THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating

www.freerepublic.com | September 9, 2004

[Howlin]

These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.

They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.

[spyone]

Excellent point! also the signatures here don't match, despite what Dan Rather foists.

[fuzzy122]

"Application Acceptable" is a dead link!

Stay Strong,
Fuzzy122

[El Gato]

Well guard units funding comes from the states,

Very little of it. All their assigned equipment belongs not to the state, but the US Army or US Air Force. The salaries for the "pure reservists", come totatly from the Federales, I'm not sure about the funding for the so called "technitions", the full time cadre who, even though they wear USAF or US Army uniforms, are technically civiilians. In many states, OK for example, the "technitions" even belong to a government employees union, all but the officers. Perhaps even some of those, my squadron only had one full time officer, he was a mustang Captain, but was the XO or vice CO (It's been 26 years) the CO being a pure reservist.

[Oblongata]

"It seems easy enough to disprove. Find an authenticated version of Lt. Col Killian's signature and compare it to the proffered documents (it should be easy enough through probate records if not military records). These memos look fake to me. Would a fighter squadron, even in the ANG, have a PO Box address? Is it too much of a coincidence that the only two people referenced in the memo other than Bush (Killian and Harris) are both conveniently long dead? Etc., etc.."

What we really need to do is find a real memo produced by Killian or Harris at about the same time, and then compare.

[Dolphy]

Well, I have morning appointments so I'll have to check in later to see how this has developed.

[Southack]

"WEll that's basically orderly room boiler plate for GET YOUR BUTT DOWN HERE AND DO WHAT I TELL YOU OR I"LL TELL THE COMMANDER!!!! typed up by some lowly cleark who gets a stack signed by the old man, oops commander..."

Hey newbie, name one military clerk who ever failed to type his/her initials on the bottom of a memo for their boss.

Ever.

3 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Howlin]

This is the picture that got me hooked:

[dalebert]

More trash from the Kerry camp. Wonder who helped with this. McCain?

[woofie]

look at the loops in the ls

[Robert A Cook PE]

In the "official" (i.e., real) images of Bush's paperwork from the real ANG unit, the "official" address they type is very simple:

No superscripts, no "changing letter size, no changing letterhead, or "pre-typing letterhead paper on a different machine" ..

Come on guys! These are USAF COMBAT-TRAINED FIGHTER PILOTS!!!!!! In an AIR NATIONAL GUARD UNIT in Houston during a shooting war! (NON-Air-conditioned offices and flight stations in the hangers!)

Anybody seriously think THEY'RE gonna play paperwork cover-your-ass games with undated memo's to unspecified people and be re-typing PERFECT MEMO's complete with superscripting addresses in their spare time over a minor administrative matter that doesn't affect pay for a junior officer soon to leave the ANG?

---

Bush "official" (as-typed) ANG address from his real correspondence from his CO:

111th F.I.S. (TNG)
P.O. Box 34567
Houston, TX 77034

[Law is not justice but process]

No way that is the same signature as the CBS documents. The dissimilarities are numerous, but the most telling to me is the pen stroke at the top leg of the K goes up in one and down in the other. One or the other is a forgery.

The discharge request you linked to LOOKS like a 1972 military document. It is courier font with uniform character width and no fancy superscripts on the 111th. My money is on the Discharge Request being genuine and the CBS documents being forgeries.

(Fellow FReepers, please forgive me for getting so engrossed in this. I am a prosecutor and often get to deal with questionable documents. It just fascinates me)

My conclusion (then I must get some sleep as I have court in the morning):

The CBS documents are forgeries. There is an unexplainable superscript in the May 4th memo. The signatures do not match the Bush discharge request. The type font is proportional and not the nearly universal courier. The content is too modeled to the needs of 2004 Bush Bashers. The only witnesses named in the memo are dead. These are the best reasons I see. Please correct me if I have omitted anything.

[comebacknewt]

Wonder who helped with this. McCain?

His reaction will be worth watching. He can really help the Pres. if he wants to, but you just never know with him.

[spyone]

To me, the font is the telling point. A poor forgery, written on a modern date word processor. Good enough to fool Dan Rather, though. He is more than willing to be fooled when idealogy is at stake.

[Dolphy]

Okay, try getting it from here under 1972-73, Bricken's response from Alabama

Site

[M1911A1]

My reserve time started in the early 80's, but the idea pushed in the Globe article that each and every regulation or admin requirement must be followed instantly and to the letter by every reservist or some dishonorable crime has transpired is pretty funny, in light of what I have seen.

Regulations can be used to hammer those who deserve hammering. They are followed as closely as can be, given the limits of reserve training time.

I can only imagine the reaction I would have elicited had I tried to get out of going to Iraq by pointing out that my mandatory drug lecture, NBC training or sexual harassment training was out of date. Yet, the Globe would brand me a dangerous renegade because I dared deploy without having my admin requirements all in perfect order.

[Wild_Bill_8881]

Back in the '70s, in an Air Force flying outfit, lots

it was pure hell getting that standardized and straighted out over the next 20 years or so

belive me, I was stuck in the middle of a lot of it and THEN they gave us all PC's and cut our manning for admin trops by 70% and it got REAL ugly

ever see a wrench bender typing letters on 386 DOS machine?..it wasn't pretty

[bt_dooftlook]

At least on the first memo, it appears as if the name under the signature was pasted on top of another document...fraud?

[fetts]

This is fascinating. Don't want to lose this thread, so "ping" [is that right?]

[Diddle E. Squat]

Likely a dead end. The zip code of 5000 Longmont is now 77056, but 77027 is adjacent, right across the freeway. Most likely the zip code 77027 was slit up during the rapid growth of that area of Houston in the last 30 years, it is the Galleria area that has filled up with highrise office and residential, Houston's second downtown. Also 77034 is the zip for Ellington Field, and since the military assigned the box #'s for that base, it wouldn't be unusual for them to chose an easy to remember # like 34567 for the squadron's box.

Plus if these are fakes, I just can't see someone being so incredibly sloppy, in something so serious that will be scrutinized to the nth degree, as to make up an address that is so easily cross-checked. The Dem Sasso and Pellicano types are pro's. Then again, some of those signatures look questionable. While there is often a wide degree of variance(depending oh hand position, what's underneath, etc.) in all the various signatures of a person, some of the 'K's in 'Killian' are completely different in style, far different than would arise out of sloppiness or the other usual variables.