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Bush Guard Documents: Forged
little green footballs ^

Posted on 09/09/2004 10:49:41 AM PDT by Jack_1

I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft’s Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date “18 August 1973,” then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian.

And my Microsoft Word version, typed in 2004, is an exact match for the documents trumpeted by CBS News as “authentic.”

(Excerpt) Read more at littlegreenfootballs.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; forgery; killian
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To: isthisnickcool

WOW, a hearty bump to your post. All this talk today about fonts and forgery and you just brought it on home. They are virtually identical.


151 posted on 09/09/2004 12:16:28 PM PDT by agrace
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To: YanksGiants2000

Here...


152 posted on 09/09/2004 12:16:29 PM PDT by b4its2late (John John Kerry Edwards change positions more often than a Nevada prostitute!!!)
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To: ctdonath2

"Faxing" doesn't alter a signature's style.


153 posted on 09/09/2004 12:17:19 PM PDT by Rebelbase (John Kerry, sign form 180 .)
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To: All

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The PROPORTIONAL SPACING feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html


154 posted on 09/09/2004 12:19:48 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Rebelbase

I was focusing on the typed text. Faxing _does_ induce a randomizing look that at first glance provides an "old" look, even where the original would look absolutely pristine. Whoever is waving these docs as "proof" should be waving & scanning originals, not faxes.


155 posted on 09/09/2004 12:21:38 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Politicalities
Ha! and note Lt. Colonel is punctuated and spelled out, but not in the discharge.

someone is in deep doo-doo

156 posted on 09/09/2004 12:25:45 PM PDT by Jalapeno
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To: InterceptPoint
Can anyone state as a fact that an IBM Selectric (the kind with the ball head) could not type in a proportional font?

You could choose between 10 pitch and 12 pitch balls for the selectric. Both type sizes used fixed spacing, not proportional.

IBM did have related specialty products. See, for example, the IBM Selectric Composer. http://domino.research.ibm.com/tchjr/journalindex.nsf/0b9bc46ed06cbac1852565e6006fe1a0/a5b7541baf9f5cdf85256bfa00683fca?OpenDocument

157 posted on 09/09/2004 12:29:44 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: crv16

Actually the superscripted 'th' IS evidence that it is a typewritten version. Typewriter heads could put a superscripted th above the linespace. Note that Microsoft Word cannot place the 'th' in the linespace area.


158 posted on 09/09/2004 12:29:57 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Rebelbase
But the May 19 1972 memo says: We talked about getting his flight physical situation fixed before his date (which was May 14th?).

"Says he will do it in Alabama IF HE STAYS IN A FLIGHT STATUS"

Note that your memo says ANNUAL FLIGHT PHYSICAL. There is something missing between your memo dated May 4th and May 19th. And then we skip to August of 1972??

159 posted on 09/09/2004 12:30:06 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Kackikat

To me, another convenient thing was that Killian is deceased. "Dead men tell no tales".


160 posted on 09/09/2004 12:34:38 PM PDT by Twinkie
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To: Chummy

- - but, did Killian's machine in the office have the snap-in IBM ball? Did he have a secretary who is still around who will remember? Did his wife ever type any stuff for him at home? If so, is she still around?


161 posted on 09/09/2004 12:37:50 PM PDT by Twinkie
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To: Chummy
A couple of the give-aways are the supersript "th" and the presence of curly apostrophes, and a proportioned font, none of which apparently were on typewriter keyboards of the era.

I learned typing about this time, and have a fairly strong recollection of the IBM Selectrics, Olympia and Smith-Corona machines that were then in use, and cannot recall ever seeing a superscript "th", not sure about the curly apostrophe. The latter may have been available on specially purchased balls for the Selectric.

I think those features including proportional spacing were on the IBM 'Executive' model, but the "Times Roman" font was not.

It could have been typed on an IBM 'Compositor' office typesetting machine of the period, a highly modified 'Mag Card' machine, but why would anyone do that? Even if it were, the kerning would be slightly different.

SO9

162 posted on 09/09/2004 12:40:30 PM PDT by Servant of the 9 (We are the Hegemon. We can do anything we damned well please.)
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To: isthisnickcool

My guess is that the forgery was originally planned to be unveiled just before the election as an "October Surprise."

As such, there wouldn't be time to uncover and refute the forgeries before the election.

