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CBS' “new” Bush guard memos a hoax (Update w/ conclusive proof of forgeries!)
ChronicallyBiased - keeping tabs on the Houston Chronicle ^ | 9/9

Posted on 09/09/2004 3:47:33 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist

(scroll down to the bottom of the article for the update section):

UPDATE: NEW PROOF OF FORGERY

Following the Little Green Footballs blog lead, CB decided to test the pantograph replication technique on another of the CBS documents to see if it held true. Using Microsoft Word on its factory default settings with 12 point Times New Roman font we copied the address line of CBS memo #1 and overlapped the two for comparison.

As you can see the test worked and, in doing so, inadvertantly uncovered more proof that the document is a forgery. The new evidence revolves around the fact that Microsoft Word auto-formats its text using the centering function. When the text alignment for “center” is selected each subsequent line will be precisely centered underneath the previous one with each word of the text readjusting to meet this alignment as new letters are entered into the line. Since typewriters mechanically stamp letters onto a sheet of paper one at a time, it is physically impossible to create a mechanical typewriter document that perfectly aligns two or more centered rows of text on top of each other. The address bar on CBS Memo #1 is perfectly centered and perfectly aligned, thus it had to have come from a computer word processor and not a typewriter. The replication experiment in Microsoft Word with an identical match further validates this origin.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; 60minutes; 60minuts; barnes; benbarnes; brownshirtsforkerry; bush; bushmemos; cbsmemos; ccrm; danrather; democratslie; dirtytricks; dncliars; forged; forgeries; forgery; fraud; goebbelswouldbeproud; hoax; hoaxmemos; kerrycampaign; killian; libel; lyingliars; mediabias; nationalguard; ratherbiased; rattricks; seebsnews; slander; smearcampaign; snopes; snopesmia; stephenfhayes; texasnationalguard; thebiglie
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Conclusive the proof that they are forgeries: MECHANICAL TYPEWRITERS DON'T AUTO-CENTER ADDRESS BLOCKS!!!
1 posted on 09/09/2004 3:47:34 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist

This seems like a good point to me.


2 posted on 09/09/2004 3:49:13 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: GOPcapitalist

Brit Hume said that one of his production assistants did the same test with the same results.

The Round Table is going to discuss that right after THIS break.

Poor Mara (evil grin).


3 posted on 09/09/2004 3:49:56 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: Paleo Conservative; rolling_stone; FastCoyote; finnman69; MistyCA; mingusthecat; 06isweak; ...

Ping! Mechanical typewriters don't auto-center address lines at the page header.


4 posted on 09/09/2004 3:50:38 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

60 Minutes should be canned and Dan Rather FIRED immediately. Then SwiftVets get 1 hour for every week until the election.


5 posted on 09/09/2004 3:50:52 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: GOPcapitalist
Ha ha!

Nice Job!

6 posted on 09/09/2004 3:51:27 PM PDT by haywoodwebb (American, Christian, Conservative, Negro . . . A return to the Party of Lincoln)
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To: GOPcapitalist
MECHANICAL TYPEWRITERS DON'T AUTO-CENTER ADDRESS BLOCKS!!!

In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

7 posted on 09/09/2004 3:51:41 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: GOPcapitalist

It must really suck today to be a Democrat.


8 posted on 09/09/2004 3:51:50 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: alnick
Poor Mara (evil grin).

She's not there today.

9 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:03 PM PDT by Bob
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To: GOPcapitalist; Howlin; Bob J; Luis Gonzalez; JohnHuang2
These people have been had. This is so transparent and sloppy as to be laughable...or perhaps designed.

I believe that if they ever can trace this thing back to its roots, we may well find that it all just adds more fuel to the fire regarding the theory that the Clinton's and their operatives are undermining Kerry so Hillary can be in position for 2008.

Ether way...this type of thing is putting forks into Kerry's campaign because he is done.

Just my two cents and opinion.

10 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:11 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

Interesting, though, that the example above does not feature the 'superscript' font that they've been questioning all day(?)


11 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:13 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: GOPcapitalist

Another question is why the "th" in the top isn't superscripted but at the #2 point, it is.


