerous Enemies to America and Freedom)
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To: bannie

(snip)

Kerry’s Select Committee staff, in order to soft pedal thisabandonment, added in the report “We acknowledge that thereis no proof that U.S. POWs survived.”

Kerry’s “no proof” assertion, was an outright lie. It was aneffort by Kerry’s pro-Hanoi staff to bury our POW/MIA’sand further open the doors to trade with Vietnam.

Kerry maintained there was “no proof U.S. POWs survived,”but never produced evidence proving the left behind POWswere dead. Kerry has never answered the questions, who wasresponsible for their deaths or where their remains werelocated.

In fact, Kerry never demanded that Vietnam explain.

Kerry’s latest demonstration of support for the communistVietnamese is his prevention of the Vietnam Human RightsAct (HR2833) from coming to a vote in the Senate. He claimshuman rights in Vietnam would deteriorate if he allows theVietnam Human Rights Act out of committee and into law.

Michael Young, the chairman of the U.S. Commission on In-ternational Religious Freedom (USCIRF), disagrees.

In testimony delivered February 12 before the East Asianand Pacific Affairs Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Re-lations Committee (Kerry is Ranking Minority Member of thecommittee), Young said: “In its travels to Vietnam, the Commission and staff have found that over the last two years, already poor human rights conditions have deteriorated. Key dissidents were imprisoned or placed under house arrest. Churches have been closed and some destroyed. In addition,the government of Vietnam has intensified its crackdowns onreligious and ethnic minorities in the northwestern provinces and the Central Highlands — including ongoing campaigns offorced renunciation of faith.”

Kerry was instrumental in mustering shepherding the normal-ization of trade and diplomatic relations between the UnitedStates and Vietnam in 1995 and in 2001 helped passed theBilateral Trade Act (BTA) in the hope that expanded eco-nomic ties would improve Vietnam’s human rights situation. But according to Young, “increased trade has not led toprogress in the area of protecting human rights and basic liberties. More dollars have not lead to democratization. Andquiet diplomacy alone has not produced tangible results.

”The State Department ranked Vietnam among the 10 regimes worldwide least tolerant of religious freedom.

Within the last two years, 354 churches of the Montagnards(a Christian ethnic minority) were forcibly disbanded and morethan 50 Christian pastors and elders had been arrested in Dak Lak province alone.

Vietnam’s secret police executed three Montagnards by lethal injection simply for protesting religious repression. Hanoi’s communists are conducting organized outrages againstthe Montagnards, forcing Christians to drink a mixture ofgoat’s blood and alcohol and renounce Christianity.

Thousands have been killed or imprisoned or have just “dis-appeared.” The Montagnards lost one-half of their adult malepopulation fighting in Southeast Asia for the United States.Nevertheless, Hanoi John Kerry remains forever loyal to oldcommunist friends in Vietnam.

Click to download: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/abt_kerry_pdf.pdf.


66 posted on 09/07/2004 6:16:34 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

http://www.longwayhome.net/index.html



The Long Way Home Project presents “Men versus Myth” the first in a multi-part documentary series on the Vietnam War. Among the startling revelations: the best and the brightest served in Vietnam, the rest stayed home. The soldiers in Vietnam had the highest rate of volunteerism, were the best educated, and served for higher ideals than any fighting force that America had ever fielded. That he returned maligned and unwelcome is a travesty. That they were not “victims” but raised their families and became America’s community and business leaders is the amazing inspirational message of “Men Versus Myth”.


The Long Way Home Project presents the interactive television documentary “How We Won the War.” It was the summer of 1970. In South Vietnam the Communist forces were decimated and the countryside returned to friendly hands. After totally repelling desperate enemy attacks in 1968 and 1969, the American, Vietnamese, Australian and other Southeast Asia Treaty Organization forces had achieved what politicians and the media had said was impossible. Newly available historical information and the personal stories of the some of the major “players” of the period makes “How We Won…” both informative and entertaining.


Four successive administrations shed American blood and vowed to protect democratic South Vietnam from Communist takeover. The Long Way Home Project presents the television documentary “How We Lost the War”. Even with the military war won, the U.S. Congress, their supporters in the media, and activists in the Left had other ideas. The scale of our nation’s betrayal was unprecedented in American history and unworthy of a great nation. And yet the lessons that can be learned from the story are worth learning and will inspire future generations to vigilance and to service.


Long overlooked in the story of the Vietnam war are the South Vietnamese themselves. The Long Way Home Project presents the television documentary “The New Diaspora”, an inspirational look at their long history, their stories of hardship and struggle to reach freedom, and the success they found in their new countries. Both older and younger generations alike seek to find meaning in their new lives and yet rediscover and maintain a link with their heritage and a country that was left behind – a metaphor for a nation built by immigrants and refugees! With over a million Vietnamese-Americans in the U.S. and many thousands in other democratic nations around the world they form a living legacy to the commitment of the allied soldiers that fought for freedom and democracy.



67 posted on 09/07/2004 6:32:00 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia
Yes, it's definately relevant to the topic....

I hard copy and distribute many of these Kerry reports. Thanks very much for posting them.

68 posted on 09/07/2004 6:35:16 PM PDT by Eastbound ("Ne'er a Scrooge or a Patsy Be")
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To: All

69 posted on 09/07/2004 6:36:54 PM PDT by Gucho
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To: Calpernia

History Channel boycotts Long Way Home, http://www.ourpatriots.com

Three new films, including Mr. Magruder’s How the Campus Lied About Vietnam, http://www.i-served.com/MagruderArticlesIndex.html , clearly repudiate the campus version of the war. Magruder says exposing these lies is crucial to minimize dangerous new polarization in war on terrorism.

Leonard Magruder, President of Vietnam Veterans for Academic Reform, http://www.i-served.com/MagruderArticlesIndex.html has just sent out 50 free copies of his documentary, How the Campus Lied About Vietnam, as requested by universities and vet organizations all over the country. This is part of a new national campaign by his organization to promote using three new films on Vietnam to challenge the false view of the Vietnam War that has been institutionalized on campus to protect those who would not serve.

In view of the announcement yesterday by the History Channel that it will refuse to show one of the films, The Long Way Home, http://www.ourpatriots.com/ a four-part series, Mr. Magruder said that, to protest this media boycott, he will now continue to send out free copies of his film to all who request it as long as resources last.

The campus version of the Vietnam War also needs to be discredited because it is based on lies of the 60’s being recycled to attack the nation’s war on terrorism and could lead to another polarization and defeat.

This is the second time Mr. Magruder has launched a campaign against media bigotry. In 1986 he spent $8,000 in a successful national campaign to get PBS to show Television’s Vietnam, by paying to show the film himself on various TV stations across the country. This, along with a letter of appeal to all PBS station managers, precipitated a massive defection from the boycott. Narrated by Charlton Heston, the film showed how the national media distorted the truth about the Vietnam War. Wrote General Westmoreland to Magruder, “I congratulate you on your success in the showing of “Television’s Vietnam” on PBS stations around the country.” (letter, Sept.13, 1986)

Said The Washington Inquirer, “The most dedicated [on the PBS issue] is Leonard Magruder, who has been campaigning on behalf of Vietnam veterans for the last 6 years, having quit his professional job to protest against the treatment of Vietnam veterans.”

Mackubin Thomas Owens, who led a Marine rifle platoon in Vietnam in 1968-69, and is now a professor at the U.S. Naval College in Newport, Rhode Island, in a recent article on the Web refered to a “culture war” that continues to rage for the soul of America, the central objective of which is to control the way the past is portrayed (www.nationalreview.com/owens/owens060502.asp).

The significance of this is that “to control the past is to give meaning to the present and direction to the future.” Left/liberal academics continue to perpetuate a false image of the Vietnam War in an effort to impose their ideological agenda on student leaders of tomorrow. When this is publicly questioned, the invariable response, said Owens, is “How dare you question or ridicule the idealism of this holy period of history.” Mr. Magruder, who was a professor of psychology on three campuses during the 60’s said he was in complete agreement with Owens that “it was not idealism but hypocrisy.” This hypocrisy is made clear in three new documentaries, based largely on interviews with Vietnam vets, hat are having difficulty getting shown. “There are many forces in our society that would like to keep films like this from the public. We must protest this,”said Mr. Magruder.

Mr. Owens in his article went on to say,“There are two competing interpretations of the 1960’s.” In the anti-war version,the 60’s were “exciting, heroic, and uniquely infused with moral passion.” In the second version, “It was a time of incredible intellectual flatulence when precocious adolescents under the tutelage of Herbert Marcuse and the like affected a pose of moral superiority vis-a-vis their countrymen. It was a time when self-styled radicals embraced the enemy against whom their countrymen were fighting and dying.” This second version never mentions the legacy of the campus protestors, 250,000 South Vietnamese war dead, at least 100,000 summary executions at the hands of the Communists, a million and a half “boat people,” half of whom perished at sea, an equal number lost in “re-education camps,” a genocide in Cambodia, (over 2,000,000 lives lost), and an encouragement of Soviet adventurism. There is no question, said Mr. Magruder, that the campus war protestors of the 60’s ended up having supported genocide and tyranny, and if not stopped this time in their use of the same lies against the war on terrorism, they could end up destroying the nation.

Three documentaries have recently become available which emphasize the second, less flattering version of the 60’s. The importance of these films is that they clearly show that the war protests of the 60’s were ideologically motivated and rested on a false interpretation of the war more sympathetic to the enemy than to the American effort to save South Vietnam from Communist tyranny, and did great damage to the returned veterans. Said Mr. Magruder, “Bringing this out at this time of a new war, the war on terrorism, is extremely important as large segments of intellectual centers such as Harvard and Berkeley are recycling the same lies and again supporting the enemy, that is, the terrorists, just as they supported the Viet Cong in the 60’s.”

The first new film was recently mentioned in a news item out of CNS News.com, “Documentary Sheds New Light on Vietnam War.” Christel and Calvin Crane traveled 14,000 miles across America interviewing Vietnam vets, recorded in a four-part film, The Long Way Home Project, with commentary by General H. Norman Schwarzkopf. According to a promotional press release, the series provides “a more positive and unbiased look at the country’s longest war and highlights many of the misconceptions America has about the men and women who served the country in this conflict.” Said Christel Crane, “It reveals the stereotype of the Vietnam Veteran as being almost completely false.” Vietnam vet and former Sec.of the Navy James Webb said of this stereotype in a recent article in U.S.A. Today, “Those who avoided serving in Vietnam have played the main role in protraying the war as an immoral conflict...to justify not having gone.” The four-volume set of films sells for $69.95. Information on it can be found at www.longwayhome.net. Said the CNS press release, “So far there have been no agreements to broadcast the documentary.” The History Channel has just announced it will refuse to show the film.