But since Kerry is sinking fast, the vast left-wing conspiracy had to do something NOW. Methinks the VLWC didn't anticipate that the power of the internet would expose their forgery so quickly and easily...


163 posted on 09/09/2004 12:42:07 PM PDT by 5by5
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To: Howlin
Wouldn't the original documents be on weathered papaer that could be tested to determine it's actual age? Same for the ink? This riddle should be very easy to solve.

Anyway, the story breaking everywhere now (talk radio, CBS denials, etc.). IMO this story will breag hard, and forgery will be proven.

164 posted on 09/09/2004 12:42:40 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (You have entered a "No Girlie Men" zone. Thank you for not whining and sniveling.)
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To: dwaynestomp
Look, the Whitehouse has said these are real documents. So what is Rather trying to prove? That his operative could read minds?

When will folks see that BUSH WANTED TO BE A PILOT and have some flexibility. His marks say he did a superb job.

He didn't go to Canada. He didn't sit on his hands. He served his country and helped his father.

165 posted on 09/09/2004 12:43:25 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

What story is breaking now?


166 posted on 09/09/2004 12:45:15 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Howlin; All

Anyone got the documents already typed up in a Word file they can e-mail me?


167 posted on 09/09/2004 12:47:19 PM PDT by Smogger
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To: Steven W.
I've been working in the field for over 20 years and currently serve with a text processing company so I am intimately familiar with these technologies.

On another thread someone mentioned an IBM Selectric or Executive model that used "proportional spacing." It was a high end model. Are you familiar with it? I'm a graphic designer and that was news to me. I don't know if it functioned the same way as automatic kerning does today.

Finman69's overlay of the two documents seems to be very damning if not absolutely irrefutable evidence of forgery.

168 posted on 09/09/2004 12:47:28 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: jpp113
IMO, the superscript "th" is the most damning evidence. Typewiters in 1972 would not offer this feaqture, and modern word processing SW often does it automatically (although ou can reverse it when that happens with a ffew keystrokes). I bet the forger didn't catch what his word processor had done, not realizing the mistake deleterious effect on his "work".

BTW, outstanding job FReepers on reporting and analyzing this BLOCKBUSTER news! I want to see 60 Munutes / CBS groveling all weekend.

169 posted on 09/09/2004 12:49:40 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (You have entered a "No Girlie Men" zone. Thank you for not whining and sniveling.)
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To: stainlessbanner
Wow--kudos to LittleGreenFootballs.

I owned an IBM Executive typewriter at the time (I think it was the Model "C" but its been a while) which did have a proportional font, it was purchased specifically create a typeset look. It came in a variety of (non-interchangable) fonts, and did have some superscipt keys. I also rented a low-end photo-typesetter.

The IBM Executive was used by executive secretaries, but in most offices was displaced by the Selectric, which as easier and more efficient to use, and also looked good. The Executive was also used by those who wanted a near typeset look for self-published newsletters, etc. By typing twice you could even create justified columns.

The IBM Selectric typewriter in much more common use never had a proportional type face. The photo-typesetter was the easiest way to get a true typeset look (though it didn't look as good as the old hot-metal technology) but would never have been used to type a memo, it was big, expensive, far more difficult to type on than an ordinary typewriter, and involved special paper and chemicals.

The Executive was the only typewriter that I was aware of, and I was interested in the subject at the time, that was proportional. The typing of the Executive looked good, it had a carbon ribbon, but, comparing side to side, it didn't look like real typesetting; the shape and weight of the lines in the letters, and spacing of the letters were somewhat different than real typesetting, perhaps due to the limits of the typewriter technology, and the need to create an even impression for each letter.

Each key-bar on the Executive could be individually adjusted, the output of my machine was not perfect and the periods cut the paper. If an officer had an Executive in a home office, I doubt it would be kept in perfect alignment. I think that is is impossible that an Executive output could be perfectly duplicated by Microsoft Word. While the CBS image of the memo is crappy (on purpose?) I have to say that the memo just does not have the "look" of IBM Executive type.

A test would be to find the closest matching type-style on the Executive and see if the memos could be duplicated.

170 posted on 09/09/2004 12:55:05 PM PDT by David M. Brooks
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To: WOSG
You have to hang around DU and the leftist blogs more... many are (a) this dumb and (b) willing to do something like this.

Absolutely! Just look at the immature drivel coming from the Kerry campaign. Rush is right, without the OM carrying their water (and covering their mistakes), the rank amateurism of these people is becoming ever more clear.