12 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:14 PM PDT by 1L
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To: GOPcapitalist
...it is physically impossible to create a mechanical typewriter document that perfectly aligns two or more centered rows of text on top of each other.

Not physically impossible, just very, very, very, very, very, very, very improbable.

Good catch.

13 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:22 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: GOPcapitalist
Makes a lot of sense. But when I called Dan Rather he just said, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes? I stand by my sources and my story."
14 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:23 PM PDT by VadeRetro (OK, I made up some of that.)
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To: GOPcapitalist

And in other news, DNC commissar Terry McAwful said:

"These fake documents were White House plants.
They hoodwinked the DNC and CBS, taking
advantage of our lust for power and general
gross incompetence on technical stuff.
It's all just so unfair."


15 posted on 09/09/2004 3:52:44 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: GOPcapitalist

I never thought of that, and obviously neither did someone else!


16 posted on 09/09/2004 3:53:18 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: GOPcapitalist

A very good typist could duplicate the centering trick. However, no one would wish to take the time to duplicate the "kerning" which is apparant in the document.


17 posted on 09/09/2004 3:53:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GOPcapitalist

I ran the same test but missed the point that the text was perfectly centered. What are the chances that some guy with an IBM or Royal typewriter in 1972 would line the words up exactly the same way that Bill Gates would in 2004. Not a chance. Not one in a billion.


18 posted on 09/09/2004 3:53:25 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: Jeff Head

Per Britt: Killian's son said the documents are a mix of truth and fiction. Son said his father would not have stored these documents in his personal files. CBS said they stand by the authenticity of the documents, the schlubs.


19 posted on 09/09/2004 3:54:01 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: GOPcapitalist

CNN is, as of this very moment, preaching how these new documents are proof that Bush not only received preferential treatment, but also that he just didn't fulfill his duty.

FoxNews is at the same time questioning the validity of said "documents" using the exact MS Word argument.


20 posted on 09/09/2004 3:54:22 PM PDT by TheBattman (http://www.swiftvets.com/)
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To: Steven W.
On this thread --- HUGH HEWITT REQUESTS THREAD, I beat you by 50 seconds saying that Rather should be forced to resign. I am warning you, don't try to phony it up with an old Remington typewriter to claim you beat me. :)
21 posted on 09/09/2004 3:54:38 PM PDT by doug from upland (Who has yellow cake? I want to weaponize my spitballs.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
Fred Barnes says that the Weekly Standard will have a story up momentarily saying that this is unquestionably a hoax.
22 posted on 09/09/2004 3:55:03 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: alnick

Would you be willing to post a detailed uptake on the discussion on Brit's panel? Thanks. (Gave up our cable a few months back!)


23 posted on 09/09/2004 3:55:06 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: Steven W.

I am willing to bet $50 bucks right now that Blather-boy is going to announce his retirement for "health reasons" or some similar excuse within the next 48 hours.

Any takers?


24 posted on 09/09/2004 3:55:26 PM PDT by Ronin (When the fox gnaws....SMILE!)
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To: randog

Yeah, it's one of those 1 in a billion something chances of a match.

Killian would have had to be sitting there for hours with a drafting ruler and perfect knowledge of the exact width of each and every letter to get them to line up perfectly centered!


25 posted on 09/09/2004 3:55:37 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

Wrong.
There might have been an occasional case when the lines centered perfectly, but it was a function of the number of letters per line. With three lines, this is almost impossible to be mathematically perfect on a typewriter. I know. I used to do that. "Visually" centered, but not mathematically.

26 posted on 09/09/2004 3:56:41 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

Mort trying to say this TANG business no longer matters and shouldn't be brought up, and Birnbaum basically stuck to the point that it does matter if the documents are forgeries.

Mort, Mort, Mort. It matters when it could kill the Republicans, but they want to change the subject when they get caught.


27 posted on 09/09/2004 3:57:39 PM PDT by mabelkitty (Zealous Troll Hunter - and you know who you are - you've been warned.)
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To: Boundless

LOL!!! I was just wondering myself how long it would take before someone got around to mentioning that possibility. I didn't want to raise it myself because I don't want to be accused to giving the CRAPS any ideas.