The second documentary is Silent Victory, http://www.silentvictory.com/ produced by Don C. Hall and Annette R. Hall. It is the story of Company F, 51st Long Range Patrol (Airborne) Infantry. Over $300,000 went into the making of the film and it has won three awards at various film festivals, one reviewer telling the producers it had received “the highest rating ever.” Yet all cable and major networks have returned the film to the producers marked “sight unseen.” The film may be purchased from the film’s website, www.silentvictory, for $24.95.

The third recent documentary related to the Vietnam War was produced by Mr. Magruder, President of Vietnam Veterans for Academic Reform. In the mid 80’s, Mr. Magruder took his home movie camera to Vietnam vet parades in Chicago and Houston and interviewed 68 Vietnam veterans at random, asking them the question that had been studiously avoided by the national media, “What do you think about the campus war protestors.” Across the board, the general response was that the position of the protestors was “false, hypocritical, and damaging to the war effort.”- (The Stalwart, K.U. student newspaper).

The film that came out of these interviews is a 1 -hour representative sample from the 68 interviews and is titled How the Campus Lied About Vietnam. As President of a student organizaton Mr. Magruder is able to reach a large number of faculty, administrators, and student organizations through the campus Internet and has at least three times over the last few years asked for some group or class to sponsor a showing of the film, with no response. “There are any number of classes in political science, American history, Asian studies, etc., that touch on the Vietnam War that should have expressed some interest in this film,” said Mr. Magruder, “but since it is known that the veterans in the film seriously question the campus ‘peace’ movement, this type of film is especially threatening to academics.”

American students, in fact the whole country, must become aware, based on films such as these, and all the new books and revelations in recent years including memoirs from the enemy, of how wrong the academics were who engineered the anti-war movement. This could prove a fatal blow to the largely leftist ideological agenda that is tyrannizing American higher, and even secondary education and threatening to lead to a new polarization over the war on terrorism like that which occurred in the 60’s. If students can see how academics lied to students about Vietnam in the 60’s, maybe they won’t take too seriously faculty pronouncements on the war on terrorism. The following is an example of what is happening along those lines.

Steve Miller, a junior at Santa Monica High School, CA, said this recently about the indoctrination that is going on in a June 14, 2002, article in Frontpage Magazine:

“There is a war going on in America, - a war of ideology. It’s being waged in public schools like mine. The problem is much more severe than many are aware. Those running the school and teaching the students have such deeply held left-wing beliefs that they cannot help but spread their agendas to the young people. This is evidenced in nearly ever facet of the school and has resulted in the indoctrination of thousands of students, some unaffected, but many more misinformed, misguided, and misdirected.

“Subsequent to 9/11, the school newspaper condemned the notion of a military response and a Muslim leader was brought to the school to explain the glory and splendor of Islam. My history teacher handed out a lengthy article lambasting the United States as absolutely wicked and also condemned the notion of a military response. Teachers hand out left-wing articles with little or no balance, administratrors avoid conservative speakers at all costs, liberals are routinely brought in who assert the same position that teachers drill into their students, multiculturalism is coupled with anti-Americanism, and history is rewritten leaving out everything that might cause students to be patriotic.”

This is a perfect description of what happened in higher and secondary education in the 60’s.

Even though, especially in the light of recent history books, there are no facts that the former war protestors can point to that vindicates their position, it is imperative for them to continue to urge the nation to ignore the correct historical conclusions. To admit to having been wrong in their views on the war would mean to face not only enormous guilt but even more important, disproof of their ideological or philosophical ( usually some version of Marxism) assumptions. They must of necessity cling to the position that they were right, that those who fought were wrong, and that there is nothing to discuss. Demonstrations that they were wrong, however, is absolutely crucial at this time when so many left/liberals on campuses across the nation are coming out in support of the international terrorists that are attempting to destroy America as well as beginning a monstrous new wave of anti-Semitism on campuses.

About fifty organizations will initially be showing the Magruder film: universities (such as Univ. of Colorado, Duke Univ., American Univ., Univ. of S.C., Rutgers.), veteran organizations (such as the Special Forces Association, 1st Marine Division Association, DAV, American Legion ), and numerous university R.O.T.C. units. A number of these organizations said they would try to get the film shown campus-wide, and on television.

Said Mr. Magruder, “I’m delighted. We have a beginning. The bigots who run the media (see the book, Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News, by Bernard Goldberg) are about to be exposed on the subject of Vietnam. The national media and the Kansas media, as always, will try to cover this up, but with enterprising students all over the country getting these film on TV, these bigots will eventually be defeated.”

Micheal Clodfelter, Vietnam combat veteran and author of perhaps the best history to date of the Vietnam War, Vietnam in Military Statistics: A History of the Indochina Wars,1772-1991, wrote this recently: “During an era when it was both politically incorrect and uncool to show support for the American men and women in uniform, Leonard Magruder was one of the comparatively few members of academia to publicly stand by and stand up for those warriors fighting America’s most devisive war. This film is a testament to Magruder’s loyalty to the veterans of Vietnam and the steadfastness of his convictions.”


70 posted on 09/07/2004 6:39:14 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: jmstein7

Ping


71 posted on 09/07/2004 6:41:21 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

The blood on Kerry’s hands

By Jim Bancroft, Sep 6, 2004

 

    Every action has a reaction. We sometimes refer to Newton’s Third Law in ways that do not refer to physical science, but to social and emotional constructs, events we see or hear of, events we perceive of happening or events that we experience ourselves.

 

    Newton’s Third Law of Energy is plainly stated as:

 

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

 

          Our actions as young adults often shape our own lives in ways we do not consider at the time, nor can we foresee the results of our actions in how they affect others in the future. A single drive in an automobile can lead to an accident due to a loss of attention on the road, having tragic consequences for those involved.

 

    Engaging in political activity that is riotous, angry, and controversial, can also lead to unintended consequences, events that were never planned or foreseen, nor predicted.

 

    The willful engagement in activity that is riotous, angry, violent, or controversial; the drawing of attention to your cause by your actions: to see that your actions encourage or embolden others to join in with your cause should bring the greatest pause in your own personal behavior, for it must be plainly seen that your actions can then bring about unintended consequences that are outside of your own personal control, involving the emotions and reactions of others who you may or may not know.

 

    The more violent your initial action was, the reaction may be more violent, more controversial, more confrontational. And it will be you who initiated it because of your first actions, whether the end result was intended or foreseen or not.

 

 

    In my life time, I have seen my country and our politics change in many ways. As a child, I watched the Vietnam War on television; I saw the body counts, I saw the nation fixated on the war shown on the TV screen, I cheered on the troops, and I felt sorrow when I saw the caskets and heard of our losses.

 

    I also saw the anti-war protests on TV. I had to have my Dad explain some words and terms used by the Police in Detroit in 1968 after the riots in how they described the actions of the anti-war people who claimed to be for peace, but seemed to only come to fight and disrupt.

 

    Their actions had consequences. The American people started to see our media play over and again the masses of people who looked normal sometimes, but also some that were the Hippie looking type people. Mostly, we saw abnormal behavior portrayed on television and in the news as being common.

 

    We saw our nation change.

 

    One of the people who most affected us, was John Kerry. John Kerry’s association with these anti-war groups changed our nation forever. Most people see it, those that are over a certain age anyways, maybe not the younger, the have no reference to judge by. But, I am 45, and even in my age, I see it. But, I wonder how many others do.

 

    John Kerry’s actions, and the actions of those who openly protested against our country during the Vietnam War, made it socially acceptable to hate the US while living here, and to falsely claim what they are doing is Patriotism. The actions of the Vietnam protester were to make the call for Socialist or Communist type changes in our government system an accepted thing.

 

    But that is not all. By their actions, a war was ended earlier than expected. Not in a way that was in our favor, but in a way that embarrassed our country even though we were winning the war militarily.

 

    The actions of the anti-war groups affected national policy. We had anti-war groups start up earlier than 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam, true, but their acceptance and liveliness was not noticeable. It wasn’t until after John Kerry got home and started a group called Vietnam Veteran’s Against the War, VVAW, with his friend Jane Fonda that the openly socially acceptable participation in American anti-war activity took place in common American thought.

 

    This was a significant group, in that, for the first time in our nation’s history that I can find, a group of veteran’s who had fought in a war, founded a group that was against national policy in calling for the war to end; not with a victory by our armed forces, but with a defeat of our armed forces. This group was calling for our own nation, THEIR own nation, to remove all troops from Vietnam, admit that our actions there were morally wrong.

 

    They were calling for their nation to lose against the enemy, to give up the fight against the Communist system which genuinely threatened the nation of Vietnam since the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. And because of Vietnam’s geographic location, the seaways of South-East Asia would be threatened with a puppet government run by either China or the Soviet Union in direct opposition to the United States as a nation in order to spread their communist philosophy through the end of a gun.

 

    And they did all this with the backing of our national media, and with all the backing of the political party that was against the President who was in power. . . who had absolutely nothing to do with starting the war in the first place.

 

    These peace groups, led by John Kerry and Jane Fonda and Bill Clinton and their sort, caused our government to step back away from a national commitment to our allies in the South-East Asia peninsula, abandon our war against Communism in Vietnam, and in general, stop our pro-active response to the Communist threat that was a definite reality in the world then.

 

    I titled this paper, “THE BLOOD ON KERRY’S HANDS” for a reason, and that reason all goes back to Vietnam and the effect that his participation in leading a group like VVAW had on the United States and the world.

 

    The connection between VVAW and the peace groups and the early end of the Vietnam War without a US victory against the Communist forces fighting in South Vietnam has not been explored in depth by anyone that I am aware of. There are some things that are important to remember from this time period that can only be examined in hindsight; namely, What happened to the US and it’s policy in foreign affairs immediately following the Vietnam War, and why?

 

    At the time John Kerry left Vietnam, it was early 1969. According to records kept by the US government, by the end of 1968, the US losses in personnel were 36,152 persons killed in action from service in Vietnam from all causes.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/vietnam_war_casualty_lists/statistics.html#year

 

     This is important for one significant reason: 1968 was the TET offensive, the last gasp of the North Vietnamese, a large offensive where the American people were told by a media that the war was un-winnable. But was this the case?

    Here is a short synopsis of just what happened during the TET Offensive of 1968:

Myth: The Tet Offensive Was a Communist Victory

The 1968 Tet offensive was a total and complete miltary disaster for the North Vietnamese Communists no matter how you look at it. If you measure victory by territory gained or enemy killed, the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong failed dismally in their attacks.