171 posted on 09/09/2004 12:55:34 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (You have entered a "No Girlie Men" zone. Thank you for not whining and sniveling.)
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To: All

The Kerry Spot has some pretty impressive expert opinions on the docs' Here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp


172 posted on 09/09/2004 12:58:34 PM PDT by MMkennedy
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To: All
The only question now is.....,

What Did Dan Know, And When Did He Know It?


173 posted on 09/09/2004 12:58:37 PM PDT by motzman (to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time.....)
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To: finnman69
Wow. Can they be that stupid? The superscript is the most damning evidence, IMO.

I was editor of the Camp Pendleton SCOUT in the late 70s. Our typewriters couldn't do that.

174 posted on 09/09/2004 12:59:49 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: Sacajaweau

Sorry, I should have said the "Forged Memos" story. I meant that it is on Drudge and the airwaves (talk radio) now. The usual progression is Internet Blogs - Drudge - Talk Radio - OM, right?


175 posted on 09/09/2004 1:00:15 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (You have entered a "No Girlie Men" zone. Thank you for not whining and sniveling.)
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To: Integrityrocks

Let me sum this all up:


(It is alleged that)CBS used FORGED DOCUMENTS in their smear attempt last nite against the president. Even AP is on this story. Dan BLATHER,C(BS) NEWS and of course, J F'n Kerry are GOING DOWN BIG TIME!


176 posted on 09/09/2004 1:01:32 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: crv16
I think some of the difference could be the device that the memos are PRINTED on.

I haven't read to the end yet, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned.

177 posted on 09/09/2004 1:05:18 PM PDT by SirChas (Come children, let us shut up the box and the puppets, for our play is played out.)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

What is further interesting about the superscript "th" is the author uses it in two of the memos, and does not use it in one.

There is no way the superscript "th" was created by swapping IBM balls and painstakingly creating this dipthong; that was done in one keystroke and there just was no such character key on a typewriter in the early 1970s.


178 posted on 09/09/2004 1:59:45 PM PDT by Chummy (RepublicanAttackSquad.biz: "A vote 4 Kerry is a vote for Osama")
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To: ironman; ohioconservative; Rebelbase; MistyCA; finnman69; Diogenesis
For the record, I reposted the graphic after my server burped and the original graphic was destroyed.

AdminMod pulled #69 at my request.

This accurately depicts the similarities:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Link to My Graphic

179 posted on 09/09/2004 2:02:13 PM PDT by IncPen (Every Word From Kerry's Mouth is a Dishonorable Discharge)
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To: IncPen

Link in 179 no worky...

Here's the address

http://img53.exs.cx/img53/5017/CBS.gif


180 posted on 09/09/2004 2:09:45 PM PDT by IncPen (Every Word From Kerry's Mouth is a Dishonorable Discharge)
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To: finnman69
Here's my superimposed version. I saved each document as an inverted tif file and then opened them in NIH ImageJ. I use this program to see if various tagged proteins in a cell colocalize. I take pictures on a confocal microscope of cells with some proteins tagged with a red fluor and other proteins tagged with a green fluor. In ImageJ I use the Align3TP plugin to make sure I've got the registration as closs as possible and then use the RGB Stack Merge plug-in to merge the two photographs. If there are proteins that are interacting, the colors will colocalize, producing a yellow image.

I did the same with the "original" and the Word documents. The main differences were the position of the "th" after the number, later described as the difference between the screen and print fonts, and some creep one way or another across the field that is consistent with the "original" having been photocopied repeatedly and manhandled to give an appearance of age. I think these show too much colocalization for an original typed on a typewriter over 20 years ago and a recent Microsoft Word document.



Thanks to Mr. Thorne for posting the image.
181 posted on 09/09/2004 2:31:04 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: IncPen

Thank you. :)


182 posted on 09/09/2004 2:33:53 PM PDT by MistyCA
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To: agrace

See #181 to see just how identical.


183 posted on 09/09/2004 2:38:10 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

You rock!!!!!!


184 posted on 09/09/2004 2:58:30 PM PDT by Dog
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To: aruanan

Great work. Simply fabulous.


185 posted on 09/09/2004 3:00:51 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: aruanan; lightingguy

Now THAT is simply remarkable. Very impressive!


186 posted on 09/09/2004 3:10:30 PM PDT by agrace
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To: MizSterious
Jim Angle just reported on Fox News that the documents shown on 60 Minutes last night may be fakes. He showed the hypertext th. WhoooHooooooooooooooooo!!!

You FReepers RULE!

187 posted on 09/09/2004 3:14:10 PM PDT by arbee4bush ( I expressed myself forcefully and felt better after I did it-VP Cheney)
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To: Dog; DallasMike
You're welcome. And let's thank the NIH for making ImageJ a freely downloadable program. There are a couple of great plug-in collections. On a PC, the ImageJ folder has to be on the C drive at the top level. It can't be in an applications folder or it won't work properly. And, once it's installed, right click on the desktop icon and change the memory allocation size to about 1/3 of the machine's physical memory (though it could be 1/2--it's been a while since I've done it on a PC), there's another way to do it OSX that's detailed somewhere on the ImageJ site. Also, after downloading Amrit's Collection, unzip them into the ImageJ plug-in folder. When you go to that folder, you'll see another one named plug-ins. Just transfer everything from there into the higher level plug-ins folder. There are many, many cool things that can be done with ImageJ.
188 posted on 09/09/2004 3:16:40 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: agrace

You're welcome. Looks like graduate school in the biosciences came in handy for something, huh?


189 posted on 09/09/2004 3:18:36 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: arbee4bush

Hah! These folks are the best! I was just kibitzing--the real work was done by many others, perhaps especially Howlin, who got this train rollin'! I saw the Jim Angle piece, and he mentioned the fonts and the "th" part of it--nothing about the oddly different signatures and the P.O. box 34567.


190 posted on 09/09/2004 3:20:25 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: MizSterious

Britt Hume and Bryon York are all over it now on FNC


191 posted on 09/09/2004 3:25:20 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: MizSterious

As far as I can tell, the "P.O. box 34567" bit is legit:

http://www.harriscountyhealth.com/pcd/ViolationNotices/1991HCPCDVNs.htm

The above is for some sort of pollution violators roster, circa 1991, after Ellington field had lost it's exclusive military status. There is a listing for Ashland Chemical on Old Galveston Road (aka Hwy 3), which is where Ellington is located.

It may be a P.O. Box that was used at Ellington's zip code during the 1970's.


192 posted on 09/09/2004 3:30:17 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: aruanan
The very slight differences are easily explainable by the fact that what CBS had was a scan of a fax and/or photocopy of the original. Each scan and copy introduces distortions in the image. You see a systematic distortion that increases away from the center of the page. It's most visible on the animated version, which does leave one feeling a bit queasy. Not as queasy as watching Dan Rater or Ketchup Man, of course.
193 posted on 09/09/2004 5:58:53 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Jack_1

bump (for more exposure)


194 posted on 09/09/2004 6:00:05 PM PDT by VOA
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To: aruanan

ping a ling a ding dong


195 posted on 09/09/2004 6:05:10 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: aruanan
The other difference is that pesky "th" after 187. It is higher in the CBS "original" than in the Word version. I experimented with Word myself, and the "th", produced automatically, is not as high as the CBS version. However that was on screen, both in normal and print preview mode. When I actually printed it, on an HP8000DN laser printer, the superscript was as high as the CBS document's version.

You might try your experiment with a printed and scanned in version of the Word created document.

196 posted on 09/09/2004 6:12:31 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: aruanan

That is really brilliant. Very, very creative, very, very persuasive, very, very cool.


197 posted on 09/09/2004 8:01:20 PM PDT by Buckhead
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To: aruanan

That's truly remarkable. I just posted a comment about how the web allows thousands of researchers with thousands of skills to fact-check the MSM. You're work is a shining example of that. Mucho Kudos.


198 posted on 09/09/2004 9:16:19 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: El Gato

See my post #123, this thread.


199 posted on 09/10/2004 4:53:54 AM PDT by jpp113
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To: El Gato; randog; Buckhead
You might try your experiment with a printed and scanned in version of the Word created document.

I just did it with the versions from that blog site mentioned higher in the thread because I could do it rather quickly. Thanks for your comments, guys. These people are so toast. I heard on Don Wade and Roma (WLSAM, Chicago) that these "documents" came from an "unidentified" military source who gave them to the DNC who then gave them to the Kerry campaign and that both took them to CBS. Ha ha ha ha ha. How much you want to bet that the unidentified military source has the initials JFK?
200 posted on 09/10/2004 6:19:15 AM PDT by aruanan
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