28 posted on 09/09/2004 3:57:48 PM PDT by Ronin (When the fox gnaws....SMILE!)
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To: Ronin

No takers. Wasn't there something about him campaigning for Kerry part-time, or was someone funning us?


29 posted on 09/09/2004 3:58:00 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
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To: GOPcapitalist

Excellent!


30 posted on 09/09/2004 3:58:11 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: alnick

You just go to the center (you measured it), then backspace once for every two characters or spaces....

But it sure didn't look like the type on the letters in question.

I believe that this is going to be shown to prove to a lot more folks that CBS is on the Kerry payroll (so to speak). I'm hoping that there is a major backlash from this.


31 posted on 09/09/2004 3:58:49 PM PDT by TheBattman (http://www.swiftvets.com/)
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To: randog
Perhaps the Heart of Gold was flying by.
32 posted on 09/09/2004 3:58:51 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: GOPcapitalist

bump


33 posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:06 PM PDT by Stellar Dendrite ( An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill)
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To: Ronin
you could make lots of money, dude.
It's worth $50 just to hope it will happen.
34 posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:21 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either)
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To: GOPcapitalist

Was the document created in MS Word?

Nobody knows.

But if it matches the word-wrap of MS Word exactly, odds are it was done on a machine that used the same paragraphing algorithm as MS does.

Which wouldn't be unusual - nearly all typesetting systems today, and the best typesetting systems for quite some time, have used a variant of Knuth's algorithm.

Which was first published in 1981.

Adobe has used Knuth's algorithm for 15 years, now. Microsoft for I don't know how long.

So it's not at all suprising that a word-processing or type-setting system would layout the text similarly to what MS Word would - if that word-processing or type-setting system had been developed after 1981.

It's close to an impossibility that a word-processing or type-setting system that predated 1981 would do so. Knuth's was the first to consider the layout of the entire paragraph when determining line-breaks. Which is what the typesetters had always done.

But no automated system prior to 1981 did so. Particularly no typewriter, no matter how sophisticated.

And no typist would manually lay out a paragraph while they were typing and break where Knuth's algorithm would break, except by random chance.


35 posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:40 PM PDT by jdege
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To: mabelkitty

They're both right. The NG stuff doesn't matter. Media lies do matter.


36 posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:47 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: The Duke; 1L

Barnes on FNC said something about it being interesting that the doc without the superscript had a space between the number and the "th". Possibly so the word processing program wouldn't automatically create the supercript. Maybe that explains why the differences in the use of the supercript. Boy, it looks to me like someone wanted this to caught.


37 posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:53 PM PDT by mewzilla
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To: GOPcapitalist
I'm grinning ear to ear. Magnificent work FReepers.

Democratic Party, CBS News and Dan Rather CAUGHT RED-HANDED perpetrating a fraud!!

This could have the effect of casting a "chill" over the rats' right to free speech.

Life is sweet when you win...

38 posted on 09/09/2004 4:00:04 PM PDT by telebob
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To: The Duke
That can be turned off/overridden.
39 posted on 09/09/2004 4:00:14 PM PDT by TheBattman (http://www.swiftvets.com/)
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

It is indeed possible to approximate your centering and get something there that is presentable, but since each letter is typed mechanically, it is virtually impossible to get it exactly centered like a word processor does. When you type a letter in a word processor it automatically readjusts every other letter to ensure equadistant variations around a center line. The word processer centers from the middle out in two directions whereas a typewriter centers in one direction from an approximation made going from a point slightly left of the center across the page.

40 posted on 09/09/2004 4:00:37 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: alnick
It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out.

If you had a typist who could do centering using proportional-spaced fonts, I'd like to meet her/him!

41 posted on 09/09/2004 4:00:37 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: alnick
Powerful, powerful stuff.

CBS News just took an H-bomb up the tailpipe.

42 posted on 09/09/2004 4:00:40 PM PDT by JCEccles
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To: Steven W.