The NVA and VC had counted on a "People's Uprising" to carry them to victory, however there was no such uprising. They did exactly what the American military wanted them to do. They massed in large formations that were incredibly vulnerable to the awesome fire support the U.S. Military was able to bring to bear on them in a coordinated and devastating manner.

The NVA and VC attacked only ARVN installations with the exception of the US Embassy in Saigon. Despite reports to the contrary by all major television news networks and the print media, the VC sapper team of 15 men never entered the chancery building and all 15 VC were dead within 6 hours of the attack. They caused no damage to any property and managed to kill 4 US Army MPs, and one Marine guard. The South Vietnamese Police tasked with guarding the Embassy fled at the first sound of gunfire.

The NVA/VC launched major attacks on Saigon, Hue, Quang Tri City, Da Nang, Nha Trang, Qui Nhon, Kontum City, Ban Me Thout, My Tho, Can Tho, and Ben Tre. With the exception of the old imperial city of Hue, the NVA/VC were forced to retreat within 24 hours of the beginning of the offensive. In the process they suffered devastating losses among the southern VC cadres. Using the southern VC as the spearhead of these attacks was an intentional device on the part of the North Vietnamese politcal leadership. They did not want to share power with the southerners after the war, so they sent them out to what was inevitable slaughter. The NVA mainforce battalions were held in "reserve" according to Vo Nguyen Giap, in order to "exploit any breakthroughs".

In the first week of the attack the NVA/VC lost 32,204 confirmed killed, and 5,803 captured. US losses were 1,015 KHA, while ARVN losses were 2,819 killed. ARVN losses were higher because the NVA/VC, reluctant to enter into a set-piece battle with US forces, attacked targets defended almost exclusively by South Vietnamese troops.

Casualties among the people whom the NVA/VC claimed to be "liberating" were in excess of 7,000, with an additional 5,000 tortured and murdered by the NVA/VC in Hue and elsewhere. In Hue alone, allied forces discovered over 2,800 burial sites containing the mutilated bodies of local Vietnamese teachers, doctors, and political leaders.

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/myth_the_tet_offensive_was_a_com.htm

 

    General Vo Nguyen Giap, the leader of the North Vietnamese Army during the war, had these comments to make concerning the efforts of anti-war protesters like John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and VVAW, which Jane Fonda was the co-founder with John Kerry; this article is reprinted from NEWSMAX:

 

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/1/110432.shtml

Gen. Giap Thanks Kerry & Co. for Anti-war Protests

Celebrating the 29th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, the North Vietnamese general who led his forces to victory said Friday he was grateful to leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, one of whom was presidential candidate John Kerry.

"I would like to thank them," said Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, now 93, without mentioning Kerry by name. "Any forces that wish to impose their will on other nations will surely fail," he added.

Reuters, which first reported Giap's comments, suggested that the former enemy general was mindful of Kerry's role in leading some of the highest-profile anti-war protests of the entire Vietnam War.

Before the British wire service quoted Gen. Giap, it noted:

"The Vietnam War, known in Vietnam as the American War, has become a hot issue in the U.S. presidential race with Democrat John Kerry drawing attention to his service and President Bush's Republicans disparaging Kerry's later anti-war stand."

North Vietnamese Col. Bui Tin, who served under Gen. Giap on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army, received South Vietnam's unconditional surrender on April 30, 1975.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal after his retirement, Col. Tin explicitly credited leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, saying they were "essential to our strategy."

"Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement," Col. Tin told the Journal.

Visits to Hanoi by Kerry anti-war allies Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and others, he said, "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

"We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war," the North Vietnamese military man explained.

Kerry did much the same thing in widely covered speeches such as the one he delivered to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971.

"Through dissent and protest [America] lost the ability to mobilize a will to win," Col. Tin concluded.

    These are not insignificant statements. These North Vietnamese military men are crediting the American Anti-War movement with being the reason they held out in time of war. The obvious conflict in this statement of theirs is, if there was NO ANTI-WAR movement in the US, these North Vietnamese military men would have NOT been optimistic about the outcome of the war. They would have been approaching the US in an attitude of military weakness, not military strength.

 

    This is undeniable. In fact, there are some more direct quotes from General Giap on this very subject.

 

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/10/222651.shtml

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.   

    Finally, what must be shown here, are the true and accurate statements of an American who was held as Prisoners of War in Vietnam, and a comment written by John Kerry’s own Executive Officer from when he served on the USS Gridley.

    This first statement below is an excerpt written to television host Joe Scarborough from Col. George E. "Bud" Day, the former cell mate of Senator John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton:

    I was a POW of the Vietnamese in Hanoi in 1971, and I am aware that the testimony of John Kerry, the actions of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, and the radical left; all caused the commies to conclude that if they hung on, they would win. North Vietnamese General Bui Tin commented that every day the Communist leadership listened to world news over the radio to follow the growth of the anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark gave them confidence to hold in the face of battlefield reverses. The guts of it was that propaganda from the anti-war group was part of their combat strategy.

While the Commies were hanging on, innumerable U.S. Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Air Force members were being killed in combat. Every battle wound to Americans after Kerry's misdirected testimony is related to Kerry's untruthfulness. John Kerry contributed to every one of these deaths with his lies about U.S. atrocities in Vietnam. He likewise defamed the U.S. with our allies and supporters.

His conduct also extended the imprisonment of the Vietnam Prisoners of War, of which I was one. I am certain of at least one POW death after his testimony, which might have been prevented with an earlier release of the POWs.

. . . .

I draw a direct comparison of General Benedict Arnold of the Revolutionary War, to Lieutenant John Kerry. Both went off to war, fought, and then turned against their country. General Arnold crossed over to the British for money and position. John Kerry crossed over to the Vietnamese with his assistance to the anti-war movement, and his direct liason with the Vietnamese diplomats in Paris. His reward. Political gain. Senator..United States.

    This next excerpt is from Captain J. F. Kelly, who as Commander Kelly was XO of the USS GRIDLEY in the period of 1967 and 1968 when Kerry was aboard.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

                   Every candidate for public office probably has some excess baggage to carry around that he’d rather not have. With Senator John Kerry, it’s undoubtedly his anti-Vietnam War activism that followed his heroic naval service in Vietnam

                   Aside from a Christmas card and an aborted telephone call, I didn’t hear further from John until I read about his anti-war antics including his appearance with Hanoi Jane Fonda and the famous episode of throwing medals onto the capitol steps during a protest.

                   While he was protesting against the war, many of us were still fighting in it. Many of us felt betrayed that one of our own, a decorated hero, would give comfort to the enemy by such actions. Think what you want about the wisdom in getting involved in that war, two presidents, both Democrats, committed the armed forces they commanded to fight it. Make no mistake; actions by the likes of Fonda and Kerry were damaging to our morale, gave aid and comfort to the forces we were fighting and altered the eventual outcome in a manner less favorable to the United States than if they had kept their mouths shut. The time for anti-war protests is before the war starts. 

            There is no question that John Kerry earned his decorations and that he put his life at risk in the service of his country. There is no doubt in my mind, moreover, that he has the intelligence to serve as president. But there is also no doubt in my mind that his anti-war activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable. 

            For that reason, even aside from his anti-defense voting record in the Senate, he is one ex-shipmate that I could never support as commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

 

 

    And that is the point of this letter. The actions of John Kerry and the anti-war protesters caused American men and women to be killed in war time in Vietnam, the very war where they insisted we withdraw and claim we were at fault; where Americans were all war criminals and “baby-killers”. And it was a war we were winning.

    According to American records, a total of 58,193 American personnel died in Vietnam from all causes, with 36,152 having died by the end of 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam. Kerry entered the Swift Boat Service in December of 1968 and served only 4 months before being sent home after his third Purple Heart.

    In 1969, 11,616 American personnel died, and that is the year Kerry started protesting against the Vietnam war after his service. He had already made public statements against the war at the speech  he gave at his Yale graduation:

"What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism. And this Vietnam War has found our policy makers forcing Americans into a strange corner . . . that if victory escapes us, it would not be the fault of those who lead, but of the doubters who stabbed them in the back -- notions all too typical of an America that had to find Americans to blame for the takeover in China by the communists, and then for the takeover in Cuba.

"The United States must, I think, bring itself to understand that the policy of intervention that was right for Western Europe does not and cannot find the same application to the rest of the world.

"We have not really lost the desire to serve. We question the very roots of what we are serving.''

    Kerry’s actions after the war began as early as 1969 while an Admiral’s aide:

In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war.speeches.
BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his conscientious dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."


Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy six months early.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

 

    Kerry was full force into the VVAW by early 1970. The anti-war movement was well known by then and many protests were held including the ill fated Kent State incident.

    John Kerry did not just protest in the US because of his beliefs, he also traveled to meet the Communist leaders of North Vietnam in Paris.

John Kerry, in sworn testimony before the Senate in April 1971, said he met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris in May 1970. He said they discussed their peace proposals -- especially the eight points of Madam Binh. Kerry strongly recommended that the Senate accept those proposals.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points...

…I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera.”

In the ensuing months, Kerry became even more strident in his insistence that the US accept Madam Binh's (and the NVM and VC's) peace proposals.

Meanwhile, other representatives of Kerry's group, the Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW ), met with the NVM and VC delegations in Paris, in March 1971. They were even photographed sitting at a table with them, as in a photo displayed in Winter Soldiers, by Richard Stacewicz, page 284. 

Subsequently, VVAW representatives met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations on numerous occasions, both in Paris and even in Hanoi.

The VVAW even signed a treaty with the North Vietnamese which included all of Madam Binh's points, as noted by the historian of the anti-war movement, Gerald Nicosia, his book Home To War: 

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3778

    The FBI has recently released the files on VVAW and can be found here, documenting the knowledge of Kerry’s visit to Paris to speak with the North Vietnamese:

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI

    These actions in meeting with foreign leaders who are directly engaged in treaty negotiations with the United States Government border on treason.

Did Navy Lt. Kerry violate The UCMJ?
August 23rd, 2004

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is a federal law, enacted by Congress. Its provisions are contained in United States Code, Title 10, Chapter 47. Article 36 of the UCMJ allows the President to prescribe rules and procedures to implement the provisions of the UCMJ. The President does this via the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) which is an executive order that contains detailed instructions for implementing military law for the United States Armed Forces.

The UCMJ states:

ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY 

Any person who--

(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3778

    John Kerry’s meeting with the North Vietnamese, the very people who are killing Americans in the war, borders precariously close to treason, enough to be investigated.

    What must be reinforced here, however, is the effect of these actions concerning the point of this paper: What did the North Vietnamese say about why they prolonged the war?

It was the American Anti-War movement.

    John Kerry was a part of that movement, a major leader of that movement.

