Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
www.freerepublic.com | September 9, 2004

Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin

These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.

They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: District of Columbia; US: Georgia; US: Texas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2004; alabama; barnes; bush; cbs; danrather; dubya; edwards; election; gwb; kerry; killian; ltbush; memogate; napalminthemorning; rather; rathergate; texas
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 651-656 next last
To: NYCVirago

Nicely centered too!.

Cute touch on the one where it says "qualified Vietnam pilots". OK, I though the liberal spin was that the F-102 never served in Vietnam. It did, but not around the date of this letter.

The proportional fonts is a red flag for me, but not for the "journalists" at CBS. Journalism at the major networks is SO embarassing, I rather tell people that I play piano in a whorehouse than admit to being part of "Network News".


51 posted on 09/08/2004 9:46:22 PM PDT by Doctor Raoul (KERRY IS A POODLE: #1 He's French, #2 He's A Rich Woman's Pet, #3 He Won't Protect You)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Noticed something, the type face looks legit, problem is some of the characters are not to scale.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf

If you look at the letters closely, you can see that the same exact character on the same document will vary in scale slightly as compared to the same letter else where. I thought it was a fluke at first until I saw one that was really obvious unless his Typewriter had two capital letter "A"s.

Look very very carefully at white areas of shading. there are block slide shading consistent with a cut and paste where they were sloppy. Shading around the body doesn't have the same consistency of the header.
52 posted on 09/08/2004 9:46:25 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wildbill

Why is this Houston when Bush was in Alabama?


53 posted on 09/08/2004 9:47:19 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: okie01

As I recall, the IBM Selectric was named thusly because you could buy different font "balls" for it.

Instead of font letters at the end of arms that slammed up onto the ribbon and paper at the touch of a key, the Selectric had a ball with all the letters around on its surface. Whenever you touched a key, the ball spun around and hit the ribbon and paper.

I know that may not give a very good description but whatyawant for midnight.


54 posted on 09/08/2004 9:47:44 PM PDT by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Howlin

Fellow Freepers do your best work on these obviously phony documents.
Let's document and prove they are a hoax put out by Kerry's cronies. The media whore cbs is a willing accomplice.

Go get'em!!!


55 posted on 09/08/2004 9:47:49 PM PDT by popparollo (Johnny we know your machine is at work!DISHONEST!!DISHONORABLE!!!COWARD!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

I think we're starting to drink the Kool-aid ourselves. I'm not sure waht was available in 1972-1973, but in 1975 I had an IBM Selectric that how proportional Times Roman serifed font.


56 posted on 09/08/2004 9:48:31 PM PDT by dwaynestomp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Mike Darancette
This is all they said:

But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

57 posted on 09/08/2004 9:49:00 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

You are right, commas and periods are too close to the other letters and they are not consistent.


58 posted on 09/08/2004 9:49:54 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Texasforever

"You do not write these kinds of documents to yourself since they show the author to be derelict in his follow up"

Such a memo would also ruin the writer's military career if it were ever seen by someone higher up in the command structure. If those "people upstairs" knew the writer was keeping a secret file detailing their "special treatment" of Bush, he would never see another promotion for the rest of his career. No one would be foolish enough to keep such an incriminating memo in his office. And if it wasn't in his office, why such a professional (and, in 1972, labor intensive) typing job?


59 posted on 09/08/2004 9:49:54 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: fat city
Worked lots of those IBM Selectrics used as computer terminals. The "golf balls" were $100 each and the "teeth" broke if you installed them improperly. We used to pay $45 to get them fixed.

This hoax could be the new "Hilter Diaries". The media fell for that one too.

60 posted on 09/08/2004 9:49:56 PM PDT by Doctor Raoul (KERRY IS A POODLE: #1 He's French, #2 He's A Rich Woman's Pet, #3 He Won't Protect You)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: rocklobster11

Good catch.


61 posted on 09/08/2004 9:50:07 PM PDT by demlosers (54 days left until the Kerry campaign is put out of its misery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Southack
Good point. Those documents are absolutely forgeries based on the fonts alone.

