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THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
www.freerepublic.com | September 9, 2004

Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin

These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.

They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: District of Columbia; US: Georgia; US: Texas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2004; alabama; barnes; bush; cbs; danrather; dubya; edwards; election; gwb; kerry; killian; ltbush; memogate; napalminthemorning; rather; rathergate; texas
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To: Congressman Billybob
All these years I've known you, my friend, and I never knew you played piano in a whorehouse. I'm impressed.

Hey, that qualifies me to be Ombudsman at the Washington Post.

Same deal, as if there's anything I could say or do to make them stop what they're doing in either place.

151 posted on 09/08/2004 10:34:31 PM PDT by Doctor Raoul (KERRY IS A POODLE: #1 He's French, #2 He's A Rich Woman's Pet, #3 He Won't Protect You)
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To: NYCVirago
Your point about corrections is well-taken. The documents I had declassified for a book was the WW II correspondence of Secretary of the Interior, Harold Ickes. We got access to microfilm copies of the carbon paper originals kept in the Secretary's office. ALL the documents showed evidence of erasing and retyping the corrections in the original and the carbons.

John / Billybob

152 posted on 09/08/2004 10:35:20 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Visit: www.ArmorforCongress.com please.)
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To: Wild_Bill_8881
is OETR a guard thing, or an older Air Force thing?

Don't know. I just googled OETR.

153 posted on 09/08/2004 10:35:59 PM PDT by Terp (Retired living in Philippines were the Mountains meet the Sea in the Land of Smiles)
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To: Chaguito
By gum you're right. Can anyone explain why the 111th in the May 4th memo would be superscripted. Even assuming the letterhead was preprinted (as the 111th in the address at the top is not superscripted), I never saw a typewriter (except an electronic one) that could do superscripts. Also the 111 F.L.S. in the prior paragraph left out the th. A strange inconsistency since the typist would have to go to a good deal of trouble to make the superscript (assuming it is even possible, he would at least have had to change type balls) in the second paragraph but not have even bothered in the first.
154 posted on 09/08/2004 10:36:03 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process
Surely someone in the Houston Area can check out that address and see if it is legit.

Yahoo maps shows that zip-code for 5000 Longmont Dr., Houston, TX is 77056 not 77027 as addressed in memo #1.

155 posted on 09/08/2004 10:36:06 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.)
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To: Texasforever
I do know that you don't write "CYA" memos to yourself and no one else. It defeats the whole purpose.

Yea I thought that one was pretty odd

156 posted on 09/08/2004 10:36:08 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: McGavin999
there is no way this guy would type it himself.

if he typed it himself shouldn't it have bmh for by my hand?

also one of the memos was written on a saturday... http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/index.html?year=1972&country=1

157 posted on 09/08/2004 10:37:04 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Southack

That makes sense. So, memo to what file, typed by what clerk? Where are the initials of the typist? Why does the memo show up in the man's papers, if they are part of an official file? If the non letterhead memos are CYA documents for his personal use to take home, why have them typed in such a manner, and expose these "office politics" and CYA antics to a clerk, when a written note would do?


158 posted on 09/08/2004 10:37:30 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: The Bandit

I cede you the point. Good observation.


159 posted on 09/08/2004 10:37:38 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process

Sure: Look up Bush's REAL records, and look at the "mailing address" on his actual Fitness reports (OER's I think is the Air Force term) and his old pay stubs.

Those would have the actual address on them.


160 posted on 09/08/2004 10:37:59 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Mo1
Yea I thought that one was pretty odd

Not only odd it makes the author derelict in his duty for NOT sending his concerns up the chain. I don't believe any commanding officer is going to do that for a shave tail LT.

161 posted on 09/08/2004 10:39:07 PM PDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: ImphClinton
"Another thing the title on the top would have been preprinted. This does not appear to be preprinted. Since it is in a larger font it would have been impossible to type with any typewriter available at the time. This is a definite forgery. No wonder these records didn't show up when Bush asked for all his records. Heads should roll on this one and no reporter's informant confidentiality should be allowed."