    The North Vietnamese publicly stated that the American anti-war movement encouraged them to continue to fight.

    The next connection is impossible to avoid: John Kerry’s actions directly lead to American servicemen and women to be killed in combat because of the encouragement his actions gave to the enemy, the North Vietnamese.

    From 1970 until the end of American involvement in 1975, 9,586 Americans were killed in Vietnam. Killed because American anti-war protests encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue fighting the war.

    It is not a stretch to see that the actions of John Kerry and Jane Fonda directly lead to the deaths of thousands of Americans in the Vietnam War.

    Is this the only list of failures or deaths caused by the American Anti-war movement? Sadly, no.

    American foreign policy was changed dramatically after the Vietnam War. American military dominance was questioned, new weapons programs were held back, American intelligence operations were ended and our CIA was attacked and almost shut down, efforts to remain technologically superior were thwarted at times, and material replacement of military hardware was slowed or refused after 1975.

    American prestige was shattered globally. The newspapers of the world all spoke of the American loss in Vietnam, the movie industry put out movies showing Vietnam veterans as psychotic drug abusers or wife beaters and social misfits.

    But most importantly, it shattered American resolve to fight when necessary. The Democratic majority in Congress would enact the 1973 War Powers Resolution, forbidding the president from sending U.S. troops into combat for more than ninety days without congressional consent. Congress increasingly emphasized the limits of American power, and put a cap on the cost Americans would pay in pursuit of specific foreign policy objectives. The fear of getting bogged down in another Vietnam-like quagmire made a majority of Americans reluctant to intervene militarily in Third World countries. It caused American public opinion to sway and support a political party over another, even though the party portrayed in a negative light had nothing to do with causing the war and never received the respect it deserved with ending it without a total disaster for the American public had we followed the advice of the anti-war protesters.

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/vietnam/postwar.htm

 

 

 

    This lack of resolve showed in 1975 when the North Vietnamese invaded the South and began a slaughter, killing as many as 1 Million people, causing over 1.5 Million to 2 Million people to flee in small boats to save their very lives.

    This lack of resolve showed later that year when the Khymer Rouge began their systematic genocide in Cambodia, leaving the US powerless to intervene to stop the killing, and over 1 Million people were slaughtered.

    This lack of resolve showed even in 1979 when the American Embassy was overrun in Tehran, Iran, and then President Jimmy Carter failed to respond with forceful effort with our military in response to the new world threat: Islamic Terrorism.

    This lack of resolve showed when then President Ronald Reagan failed to fully make a military effort in Lebanon because of a lack of backing in the House and Senate.

    This lack of resolve showed when the Contras were supported for a year or two, only to have the Democrat Senate and House remove the means to provide for their actions against a Communist dictatorship in Nicaragua.

    By then, it was almost too late. American resolve was a joke. It took the efforts of Ronald Reagan to rebuild our military out of the shambles that Jimmy Carter left it. It took the efforts of George H. W. Bush in defending the nation of Kuwait in the first Gulf War.

    But, once again, an anti-war person came to the forefront, Bill Clinton, who during the 1990’s, ignored the obvious threat of radical Islam that the world was facing.

    And again, in 2001, with a lot of words, people like John Kerry started blaming someone else instead of the bad guys for 9/11. John Kerry voted for war against the Taliban, and then again voted for war against Saddam Hussein. 

    But what happened next? The Anti-War movement came out of hiding, and in a war where the enemy directly provided aide and support for terrorists who exploded bombs on American soil, anti-war activists have once again divided the American people, and John Kerry is one of their leaders . . .again.

    It is not that much of a stretch to see what happened from John Kerry’s actions in the 1960’s to today, and how people like him affected our national government policy through their activism and actions.

    By leading and organizing protests against the war, John Kerry encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue the war, and thousands of Americans died...

    Over a Million South Vietnamese died...

    Over a Million Cambodians died . . .

    American prestige was tarnished. . .

    Islamic terrorism was born and not stopped because of American reluctance to engage in combat after Vietnam, reluctance which was called the “Vietnam Syndrome” . . .

    Communism attempted to overthrow more countries in our own hemisphere . . .

    An anti-war leader, Bill Clinton, carrying on the same traditions as John Kerry, failed to stop the obvious growing threat of Islamic Fundamentalist sponsored terrorism . . .

    And now, we are engaged in a world wide terror war. The United States appears to be alone in it, too. All because of the pacifism and anti-Americanism of the American Anti-War movement of the 1960’s.

    That’s when it started in our generation.   John Kerry has blood on his hands.

Jim Bancroft is a former Marine who served in the United States Marine Corps from 1977 to 1981, and served off the coast of Iran for the Hostage Rescue Attempt of April 24-25, 1980.


72 posted on 09/07/2004 6:48:47 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: Calpernia

STUDENT GROUP SAYS AMERICAN MEDIA COVERING UP GROWING POLLS THAT SHOW VIETNAM VETS DON’T WANT KERRY AS COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. SEEK TO EXPOSE THIS THROUGH FILM PLUS VET PANELS ON PUBLIC ACCESS TV, AND S.O.S. TO WORLD MEDIA.

Leonard Magruder, President of Vietnam Veterans for Academic Reform, the student auxiliary at the University of Kansas, today sent out 28 copies of a special edition of his documentary, How the Campus Lied About Vietnam, to Vietnam vet leaders requesting it from all over the country. The film, reduced to forty minutes, allows for 20 minutes of live commentary about Kerry by vet groups who plan to show the film on local Public Access TV.

The film is a representative sample from 62 interviews Mr. Magruder did with Vietnam vets at national parades during the mid-80’s. The subject is the damage that was done to returning vets by antiwar groups such as Kerry’s Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In addition, he announced he had also just sent out copies of his latest article to major media in the capitals of Europe detailing both Kerry’s weakness in the area of national security and the growing opposition to him as Commander-in-Chief by Vietnam veterans. The American media, he said, was not mentioning any of these issues. His article may be seen at the group’s website,

http://www.v-v-a-r.org

Other Vietnam vet groups against Kerry are

http://www.wintersoldier.com

and

http://www.nojohnkerry.org

Excerpts from the interviews with the veterans who appear in the film may be seen later in this article.

Following is the material that went out with the film on all of these issues:

“The Kerry statement to Congress in 1971, shown recently on C-SPAN, was more than what he now claims, just an anguished cry from those who had seen horror and wanted it ended. There was an agenda involved, an ideology, very similar to the one argued by people like Jane Fonda, Jerry Rubin, and Ramsey Clark. Kerry was probably more moderate than these three, but still, he did emphasize “atrocities,” “immorality,” and “out now” with no regard for the fate of the South Vietnamese, major themes of the protestors. Kerry told Congress the whole war rested on “atrocities,” that South Vietnam was a “nothing,” that the idea of Communist involvement was “mystical,” that it was a “civil war” between freedom fighters and an oppressive government being helped by America. He fed the falsehoods that those who fought the war were the young and poor, that minorities were disproportionately represented, that the Vietnam veteran is ashamed of his service, and that the government had used them. Kerry said the U.S. was “the criminal element” in Vietnam, not the Communist North. Craig Gordon of Newsday’s Washington Bureau wrote of Kerry’s testimony in an article on Feb 21, “It is considered by many to be one of the peace movement’s defining moments. Kerry’s speech helped galvanize the protests and turn popular opinion against the war.”

Kerry has made a few statements recently about this ’71 testimony. But he misrepresents it. The Winter Soldier charges were not “highly documented”; they are totally unsubstantiated. He didn’t “help people understand what was going on”; he helped to publicize lies. He didn’t “honor” the service of vets; he charged them and their officers with daily atrocities. This desperate posturing on his past radicalism tells us a lot. He tries to turn every questioning into an attack on his patriotism, a transparent and ineffective dodge.

Mackubin Thomas Owens, a Vietnam combat veteran, now professor of strategy at the Naval War College, put the issue best in an article recently in The National Review: “Kerry invokes his Vietnam veteran service at every turn. But an honest, enterprising reporter should ask him, ‘Were you lying in 1971 or are you lying now?’ If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn’t possibly be proud of his Vietnam service. But if he is proud of his service today then he should apologize to every veteran of that war for slandering them to advance his political ambitions.”

Stephen B. Young in an article commenting on celebrations of the thirtieth anniversary of the Vietnam War said, “A generation congratulates itself once again for doing what the North Vietnamese never could have done—defeat the United States. History, as they say, is written by the victors, and the victor in this conflict was the American anti-war movement. It is no wonder, then, that our national recollection of the war matches that of the New Left.”

It is this recollection, rising to the surface in this debate over Kerry’s 1971 testimony, that is really at stake, with media and campus clearly trying to keep the issue from surfacing. For thirty years the media and the university have institutionalized the Big Lie of the campus war protestors and gotten away with it by simply refusing to debate the issue with veterans, which now they may have to do. (see my article, “Kerry Too Naive” at v-v-a-r.org)

Here is an example of the Big Lie, taken from Mutiny Does not Happen Lightly: the Literature of the American Resistance to the Vietnam War.

“The May 2nd movement is launching an anti-induction campaign on the campuses. ...based on the refusal to fight against the people of Vietnam. Some chapters of May 2 plan to campaign to donate blood and other medical aid to the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam (Viet Cong) to concretely show our support for national liberation struggles. Receiving blood from U.S. college students will be a terrific morale booster for the Vietnamese people.”

—May 2nd Movement - Sept. 8, 1965

This is a typical example of 60’s campus rhetoric. Aid and comfort to the Viet Cong, who, they were assured by faculty, were simply “indigenous freedom fighters” being attacked by American forces, the Big Lie that even today lives on in teaching students about the war, and clearly influenced the thoughts of Kerry when he testified to Congress.

The American soldier, with few exceptions, fought bravely and honorably. He did what the nation asked of him and in no sense was the war lost on the battlefield. Even though American resolve fell short in the end, few nations in history have ever engaged in such sacrifices for others, and no gain, or attempted gain for human freedom can be discounted.Those who fought for freedom for the South Vietnamese not only deserve to be honored, they deserve that the nation start facing the truth.

The aspects of the war that most need clarifying, in TV documentaries, movies, books, debates, courses, etc., are: The idealistic motives for our involvement, the subversive nature of the campus war protests, the true intentions of Communist North Vietnam to conquor all Indochina, the barbaric tactics of the Viet Cong, the Bie Lie of the war protestors about “indigenous freedom fighters,” the use of the media to influence public opinion, the manipulation of American media journalists and intellectuals by Hanoi propaganda, the true bravery and victorious record of our fighting men, the genuine thrust for freedom of the South Vietnamese, and the truth about antiwar members in Congress in their final abandonment of South Vietnam.