The flight exams were and are called "Medicals", too... those forged documents used the incorrect term "physical examination."

Right you are! Even in civilian aviation they are called "medicals". Every private pilot carrys evidence of a current "medical".

62 posted on 09/08/2004 9:51:39 PM PDT by teletech (Friends don't let friends vote DemocRAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: demlosers
There must be more so where are they?

Well, they must not have fit CBS' agenda.

And why would Bush be the ONLY one he kept memos on; who else did he do that to?

63 posted on 09/08/2004 9:51:44 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: dila813

If you try and mapquest this, there are no streets in Houston currently with a Longmonth street name. There is a Longmont street though ...


64 posted on 09/08/2004 9:52:22 PM PDT by cohokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Texasforever

He also didn't sign the ""CYA"" memo legibly if at all. How the hell could it cover his ass if nobody knew who wrote the damned thing? This is just more leftist lies and bullshit like the 'boos' crap from AP. Typical liberal desperation.


65 posted on 09/08/2004 9:52:36 PM PDT by Capricam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Buckhead

Wasn't there somebody on the other threads who said that the signature was in the wrong place?

I'll have to go look.


66 posted on 09/08/2004 9:52:53 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Fishtalk
"The Dems are desperate "

Rush said it early on. "This is gonna be fun". Just sit back and relax and enjoy.

67 posted on 09/08/2004 9:53:03 PM PDT by AGreatPer (Go Swifties)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

Hmmmm? In the early 70's, I used to have a piece of equipment at work made by IBM. It was a huge electronic typewriter looking machine, with a magnetic card reader which used magnetic cards to store information. It also used a removable ball of different type styles. I was producing technical literature with this system, and there were fonts for everything.


68 posted on 09/08/2004 9:53:31 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Sen.Miller said, "Bush is a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Texasforever
There are NO distribution lists on any of these memos.

Please be patient with these questions since I have no personal experience to reference.

What should have been the final destination of these documents? Should they have become part of Bush's file? And why the hard-nosed attitude? Hadn't Bush been completing his hours at a better than average pace (I really don't understand what the requirements were but since I read he accumulated enough points to have served 15 years I'm assuming his hours were better than average), and scoring well on tests?

69 posted on 09/08/2004 9:53:47 PM PDT by Dolphy (Support swiftvets.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Fishtalk
"I'd like to see just one lamestream reporter ask one of these Dems why they are making such a big deal about this Bush national guard thing when they gave Clinton a completely free pass. I mean, assuming the worst, that favors were bandied about re admission to the guard, how is that worse than avoided any military service at all? Assuming the word "worse" is even applicable as that war was so badly fought that plenty of young men were doing everything to get out of it. The Dems are desperate and frankly are beginning to get annoying. Yet the media plays along. Dan Rather should be ashamed.

The difference, as you well know, is the focus of their feeding frenzy is a Republican, and Clinton and sKerry are of the correct political persuassion.

I coundn't agree with you more about this being disgraceful behavior that should be beneath any supposedly legitimate, seasoned journalist, but the truth is the MSM is pulling out all the stops to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate and get the Progressive Caste System they so covet installed.

70 posted on 09/08/2004 9:54:06 PM PDT by intolerancewillNOTbetolerated (Misunderestimated Again Bush/Cheney '04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

"In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts."

I hope you are right about this and these are forgeries. However, I am looking at my own military records from that same time frame 1972-1976 that were done with a typewriter. I cannot see an obvious font problem. My documents from then look the same. Back then, I was a military clerk, and the most predominate typewriter was an IBM Selectrix using a ball with the characters on it. These documents look real to me and consistent with my own
from that time.

The copies of copies look is allfully suspicious though. Also, it was common practice to use preprinted letterhead then - these are not? Did Dan Bather explain where these documents were found?

They probably are forgeries, but I don't know that the font arguement will hold up.