Not to be a wet blanket, but even if proven beyond a doubt to be fakes, do you think many people beyond this forum will ever hear about it? Even if Rush and Hannity pick it up, if the MSM and all the Dem pundits poo-poo it as right-wing-whacko-conspiracy stuff the way they successfully innoculated Clinton to all criticism???

For all we know CBS knows the docs are fakes and is in on it, so they certainly would stonewall exposing their acts. But I'll have this matter on my mind when I pray "God's will be done" tonight.

162 posted on 09/08/2004 10:39:08 PM PDT by intolerancewillNOTbetolerated (Misunderestimated Again Bush/Cheney '04)
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To: rolling_stone
Drills are on weekends, normally.
163 posted on 09/08/2004 10:39:36 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: M1911A1
Why does the memo show up in the man's papers, if they are part of an official file?

Also keep in mind, this man has been dead for 20 years

164 posted on 09/08/2004 10:40:00 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: Wild_Bill_8881
and all the first letter did was tell him to show up at the unit admin within 10 days to set up a physical

He was told to report to the 111 FIS commander to conduct a physical NLT 14 May 1972. It was signed by the commander. Does the commander do his own typing and refer to himself as a third person?

165 posted on 09/08/2004 10:40:32 PM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: Howlin
Re: the Rather Interview with Ben Barnes -

No mention that Barnes is a $500,000 fund raiser for the Kerry campaign (CBSNews - June 18, 2004)

No mention that "In its report, the Los Angeles Times said it found no evidence that either Bush or his father, former President George Bush, had personally tried to influence or pressure anyone to get the younger Bush a place in the Texas Guard" CNN - July 1999)

No mention that Barnes lawyer made the following statement in 1999:

"Mr. Barnes was contacted by Sid Adger and asked to recommend George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard. Barnes called Gen. (James) Rose (Texas Air Guard commander) and did so,"

"Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family asked Barnes' help. Barnes has no knowledge that Governor Bush or President Bush knew of Barnes' recommendation,"

Barnes also said he met in September 1998 with Donald L. Evans, a longtime friend and chief fund-raiser for Governor Bush. Barnes told Evans about Adger's request, and "Governor Bush wrote Barnes a note thanking him for his candor in acknowledging that Barnes received no call from any member of the Bush family."
AP - Sept 27, 2004

166 posted on 09/08/2004 10:40:50 PM PDT by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Gator113

NO!

Microfilm is a "hard copy" - literally a photograph of the orignalpage.

o, to "print" the microfilm copy, you are only "printing" a photograph (an exact image) of the original.

There is no way to change fonts from the original to the copy.

---

By the way, WHY DID Secretary Lehman sign John Kerry's Silver and Bronze Star citations - 15 years after the Vietnam War ended?


167 posted on 09/08/2004 10:41:39 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Steven W.

I understand perfectly.

It's just so interesting to me.


168 posted on 09/08/2004 10:41:40 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: rolling_stone

LOL- trust me, a Light Colonel did not type the memo himself.


169 posted on 09/08/2004 10:41:54 PM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
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To: bobo1

Could your typewriter type superscripts?


170 posted on 09/08/2004 10:42:09 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: M1911A1

Drills are on weekends, normally.

the rest of the memos are not written on weekends...did the Commander work 6 or 7 days a week?


171 posted on 09/08/2004 10:42:17 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Texasforever

Well actually some people did, I broke my legg in 1975, long story involing a cow and a parachute, but I won't go there

I had to hang around and answer phones in the Air Force squadron offices while I healed. Did a little desk snooping too. Belive me EVERYBODY had this manila folders in the back of their desk drawers with CYA files. Not official, no letterheads, no other copies routed anywhere, usualy dated but not signed....just for personal use

Wasn't leagal, Air Force had a huge stink about it sometime in the 1980's, but everybody from first line supervisors up through commanders had them


172 posted on 09/08/2004 10:42:46 PM PDT by Wild_Bill_8881
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To: Mike Darancette

Zip codes change through the years, but good point nonetheless. I was referring to the squadron address. There must be some 1972 source that can tell whether the mailing address of that unit was PO Box 34567.


173 posted on 09/08/2004 10:44:40 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Microfilm is a "hard copy" - literally a photograph of the orignal page

Your are correct .. I use to do microfilm back in the 80's after I graduated from high school ... I hated that job too *L*

174 posted on 09/08/2004 10:44:57 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: Howlin
"A well-cared for IBM Stand Alone Composer, instruction and repair manuls, and 32 type balls (a different one for each font and point size) has been located in the possession of catherine yronwode of Forestville, California. Negotiations for purchase are undwerway and the search is on for a repair person who can fix the machine's steel "drive band," which broke one week before Ms. yronwode bought her first copy of Quark Xpress (version 1.1) in the1980s."

You are unbelievable. I can only stand (ok, sit) in awe.

175 posted on 09/08/2004 10:45:03 PM PDT by intolerancewillNOTbetolerated (Misunderestimated Again Bush/Cheney '04)
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To: Mo1

Kind of reminds me of the Doomsday Machine in Dr. Strangelove: doesn't do any good if no one else knows about it!


176 posted on 09/08/2004 10:45:59 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Mike Darancette
Yahoo maps shows that zip-code for 5000 Longmont Dr., Houston, TX is 77056 not 77027 as addressed in memo #1.

It could of been back in the 70's though -- now that would of been a good tip off that they were fake if the zip code changed and the memo didn't have the correct one for that year.
177 posted on 09/08/2004 10:46:00 PM PDT by lelio
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To: rolling_stone
Could be, if he was on active duty as an Inspector Instructor to the reserve unit, or a reservist on Temporary Active Duty, or an Active Reservist.

Those are all USMC terms, the Air Force back then probably had different names for the same things.

Maybe he typed, or had these memos typed, at home or his civilian office while taking care of reserve business on his own time?
178 posted on 09/08/2004 10:46:46 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: rolling_stone

I am not an expert, but doesn't a lot of ANG business go on on weekends?


179 posted on 09/08/2004 10:47:07 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Steven W.
"May I suggest something?
Don't waste your time!"

Hark, a voice of sanity amongst a chorus of babbling. Good post.

180 posted on 09/08/2004 10:47:43 PM PDT by Rokke
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To: Leroy S. Mort

That should be September 27, 1999 :o)


181 posted on 09/08/2004 10:49:25 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
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To: rolling_stone

Another good point!


182 posted on 09/08/2004 10:49:53 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Rokke
Hark, a voice of sanity amongst a chorus of babbling.

If you think we're babbling, why are you wasting your time on this thread?

183 posted on 09/08/2004 10:50:39 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Rokke

Some of the speculation is just fun for the sake of it, at least here. I don't expect there to be a "magic bullet" discovery that proves the documents to be forgeries, anymore than I expect my study of the Seattle Mariners to improve the team, but I enjoy it.


184 posted on 09/08/2004 10:52:16 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: intolerancewillNOTbetolerated

I am unbelievable??? What on earth do you mean???


185 posted on 09/08/2004 10:52:25 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: AndrewC

WEll that's basically orderly room boiler plate for

GET YOUR BUTT DOWN HERE AND DO WHAT I TELL YOU OR I"LL TELL THE COMMANDER!!!!

typed up by some lowly cleark who gets a stack signed by the old man, oops commander in a big pile sometime between his lunch and happy hour at the O clubwhen when he's not to busy

then sent out to put the fear of god in some young troop


186 posted on 09/08/2004 10:52:53 PM PDT by Wild_Bill_8881
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To: Chaguito
Holy Smoking Gun! Somebody slipped up by allowing the word processor to automatically print a superscript. No superscript in the header. How very sweet!

Great catch, you're right!

On first doc, you see 111th and then 111th

187 posted on 09/08/2004 10:53:37 PM PDT by Tamzee (The NYT.... All the news that pink to print)
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To: Law is not justice but process

I googled:

"Although IBM had produced a successful typebar-based machine, the IBM Executive, with proportional spacing, no proportionally-spaced Selectric office typewriter was ever introduced."

http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/Typewriter

"My favorite electric typewriter was the IBM Executive, of which I have owned two in my lifetime. The first had a proportional font called "Mid Century" that looked like 12 point Futura Medium, and the characters were anywhere from 1 unit wide (lower case i) to 5 units or more (cap M).