No nation can allow a tissue of lies this great to remain in the history of its wars for long. It too easily becomes the basis for a dangerous polarization in time of war.

To tell the truth about the Vietnam War at this time would necessarily involve challenging the reigning leftist philosophy on our campuses. But out of this would come, not only freedom for the Vietnam veteran from an image that is still all too often false, but a strong challenge to the other leftist tyrannies on campus that came out of the 60’s: multiculturalism, political correctness, radical feminism, dormitory re-education, and speech codes. And now two new leftist horrors on campus, a virulent anti-Semitism and sugar-coated nonsense about Islam, are making the campus the weakest link in our war on terrorism.

We can honor Kerry’s service in Vietnam, but his slander of the American soldier in his ’71 testimony must be challenged. Furthermore, bravery shown in war, shown also by tens of thousands of others in Vietnam, is no guarantee of “credibility on national security issues.” No president has to go out with an M-16 and shoot enemies personally. What counts in this area of national security is the method one uses to handle conflict, and Kerry has a long history of favoring negotiation, dialogue, compromise, and even appeasement, the typical tools of a liberal, 20th century diplomat in dealing with reasonably civilized nations, but useless in light of 9/11 and an enemy that has repeatedly said:

“We will offer no chance for America to come to an agreement with the righteous warriors, no possibility for compromise, no hope for a treaty, no attempt for solution. The war will be waged until the United States remains a memory.”

We have a slogan at headquarters, “A vote for Kerry is a vote for national suicide.”

Chuck Lawrence, Vietnam vet and author, recently wrote, “The conduct by Kerry and his friends played a significant part and role in Vietnam veterans being ostracized by our society.” That is what this film, How the Campus Lied About Vietnam, is about, the disgraceful treatment of vets when they returned home, as a result of the lies of antiwar groups, including Kerry’s group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Lawrence went on to ask, “Do we really want a president who organized and led anti-war and anti-American protests and demonstrations under the flag of the enemy we were fighting?” Good question.

Right now what the public wants to hear is how the Vietnam veteran community really feels about Kerry as Commander-in-Chief. From all the data I have seen from Vietnam vets all over the country, there appears to be a significant majority opposed to Kerry becoming president. This, however, is not being mentioned by the mainstream media. So if you are among those who want this to be known, How the Campus Lied About Vietnam may be of some use to you in communicating this. But even if you do not wish to use this film in this connection, how the antiwar movement misled the public, and how universities still mislead students about the war are issues in themselves so you could have a discussion about these instead of current political issues. Now is the time to raise any of these issues.

There was time in the 40-minute edition of the film to present the views of ten of those interviewed in response to the question, “How do you feel about the war protestors?” Here are some short excerpts from what each said, although all the rest said essentially the same thing.

Veteran A: Now that hurt me a lot. They yelled at us, “Nixon’s hired guns!” Does one need a college education to do that?

Veteran B: All they cared about was themselves, and those who served in Vietnam they didn’t give jack---- about and that stinks. When a country turns its mind and body against a veteran who fought a war for that country, that stinks.

Veteran C: When I returned I could only keep going if I forgot my Vietnam service, shut it out of my life. But I don’t feel that way any more. I have every reason to be proud of what I did in Vietnam.

Veteran D: Humiliating, insulting, degrading. It hurt, what the protestors did.

Veteran E: They protested the fact that the American soldier was in Vietnam, but when we came back they treated us like dirt. They didn’t care.

Veteran F: When we came home we wanted to fit back into society as soon as possible. But it didn’t work out that way. They kept saying, “You must be one of those baby killers, one of the psychopathic killers of Vietnam.” When you start living with something like that you start telling people you were not over in Vietnam, just out of the country.

Veteran G: They were idots...we came home alone, straight into the jaws of insensitive idiots. The peace movement was very diverse, from Vietnam Veterans Against the War to mother and fathers who couldn’t understand.

Veteran H: Because of them we were portrayed as people that we were not, as “baby killers” and all of that. If they could make those returning feel they had done something wrong it added credibility to their arguments. It was a tack taken so they would not have to go.

Veteran I: Oh boy, do I remember that, spitting at us at the airport and saying we were rapists, that we raped babies, and they left a mark on us making people think that we were no good.

Veteran J: When they got back they were blacklisted as very uncomfortable reminders to those people who opposed the war, and many of them felt the arrogant need to isolate many of those who tried to come home and re-penetrate those peer groups—they were ordered to the closet. It was especially difficult for disabled veterans, who were told their sacrifice was a stupid and unnessary act of patriotism.

UPDATE OF A STORY: A V.V.A.R. SPECIAL

The Los Angeles Times recently reported that selected leaders of Kerry’s Vietnam Veterans Against the War met with representatives of Hanoi who told these leaders which senators they wanted assassinated, and that Kerry participated in a “closed-door discussion” on November of 1971 on whether to do this. Kerry denies this, saying he resigned the organization in July of 1971. But there is a problem. Reporter Thomas H. Lipscomb in an article in The New York Sun wrote:

“A Vietnam veteran who said he remembers John Kerry participating in a November 1971 Kansas City meeting at which an assassination plot was discussed says an official with the Kerry presidential campaign called him this month and pressured him to change his story. The veteran, John Musgrave, says he was called twice by the head of Veterans for Kerry, John Hurley, who told him,”Why don’t you refresh your memory and call that reporter back ?” Musgrave said, “I told Hurley it was my first meeting as an state officer of VVAW and I remember Kerry being there. I remember what I remember.”

By then, the recollections of six witnesses, along with minutes and FBI records, placed Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, but the story has since then been sanitized until it simply disappeared. However, John Musgrave is a friend of Mr. Magruder and lives in the same area in Kansas. He was one of 62 Vietnam vets Mr. Magruder interviewed in Houston for this film. He appears in a photo with Mr. Magruder and General William Westmoreland at the end of the film. At that time Musgrave was running for President of Vietnam Veterans of America. Said Mr. Magruder, “Musgrave once autographed a book of his for me, On Snipers, Laughter, and Death:Vietnam Poems, as follows: “To Len - a true friend of the Vietnam veteran and a friend of mine - your buddy- John.” Said Mr. Magruder, “I have great admiration for John Musgrave. He is a man of great integrity and courage. He was very badly wounded in Vietnam and earned three Purple Hearts. He is very highly regarded in this community . He got out of VVAW when he saw how it was being used by the Left. If he says Kerry was at that meeting in Kansas City, then Kerry was at that meeting, period. I think Kerry has a problem here that has been buried by a media that is campaigning for Kerry.”


73 posted on 09/07/2004 6:51:16 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia
Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts

Wrong headline. Should be "Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for anti-soldier acts"

Kerry just didn't say that the war was wrong, he said that American soldiers were criminals.

74 posted on 09/07/2004 6:52:56 PM PDT by Poincare
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To: RaceBannon

Bump!

Thank you!

I was starting to think I was the only one here :)


75 posted on 09/07/2004 6:52:57 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

Kerry should've been court martialed BUMP


76 posted on 09/07/2004 6:54:08 PM PDT by lawgirl (is RNC bound! W here I come!)
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To: Calpernia

Yes, I'm posting stuff way out of order. But I'm LEARNING this as I go. I never knew half of this history! It is no longer in the school curriculum!

http://www.v-v-a-r.org

KERRY - THEY WERE NOT “STANDING UP FOR YOU.” YOU DIDN’T UNDERSTAND THAT WAR, AND YOU ARE NAIVE ABOUT THIS ONE.

By Leonard Magruder

2/21/04

There are a great number of organizations that represent Vietnam veterans. To our knowledge, ours is the only organization that still represents those who fought the ‘war on the homefront’ supporting both the soldiers and the cause in Vietnam, going back thirty-five years to Mr. Magruder’s first one-man protests on campuses against the war protestors. We have a huge archive on the activities of the Left, which engineered these protests, up to today when its totalitarian views on reality totally dominate the American campus.To expose the lies of the Movement would end that tyranny. The hugh waves of anti-Semitism and the sugary nonsense about Islam on campus are only the latest atrocities of the Left. Now that the Kerry campaign has raised the issue, we call for a national effort to end the lies the Left told about the Vietnam War once and for all.

We honor Kerry for his courage and service in Vietnam. But there are problems with what he did when he returned. When everyone was searching for Kerry’s 1971 testimony to Congress, we had it, in our archives. We sent it to “Northwest Veterans Newsletter,” which posted it for all to see. Then we sent out an article showing that many of Kerry’s arguments were identical to those of the campus war protestors--“Students Call on Kerry to Disavow 70’s Anti-war Statement or Drop Out.” Today we will show you why he must do that. That was not an honest movement. It was all too often nothing but Leftist propaganda for Hanoi.

We have in our archives a very rare book, containing 118 of the most important pieces of literature handed out by the antiwar movement between the years 1964 and 1974--“Mutiny Does Not Happen Lightly: the Literature of the American Resistance to the Vietnam War.” Edited by G. Louis Heath, a professor of sociology at Illinois State University, it was published in 1976 in a very limited edition. In his Introduction he writes that the book “consists of flyers, leaflets, letters, reports, manuals, and documents produced by or relating to the antiwar movement in the United States collected from over one hundred groups, many of them organized on university campuses... selected so as to present an accurate cross-section of the American resistance to the Vietnam War during 1964-1974.”

Containing mostly information on Who, What, Where of the various demonstrations and marches, and a lot of antiwar rhetoric that doesn’t explain anything, we are interested in the Why. We carefully went through all 597 pages of this book for all material that focused on the reasons for the protests. Here, greatly reduced to their essence to fit on these 5 pages, are the ONLY such statements we found. And although all of these themes are found at greater lengths in other forms, the essence of what the anti-war movement told others as to what the war was all about, is found here. We will send this book overnight to any Vietnam veteran leader acceptable to both sides of the Kerry issue, because this apparently is what he and Vietnam Veterans Against the War endorsed, to check our work to assure you that all this is true, that we have not let our own biases on this issue distort this study in any way.

And once again, as we did in our recent article,”Students Appeal to World Media as American Media Engages in Cover-Up of Kerry’s Weakness on National Security,” we call on the national media, especially TV news, to stop campaigning for Kerry and start asking him the right questions.


77 posted on 09/07/2004 6:56:43 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
If Edwards was in college he got a deferment, just as Chaney did, just as Kerry did,........
78 posted on 09/07/2004 6:57:42 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Bush Democrats = Zell's Angels)
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To: Calpernia
Click the pick to download the complete John Kerry Testimony, 04/22/71


79 posted on 09/07/2004 7:00:32 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub


80 posted on 09/07/2004 7:18:23 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: Calpernia

Merging the timelines from wintersoldier.com to my thread:

March 8, 1965 -- The first Stockholm Conference on Vietnam is held in Stockholm, Sweden. The conference is the creation of Romesh Chandra, chairman of the KGB-funded World Peace Council. Former Soviet bloc spy chief Ion Mihai Pacepa will later describe it as "a permanent international organization to aid or to conduct operations to help Americans dodge the draft or defect, to demoralize its army with anti-American propaganda, to conduct protests, demonstrations, and boycotts, and to sanction anyone connected with the war." The operation is staffed by undercover intelligence officers and funded to the tune of about $15 million per year by the Communist Party. Between 1966 and 1972 it will generate "thousands of 'documentary' materials printed in all the major Western languages describing the 'abominable crimes' committed by American soldiers against civilians in Vietnam, along with counterfeited pictures."

SEE MY POST HERE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=8#8
In October and again in November 1969 Clinton organized and led anti-war demonstrations in London, England with the support of the British Peace Council, which was backed by the World Peace Council who was a front for the KGB.

Clinton BELONGED TO THIS GROUP TOO.

ALSO ADD POST: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=22#22



May 2, 1967 -- Bertrand Russell's International War Crimes Tribunal opens in Stockholm, Sweden, with Jean-Paul Sartre as executive president. The members of the tribunal are all well-known supporters of North Vietnam, and the "evidence" presented is supplied largely by North Vietnam, the Vietcong, and communist investigators. The Tribunal concludes that American forces are engaged in the "massive extermination" of the people of South Vietnam, and are committing "genocide in the strictest sense."

November 20, 1967 -- A second session of the International War Crimes Tribunal is held at Roskilde, Denmark.

ADD HERE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=32#32

Senator J. William Fulbright - The guiding hand behind Clinton during this era was senator Fulbright. Bill Clinton was at Georgetown University in 1968 and also had a job in the office of Senator J. William Fulbright. Clinton was an eyewitness to Fulbright's success in destroying the American consensus on Vietnam. Fulbright was an extremist and lead a bitter fight with LBJ and Nixon against America's Vietnam policy. He was not particularly concerned with the truth. After graduation in 1968, Clinton was available for the draft (1-A). However, through Senator Fulbright's influence with the Arkansas draft board and with various lies, Bill Clinton was able to avoid military service during the Vietnam War.

Jim McDougal - During 1968, Clinton also became friends with Jim McDougal, then an assistant to Fulbright.

Strobe Talbott - During 1969, while at Oxford (dodging the draft with the ROTC enlistment), Clinton became friends with Strobe Talbott. Clinton was an antiwar protester in England and Russia during this period and helped organize demonstrations (down with America) that burned the American flag. Talbott was aware of these events. He latter went to graduate school at Yale Law with both Clintons.



Early April, 1969 -- U.S. Naval Lieutenant John Kerry leaves Vietnam and is soon reassigned as a personal aide and flag lieutenant to Rear Admiral Walter F. Schlech, Jr. with the Military Sea Transportation Service based in Brooklyn, New York.


INSERT HERE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts
From Main THREAD: Mr. Walinsky recalled that Mr. Kerry flew him around the state of New York for several Vietnam Moratorium protests in October 1969.


November, 1969 -- In response to a public call from the Bertrand Russell foundation in New York, Jeremy Rifkin and Tod Ensign launch a new organization called Citizens Commissions of Inquiry (CCI) to publicize American war crimes in Indochina.

December, 1969 -- Kerry requests an early discharge from the Navy in order to run for a Massachusetts congressional seat on an antiwar platform.

ADD HERE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=29#29

On December 12th, 1969 Bill Clinton travels to Norway where he meets with various peace organizations. He later travels on to Moscow on December 31, 1969 and stays for a week. One should remember that Moscow was still supplying North Vietnam with missiles that were used to shoot down American planes along with technicians and military advisors. Some of these advisors participated in the interrogation of American POW's.


January 3, 1970 -- Kerry is discharged from active duty.

February 13, 1970 -- Candidate Kerry tells the Harvard Crimson, "I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations," and that he wants "to almost eliminate CIA activity."

February, 1970 -- CCI co-sponsors its first "commissions of inquiry" in Toronto and Annapolis MD, and begins providing accounts of war crimes to the press. During the next few months, the CCI holds events in Springfield Massachusetts, Richmond, New York City, Buffalo, Boston, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and Portland Oregon.

March, 1970 -- Kerry drops out of the Fourth District congressional race to make way for antiwar activist Father Robert F. Drinan, dean of Boston College Law School, and later becomes chairman of Drinan's campaign. Drinan defeats pro-war incumbent Philip Philbin in the Democratic primary and goes on to win the general election.

May 7, 1970 -- Kerry appears on The Dick Cavett Show for the first time, speaking in opposition to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

May 23, 1970 -- Kerry marries Julia Stimson Thorne in New York.

Late May, 1970 -- John and Julia Kerry travel to Paris on a private trip. Kerry meets with Madam Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG) -- the political wing of the Vietcong -- and with representatives of Hanoi who were in Paris for the peace talks.

June, 1970 -- Kerry joins Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a national veterans group that is part of the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. The PCPJ is a broad coalition of local and national organizations, including the Communist Party, USA, "committed to conducting demonstrations aimed at ending the war in Indochina, and poverty, racism and injustice at home." The VVAW, CCI and PCPJ all have headquarters at 156 Fifth Avenue in New York City. VVAW Executive Secretary Al Hubbard, a former Black Panther, is also on the coordinating committee of the PCPJ. Hubbard soon appoints Kerry to the VVAW's Executive Committee, bypassing the normal election process.

August, 1970 -- Al Hubbard asks Tod Ensign and Jeremy Rifkin of the CCI to join with the VVAW, the Reverend Dick Fernandez of Clergy and Laymen Concerned about Vietnam (CALCAV), Jane Fonda, Mark Lane and others to organize national hearings on war crimes. Lane suggests calling the hearings "Winter Soldier," a play on the opening lines of Thomas Paine's The American Crisis: "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink for the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." By the end of the month the Winter Soldier Investigation has been planned as a simultaneous event featuring "Vietnamese victims" in Windsor, Canada, and Vietnam veterans in Detroit, connected by closed-circuit television.

September 4, 1970 -- Operation RAW (Rapid American Withdrawal). Some 75 VVAW members begin a three-day hike to Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Along the way they simulate war atrocities against civilians, and hand out flyers to townspeople stating that they might have been raped, murdered or tortured by the U.S. Infantry had they been Vietnamese, and claiming that "American soldiers do these things every day."

September 7, 1970 -- At the conclusion of Operation RAW, a rally is held in Valley Forge, featuring speeches by John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and Mark Lane. Fonda is quoted as saying that "...My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military."

September 11, 1970 -- A VVAW Executive Committee meeting is attended by president Jan Crumb, executive secretary Al Hubbard, treasurer Jason Gettinger, Northeast representative John Kerry, and three others. The organization leadership decides to picket against the National Guard Association in New York, send Hubbard on a "speaking tour" with Jane Fonda, consider an "appropriate induction center action for purpose of making clear transition from citizen to war criminal," and "sponsor turn in of war crimes testimony to UN" after the Winter Soldier event.

September 17, 1970 -- The VVAW protests the National Guard's national convention, handing out flyers that read:


The National Guard Uses Your Tax Dollar:
To support the military-industrial complex
To honor war criminals - Westmoreland, Laird, Nixon, etc.
To applaud campus murders by National Guard units
To encourage armed attacks on minority communities
October, 1970 -- Jane Fonda, Al Hubbard and Jan Crumb raise money for the VVAW and create new chapters through a nationwide lecture tour covering more than 50 college campuses. Fonda and Mark Lane also plug the VVAW during appearances on the Dick Cavett Show.

November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience, "I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."

November, 1970 -- After a falling-out between Mark Lane and the CCI leadership, the CCI splits from the VVAW and drops out of the Winter Soldier event. The CCI turns to planning a National Veterans Inquiry in Washington, D.C. in early December. Fonda and Lane continue working with the VVAW on Winter Soldier.

December 27, 1970 -- In Mark Lane: Smearing America's Soldiers in Vietnam, reporter and Vietnam veteran Neil Sheehan savages Mark Lane's Conversations With Americans in the New York Times Book Review as "irresponsible" and details several fabricated claims of American atrocities. Publisher Simon & Schuster quickly cancels future printings of Lane's book.

December 29, 1970 -- Playboy subscribers start receiving the February 1971 issue of the magazine, which contains a provided for free to the VVAW by publisher Hugh Hefner. The ad brings in thousands of new members during the next several weeks.

January, 1971 -- Jane Fonda raises funds for the Winter Soldier Investigation through a series of benefit concerts. Participants include Fonda, Dick Gregory, Donald Sutherland, Graham Nash, David Crosby and Phil Ochs. Fonda is named Honorary National Coordinator of the event.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=32#32

Late January, 1971 -- Newly elected Congressman Ronald Dellums permits the CCI to set up a display of "war crime materials" in his Washington office.

Late January, 1971 -- Canadian authorities deny visas to the Vietnamese refugees who had been scheduled to describe American atrocities in Windsor, limiting the Winter Soldier Investigation to the single event in Detroit.

January 31 - February 2, 1971 -- The Winter Soldier Investigation (see invitation). Members of the VVAW meet in a Detroit hotel to document war crimes that they had participated in or witnessed during their combat tours in Vietnam. During the next three days, more than 100 Vietnam veterans and 16 civilians give anguished, emotional testimony describing hundreds of atrocities against innocent civilians in South Vietnam, including rape, arson, torture, murder, and the shelling or napalming of entire villages. The witnesses state that these acts are being committed casually and routinely, under orders, as a matter of policy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209124/posts
Highlights of the VVAW FBI files and John Kerry Section 7

February 2, 1971 -- The VVAW issues a proclamation threatening civil unrest and violence if American forces attempt to interdict the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos. Here are some excerpts:

"We, as veterans of the war in Vietnam, give notice that if Laos is attacked, we will respond at once. We call for mass civil disobedience to take place all over this country. We call for industry to shut down. We call upon the students to close the schools. We call upon our brothers who are still in uniform to close the military bases throughout America and the world. We call on the anti-war movement to shut down the major cities of America.... If this be a threat, let us make the most of it... We have been trained to fight. If need be we will use the knowledge we have gained against those who are seeking to extend this war." -- VVAW FBI Files: Section 02, page 66.

Early February, 1971 -- VVAW leaders meet with Vietcong representatives in Windsor, Canada after the Winter Soldier Investigation.

February 16, 1971 -- Jane Fonda and Donald Sutherland form "FTA" (F*** The Army), an anti-war, anti-American road show that tours near Army bases in order to undermine troop morale. Skits and songs portray American defeats, soldiers refusing to fight, and the murder of officers by their troops. FTA cast members mingle with soldiers after the shows, encouraging them to desert or to sabotage the Army.

February 19, 1971 -- VVAW leaders meet in New York to plan the organization's next action. John Kerry proposes to "march on Washington and take this whole thing to Congress." The protest is designated "Dewey Canyon III," after two military operations into Laos intended to interdict the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

March 14 - 18, 1971 -- Jane Fonda, Mark Lane, and VVAW representative Michael Hunter fly to Europe for a five-day tour. In Paris, Fonda meets privately with Madame Binh of the PRG, then the three activists fly to London, where Fonda alleges American atrocities that include "applying electrodes to prisoners' genitals, mass rapes, slicing off of body parts, scalping, skinning alive, and leaving 'heat tablets' around which burned the insides of children who ate them.'"

March 16, 1971 -- The VVAW holds a news conference in the office of Congressman Michael Harrington (D-Mass.) on the third anniversary of the My Lai massacre to announce the forthcoming protest in Washington, DC. Retired Marine commandant General David Shoup and John Kerry demand an immediate end to the war. Kerry, wearing his medals, describes American soldiers as being "given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history."

Early April, 1971 -- The VVAW is flat broke the week before the Dewey Canyon III event, with no way to transport protestors. In his book "Home to War," Gerald Nicosia will report that "Kerry immediately got on the phone to some of the biggest Democratic Party fund-raisers in New York and set up a meeting. When it broke up, VVAW was $75,000 in the black, and busfare for at least a few hundred out-of-towners was assured." Writing in "Winter Soldiers," Richard Stacewicz will cite an FBI memorandum dated April 13, 1971 as follows, "VVAW had received fifty thousand dollars from United States Senators McGovern and Hatfield, who... obtained the money from an unknown New York source."

April 18, 1971 -- John Kerry and Al Hubbard appear on NBC's "Meet the Press" to allege widespread atrocities by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam. Hubbard is introduced as a former Air Force captain who had spent two years in Vietnam and was wounded in action. Kerry seems to admit to committing war crimes, saying, "There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages."

April 18 - 23, 1971 -- Operation Dewey Canyon III. More than a thousand VVAW members stage an "invasion" of Washington D.C., where they hold memorial ceremonies, meet with sympathetic members of Congress, camp on the Mall, perform "guerilla theater" -- re-enactments of atrocities against civilians, complete with fake blood -- on the Capitol steps and in front of the Justice Department, and hold a candlelight march around the White House carrying an upside-down American flag. At the end of the six-day event, a number of the veterans throw military medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the Capitol in a gesture of contempt. Many shout obscenities or threats against the government. The protests receive enthusiastic coverage in the communist Daily World newspaper on April 20th (Part 1, Part 2), 21st (Part 1, Part 2), 23rd (Part 1, Part 2), and 24th (Part 1, Part 2). Later in 1971, Kerry and the VVAW will publish The New Soldier, a book of essays and photographs documenting the event.

April 22, 1971 -- John Kerry testifies on behalf of the VVAW before the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs. He claims that American soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan..." and that these acts were "not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." Kerry also accuses the U.S. military of "rampant" racism and of being "more guilty than any other body" of violating the Geneva Conventions, supports "Madame Binh's points" when asked to recommend a peace proposal, and states that any reprisals against the South Vietnamese after an American withdrawal would be "far, far less than the 200,000 a year who are murdered by the United States of America."

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/graphics/Kerry_1971_Testimony.pdf

April 22, 1971 -- The NBC Nightly News reveals that Al Hubbard had not been an Air Force Captain, as he claimed, but a staff sergeant E-5. A later investigation of Hubbard's military records shows that he was never assigned to Vietnam.

April 24, 1971 -- Hundreds of thousands of protestors march in Washington, D.C., led by members of the VVAW. Kerry addresses the crowd, accepting applause on behalf of "the 1,200 active-duty GIs who took part in the [Dewey Canyon III] demonstration." The Daily World is on the job, with glowing coverage of the day's events (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4).

April 25 - 28, 1971 -- Congressman Dellums sponsors ad hoc war crimes hearings organized by the CCI and attended at least in part by twenty members of Congress.

May 3, 1971 -- VVAW members throw bags of cow manure on the steps of the Mall Entrance to the Pentagon, then offer to clean up the mess in return for an audience with an assistant Secretary of Defense. This offer is rejected, and 28 people are arrested and charged with disorderly conduct.

May 25, 1971 -- Kerry appears on 60 Minutes with Morley Safer. Asked whether he wants to be President of the United States, Kerry replies in the negative, and calls it a "crazy question."

May 30-31, 1971 -- Several hundred VVAW members march from Concord to Boston, reversing the path of Paul Revere's 1775 midnight ride. After defying a ban on overnight use of Battle Green in Lexington, site of the first battle of the American Revolution, 458 people are arrested and held overnight, including John Kerry. The following day the group marches from Bunker Hill to Boston Common.

June 20, 1971 -- Kerry appears on The Dick Cavett Show to debate Navy veteran John O'Neill, who is representing the group Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace.

July 17, 1971 -- Following a month-long speaking tour of the Soviet Union and other countries, six VVAW and CCI members meet with PRG representatives in Paris to show support for the communist peace plan.

July 20, 1971 -- Leaders of the VVAW hold a staff meeting. They agree to use the designations favored by North Vietnam (Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and the Vietcong (Provisional Revolutionary Government) for future press releases, decide to remove all American flags from VVAW offices, and discuss how best to handle Al Hubbard's planned trip to Hanoi.

July 24, 1971 -- The Daily World features a photograph of John Kerry speaking in support of the Provisional Revolutionary Government (Vietcong) Seven Point Plan.

August, 1971 -- The FBI opens a full investigation of the VVAW to "determine the extent of control over VVAW by subversive groups and/or violence-prone elements in the antiwar movement," noting that "sources had provided information that VVAW was stockpiling weapons, VVAW had been in contact with North Vietnam officials in Paris, France, VVAW was receiving funds from former CPUSA members and VVAW was aiding and financing U.S. military deserters. Additionally, information had been received that some individual chapters throughout the country had been infiltrated by the youth groups of the CPUSA and the SWP [Socialist Workers Party]." Source: FBI Memorandum to Senate Select Committee, 12/2/75, pp. 2-3; Hearings, Vol. 6, Exhibit 72.

August, 1971 -- VVAW Executive Committee member Joe Urgo travels with other antiwar leaders to North Vietnam, where he meets with Prime Minister Pham Van Dong and others. According to FBI records, (see PDF file) Urgo makes the following proposals to the communist leaders: 1) that the VVAW make tapes to be broadcast over Radio Hanoi to get U.S. troops to stop fighting, and 2) to send a VVAW delegation to Hanoi in the near future.

Late August, 1971 -- Kerry and Hubbard meet with leftist millionaires in East Hampton to promote the VVAW and show film clips of atrocity claims from the Winter Soldier Investigation. According to the New York Times, a request for funds had the attendees "scrambling for pens and checkbooks."

Early November, 1971 -- According to FBI records, (see PDF file) Al Hubbard meets with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris. Hubbard's trip comes in response to an invitation to "VVAW, Communist Party (CP) USA, and left wing group in Paris, name unrecalled," and is financed by the Communist Party USA.

November 7, 1971 -- John Kerry tells the Sunday Oklahoman that the political power structure within the United States can and must change if the nation is to avoid violent efforts to seize power, saying, "If it (the government) doesn't change we are asking for trouble. If it is not done, those who are talking about seizing it will have every right to go after it." [see page 251 of Section 10 of the VVAW FBI files]

November 12 - 15, 1971 -- the VVAW leadership meets in Kansas City. Fearing surveillance by authorities, the group relocates the meeting to another building. They debate, then vote down a plan to assassinate several pro-war U.S. Senators. Despite John Kerry's claim to have left the VVAW before this event, several witnesses, meeting minutes and FBI records eventually place Kerry at the Kansas City meeting.

November 15, 1971 -- After trying unsuccessfully to have Al Hubbard removed from the group's leadership, John Kerry resigns from the Executive Committee of the VVAW for personal reasons. Kerry will continue to represent the organization in interviews and public appearances for several months.

December 26, 1971 -- Fifteen VVAW protesters take over the Statue of Liberty for some 40 hours and drape an upside-down American flag across the statue's face. Per the New York Post, the VVAW later receives a "congratulatory message" from Vietcong negotiator Le Mai in Paris.

December 27, 1971 -- Twenty-five VVAW protesters take over the Betsy Ross House in Philadelphia.

December 28, 1971 -- 150 VVAW protesters splash bags of blood in front of the White House, then take over the Lincoln Memorial. 87 are arrested. John Kerry tells the New York Times that he is helping raise bail money for some of the demonstrators.

January 11, 1972 -- John Kerry represents the VVAW at Dartmouth College.

January 25, 1972 -- John Kerry represents the VVAW at the "People's State of the Union" in Washington, D.C.

February, 1972 -- A VVAW delegation attends a World Assembly for Peace and Independence of the People of Indochina in Versailles, France.

April 22, 1972 -- John Kerry represents the VVAW at the "Emergency March for Peace" in Bryant Park in New York City.

July 8 - 22, 1972 -- Jane Fonda visits Hanoi, where she makes numerous radio broadcasts to American and South Vietnamese military personnel encouraging mutiny and desertion, while repeatedly claiming that the United States is committing war crimes in Vietnam. Fonda also visits American prisoners, reporting on the air that they are being "well cared for" and that they wished to convey their "sense of disgust of the war and their shame for what they have been asked to do." Upon leaving North Vietnam, Fonda accepts from her hosts a ring made from the wreckage of a downed American plane.

July 29 - August 12, 1972 -- Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark travels to Hanoi on behalf of the communist Stockholm International Commission for Inquiry. Clark denounces the U.S. bombing of North Vietnam and visits American POWs, reporting that they are in good health and their conditions "could not be better."

September 18, 1972 -- John Kerry's brother Cameron and Vietnam veteran Thomas Vallely are arrested in Lowell, Massachusetts in the basement of a building that houses both Kerry's campaign headquarters and those of opposing candidate Tony DiFruscia. Cameron Kerry and Vallely are charged with breaking and entering with intent to commit larceny. Kerry will win the Democratic nomination for a Massachusetts congressional seat the next day, but lose in the general election to Republican Paul Cronin. Thomas Vallely will later become director of the Vietnam Program at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

Late 1972 -- The U.S Congress votes to eliminate funding for military operations in Indochina.