71 posted on 09/08/2004 9:54:08 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: rocklobster11
They could do different font sizes (within the limits of the ball size-- which was uniform for all fonts. However on rethinking that old system, I believe the Composer could do proprtional word spacing (for clean margins) but that would be for formal printing only due to the complex coding (at least compared to typing) and no one would use it for "memos" or private notes. We used it for important documents going into print.
72 posted on 09/08/2004 9:54:21 PM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Raoul
Nicely centered too!.

Do you mean on the page?

Because if you do, that is the FIRST thing I noticed when I looked up from the computer to the screen when they started talking about them.

At first glance, they look JUST like any business letter you'd ever see.

73 posted on 09/08/2004 9:55:06 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Raoul
Nicely centered too!....The proportional fonts is a red flag for me, but not for the "journalists" at CBS. Journalism at the major networks is SO embarassing, I rather tell people that I play piano in a whorehouse than admit to being part of "Network News".

You bring up a good point about the centering. And back in the day of typewriters, documents would be riddled with typos and correction marks. Yet there's not even an extra space between words, or any xxxxx over a wrong word, or obvious use of an eraser or correction fluid. Very odd.

74 posted on 09/08/2004 9:56:19 PM PDT by NYCVirago
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago
Another thing the title on the top would have been preprinted. This does not appear to be preprinted. Since it is in a larger font it would have been impossible to type with any typewriter available at the time.

This is a definite forgery. No wonder these records didn't show up when Bush asked for all his records.

Heads should roll on this one and no reporter's informant confidentiality should be allowed.
75 posted on 09/08/2004 9:56:41 PM PDT by ImphClinton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: cohokie
5000 Longmont Dr. .... Try MSN Maps ... I even looked at nearby businesses.

A liquor store, real estate office, and a business to track dead beat dads.
76 posted on 09/08/2004 9:57:23 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Texasforever
That has been my point all night. You do not write these kinds of documents to yourself since they show the author to be derelict in his follow up. There are NO distribution lists on any of these memos.

Exactly. And if these were personal memos, which they appear to be, why would his family hang on to memos from 35 years ago, when he's been dead for 20 years? It just doesn't add up.

77 posted on 09/08/2004 9:57:30 PM PDT by NYCVirago
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: fat city
In the very early 70's, the military's state-of-the-art word processing was done on IBM MTST Composers. They used a monospaced font printing format but used the same "font balls" (about the size of ping-pong balls and had changeable font types) as the IBM selectric typewriters.

A Reserve Unit would be the last to get state of the art anything.

78 posted on 09/08/2004 9:57:46 PM PDT by Terp (Retired living in Philippines were the Mountains meet the Sea in the Land of Smiles)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
They are called typeballs:

But back then, we did NOT call them fonts!

79 posted on 09/08/2004 9:58:54 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: dila813

Did you niotice the post office box was 34567 .... come on that has to be made up ...


80 posted on 09/08/2004 9:59:06 PM PDT by cohokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: dwaynestomp

http://www.etypewriters.com/history.htm


81 posted on 09/08/2004 9:59:37 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
We have one of those in the mail room at our office:)
82 posted on 09/08/2004 10:00:29 PM PDT by Dolphy (Support swiftvets.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

I wonder if anyone involved in this understands the penalties for falisfying government documents, particularly military records.


83 posted on 09/08/2004 10:00:34 PM PDT by lavrenti (Think of who is pithy, yet so attractive to women.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: CyberAnt

Yeah, the MTST System was similar-- only it used magnetic tape (hence, Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter) and was about the size of a console piano. I actually went to IBM school in Mannheim Germany to learn this dinosaur for the army. Your tax dollars at work-- probably obsolete two years later. There's probably a warehouse full of 'em somewhere.


84 posted on 09/08/2004 10:01:09 PM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
Your recollection of the Selectric is correct.

All the various fonts were monospaced, though.

But the Executive proportionally spaced. For example, a "i" received a one-half character space, an "n" got one character space, while an "m" got a character-and-a-half of space.

Each touch of the space bar moved the carriage one-half character.

85 posted on 09/08/2004 10:02:33 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Howlin

The ads for these typewriters are all in mono spaced fonts ...