It produced beautiful letters long before there was any such thing as word processing, and corrections were a real bitch cause I had to remember how wide each character was when I was backspacing."

http://www.techwr-l.com/techwhirl/archives/9505/techwhirl-9505-01222.html

Yep, I remember the backspacing problems. They were a real problem.

blessings, Bobo


188 posted on 09/08/2004 10:53:39 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: Howlin

I am also not sure that AFM 35-13 is the regulation that would prescribe the flight physical. I think the 35 series was a personnel series and the flight series was 50. I found out that personnel actions were described in 35-13 for failure to complete flight requirements(from the hit pieces out there on Bush), but I think that the requirements come from another regulation.


189 posted on 09/08/2004 10:53:55 PM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: Congressman Billybob
The carbon would carry the original impression, then also the re-typing, since the correction fluid/paper only affects the top page.

A CYA memo, written to "nobody," with no secretary/clerk initials, wrong/missing letterhead with a different address for the ANG unit (PO vice AFO and Base address), typed (somehow) in proportional-spced font ....

But typed "perfectly" and without errors or backspaces ...

Why?

Why write such a "perfect" type-written memo, and go to all that effort SPECIFICALLY to record a minor administrative problem AGAINST a very junior, soon-to-quit, non-flying, surplus and excess AF reserve officer? When the Vietnam War still rages, and the ANG units are stuffed full of combat-exerienced, more senior pilots fully qualified in newer aircraft?

Why write the memo at all?
190 posted on 09/08/2004 10:54:36 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Howlin
Forgive me for this site, but it has a collection of records for this time frame that are interesting...even for document authenticity purposes.

Site

191 posted on 09/08/2004 10:54:48 PM PDT by Dolphy (Support swiftvets.com)
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To: Wild_Bill_8881
GET YOUR BUTT DOWN HERE AND DO WHAT I TELL YOU OR I"LL TELL THE COMMANDER!!!!

Orders do not come from clerks, and clerks put initials on documents to show who typed it.

192 posted on 09/08/2004 10:55:33 PM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: Tamsey

I've manually printed superscripts and subscripts by hand by "half-rolling" the carriage back up a notch.

BUT - Are the superscript letter the exact same size as the regular letters?

Again ... Why go to all that effort?

If the memo is addressed to "nobody" then nobody is going to read it, so why superscript letters?


193 posted on 09/08/2004 10:57:17 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: M1911A1
Unless someone can explain the superscript on the 111th in the second paragraph of the May 4th memo, I believe that is a smoking gun. Can you explain it? I never saw a typewriter that could do that until the electronic typewriters that came out in the 1980s.

My father got out of the USAF in 1968. EVERYTHING typed in his discharge papers was courier font and had uniform character width. Was there a great retooling of the Texas ANG between 1968 and 1972? I didn't see superscripts, even in the preprinted letterhead. Please explain.
194 posted on 09/08/2004 10:57:55 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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Comment #195 Removed by Moderator

To: AGreatPer
Rush said it early on. "This is gonna be fun". Just sit back and relax and enjoy.

If they are so desperate as to fake these documents, and so poorly at that, what else might they be desperate enough to do? Scary thought.

196 posted on 09/08/2004 10:58:38 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: McGavin999
That should be September 27, 1999 :o)

I demand a replay on Sept 27, 2004!

197 posted on 09/08/2004 10:59:35 PM PDT by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Howlin
"I am unbelievable??? What on earth do you mean???"

Your commitment, energy, enthusiasm...I admire such traits.

198 posted on 09/08/2004 11:00:31 PM PDT by intolerancewillNOTbetolerated (Misunderestimated Again Bush/Cheney '04)
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To: spyone
they are obvious forgeries written on a word processor.



Didn't I hear something about a guy who had boxes of sKerry documents that disappeared from a break in in his residence???
199 posted on 09/08/2004 11:01:03 PM PDT by danamco
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To: Howlin
"why are you wasting your time on this thread?"

You raise a good point. I guess I'm just fascinated that people know this much about typewriter balls.

200 posted on 09/08/2004 11:01:15 PM PDT by Rokke
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