THIS goes HERE:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=32#32

Sandy Berger - Clinton met Berger when they were working for McGovern's 1972 presidential campaign. Sandy Berger opposed the Vietnam War not by protesting but working to get like-minded candidates -- Bobby Kennedy, George McGovern -- elected. The connection also extends to Senator Fulbright who joined his law firm after retiring from the Senate in 1975. Fulbright became a role model for Berger.


January, 1973 -- The Nixon Administration signs the Treaty of Paris.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=59#59

The People's Peace Treaty

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=63#63

· Signed: Amongst others, John F. Kerry!

· Al Hubbard - Vietnam Veterans Against the War - signed the People’s Peace Treaty of 1971

· Jane Fonda - actress - signed the People’s Peace Treaty of 1971


February and March, 1973 -- American prisoners of war are released by North Vietnam. They report having been starved, beaten and tortured by their captors, in an effort to make them sign documents in which they admitted to committing war crimes.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=47#47
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1205397/posts?page=164#164
THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR "The MIA Cover-Up"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1205397/posts?page=167#167
POWs IN LAOS: SOME STILL SURVIVE HELP BRING THEM HOME

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1205397/posts?page=173#173

On April 16, five members of the Select Committee -- Senators Kerry, Smith, Robb, Brown and Grassley -- embarked on a ten-day mission to Southeast Asia. Members of the delegation spent three days in Vietnam. Their purpose was twofold: first, to obtain the necessary assurances of cooperation from senior Vietnamese leaders; and, second, to ensure that those guarantees of access would be carried out.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1205397/posts?page=179#179

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1205397/posts?page=208#208
Hardly likely. In 1971, two years before any peace agreement, John Kerry, a Vietnam veteran who became a peace activist, said that ``points'' presented by Hanoi-Vietcong delegations in Paris, and their conversations with him and other Americans, showed prisoners would be returned. So, he said, the U.S. should not ``stall'' any longer.

April, 1973 -- Jane Fonda calls the freed American prisoners "hypocrites and pawns," insisting that, "Tortured men do not march smartly off planes, salute the flag, and kiss their wives. They are liars. I also want to say that these men are not heroes."

Fall, 1974 -- North Vietnam initiates minor probing attacks into South Vietnam, in violation of the Paris treaty. There is no military response by the United States.

Early 1975 -- North Vietnam launches a massive invasion of South Vietnam.

April 30, 1975 -- Saigon falls.

1975 - 1979 -- Communist regimes in southeast Asia murder an estimated two million Cambodians, as well as tens of thousands of South Vietnamese. One million South Vietnamese are imprisoned in "re-education camps," and hundreds of thousands die there. An additional two million flee the country, with many drowning in the attempt.

1978 -- The original VVAW splits when a minority breaks away to form Vietnam Veterans Against the War Anti-Imperialist (VVAWAI), with the larger faction retaining the original name. Both the VVAW and the rabidly anti-American VVAWAI remain in operation today.

1978 -- Former VVAW leader Robert Muller founds the Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA). The VVA also describes John Kerry as a "co-founder" of the organization. In the late 1980s, Muller and the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation (VVAF) will split from the VVA.

1981 -- Muller leads a VVAF delegation to Hanoi, where he praises the communist leadership of Vietnam and lays a wreath on the grave of Ho Chi Minh.


81 posted on 09/07/2004 7:41:03 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia
Cal,

Keep digging, find what/where/why of clinton's long trip to Russia.

I have it in my mind that he was in a training camp there,
the same type of terrorist training camps that the September Gang of Mexico got in the 1960's.

Where did the money come from for Bill to travel to England and Russia?

I was a waitress in the same era, and I could barely afford to send my kid to public school. (started in 1951)

Just one of those little nagging questions, that comes up when i hear clinton's name.
82 posted on 09/07/2004 7:52:36 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

>>>>And now, we are engaged in a world wide terror war. The United States appears to be alone in it, too. All because of the pacifism and anti-Americanism of the American Anti-War movement of the 1960’s.

Not just of the 60's. The play book is still out there:

Google Search American Antiwar Movement

http://www.google.com/search?q=American+Anti-War+movement+&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&filter=0


83 posted on 09/07/2004 7:55:12 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

This is the news that needs to be published.

Can this be proven?

We get the last laugh on the fools, who went to protest.

I promise you, that they are still calling the local radio talk shows and spouting the same 1969 words.

The KGB have to have been the best brain washers ever invented.


84 posted on 09/07/2004 7:57:06 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Calpernia; ALOHA RONNIE; Ragtime Cowgirl; mhking; ...

Wow; this is news to me about this Steve Pitkin; sure wasn't familiar with his name before today, anyway. Thanks alot for originally posting this, Calpernia.

Sure hope this gets some mainstream media play! 68-69TonkinGulfYaltClub has background info in his posted links within this thread. Tonk is SO right - this really needs to get out there.

I kinda sorta know (from FR) a columnist, and will privately Freepmail him this thread, just to keep his journalist endeavors private. lol.

I encourage everyone to get this story out to the media.


85 posted on 09/07/2004 7:58:50 PM PDT by JLO
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To: conspiratoristo; lacylu

Dear Lacy, it is time for you to share with us what you have found on the clinton and kerry gang, do you have anything on this era?

Can you help in this, maybe you have/or know something we don't.

ruth


86 posted on 09/07/2004 8:00:35 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Calpernia; ALOHA RONNIE; Ragtime Cowgirl; mhking; ...

Wow; this is news to me about this Steve Pitkin; sure wasn't familiar with his name before today, anyway. Or I could have forgotten.

Sure hope this gets some mainstream media play! 68-69TonkinGulfYaltClub has background info in his posted links within this thread. Tonk is SO right - this really needs to get out there.

I kinda sorta know (from FR) a columnist, and will privately Freepmail him this thread, just to keep his journalist endeavors private. lol.

I encourage everyone to get this story out to the media.


87 posted on 09/07/2004 8:03:34 PM PDT by JLO
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To: Calpernia; lacylu

Cal, I always heard that clinton made more than one trip to Russia, once for the week, but another that was much longer, and that is when he was in the terrorist training camp.

He has been interviewed about a "missing year", which he says he "has no memory of".


88 posted on 09/07/2004 8:04:34 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>>Keep digging, find what/where/why of clinton's long trip to Russia.

I don't even think that much would be out there if it wasn't for Col. Holmes notorized statement. The only history out there now on all of this are the sites the Vets are putting up.

I think we need them to add more. I never knew half of this.


89 posted on 09/07/2004 8:17:34 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia
Stockdale wrote a book about the VietNam prison camps, in it
he talked of someone, who was a coward, it has been years since I read it, but I can still see it.

It happened to turn up in a Readers Digest Condensed book.

It has a name that sounds like a romance book, but it is the truth about real life.

It is a book that should be read.
90 posted on 09/07/2004 8:17:48 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!


91 posted on 09/07/2004 8:20:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

A full confession and act of contrition is required to even ask for forgiveness. Starting with the admission that he aided and abbetted the enemy.


92 posted on 09/07/2004 8:28:52 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: JLO

Getting most if not all of the current crop of Urinalists to publish anything remotely damaging to their "Fellow Traveler" is a most difficult task but we must keep hammering to paraphrase the Gipper's words "Mr Media Tear Down That Wall!"


93 posted on 09/07/2004 8:31:55 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>>I have it in my mind that he was in a training camp there,
the same type of terrorist training camps that the September Gang of Mexico got in the 1960's.


I'll never cease to be amazed. From here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=8#8

World Peace Council

Look here: http://www.cubafriends.ca/whoweare/orlando_interview.php

Orlando Fundora López, president of the World Peace Council, headed by a Cuban for the first time.

Excerpts:

>>>>Fundora: In 1994, a conference took place in Mexico, which in my opinion was a landmark event, really, because the forces regrouped again, and a secretariat – which had disappeared – was approved, made up of the national committees from Japan, France, Portugal, Palestine and Cuba.

>>>>Fundora: The former Soviet Union and the socialist countries were the main support of the World Peace Council, and when that entire world began to collapse, the same representatives from the Soviet committee on the council began to take a different attitude. For example, they wanted to substitute the presidency of Romesh Chandra with that of an unknown and lackluster character from the Nordic countries. We didn't allow it; many members of the council joined us.

We used to call Chandra the priest of peace. Educated at Cambridge (Britain), cultured, he not only participated with Gandhi in the struggle for peace, but also brought to the World Council the need to support liberation and anti-colonial movements during the 1960s and 70s.

>>>>Fundora: A movement of intellectuals has always existed. This idea of creating a movement for world peace emerged in a Polish village in 1948, from no less than Irene and Frederic Joliot-Curie, Nobel Prize winners for Physics and Chemistry, respectively; the famous painter Pablo Picasso; Chilean poet Pablo Neruda; Pablo Casals (one of the great maestros of the cello) and the famous African-American actor, Paul Robeson, who were all there. That was its birth. And the individuals sustaining this movement today are figures from the arts, sciences, journalism and education.




This explains a lot.


94 posted on 09/07/2004 8:33:20 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

Bump


95 posted on 09/07/2004 8:34:30 PM PDT by sport
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To: Calpernia

Communist Vietnamese honor John Kerry, the war protestor, as a hero in their victory over the United States in the Vietnam War.

In the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum (formerly known as the "War Crimes Museum") in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), a photograph of John Kerry hangs in a room dedicated to the anti-war activists who helped the Vietnamese Communists win the Vietnam War. The photograph shows Senator Kerry being greeted by the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Comrade Do Muoi.


96 posted on 09/07/2004 8:39:28 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: SandRat

At this site: http://www.v-v-a-r.org Leonard Magruder explains what happened with the Media (and schools).

WE need a reach. If anything, we may get one person to slightly cover this one day, most won't get it, and then it will go away.

Don't forget, this stuff is being reported to people like me and worse. History was being taken out of school when I was attending. The kids now are getting history REwritten.


97 posted on 09/07/2004 8:39:57 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: SandRat

>>>A full confession and act of contrition is required to even ask for forgiveness. Starting with the admission that he aided and abbetted the enemy.

1. POWs and MIA remains come home.

2. Full Confession

3. Ask for forgiveness.


98 posted on 09/07/2004 8:41:03 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: JLO; All

Oh ya, here's the link to find your local media - by zip code! (Also listed in Tonk's note above.)

http://congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/


99 posted on 09/07/2004 8:43:23 PM PDT by JLO
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To: JLO
>>>>Wow; this is news to me about this Steve Pitkin; sure wasn't familiar with his name before today, anyway.

Click for 68-69TonkinGulfYaltClub post of Steve Pitkin!!!


100 posted on 09/07/2004 8:47:40 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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