86 posted on 09/08/2004 10:02:55 PM PDT by cohokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: cohokie

Well, 12345 would have been too obvious, wouldn't it?

Surely someone in the Houston Area can check out that address and see if it is legit. There must be some kind of old city directory in the library that lists the address of that squadron (and should't it be on an Air Base Post Office and not the general Houston PO?).


87 posted on 09/08/2004 10:03:17 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: NYCVirago

No, there used to be executive typewriters that were out in the mid to late 70's, but you had to be an executive secretary to figure them out. They did proportionally space, but they certainly wouldn't have been in standard use because of the expense. Especially by National Guard units.


88 posted on 09/08/2004 10:03:53 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: cohokie

That is on another document. It may not be made up, but it is one strange quirk of luck.

My house address is 12345, so what are the chances?


89 posted on 09/08/2004 10:04:15 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Dolphy
You can kill somebody with this baby:


90 posted on 09/08/2004 10:04:59 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Howlin

See my post number 88. Do you remember these things? Big, bulky and horrendously expensive?


91 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:18 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: fat city

From this web page, http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Typewriter we find the following history of the electric typewriter:
---
Selectric mechanisms were widely incorporated into computer terminals in the 1970s, ... .

Later models of Selectrics ... introduced selectable "pitch" so that the typewriter could be switched among pica ("10 pitch"), elite ("12 pitch"), and sometimes agate ("15 pitch"), even in one document. Even so, all Selectrics were monospaced -- each and every character was the same width. Although IBM had produced a successful typebar-based machine, the IBM Executive, with proportional spacing, no proportionally-spaced Selectric office typewriter was ever introduced. There was, however, a much more expensive proportionally-spaced machine called the Selectric Composer which was considered a typesetting machine rather than a typewriter.


92 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:40 PM PDT by Buckhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Terp

Well guard units funding comes from the states, depending on the unit sometimes they got great brand new stuff or put up with old cast off junk. If this was the so-called 'Champagne" outfit of the TxANG they probaly got pretty good stuff


93 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:44 PM PDT by Wild_Bill_8881
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: cohokie

Explain to me why you're telling me that.........LOL.


94 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:55 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Terp

You got that right. I worked for USAREUR & 7th Army and NATO.


95 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:55 PM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: All
Somehow we need to have these documents checked by someone else in the media. See-BS and the rest of the Media Wing of the Democrat Party are whoring for Kerry so much that they'll do anything, including fake documents, to try and hurt the President.

Who to contact I don't know except for Rush and Hannity. There has to be a way to prove these documents real or fake and if they're fake, to show See-BS for what they really are.

96 posted on 09/08/2004 10:06:18 PM PDT by COEXERJ145 (Hannity Was Right, FReepers Tend To Eat Their Own)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dolphy
What should have been the final destination of these documents? Should they have become part of Bush's file? And why the hard-nosed attitude?

These document purport to show an officer that had disobeyed a "direct order" to take his flight physical. Now, as GW's commanding officer that memo should have been carbon copied to all involved up the chain of command plus GW's own personnel file. We can see that no one was copied, no copies from Bush's pentagon files are include his copy. This "commanding officer" either put his own career and credibility on the line by suppressing the memo OR he didn't write the damn things.

97 posted on 09/08/2004 10:06:56 PM PDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Terp
"A Reserve Unit would be the last to get state of the art anything."

It was as true then as it is today.

I've composed and read thousands of official Air Force memos during the 60's, 70's and 80's. These have the reek of modern-day forgery all over them.

98 posted on 09/08/2004 10:07:50 PM PDT by AF68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
I am pretty sure I can prove the Lt. Col. Jerry Killian memo is a fake.

Looking at one of Bush's annual fitness reports his rating officer noted that "He cleared this base [Ellington AFB] on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187th Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama."

Jerry Killian must had an imaginary Bush discussion. This is why democrats just hate the Bandit.

99 posted on 09/08/2004 10:08:21 PM PDT by The Bandit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rocklobster11
could they do superscript

Some memos have it some don't --- Different typewriters or typists.

100 posted on 09/08/2004 10:10:05 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 651-656 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson