But back then, we did NOT call them fonts!
Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin
These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.
They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.
Nicely centered too!.
Cute touch on the one where it says "qualified Vietnam pilots". OK, I though the liberal spin was that the F-102 never served in Vietnam. It did, but not around the date of this letter.
The proportional fonts is a red flag for me, but not for the "journalists" at CBS. Journalism at the major networks is SO embarassing, I rather tell people that I play piano in a whorehouse than admit to being part of "Network News".
Why is this Houston when Bush was in Alabama?
As I recall, the IBM Selectric was named thusly because you could buy different font "balls" for it.
Instead of font letters at the end of arms that slammed up onto the ribbon and paper at the touch of a key, the Selectric had a ball with all the letters around on its surface. Whenever you touched a key, the ball spun around and hit the ribbon and paper.
I know that may not give a very good description but whatyawant for midnight.
Fellow Freepers do your best work on these obviously phony documents.
Let's document and prove they are a hoax put out by Kerry's cronies. The media whore cbs is a willing accomplice.
Go get'em!!!
I think we're starting to drink the Kool-aid ourselves. I'm not sure waht was available in 1972-1973, but in 1975 I had an IBM Selectric that how proportional Times Roman serifed font.
But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."
You are right, commas and periods are too close to the other letters and they are not consistent.
"You do not write these kinds of documents to yourself since they show the author to be derelict in his follow up"
Such a memo would also ruin the writer's military career if it were ever seen by someone higher up in the command structure. If those "people upstairs" knew the writer was keeping a secret file detailing their "special treatment" of Bush, he would never see another promotion for the rest of his career. No one would be foolish enough to keep such an incriminating memo in his office. And if it wasn't in his office, why such a professional (and, in 1972, labor intensive) typing job?
This hoax could be the new "Hilter Diaries". The media fell for that one too.
Good catch.
The flight exams were and are called "Medicals", too... those forged documents used the incorrect term "physical examination."
Right you are! Even in civilian aviation they are called "medicals". Every private pilot carrys evidence of a current "medical".
Well, they must not have fit CBS' agenda.
And why would Bush be the ONLY one he kept memos on; who else did he do that to?
If you try and mapquest this, there are no streets in Houston currently with a Longmonth street name. There is a Longmont street though ...
He also didn't sign the ""CYA"" memo legibly if at all. How the hell could it cover his ass if nobody knew who wrote the damned thing? This is just more leftist lies and bullshit like the 'boos' crap from AP. Typical liberal desperation.
Wasn't there somebody on the other threads who said that the signature was in the wrong place?
I'll have to go look.
Rush said it early on. "This is gonna be fun". Just sit back and relax and enjoy.
Hmmmm? In the early 70's, I used to have a piece of equipment at work made by IBM. It was a huge electronic typewriter looking machine, with a magnetic card reader which used magnetic cards to store information. It also used a removable ball of different type styles. I was producing technical literature with this system, and there were fonts for everything.
Please be patient with these questions since I have no personal experience to reference.
What should have been the final destination of these documents? Should they have become part of Bush's file? And why the hard-nosed attitude? Hadn't Bush been completing his hours at a better than average pace (I really don't understand what the requirements were but since I read he accumulated enough points to have served 15 years I'm assuming his hours were better than average), and scoring well on tests?
The difference, as you well know, is the focus of their feeding frenzy is a Republican, and Clinton and sKerry are of the correct political persuassion.
I coundn't agree with you more about this being disgraceful behavior that should be beneath any supposedly legitimate, seasoned journalist, but the truth is the MSM is pulling out all the stops to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate and get the Progressive Caste System they so covet installed.
"In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts."
I hope you are right about this and these are forgeries. However, I am looking at my own military records from that same time frame 1972-1976 that were done with a typewriter. I cannot see an obvious font problem. My documents from then look the same. Back then, I was a military clerk, and the most predominate typewriter was an IBM Selectrix using a ball with the characters on it. These documents look real to me and consistent with my own
from that time.
The copies of copies look is allfully suspicious though. Also, it was common practice to use preprinted letterhead then - these are not? Did Dan Bather explain where these documents were found?
They probably are forgeries, but I don't know that the font arguement will hold up.
Do you mean on the page?
Because if you do, that is the FIRST thing I noticed when I looked up from the computer to the screen when they started talking about them.
At first glance, they look JUST like any business letter you'd ever see.
You bring up a good point about the centering. And back in the day of typewriters, documents would be riddled with typos and correction marks. Yet there's not even an extra space between words, or any xxxxx over a wrong word, or obvious use of an eraser or correction fluid. Very odd.
Exactly. And if these were personal memos, which they appear to be, why would his family hang on to memos from 35 years ago, when he's been dead for 20 years? It just doesn't add up.
A Reserve Unit would be the last to get state of the art anything.
But back then, we did NOT call them fonts!
Did you niotice the post office box was 34567 .... come on that has to be made up ...
I wonder if anyone involved in this understands the penalties for falisfying government documents, particularly military records.
Yeah, the MTST System was similar-- only it used magnetic tape (hence, Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter) and was about the size of a console piano. I actually went to IBM school in Mannheim Germany to learn this dinosaur for the army. Your tax dollars at work-- probably obsolete two years later. There's probably a warehouse full of 'em somewhere.
All the various fonts were monospaced, though.
But the Executive proportionally spaced. For example, a "i" received a one-half character space, an "n" got one character space, while an "m" got a character-and-a-half of space.
Each touch of the space bar moved the carriage one-half character.
The ads for these typewriters are all in mono spaced fonts ...
Well, 12345 would have been too obvious, wouldn't it?
Surely someone in the Houston Area can check out that address and see if it is legit. There must be some kind of old city directory in the library that lists the address of that squadron (and should't it be on an Air Base Post Office and not the general Houston PO?).
No, there used to be executive typewriters that were out in the mid to late 70's, but you had to be an executive secretary to figure them out. They did proportionally space, but they certainly wouldn't have been in standard use because of the expense. Especially by National Guard units.
That is on another document. It may not be made up, but it is one strange quirk of luck.
My house address is 12345, so what are the chances?
See my post number 88. Do you remember these things? Big, bulky and horrendously expensive?
From this web page, http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Typewriter we find the following history of the electric typewriter:
---
Selectric mechanisms were widely incorporated into computer terminals in the 1970s, ... .
Later models of Selectrics ... introduced selectable "pitch" so that the typewriter could be switched among pica ("10 pitch"), elite ("12 pitch"), and sometimes agate ("15 pitch"), even in one document. Even so, all Selectrics were monospaced -- each and every character was the same width. Although IBM had produced a successful typebar-based machine, the IBM Executive, with proportional spacing, no proportionally-spaced Selectric office typewriter was ever introduced. There was, however, a much more expensive proportionally-spaced machine called the Selectric Composer which was considered a typesetting machine rather than a typewriter.
Well guard units funding comes from the states, depending on the unit sometimes they got great brand new stuff or put up with old cast off junk. If this was the so-called 'Champagne" outfit of the TxANG they probaly got pretty good stuff
Explain to me why you're telling me that.........LOL.
You got that right. I worked for USAREUR & 7th Army and NATO.
Who to contact I don't know except for Rush and Hannity. There has to be a way to prove these documents real or fake and if they're fake, to show See-BS for what they really are.
These document purport to show an officer that had disobeyed a "direct order" to take his flight physical. Now, as GW's commanding officer that memo should have been carbon copied to all involved up the chain of command plus GW's own personnel file. We can see that no one was copied, no copies from Bush's pentagon files are include his copy. This "commanding officer" either put his own career and credibility on the line by suppressing the memo OR he didn't write the damn things.
It was as true then as it is today.
I've composed and read thousands of official Air Force memos during the 60's, 70's and 80's. These have the reek of modern-day forgery all over them.
Looking at one of Bush's annual fitness reports his rating officer noted that "He cleared this base [Ellington AFB] on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187th Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama."
Jerry Killian must had an imaginary Bush discussion. This is why democrats just hate the Bandit.
Some memos have it some don't --- Different typewriters or typists.
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