Poor Dumbocrats!!!! With "His Lyingness" being in the hospital....they just can't get away with lying anymore.


43 posted on 09/09/2004 4:01:03 PM PDT by Winfield (sham)
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To: alnick
"In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time."

Yes, but you centered by hitting the spacebar repeatedly. This would not permit you to perfectly center the text. For example, assume the text was 1.8" wide. To center it on an 8 1/2"-wide piece of paper with a 2" margin, you'd have to space in 2.25" minus 0.9" = 1.35". If there were 12 spaces to the inch, your two choices would be spacing in 16 spaces (1.33"), or 17 spaces (1.42"). Given three separate lines with three separate widths, this would result in the lines being imperfectly centered.

A laser printer, on the other hand, doesn't have to space in increments of 1/12th of an inch. It aligns the text with 1/300th of an inch precision. We'd have to take a ruler to the text in this example to be sure, but eyeballing it it looks a lot more like 1/300th" precision than 1/12th" precision. The poster has made a great catch here.

44 posted on 09/09/2004 4:01:21 PM PDT by Fabozz
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To: ScottFromSpokane
No Ltc would have written a military rank abbreviation as 1st Lt. The proper military abbreviation I have been told, for the Air Force was lLt.
45 posted on 09/09/2004 4:01:44 PM PDT by YOUGOTIT
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To: GOPcapitalist

How could somebody be so stupid as to even attempt to pass something like this off?


46 posted on 09/09/2004 4:01:45 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

Yes, that was certianly easy to do, IF YOU DON'T USE PURPORTIONAL TYPE!

To do the same with purportional type, you would have to compute the exact spacing for every letter, and space over the exact amount INCLUDING FRACTIONAL "SPACES". Old purportional typewriters could backspace less than one "real" space.

It may not have been possible at all to create this document with a typewriter, IF it proves that not even these sub-spaces will work exactly.

BUSTED!

This is hard-core proof!

47 posted on 09/09/2004 4:03:17 PM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Hello ...

It is hot too difficult to manually center lines using an old proportional typewriter. As a typist, you would know the pica or width value of each letter. A lower-case 'm' for instance, might be worth 5, while a lower-case 't' might be worth 2. As I recall, the widest of all letters on the old IBM Executives was 7 (upper case W). Then it's just a matter of totalling the value of each letter, adding an average of 3 picas between each word, dividing by 2, finding the center point, backspacing the required number of units, and then typing the line. The typist had the freedom to add or subtract units between words (or even units between letters in a word) so as to make an individual line or word come out "right." I have done this exercise hundreds, if not thousands, of times, in my old life as a "repro" typist in the 1970's.

On other thing, the 'backspace' key on these typewriters moved the platen back just 1 unit. I.e., to backspace over an 'm' would take 5 strokes, over a 't' would take 3 strokes.

All of this is just to say that I am becoming convinced the Killian document is a forgery. While it is definitely possible to manually center individual typewritten lines, it seems implausible to me that such lines typed 30+ years ago would somehow exactly duplicate the same exercise of today's word processors.

Sorry to be so long winded.

48 posted on 09/09/2004 4:03:23 PM PDT by RightField (The older you get ... the older "old" is !)
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To: GOPcapitalist; Andrewksu; Jim Robinson; Congressman Billybob

Sometimes I get weary reading some of the trivial tripe that passes for commentary on Free Republic and lament the days gone by when the Giants of Discourse roamed Freeperland. But, on days like this, I am reminded of the true value of Free Republic.

They cannot lie, they cannot hide, they cannot distort and deceive. Why? Because of Freepers like you who come forward and stand tall when the times demand and lay out the truth for all to see.

Thank you, sir. Thank you


49 posted on 09/09/2004 4:03:55 PM PDT by centurion316 (Infantry, Queen of Battle)
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To: Publius6961

Exactly. Remember going to the center and then backspacing to try and get everything centered? And, if you had an odd number of letters it was never perfect! Now I'm showing my age...LOL


50 posted on 09/09/2004 4:04:23 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama (Can The Ban - let the AWB sunset • www.2asisters.org • www.cantheban.net)
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